Sunesis

I think it speaks volumes about TWI, that with all of this discussion and all of our years spent in TWI, very few people who were in/out of TWI can tell anyone else who Jesus Christ was/is.

How sad, we don't know.

What a terrible legacy VPW left us.

For me, its a personal journey. The Bible is a guide post to point the way - it cannot hold all of who Christ is.

We need to look up, not continue to gaze into letters, commas, etc. We need to listen to the comforter that Christ sent into the world, who was not previously abiding in the world, but who now abides within us. The comforter will reveal Christ to us. As Jesus said, now, the truth is within you. We need to listen.

Christ was the first spiritual being to experience humanity. He is cosmic.

To me, that was one of the key moments when I knew TWI was on a downward slide when I heard they were going to begin doing these evaluations.

I was on staff and a friend of mine told me they were going to start doing this. I told her how idiotic this was. She said the standard we were being held to was VP's life, walk and example. I thought, gag me. I asked how could women be held to this standard? I also said, what if someone did lousy on the evaluation, but was a wonderful person with a great "heart." Where's the room for "heart" on this evaluation? (In the WC, "heart" was a great quality - I guess at least up until then!). We ended up arguing about it, she for, me against. At the end she told me she was the one who written it with DM. I should have known... She then said, so, do you think D**a is stupid? I said of course not, just the idea. The idea is assinine. That's when I knew TWI was really becoming a corporation. Any love of God left was slowly being drained away.

So, basically we were judged in these evaluations on how well we compared to VP. Most of the corps didn't know that was the ultimate standard we were to live up to. They weren't told this little piece of info. Because of that, I was never able to take them seriously. The last one I had, I told the leader point blank, well, I can't guarantee I'll be here this time next year, I'm getting to the point where I've had enough. At that point, I was certainly not going to base my life on whether or not I am living up to VP's life, as I didn't particularly like him, and for a woman to be judged by male standards, well, that was rather pointless. In fact, the whole thing was pointless.

I can't remember now what the questions were or what specifically we were evaluated on. Anyone else remember?

I've thought the same thing myself. OM slammed me recently on another thread - totally out of the blue, and brought up something that was discussed, what, 2 years ago? - he's still holding a grudge regarding that discussion, which quite surprised me as I had forgotten all about it - I wondered why he seemed to hate me almost and why his response was so nasty, and quite frankly much more extreme than he's been with other posters.

I have often thought he is a BOD, or some other top hot dog who gets his jollies defending adultry and other TWI odd doctrines.

I too don't think he's who he says he is, and haven't for a while now.

I understand ex. We all have our own timetables. I never quite gave it up, but I certainly don't study for hours on end like I used to. Yet, its funny, God still seems to be able to teach me and show me truths.

As cultures, ages, centuries and times change, I believe the Bible is flexible to be applicable to each day and time. Its like McDonalds, when we were kids, it was a little drive in with two arches. As our generation grew, it grew and adapted, first you could be seated inside and eat, then the arches disappeared, then playgrounds for kids, etc.

In the same way, the church and Christianity cannot remain static and inflexible, as a little drive-in, so to speak. I think many Christians have realized God is so much bigger - as the Gospel writer said, the book cannot contain all that Jesus did. In the same respect, the Bible cannot contain all that God or his Son is. It can give us a hint, or a glimpse. I sense a movement, that God is showing this to people. Its time to move beyond the black and white, Calvinistic, fundamentalism. That man-made religous dogmatism will not work in the coming centuries.

We need to get to the Christ of love and the Spirit of Truth and following it as it inspires the inner man and not the God of war and law of the old testament - of which Christ came to deliver us from.

Yes. Since the Word took the place of the absent Christ, we nitpicked it to death. We became bibliophiles (a term used in theological circles) - those who worship the Bible. We examined the tree endlessly (word studies, numerical significance, greek, hebrew, etc.) and thus were not able to see the forest.

We neglected the truths that, as Christ said "the truth is within you" or as others wrote, you have no need man teach you. We neglected the holy spirit, or comfortor which Christ sent into the world after his resurrection to teach us, guide us and comfort us.

