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Bishop

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Posts posted by Bishop

  1. I'm starting this topic so that we who are out can give some advice to people who are out or thinking about it as their next step in their new direction.

    Here is my advice:

    What some of us did was join up with an offshoot, which in retrospect is something that I would not recommend. I don't know why you are thinking about leaving or why you have left. This is the reality: every offshoot is dedicated to some aspect of TWI. They may think they are trying to do it better or a bit different, but the foundation for every offshoot is TWI. TWI is a cult. It demands "like-mindedness," which on the surface seems like a great idea, but in reality it is not. Every offshoot is all about like-mindedness like it is the end-all. What this mentality does is delay your entry back into the world. You might think you can straddle the fence, but there will be a time when you will have to make a decision to stay and swallow the blue pill or go. That is the way it is.

    If you move to an offshoot, you will not allow yourself the opportunity to really explore your belief system, and I'm telling you that you need to do that. You need the opportunity to question everything you think you know when it comes to your faith and practice. What I have found out since leaving TWI and the offshoot I was involved with for 16 years after that, is that they were really short on actual research due to the limitations set by their basic assumptions and premises. The methodology is very lightweight, as research methods go. However, you will, even using the basic methodology of reading what's on the page and paying attention to context, come to very different conclusions than what was taught in TWI - if you treat the text honestly. The different conclusions start if you read the gospels as being written to you, and not merely for your learning. There is no reason to believe they weren't written to you other than someone's notion that they weren't. That's the next thing you might consider. God doesn't have a prescribed method for interpreting the Bible. Any methodology at all is based on some person's idea of how it should be done. I believe every methodology is designed to lead you to someone's conclusion, which may or may not be the conclusion that God wants you to have. I believe that if you approach bible study with that in mind, your mind is allowed to accept or reject, and that's ok.

    What I finally ended up doing was making a clean break from the offshoot. I headed back to school where I was forced to take a couple of humanities courses. These courses presented the era of pre and early Christianity very differently than what I thought I knew. That led me to looking at a historian's view of Christianity, which I chose to do with books written by and college level courses taught by Bart Erhman. I started studying philosophy, psychology, critical thinking, reasoning, and religion, including the study of religion along with world religions. I now read from a number of different viewpoints and methodologies. I believe I have benefited from enlarging my resources.

    Now when I go back and read TWI and offshoot writings, it is very clear how each organization is trying to lead people to its conclusion. That is not to say that I have come to believe all of the theology taught by TWI and offshoots is wrong. What I have come to believe is that a big part of it is for no other reason than to create division and arrogance.

    The one thing I noticed when in the offshoot was the initial feeling of freedom and the ability to explore other beliefs in an open and inviting environment, or so I believed. By the time I left, that was no longer possible. I was in a position where I could see the drafts of how the organization expected the local fellowships to function and what it would take to be involved, and I was appalled. I don't know what was actually adopted and what was not, but what I read was frightening. I couldn't support it, and that was while I was still able to appreciate the mindset. Now that no checks and balances exist (at least within that group) I can only imagine what it is like, but I know it was bad enough with the few checks and balances in place, that I could no longer support it.

    Being in the offshoot delayed the inevitable for me. I left TWI for a number of reasons. One of those was the idea that you could be trained to be more spiritual. While in the beginning we were treated as though we were on more of a level playing field, the reality was these leaders liked the basis of TWI, and the only reason many of them were gone was because they were fired. All they want to do is "improve" on TWI, where the underlying presumption that TWI's premises, theology, and practice is sound. This invariably led to the introduction of "classes" and "training" that was touted as "breakthrough training," but was actually nothing more than training designed to break you and fill you with its garbage. When people protested, they took it underground, but it's still alive. This kind of thing is going on in all of the offshoots to some degree.

    The point I'm trying to make is that you can plop yourself into one of the offshoots and feel like you're right at home. That is not a good thing, because the real reason why you left is still alive and thriving in the offshoot. It may not be noticeable right away; after all you've been conditioned to accept many things at face value and so those things become a comfortable friend even as they work against you, but the reason is there.

    Please just think about it.

    Pure genious dude. I feel exactly the same way about most of this.

  2. If I remember correctly it was said that as part of the deal Geer gets 15% of an area's ABS if they run his class. That can be a serious income source. Geer said in his "Epistle To America" in 1989 that he was working on an Advanced class. 20 years later there still isn't a finished class. I wonder when people will realize that with CFF and the other groups that Geer is no longer the only game in town for Way based teachings.

