Xena

Does anyone else remember that Corps Night when LCM played the Eagles song called "Get Over It?"? It was the topic of his teaching that night. He ripped into everyone and anyone who had any doubts about how he was running things, and he kept repeating that we should all just "get over it". Warren, were you there? I still like Eagles music, but always fast forward through that particular song. -X

Pinklady and all who have shared here ... This thread feels like there was something else that preceeded it. But I think I get the general picture. My heart goes out to you, because I lost a (young adult) daughter to TWI a few years ago, under similar circumstances. They told her that her parents were to be marked and avoided, and she obeyed completely. It felt like she had died. Phone calls were screened and never returned. Packages were sent back. No visits. It was such a heart-breaker, a nightmare. Now ... let me give you a little hope. After writing and re-writing a letter to her, explaining as clearly as I could what had actually occurred, I finally sent it (with a prayer), and she did read it, and she did call us. It took a year of working that letter, before I actually sent it. And two years of hopelessness before that. When she finally called, having been away from us for three years, I couldn't even speak to her without weeping. The reconciliation was not whole or immediate - it has taken a few more years to process the healing, but it is happening at last, and for that we are all grateful. She is still an active Way believer, but our connection now is healthy and open. I just want to tell you, Pink Lady, that your children will someday remember that it is YOU who loved them from the very start, not some monstrous cult, and that they WILL come home to you. God bless you as you wait for that day. -Xena

Retemories? Don't you find it interesting ... that while we were required to recite every single word just as it was written in the King James ... leadership could do something so "creative" as to INVENT the word "retemorie"? It's not in the dictionary. It's just another piece of WaySpeak. And while we're on the topic of memorizing verses, does anyone know a verse that addresses the tendency of some to take advantage of others, and then to take their help for granted? Being the Bible quote expert in my circle of non-Wafer friends, I was asked this recently, and couldn't come up with a verse.

Nope. I'm in Montana, and the Word (Way-style) aint here!

In addition to the monetary and security rip-offs that TWI does to its staff ... what about good ol' JOB SATISFACTION? Try re-polishing the same door knob you have polished daily for the past umpteen years, and see what it does for your sense of self-worth. I know people with masters' degrees who did basically the same work as a Wallmart greeter while on staff for TWI. I don't know where in the Bible it says we must be bored for God.

I remember being called into "Rev" Mosquito's office at Rome City, along with my husband. It was one of those Oh-no-what-have-we-done moments. After much screaming and profanity, Rev M got real quiet and turned his back to us and looked at the floor. Drawing in the sand, no doubt. Then he turned back around and said (to me) ... "God told me you are a self-willed bitch". And then he kicked our whole family out of in-residence Family Corps. Any of you who have experienced being dismissed will realize how hard this situation can be. But the most difficult thing of all, at least for me, was that I believed this man. After all, he was clergy. It took a long time to shake off the darkness of feeling un-loved by God. What a horrible feeling. After pondering his statement - for years - I eventually came around full circle, and began to appreciate my title of "self-willed bitch". I doubt that Rev M actually heard this from God, but even if it was just the man himself who thought this of me, then I'm glad. To be self-willed in that community of droids - well, that's got to be the ultimate victory. Plus it got us out of TWI. And subconciously, that's probably why I chose Xena as my Greasespot name! -X

Yep. He will be reading the book of life and handing out chocolate to all of us who love him. -X

So true, Roy! TWI made up the rules and then tried to explain them with verses from the Word. That was so cool when you said you just ask God to show you the true meaning, and that's good enough. I loved that!!! Now, here's something TWI did all the time and it made me crazy --- If something good happened to them, it was because of their excellent believing. But if something bad happened to them, it was because they were such good people and the devil was attacking them. Made no sense to me at all. Of course if something bad happened to someone who TWI didn't like, then it was because of that person's poor believing. And if something good happened to someone who TWI didn't like, then it was because the adversary was trying to trick all us good guys into behaving like the bad guy (the one TWI didn't like). Talk about insanity! Well, Roy, just keep asking God. And please keep sharing your thoughts. Happy Sunday! -X