The Bible is a guide. God and Jesus Christ are so much bigger than that, they cannot be contained in the Book. We never realized that. We became bound to the letter - no different than the pharisees or sadducees. The result, as we can clearly see in TWI II and III is bondage.

Many people can spout off scripture and verse, it does not make them spirtual nor give them a relationship with God.

VPW:

1. Affiliated with the Liberty Lobby

2. A subscriber to the Spotlight Magazine

3. A devotee of the Liberty Lobby Hotline

4. Presented to us Bob Richardson, the Populist Party (Liberty Lobby) candidate for President that year to come speak for the afternoon at corps week. Richardson actually did quite well in Iowa and some other states that year. Bringing him to the big top took a little bit of clout somewhere along the line.

5. Carried Liberty Lobby books for all to buy in the bookstore. Even the newsmedia had fun with that one

6. Gave us in the 7th corps our very own copy of Liberty Lobby's "The Secret Constitution" - with an offer for us to subscribe too to the Spotlight

7. Owner of tapes re: Illuminati, Trilateral Commission, etc. that he played at the Advanced Class. These tapes were courtesy the Liberty Lobby

8. Stated publically he had hated blacks for years (because one killed his older brother in a hit and run), until Claudette Royal came along - she was good.

9. Stated Hitler "had the right idea" concerning the jews (by the way, my friend was not the only one he mentioned this to)

10. Taught the murder of 6 million jews was inflated, a myth basically (backed up by books he sold in the bookstore), stated its just the jews have the money to keep this all in the media, or else we'd all have forgotten by now (those pesky jews).

11. Stated the Rothschilds and Jewish Bankers started WWII

12. Started the malpack, head for the hills, the country is going to fall, because of "inside information" courtesy the Liberty Lobby.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck...

No Oldies, I am not full of crap. That was VPs quote, straight from the horses mouth. Get over it.

I discussed this also with R.D. He told me VP had him almost believing all jews were "Zionist pigs." VP, as Danny pointed out, did sell those books, I read them. They were on sale in the bookstore for all to read. By the way, guess who publishes them? Again, the Liberty Lobby press. I forget what name it goes by. there's only one place you can get those particular books.

Whether you agree or not, VP was an admirer of Hitler. Whether you agree or not, VP thought Hitler had the right idea concerning the jews. Whether you agree or not, he was a white supremist. One of his top right hand motorcoach driver aides told me he used the "hotline" quite a bit. So did another staffer close to him. I think Liberty Lobby updated the hotline weekly. Deal with it.

Your insults are not welcome. Think before you speak. Just because you don't agree, or your idol VP is not perfect, doesn't mean you need to insult. Get over it.

It was my best friend to whom VP informed her "Hitler had the right idea" about the jews - i.e., get rid of them. She was stunned.

VP was a white supremist. He was a member of the Liberty Lobby. The Liberty Lobby is a front in Washington D.C. for America's white supremicst, conspiracy groups. He got their newsletter, the Spotlight, and called into their "hotlines."

Where do you think all of VP's inside info on the illuminati, Trilateral Commission, Rothschild banking, Council of Foreign Affairs - all the "secret" conspiracy stuff VP shared at the advanced class came from? Right from the Liberty Lobby.

I still have my "Secret Constitution" he passed out to all of us 7th corps. On the inside of the back page is a form to subscribe to the Spotlight, which is their magazine.

Remember in '76 we saved the country from a crisis? He was listening to the hotline.

Remember he had the "inside" info on the Jim Jones Koolaid suicide - that it was really a CIA plot - that too came from his hotline.

Remember when Bob Richardson, the olympic champion and Wheatie box star came and spent and afternoon and talked to the WC at corps week? Normally if someone well known went to fellowship, we were all made aware. Here comes this famous guy out of the blue to talk. Well, Bob was the Populist Party candidate for US president that year (the Populist Party is the Liberty Lobby's party). Kind of bold having the white supremist candidate come talk to us. He had to have some pull, or financial clout to get Bob out into a cornfield.