    There are Ministries that are under the fear of losing their license and seem to be more concerned with staying in Geer's good graces than in standing approved before God. Apparently some groups in Ca. lost their license so now everybody's walking on egg shells. Anybody got any more details about that ?

    The two new books that h put out are supposed to be the written form of the first part of his advanced class. Something like "in the steps of patriarchs, kings, and prophets." As best as I could see they emphasis the importance of men of God and being a man of God. I heard they're very well written though.

  3. You are in a Christian organization,and those who run it,tell you are not christian.

    Ya, the important thing to remember with this one is that TWI wouldn't exist if it weren't for the Christian Church. Wierwille was trained in the Christian church. He learned to preach in a Christian College. The works that he taught from came from Christians. Basically TWI only existed because it used the bible to manipulate people. If it weren't for the mainstream Christian church it never would have came into being.

  4. . . . . you're minister explains that he almost stopped to help a person stranded on the side of the road but decided not to because the devil was merely trying to keep him from coming to a bible meeting.

    ...can't or won't or feel uncomfortable when you are in a "normal" conversation with people.

    . . . ah yeah. it's cuz you weren't preaching the word. you gots to bring the conversation back to the word. <_<

  5. Good question

    :)

    the "twig hopper" was a one of a kind production, wasn't it?

    the harley.. and side car.. how many times did the "mrs" really ride in it?

    I think I threw a few bucks in the special collection for that thing..

    I met a believer that bought VP's motorcyle on Ebay. Might be related.

  6. good to see you again..

    :biglaugh:

    what I'm trying to figure out..

    your use of the genitive. "of douche". Is this the genitive of character, a noun in regimen.. "bags of douche".. a noun (douche) being used as an adjective (with emphasis)? Or is it the genitive of origon and efficient cause, the source of which these "bags" have their origin.. or is it the genitive of possession.. the bags in leadership *positions* which contain douche..

    or is it.. genitive of apposition.. "bags" that is to say, or which are, "douche"..

    or is it the genitive of contents.

    :biglaugh:

    Have you checked the collaterals? They might shed some light on what this word means in this context . . . Maybe a literal according to usage or something . . . . :P

    • Upvote 1
  7. Really? I think that Christianity can be reasoned out as a logical worldview that takes a little faith. . . .and which one doesn't? And unless you believe you hold complete knowledge of truth your above quote is quite a statement to make.

    Even atheism takes some faith.

    I would be a fool to base my entire worldview on faith without reason or evidence. . . .or critical thinking. . . . . it would be meaningless. . . . as I would not even understand why I believe as I do. . . . I seem to recall I did that once before. . . .

    Fool me once. . . . .

    Ya, i think that religious belief should go something like this, "From what i've seen and what makes sense, this is probably what's true and i'm sticking to it."

  8. "Cults attract intelligent, idealistic, ambitious people who are led to believe they are working for a greater good."

    --------Jim Bergin

    Here's an interesting clip.

    It's a bit lengthy but worth watching (IMO)

    CULT RECOVERY 101

    Ya, i watched that last night. It's really good.

    I like what he said about being addicted to the cult. I can see that a lot in people that are still in. They have to keep hearing the teachings and researching. So sad.

  9. Spiritually.. I just asked a *dumb* question.. and I got an *answer*..

    what would you do if you found (well.. practically) everything you thought you believed was.. well.. WRONG?

    I've seen others undergo the same phenomena.. some come to the conclusion that there is no God. Myself.. I merely refuse to define Him.. one way or another..

    I don't think I'm an atheist.. I just don't think I'm intelligent enough to figure it out..

    tough stuff.

    • Upvote 1
  10. Dear Bishop,

    My intention is to show that nostalgia for the "old days" does not serve us well. Also, I hoped to point out what many people miss and that is: that the foundation of the TWI/offshoot groups is Fundamentalism. If people don't know that, it sometimes makes it harder to understand the experience. Understanding my experience and creating a new life - not thinking "the old days" were so good when they were built on a faulty foundation which I think Fundamentalism provides - was my intention in this post.

    If you feel your experience was good for you, great. For many others theirs was not. Mine was a mix. Sometimes it helps to know more information that can clear up foggy issues about the past. For me, understanding Fundamentalism was a huge relief...it made it possible for me to explore more of the history of the kind of thinking and the kind of bible study I had been caught up in. That system puts people at a disadavantage by keeping them locked in from considering other valid and wonderful ways of being in the world. These are only a few of my many thoughts on this, so I feel it's best to let this go for now. If you are interested, I would be happy to provide you with some book titles on the subject.