OK. You've got two groups of people. Which group would you like to be a part of? The first group: "The Dead in Christ" (Sounds like a horror flick) Spiritually this would mean - aware of Christ, but being a lazy butt Physically this would mean - blood and guts, skeletons, or just dust And the second group: "Those which are alive" Spiritually this would mean - aware of Christ and acting like it Physically this would mean - breathing, eating, dancing, skiing So which group would you prefer? Skeletons are ugly. Skiing is fun. But if you're alive when Christ comes, then you gotta watch the skeletons, etc, "rise first" !! Yuk !! That's not fair !! And for this reason, if it's physical, I'd rather be in the Dead group. (With Jerry Garcia?) Now, if this is instead a spiritual reference, hmmmmm. Well, being a lazy butt is nice on a rainy day, or after a big meal. And being a real Christian, an active Christian (which is an everyday thing), is nice too. So if it's spiritual, I'd prefer to be an active genuine Christian. So I would choose the "Those which are alive" group ... which I think is the group we're supposed to choose, which leads me to believe this section of the Word is to be understood in a spiritual sense. Wacky reasoning? Hey, it works for me! -X

Well, I think we have lost the rest of the crew, which probably means it is time to start a new thread. We talked about circles earlier, coming around to where we left off, the way some rainbows are purple on both sides. So this question is the re-connection, the hook-up with the beginning, completing the circle: In your last post, you listed seven steps. Maybe these correspond to the seven faiths in your first post. But I think I asked a very monochomatic question when I asked you "How"? Because this is what religions are made of -- do this, don't do that. My apologies. Thanks for giving it a try, but I can see that this was a struggle, reaching down from the multichrome to write a recipe. You are about a zillion levels above religion. Stay there. It's a good place! Seeya in the next thread. -X

You're absolutely right about "aging" or being "hurt" by holding back what you know to be true. It's gotta come out, or it will damage you. I know this all too well. And now that I am starting to speak, I'm considered an eccentric by most of my peers. But it feels a lot better than keeping the info inside of me. In fact, by coming forth with ... just a little bit ... just a leak or a wisp of data, I have found that equally eccentric people are coming into my life. Like you, I still hold back the details. And I am certain that my visions are less frequent than yours. But let me tell you this : Many of the healers who have crossed my path have told me that it is the physical area of the Voice (which would be between your head and shoulders, ie the neck area) which suffers the most substantial damage when a person refuses to speak things that must be spoken. Sore throats, strep, spinal issues in the cervical vertebrae, thyroid problems, muscle tension leading to headaches. Of course, if the spinal cord is impeded at the neck, the result is paralysis of all limbs below. Modern medicine does not acknowledge this severe impact of the emotional/intellectual/spiritual upon the physical ... but traditional medicine knows it is true. Holding back can literally paralyze you. So ... bust out of that habit!!! This is not TWI. Greasespot is a safe place. I know my questions have been big ones, but I don't think I'm the only one who's ready to listen. Tell us another story. Expound on the mono / multichrome. We need instructions. -X

Todd, I think you are an apostle. How can you be half my age and twice my intellect? Wow. Humility is what I need now .... OK ... I'm as humble as I will ever be ... Please teach me (and anyone else who's listening) ... How can we overcome our "Denial of how to die to aspects of ourselves during Life"??? Show us how to ride the Rainbow, the whole Spectrum. Give us a map. I know this has been the consistent topic of this entire thread, but not so much the how-to. I'm ready. CM, how 'bout you? Invisible Dan, are you with us? Goey? Roy? Hang on, folks. -X

Oh, I disagree. Geeeeeez, Todd, we agree 99% of the time. Wow. This is strange. I think denying death is one of a zillion droid activities that we have woven into our everyday way of being. When death occurs unexpectedly, we spend so much money on the proper funeral, trying to make things right, because we don't know how to make it right, how to accept it. It is foreign to us, something we are not taught. People don't talk about it, because it's too scarey or too distracting. Consequently, we have no reference point, no model, and we just "cross that bridge when we come to it". We "wing it". And we try to prove to our peers that we're really OK with our relative's demise, when in reality we're downing prescriptions to help us deal with the pain. And when death is expected, we put the dying into hospitals, so we won't be responsible when the final day comes. After all, we tried everything, the meds, the machines, the professionals. We don't want to be around it ourselves. We don't want to glimpse the other side, and if we are sitting there beside our grandfather's death bed, we might feel it or touch it. I can only imagine when WE are the ones who are dying, with no preparation -- it must be very empty. And, like the not-so-invisable Dan said, we insist on maintaining our youth for way too long. To me ... it's all part of clinging to the monochrome. I don't claim to know my way around that edge of life. I know lots about the other edge - Birth - which has also become institutionalized and medicated, but that's another story. These are passages, gates, gaps, miracles, uncharted territories ... which some cultures welcome and celebrate. These are people who ride the rainbow. I want to be like that. -X

It's also monochromatic.