Have you ever seen the outline of Hitler's Nazi Youth program - how to train the young master race? I have. The WC was incredibly similar.

VP would have made a wonderful, loyal nazi, had he lived in another place and time.

It was not until after I left TWI and began attending ACOA (Adult Children of Alcoholics) meetings regularly that my eyes were opened to realize what a dysfunctional, co-dependent lot the WC was with VPW as its alcoholic, also dysfunctional, "father figure" at the head.

Some of the stories of WC were amazing - the vast majority of us were a dysfunctional lot - not too many healthy people would have stayed, let alone go into the WC. We were a big, happy, dysfunctional family following the father figure.

Anyone who understands psychology knows, that a nation will follow to the death a leader who reminds them of that country's father figure archtype (Hitler, the stern father, Stalin the Russian jovial, harsh father, etc.).

The leadership in the WC used massive peer pressure and the concept of "commitment" - we were dog soldiers, doulouses, etc., etc. to keep us conformed. It was a very co-dependent relationship.

Although I think the reason TWI began to fail with LCM's ascension, is because LCM was and is not a father figure to anyone.

I knew Harve when he first got in TWI in Maryland and for years after that. I remember him as a wonderful man. He was always naturally kind to me and others. I remember one time I was riding my motorcycle in New Knoxville, there was a problem, he stopped, took me to his house and fixed it.

He was always a caring, giving, warm person who truly did love God. I knew him before TWI II and III.

I know he started getting into looking for "occasions against the Philistines" and whatnot - weirding out a little.

I think anyone who has stayed in that environment has gone off the deep end. It will be very interesting to hear from some of these top hot dogs when they leave TWI and have had a couple of years to reflect and get back to "normal."

Rascal and Vickles - your stories are so heartbreaking. I can only hope God has repaid you the years that the locusts ate (that's one of my favorite verses in the O.T.) Thank you again for sharing your stories.

Rascal, I have to know - did you ever get another horse or a dog?

Ooh Ex - Meow! LOL!

Yup, have to agree with Oldies on this one. Donna, from my observations, was the one with the real power. She was smart enough though, to never take a position that would put her in the spotlight. I think Donna has been the true power for many years.

Donna told me years ago, in the '70s, her desire was to do whatever it took to get to the "top." Looks like she succeeded.

I think TWI is really being run right now by Donna and Rosie. LCM is out.

Yes, my thoughts exactly My 3 Cents. I thought I was the only one who noticed that, but thought I would be polite and not say anything - LOL!

A few years ago I may have picked 4, but I picked 5 because, PFAL was pretty much a word for word version of B.G. Leonard's class, which VPW claimed as his own and had the audacity to copyright.

VP wanted to make money and PFAL was his "product" that would make him rich.

Therefore, I say 5 because the foundation of TWI, the class, was a lie. VP hijacked another man's class and ministry and called it his own. Thus, it was never founded on any personal integrity or truth a spiritual man must have.

Since it was all built on a lie - no wonder it has crumbled at the end. No wonder at the end of his life VPW started repeating, "I wish I were the man I knew to be." I wonder how many regrets he had, maybe God showed him what a wolf he'd been.

Yes, it certainly would be a treat for their viewers! A totally unexpected one at that!

Maybe it would help attract some younger members. Did anyone see a young person in any of those pictures and videos?

Dan - LOL! Looks like its over then, whaddaya think?

Excath - Yes, yes they do need dance lessons. Maybe hire Paula Abdul, John Travolta, or someone of that ilk to come in and give tips and routines. Maybe take a hint from Pink, Brittany, Queen Latifah (for the heavier ladies), or Madonna on how to upgrade their stage wardrobes and stage presence.

I noted one spot where the close up was on D.O. and she was flanked by two singers in a lovely pink. They must hold the record for smiling. The one on the left, the blond, got distracted and her smile slowly, slowly faded. Probably wondering what to have for dinner for the family that night. Someone must have motioned to her to come back to the moment and smile, because she finally woke up and realized she wasn't smiling and slowly put it back on again. Its pretty funny - that would be hard to hold that expression for that long.