    I wish you the best in your journey. It's yours. Cherish it.

    Peace,

    Penworks

    Thanks for the kind reply! How long have you been out?

    • Upvote 1
  11. Yeah.....a chasm apart from those in the church epistles who hazarded their lives for the gospels' sake.

    Sounds more like a dalai lama type of thing.

    Except.......cgeer brought his handgun to the 1986 November clergy meeting.

    :spy:

    Ya. I don't even KNOW he's alive. He could have sold his ministry and left the country or something. The money would keep coming in . . . .

  12. What I can't understand is why people still throw money of any denominations his way..

    call it a "research project" of sorts..

    suggestions or real world data others have gathered would be welcome here..

    is it because he "rubbed elbows" with herr "holy greatness" or whatever?

    The people in those fellowships need him to believe. The doctrine is propped up by know that men of God did the research. No Chris Geer, No Word.

  13. I disagree. Here's why.

    I understand how some people may think The Way was good “in the old days” and somehow “got off track” in later years. But I take issue with this line of thinking. I call it deluded nostalgia: a wistful or excessively sentimental yearning for return to or of some past period or irrecoverable condition. What exactly is that condition people are craving? I was involved from 1971-1987 and I don’t crave any of it. But I figure I’d pitch in my two cents here.

    Frankly, I think it appears to be nostalgia for small fellowships with rock music or old hymns “corrected to be accurate” with Way doctrine, simple teachings (I guess), and camaraderie with others who thought like we did, and learning “what the Bible says.” On the surface, these things seem fairly harmless. But when I really think about the “old TWI days,” and these activities, I come up with some concerns:

    1. The simplistic idealism that we could save the world with cut and dry Bible answers

    2. The lack of mature dealings in the world. I was addressed as a child and kept from growing up while in the Corps and afterwards,

    3. The gross neglect of my critical thinking faculty

    4. The fact we were supposed to sell the PFAL class to people in order for VP to approve of our lives

    5. The issue of whether we were “helping people” by using tools belonging to VP’s brand of fundamentalism

    6. As far as I know, some still think they helped people with “the Word.” But what exactly is “The Word?” It’s very vague to me. My understanding is that when a phrase is used, there’s a definition for it somewhere. I don’t know of one for “The Word.” It is a phrase thrown around as if we all know what it means. This reminds me of the fairytale about the Emperor’s new clothes. The fact was: Emperor was not wearing any clothes. I don’t think anyone knows what The Word is.

    7. Suffice it to say here, the usual explanation by TWI people and former TWI people for what “The Word” is goes something like this: you have to “use certain keys to research to discover what the original Word was.” Whose keys to research? How come we so readily accepted VP’s which he took from various other people who were fundamentalists? If it were so simple to know “The Word,” how come so many diverse interpretations persist?

    But back to the good old days. Let’s say the “good old Way days” were good after all, although this is hard for me to fathom. What exactly is being referred to by this claim? IMO, VP created some sense of community with some people for awhile, but what was that based upon? The way I see it, it was based on an agreement that VP’s teachings were God’s Word, on the commitment to the common cause of VP’s delusion of “moving The Word over the World,” and on a simple love for other people - as long as they obeyed what VP said was The Word. If they didn’t, at the very least they were not as spiritual as we were; at the very worst they were “born of the seed of the devil.”

    Let’s not forget, however, that this conditional camaraderie came at a price: It was held together by a patriarchal system fraught with deception and power struggles, not to mention rampant sexual, fiscal, and emotional abuse.

    In my view, wishing for “the good old days of The Way” denies the nature of the group itself – a fundamentalist, narrow-minded, anti-Christian movement. Why do I say it is anti-Christian? Because people were used as a means to an end. What was the end? Believe that what VP taught was the truth. Evangelize. Sell PFAL classes. Behave according to what The Way leadership dictated.

    Nostalgia for the old days also seems to deny the fact that from its inception, the cult was engineered by V.P. Wierwille, who claimed, like Paul in the New Testament, that he heard an audible voice from a monotheistic God adopted from another culture from thousands of years ago (or the voice of Jesus, as in Paul’s case) that no one else heard. This raises all sorts of issues too complex to get into here I think.