OK. Try out this idea. Imagine there's only one tree - the Tree of Life (symbolically, of course). So we eat of that one. Apple sauce, apple pie, apple butter, taffy apples ....... It's all just livin' Life. Without the Tree of the Knowlege of Good and Evil (which is to say - if good and evil were not defined), would they even exist? Let me try to explain it again. I hang out with Native Americans a lot. Among this particular tribe (and maybe others - I don't know), private property isn't so private. You may wake up some morning, and find that your car is gone. It's inconvenient, but you can be sure it will be sitting in your driveway by the end of the day. Off the rez, this is considered theft. It's "evil". On the rez, it's just another day. From the Tribe's point of view, we non-natives are "evil" when we are not respectful of our elders. We think nothing of our Alzheimers jokes and our impatience with elderly drivers. On the rez, old people are always served first, taken seriously, assisted with opening doors, admired. I'm just saying that "good and evil" are labels within our thinking, which are not as absolute as we think they are, and which, if it were possible to discard, might lead to ............. just livin' Life. I think livin' Life is the MULTI-chromatic view that Todd is talking about. Is this it, Todd? And, everyone else, have you seen Todd's artwork? Talk about multichromatic. And by the way - where are all my sister ex-wayfers? I'm feeling quite out-numbered by eros people here. -X

Huh?

At the risk of seeming "esoteric", I'd like to describe something I've been thinking about lately. It sorta fits with this Monochrome business. You'll love this, Gooey, so I hope you will reconsider bowing out. What if Monochrome-ism was in fact the Original Sin? Think about it. Eve disobeyed when she ate of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. If she (representing humanity as a whole) had not "eaten" (representing digestion, assimilation, acceptance within herself) of the knowledge of good and evil (meaning the categorization of what is nice and what is not nice, or in other words the judgemental and exclusive Monochromatic perspective) ... then the world would be a different place. On the other hand, if Eve (representing humanity as a whole) had only eaten (representing digestion, assimilation, acceptance within herself) from the tree of Life (representing the whole spectrum of possibilities, the 'rainbow" as discussed in this thread, the non-judgemental, all-inclusive, moment-by-moment view), then there would be no law, no sin, no need for Jesus to come to save us from our sin. Well, it makes sense to me. Lots more sense than LCM's Lesbian snake theory !! You see, without the black-and white, cut-and-dried, "knowledge of good and evil", Gooey's buddies from the Church of Christ would not be at odds with the Baptists, and Islam would not be at odds with Christianity, and the vegetarians would not be at odds with Burger King. In Romans, it says "nothing is unclean of itself, but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean". Monochrome-ism is the constant designation of things and people and doctrines as clean or unclean. It's the knowledge of good and evil. Todd is suggesting that we move toward the Tree of Life instead. -X

And your old man story is what I have seen so many times with women in labor. They take the childbirth classes and read the books and watch the birth videos (all good preparation), and then they attempt to implement these techniques when the pangs of birthing begin. And they work so so so hard, and do the very best they can. Women are noble in childbirth. But it is only when they get to the point where the animal-noises come and the outloud prayers and the inevitable words, "I can't do this anymore" --- THAT'S WHEN they give up control and we see a new life. Baby poop and all !!!!!!!!

Beautiful. So ... can Agape ever be inappropriate? Can it be applied wrongly? Can we be fooled into thinking we are doing/living/dreaming/believing/acting out Agape, because it's the right thing to do, when it's not ... or when we're not? And - is Eros smaller than Agape? Does it have to be? X

So ... it's impossible to give love, and keep on giving love, without receiving love back? I thought Agape was unconditional. Or is it just the Eros kind of love that's gotta get something back?