I know what she was thinking about, because when my band does a song I don't like, I think about things like, oh, what should I wear to work tomorrow, or I hope I get home without a speeding ticket, what's my cat doing now, did I remember to give him his evening treat? little things like that. You zone out. It was amusing to watch.

Shaz, a "top" leader related an incident when he first found about about VP and his adulterous affairs. This leader had not been involved and was shocked to find out. He had found out from an older believer who did construction in the midwest and had a thriving business. I guess something was going on in his area with VP and someone. First, the man wrote a letter to VP confronting him and got no reply so he told the leader about it. Finally, together, the leader got VP on the phone and this gentleman was able to talk to VP. VP defended his sexual actions and that's when the man, who had been a staunch supporter of TWI and given much money, got disgusted and said that to VP.

OK, I'm back.

Oh my, oh my.

Those green tent dresses are, well, let's just say the wardrobe person should be M&Aed for life.

Yes, when did these people get so overweight? One of the ladies in the green dress I swear was a lady named J.G. She was very skinny when I knew her, now, I really almost didn't recognize her.

Ok, singing ladies of the way - D.O. I still recognized - I bet if someone told her the singing ladies would be looking like someone from Tammy Faye ministries in twenty years future, she would have been appalled. Who are the other ladies? Was one from NYC named T**dy?

Their outfits - took me back to the '80s, early '90s days. Those loose outfits and huge shoulderpads - nope. We need to go modern, sleek, flair slacks, tight skirts - a trip to Lerner's New York or the Limited is in order. Let's move a head to the present decade.

The guitar player is actually a rock player. He needs to really let it out and rock.

Oh, they were all staged. They show the audience clapping beginning and end, but the performance was carefully videoed - not done live.

Cute little two step the ladies do - I got distracted counting the beats and figureing out that move and when to shift from hip to hip when the foot turned.

Well, they try. God bless 'em.

OK, you guys are a riot - I like the variety of gowns, excath - you crack me up. Socks, I'd like more Way Prod. stories. I had no idea Don was involved. I am on my way to check out that site.

My 3 cents - yes, I know you early guys spent lots of time with VP and I sometimes think he slept with every woman from corps 1-5.

But I remember the 2nd and 3rd corps who used to come visit and stay at our house when VP would send them on the field - they were wonderful people. I guess I have a soft spot for the early people I got to know.

You're right, some stayed nice and some changed. I guess it comes down to power corrupts and, in VP's case, absolute power corrupts absolutely. I think most of the WC were way too young to have the status, power, adulation, rev. name tag, spiritual heavy status they acquired at that young an age. VP was their role model and he was a nasty guy when he wasn't wearing his public persona charm image in public.

As one adult once told VP - God gave you some of the finest young men in the world and you turned them into perverts. Kind of sums a lot up.

Shaz, that was an excellent list. One of the best I've read in a long time.

I think, if you were going to climb the ladder of TWI and "go to the top" - you had to become hard, an abuser and a manipulator, or else you would have been run over by someone more ruthless than you.

That said, I think this began once the corps went from 20-40 people to 600. I know many early corps who were wonderful people and were loved.

Its when the corps grew, and there was more competition for the few spaces at "the top," and with all these young men wanting to "prove" themselves, that it got really nasty.

Sad to say my special vibram sole lead boots have disappeared over time :(-->

My Gunnison cowboy boots, I think taken back to Ireland by a corps lady.

No, no more shoes from that time. However, I do have sneakers.

If I come, can I just lie out by the pool? do I have to hike?

That's terrible!! I hope and pray you get your puppy back. Also, go to all the local pet stores (Petco, Petsmart, etc.). They usually have a bulletin board and you can put a poster up. I'd also go to all the local pet shelters and put them there and go to the Humane Society if you have one. Also, put posters up on telephone poles in your neighborhood.

there's also a web site for people with lost and missing animals. It is all over the country and you can alert people in your area to keep an eye out. Many pets have been returned this way. The name escapes me but you should be able to find it by doing a search.

Keep us posted!