    While I met many good people whose kindness made me feel loved, during my TWI years, VP’s teachings, such as telling me I was “more than a conqueror” did not help me resolve problems I brought into The Way with me. For awhile, it engendered a positive attitude in me but it did not produce a healthy self image or tolerance, understanding and compassion for others who might not agree with what I believed. I think the doctrines in many instances only instilled a good deal of denial about myself, the good in the world, other cultures, and denial about what it means to be human.

    When I first took PFAL, at 18 years old, I certainly was gullible to The Way’s “answers” but the human brain is not even fully developed until 23 or 24 years old so that’s part of this scenario, too. But I also readily admit that I consciously turned a deaf ear to people who warned me not to get involved.

    Not only did I make grave errors in judgment when getting involved with TWI, but I was seduced by big fat claims about the nature of the system I was in. It claimed to be a biblical research ministry but it is extreme fundamentalism. I suggest more of us get informed not only about how cults function but what fundamentalism is and the history of its development. It’s not only a way of interpreting the bible but a way of existing in the world.

    Dear Penworks,

    You bring up a lot of really insightful and valid points. I do agree with you that there is a better existence for many than the Way and it's offshoots (or fundamentalism in general). I do not agree with you that the TWI/offshoot experience is simply wrong or bad. I think that the best life someone can live is just to be happy, love others, and help man kind. I don't believe that there is one simple right formula in life that produces good. It is not as simple as just finding the truth and then living by it. You see, the truth can be very elusive, and truth can be very depressing. A person can live their whole life believing lies (we all do) or even being part of an evil organization and still be happy, love others, and help mankind.

    In fact, I think every church is based on a hodgepodge of truths, half-truths, and lies. Since being part of something bigger than ourselves is necessary for most people to be happy, i don't think it's as easy as saying that if people left the way they'd be happy. Most people would have been part of some other organization that possessed many bad attributes too. Take the catholic church, for instance. They also require adherence to prescribed dogma. IMHO, the catholic dogma tends to breed guilt and shame. Many people may find more peace and happiness following the catholic church, with its lies, truths, and half-truths than they would in the Way. Other Catholics found more value in TWI and were very glad to leave their church for the Way. Furthermore, I know believers who left a life of crime, hatred, and despair to follow TWI. Sure there could have been better alternatives for these people, but I don't think that we should discount the efforts of those in the Way who helped people find a BETTER life, even though it may not have been the BEST life.

    As for me, I spent my whole life in "the Word". I can't rightly say that I would have been better off without the "Word" and the "Ministry" (whether TWI or the many other fellowships that taught the Word. I can pick out doctrines and practices that I really hated. It's been great to share those frustrations here. I can't renounce my whole experience as bad though, it's shaped my entire experience in life and i've gotten a lot out of going to fellowship. I've grown closer to family members because of our common faith. I've been able to meet a huge range of people at fellowships and I was able to practice compassion and charity to a lot of people. Likewise, I've received unconditional acceptance and love. I can't count how many times believers have helped me move or given me great advice. I've learned to work in small groups while witnessing. I've learned to give speak in public at days in the Word and advances. I've learned to control my thinking in a renewed mind classes (no not WC's). I've learned to overcome fear by facing problems. I've learned to deal with rejection while witnessing.

    So, I'm looking forward to moving on with my life, but I can't say that I would have been better off without my experience as a Way believer. After all, my choice might have been between being a druggie and being a "believer". I wouldn't have been able to make a clean cut with dogmatic nutjobbery if I hadn't been gone through the whole TWI experience. I'm glad to be moving on, but I know that I'm leaving a lot of great memories in the past. The "ministry" is part of my heritage and I'm ok with that. I guess I'm an unbelieving believer now . . . .

    Take Care,

    Isaac

  14. I don't know him but that and other descriptions make him sound a bit disturbed. Holes up on Maine and sends out a newsletter? Copies an old class and puts it out as his own? It doesn't seem to fit the description of a minister. It's almost sad. What else does he have in this life?

    Bishop,

    Have you taken his class or in some way familiar?

    JT

    I never could rationalize taking it since I knew the doctrine and heard the class was very boring. I've had roommates, family members, etc who have though. It's just PFAL except a little more biblical and a lot less exciting.

  15. Is that the guy from Glad magazine?

    He still owes me some $$

    I paid for a multiyear subscription at the ROA in about 86-87 then he stopped publishing it or sending it out or something...Anyway I never got it.

    Even in all the Weirdness of Way World I was pretty miffed at the time that he would take my money and run.