Monocromatic is easier than a rainbow. Monochromatic was probably invented for people who were genuinely unable to comprehend a rainbow. Aw, shoot, nobody comprehends a rainbow. But some foks really need the black and white, straight lines, think-in-a-box sort of faith --- or else they would have no faith at all, no morality, no communication with God. The sad part is that MOST people are probably capable of moving way beyond monochromatic thinking ... but they don't ... because it's easier to just stay mainstream. Here's a piece of the last chapter of Job, as written in the Message Bible. Sir Guess - does this relate to what you're teaching us? "Job answered God: I'm convinced: You can do anything and everything. Nothing and no one can upset your plans. You asked, 'Who is this muddying the water, ignorantly confusing the issue, second-guessing my purposes?' I admit it. I was the one. I babbled on about things far beyond me, made small talk about wonders way over my head. You told me, 'Listen, and let me do the talking. Let me ask the questions. You give the answers.' I admit I once lived by rumors of you; now I have it all firsthand - from my own eyes and ears! I'm sorry - forgive me. I'll never do that again, I promise! I'll never again live on crusts of hearsay, crumbs of rumor." -Xena (PS Dan, You're not really invisible. Your light is too bright.)

Ever notice how a rainbow sometimes repeats a color? It's often Purple on both sides. I spend much of my time with Native American folks, and have come to really appreciate their way of viewing things. Their thinking is not linear, but more circular. In reading your Seven Faiths (which is wonderful, by the way) I would propose that you connect Faith #7 back up with Faith #1. And I think the connection would be some state of Purity or Innocence - which would not really be another "Faith", but rather a state of being, which could serve both as a starting point and an arrival point. The spectrum then would be seen as a circle. As a midwife, I have been blessed to see people in that Purity state, before they move into Faith #1. In our culture, not many of us make the journey all the way back around to Purity. But some do. Is Faith a means to an end? Hmmmmmm. Well, personally I think it just goes round and round.

Safari, A lot of folks got sick after (or during) major confrontations from Way leadership. I'm a nurse, and I can tell you that more and more I see how physical illness is connected with emotional balance. In TWI, there were many of us who had this constant battle within ourselves - we KNEW the things they told us were very very wrong, but at the same time we WANTED TO BELIEVE it and obey. That sort of conflict puts a terrible stress on the physical body. And then, if you got sick, they used your illness as PROOF that you were out of fellowship ... which led to more internal conflict, and so on and so on. I hope your friend eventually sorted through all the lies, and resumed her good and normal self. Some people never could do that, and ended up with chronic health problems. Some died. Was it devil spirits? Hmmmm. Well, if so, they came in the form of Way leadership. -X

Sorry for the de-rail of this thread. Now, back to the original topic - Regarding Leviathan - If you read Job 41, the description of Leviathan offers some real parallels to the life of an alcoholic or addict. There are also some parts of the description that require considerable stretching to make them relate to these dependency illnesses. I doubt that VPW discovered this possible explanation for Leviathan all by himself. Nor do I think that ANYBODY really understands it. And that's the problem with trying to explain spiritual things in concrete terms. TWI acted like they knew everything. Flip back to Job 38:2. God is talking. He says, "Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?" I'll tell you who --- the Way International !!!!! -Xena

That sort of confusing information ... it just makes ya crazy !!! If you think you're right, then you're probaby possessed by the spirit of error. But TWI made sure that we all thought that we were the only ones with the truth, that everyone else was messed up. So the result is that we always thought we were right ... Right? So we were possessed, right? Looking back, yeh, I think we WERE possessed ... but we were possessed by the Way International !!! And all this is much like that other twisted logic, where sometimes we were told that good things were happening to believers ... because believers were such good people. But other times we were told that bad things were happening to believers ... because believers were such good people (so the Adversary was attacking us). Huh? And then, there was that incredible teaching where we all learned that if we THOUGHT we were possessed, we weren't possessed, because when you're possessed, you don't know it. Now, isn't it reasonable then to walk around thinking you're possessed as a way to assure yourself that you're not? Here's a verse for ya --- God has not given us the Spirit of fear, but of power, and of love, and of A SOUND MIND. It's that "Sound Mind" part that was sooooo hard to come by in the Way. -Xena