    Interesting at your link that the very first thing I saw was

    Send Me Your Money um "Partner With Us"

    I went to the partner page

    and saw this:

    Exactly the same BS he fed me 23 years ago :biglaugh::biglaugh: just with increased prices and a slightly different product

    Some things never change...

    I was a "partner" before, It basically means we partner in the deal of him taking my money.

    I'll pass this time around

    $50 a year? hmmmm. . . . something doesn't seem right bout that.

  16. Things were best when lcm was in charge, imo.

    His reign didn't require as much thought or awareness to see the nonsense. rfr is a challenge for some.

    Craig was hilarious . . . homo purge . . . that sounds like a sex act . . har har.

    • Upvote 1
  17. Thanks Waysider. Does that mean he doesn't have his own operation? Only licenses his class to others? As an aside, is gun ownership a requirement for taking his class? ;-)

    JT

    Chris just provides the classes and his new advanced class books. Most people who are in those circles haven't seen him at all since the way. Maybe around 2002 our fellowship tried to run one but they required us to start a registered corporation so the checks could be made out to a business checking account. They also have special forms that you have to fill out with a waiver. They give you gold stars in the front of your syllabus every time you do WIGP and you need so many to take their intermediate class. I don't know all the details because we didn't go through the trouble. I heard that for a while the Chicago area couldn't run classes after Rev. Guiarini died because no one was ordained . . . It's clear that he uses the class as a means of keeping all the groups that run it in line. They aren't all the same organization though. Also, the groups that run his classes are into WC's green and black book (which are actually pretty decent if you're into that sort of thing). He's not part of the same group though. In all the WIGP groups there's people who have been kicked out or told they couldn't run a fellowship for some reason or another. There's no shouting or sexual abuse, but they tend to be very persuasive and have a way of keeping everyone on exactly the same page. It doesn't feel like there's anyone in charge when you're in the groups but some how the men of God all agree on everything . . .

    • Upvote 1
  18. I have this friend I knew in high school. Her name is ****** and her’s sisters name is ******. ******, ****** and me are like best friends, forever. ****** is like one of sweetest, kindest people person I ever met. Her sister ****** too, total wonderful person and sweetheart. Both ****** and ****** never met a person they didn’t have a kind word for. ****** in high school played the guitar and had the love of Jesus in her heart. Then one day she ran to some renegade ex TWI people who put her through the Power for Abundant Living Trash. That whole group fell apart too later. ****** was left with nothing for any Abundant Living because of it.

    Wanna know what ****** is doing now? She doing life hard time in prison for killing her husband. I blame myself for a while, because I never visited ****** at all after she married. But I couldn’t, it wouldn’t be normal because she was married and she always was kind my sweetheart. I blame some of you people in this room for what happened to ******. Especially you hard core atheists, you were the hard core people that made The Way International possible. You aint even honest with yourselves. The Draconian King Victor Paul Weirwille wasnt hard to figure out. I had him figured out in about 15 months. I went to one as in the number 1 twig meeting. Cause I pretty knew it was a crock all along. I mean just how stupid do some of you people have to be? The man actually said, SINCERITY IS NO GUARANTEE FOR TRUTH. Like you could actually read the bible and believe that, is beyond rationality. Then parade yourselves around here like rationale people. As far as may own rationality goes, its like with ******, its my worst moment. It’s like the time when I shot myself in my own leg, I didn’t need to be a rocket scientist to know that I had messed up. My dear ****** I messed up more, the day I wasn’t looking out for you. I am so sorry ******, I didn’t know how bad you must have been hurting. It’s like what they did to Monica Lewinsky, past another mans sins on someone like her when the truth is never told. Where does it all end. Sincerity is definitely a guarantee for something which is not this.

    Now, of course, I realize that TWI never did anything to Monica Lewinsky. I simply point her out to show you I understand that people outside TWI could be just as barbaric as former TWI members. I realize that TWI isn’t or wasn’t, the only source of bad tidings in this world. The simple difference being, I really doubt somebody did what they did to Monica Lewinsky, in the name of a bible. Their problem is and was, they are just to good for their own worth. They like a house of cards, a sandcastle, in time.

    I havent even been able to go visit ****** yet, and I just found out about it a short time ago when I ran into ******’s brother. Its taken me just a while to sort through all this stuff about her. Plus, its hard for me thinking about going to see her, I know how tenderhearted she is and I don’t want to break her heart by having her think I think badly about her. I don’t know what to do.

    And here is another reason why your Sincerity is No Guarantee for Truth preaching should a been a big stop sign for anybody who heard it. It’s about Psalm 51. Psalm 51 reads like a contract. With respect to Psalm 51 only, there is contractors and then there is contractors. That contract is with those who want to GET RID of there sin. It’s not for those who want to establish there own sin and carry on in it and do it. Literally, they want to do it. Thus, to some people it is completely void because they have not willingness to do the Get Rid of part. It is about commitment and that is why it reads like a contract. Imbedded in that contract is sincerity, acknowledgment, and general attitude towards. You can go up and down in and side to side, and see Psalm 51 distributed everywhere. The bible talks about your heart and your hearts condition. Which is why talking like “sincerity is no guarantee for truth”, is inexcusable. But Dr. Wierdo, was even more barbaric than that. He had to go get other teachings, which other organizations accepted, to mix them in his hodgepodge bag of tricks in order to make himself look only moderately extreme. He had to tell people enough stuff that no one else could reasonably deny, in order to propound his lies. Pure Savagery.

    I am so sick and tired and broke of hearing about all your crybaby stories about what TWI did to you. Why don’t grow up and act like men, take responsibility for what you did. But you never do that either. You atheists, you run around and blame that on God, like it was his fault for your own deeds. Doctor Wierdo, was always pretty much to the bible, what Osama bin Laden is to peace. He totally butchered it, for his own bread and butter. The truth is, some of you wanted it that way. Some of you wanted it, The Victor Paul Weirwille way. Many of you were told too, by other Christians, that TWI was a hodgepodge cult. Then you act like you never knew that either. Your disgusting, that’s why I blame some of the atheists in this room who were former TWI members for what you did to my ******. You messed up her mind, so nothing ever worked right because of your ABSOLUTE 100 PERCENT INSISTENCE, that somebody like VPW had cookie that even mattered. Then, when it fell apart you parade around like a bunch of victims. You people, some of you, were victimizers. That’s exactly what you were. Have fun then with your atheism, I think you got exactly what you deserved, which is Nothing from God. Look what you did to my ******.

    Wanna know I come around here? I just come around here to babysit some of you once in while to see if any of you have grown up. Pretty much same thing tho, everytime I come. Talking about what crazy man VPW said and did and where he was wrong. Why don’t you just get through your thick head. That the crackpot Doctor was pretty much wrong from the day he opened his mouth. I knew that from day 1. Why? Because somebody told me to look for The Way International. ****** didn’t have that angle. ******’s uncle was renegade big shot TWI guy. He moved it right into ****** house when she was 16 years old. Thanks a lot to some of you former big shot TWI and now crackpot atheists, ****** is doing life behind bars, because people like you messed up her head. Every last one of you should call her up and apologize too her. She rides in a Minnesota state prison for women.

    You should do something nice for me too. I come around here been nice to all you people until I heard what happened to my ******. Why don’t just send me a real Doctor cause I’m sick just for talking about Doctor Wierdo. Send me one of those good looking nurses with buttons on her blouse with a shot demoral in her hand. Then she can put that demoral in me and I wont be so sick from having to talk about the Doctor Wierdo.

    I will tell men exactly why you like TWI and The Doctor was your Captain. You liked your Doctor Wierdo, because he let you do what you want with your Longfellow. You took your Longfellow and did pretty much as pleased. This why the crackpot doctor was so big on renewing your mind. Because you had renew it a lot, because of what you were doing with your Longfellow. I know that the Doctor has been deceased for a long time. But that is what you did way back when, and can’t cut the corner and not say that is what it was too you men.

    But I know how some of you people think. Some of you think, well why should the TWI cult be responsible for what ****** did to her husband? I mean, does somebody have to go get Jim Jones survivors and explain why mind control helped there friends drink cool-aid. True ******’s situation was not just like that. In fact, what Dr. Wierdo and man pals did was conceivably just as bad. Dr. Wierdo took away ******’s understanding of the Bible so she didn’nt have anything to lean on. At the resurrection, I am sure ****** will be heaven. I can’t imagine God Almighty would ever tolerate somebody doing this a second time again, to somebody like ****** or for what somebody did to Monica Lewinsky for that matter. If somebody tried this a second time again after the resurrection to people like ****** and Monica, I think they would all be dead if they even tried.

    I am not even going to respond to posts on this thread. The facts are the facts and there is no getting around what you did with your Longfellow. I am just going to go back into the Political Section and post there. Don’t go getting all bitter about it now. Look on the bright side, at least your not an Initiated Calvinist. Good bye.

    So sorry about your friend. Hope everything works out.

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