Bramble

The whole 'Confronting the world with the word' type of witnessing didn't draw in the noobs, either.

There just weren't scads of people looking to perfect their lives, who would respond with thankfulness to our sharp eyes for seeing any type of imperfection!

People don't really give a $h!+ if absolute strangers take them to task about the lifestyle they are living. In fact, they think the stranger is a bizarre idiot busy body.

And what's sad, at one time the TWI folk may have had actual social skills--but they traded them in for the "Present truth."

I think it is kind of amusing that they purged out this group, that group, every weakness they could find group, then one day the limb coords or other corps woke up to find they didn't have enough fellowships in the area to be called a limb/branch/poobah. ABS was way down. OOPS. Then it was "Whoa, be nice, be kind. I'm gonna lose my JOB!"

And funny how God didn't reward the perfect pure household with scads of new believers to join them in the Household of the Prevaling Word.

Since the internet was so full of devil spirits it was probably uncool to be know as some kind of computer geek--but I don't know that for sure because I hardly knew anyone with a computer while I was in TWI.

I understand what rascal is saying, too.

I married in TWI--to one of the wows that got me in the class. Had three kids in TWI. Sure we had good times. But the bulk of those I had good TWI times with did not remain friends for long, just friends in passing. Most moved on away from TWI long before we did. People came and went.

Others who I was very close to when my kids were little marked and avoided our family as required when we left TWI...the minister who married us, who we so admired, morphed into an LCM enforcer. We saw our fellowship coord's personality change over the years and not for the better, to a harsh, arrogant man who used others like pawns on a chess board--but at one time he was a buddy of my hubby's-- they had 'good time' in the seventies. Believers we knew and enjoyed left, got M&A or put on probabtion, relationships ended abruptly. Friendships ceased to have any type of stability.

In the nineties people quit taking pictures of events etc--you just had to purge them later when people got M&A etc.

So good times, sure. I still know my family members in my wedding video. We had personal family events that are precious. But our cherished memories are the family times, not the TWI events we were part of. Lots of tainted memories. Do I really want to dredge up 'good times' of the ROA '94, and all those people who are not in our lives at all now, some who now depise us?

Twi was like an illness.Things started out all healthy but it was all downhill after that.

Sometime in the mid nineties LCM wanted us to witness to people with cars, jobs and all their teeth. Our fellowship did lots of door to door in upscale neighborhoods for an entire summer. We didn't get one person to come to fellowship.

I don't remember an exact year though. All those mid nineties years all just blur together, hectic times trying to juggle family needs and fellowship demands ( you couldn't really say no.)

My little kids were always paired up with men in the fellowship for door to door--to "soften them" because they were cute.

We live across the street from a small church, and even they have to make nice with the neighbors about parking. People who park in front of their homes get really irritated when a church person gets in their parking spot forcing them to park up the block. The church sends its ushers outdoors on busy holiday Sundays and directs traffic to the empty gradeschool parking lot. Its further away but keeps the neighbors happy. Their consideration for the neighborhood is appreciated.

Most Wiccans and Pagans I know meet in the home around here, though big group events might be on state forest land, which has plenty of rules for proper use that must be followed. Crap is sure to follow any problems w/a pagan or Wiccan group meeting and pagans and Wiccans are aware.

Cognitive dissonance? Holding the "truth" in your thinking, but in the background you're thinking, "Huh? How does that make any kind of sense?" But you donacknowledge or examine that background thought. until you come to GSC!

This is kind of embarrasing, but hubby and I didn't go out on a date night for probably six years while our kids were young in TWI. There were only a couple people we would even consider asking to babysit our kids during those years, during an emergency, and those all had young kids, too, and like us were always under scrutiny for our disobedient children.

We never discussed it--but what a red flag. All the people you know, see weekly--and you would never consider having your children alone with them!

I used a wooden spoon, but my kids were never beaten. Still, the standard was perfection, and when we had kids in gradeschool, perfection was a real issue. I had a kid who would get a stomach ache if their math paper wasn't perfect. The perfect or nothing standard took a long time to get over.

We quit using the spoon before we left TWI, and used the school bedtime excuse to keep them away from fellowship most of our last year in TWI. We just didn't have the stomach for having our kids involved by that time.

Funny how we knew something was desparately wrong but weren't sure just what that was.

A partner God so to speak... inside....

So is it separate from us or is us,

and we only taste a part of what is in us,

and with us.

Yes, think so. In our humanity we only experience, understand the part of what is in us. The Bible verse about seeing through a dark glass always made sense to me.

Supreme being...that is more a Christian concept I think, the omnipotent God, all powerful almighty...

I tend to see/experience more of a 'wise elder, loving kin' type god, more of a partner god than authoritarian.

Another part of diety--our part. Are we part or separate?

In my viewpoint we are part...we are children of the goddess, all connected in my beliefs, not depraved sinners separated by sin etc. But then in my beliefs the world is not fallen, nor is man, no savior was sent. Troubled man, yes, but not without hope of growth and health.

In my view point, the further we separate ourselves or others from the supreme being /God/diety then the less we value ourselves and others, the worse we become as a people.

cman, you bring to mind an often heated topic of discussion in pagan/Wiccan forums. Soft polytheisim, all god/goddesses are manifestation or aspects of one supreme being/creator. The facet analogy--the supreme being seen through a crystal prism, each facet different yet part of the whole.

Why all doctrines are both true and false. All part, none the complete.

In my experience LCM functioned on whims he called "revelation". I really don't believe there was any "formal thought" or plan behind any of the purges, with the one exception of eliminating a large portion of way corps right after they declared 'full time' status for all... they very quickly realized they were in too deep and started cleaning house wherever they could. But all the rest of the purges: I genuinely think these were completely the result of Craig's paranoia after the fallout of POP.

He was so egotistical that he thought 'everyone' was backing him as prez, and when the truth hit him in the face he felt terribly betrayed. I don't think he ever got over it. After that, the attitude was "root 'em out before they can cause real problems within the household'.

That's how I see it, too. LCM was not a rational man, he worked by 'revelation'--whatever wild hair tickled him was straight from Gawg Almighty. He wanted the outward appearance of prosperity(abundance=money in TWI). He wanted good looks. Perfection was important, but it was outward perfection--any underlying crap didn't matter as long as it was hidden. Those people were valuable for marketing. The old, troubled or poor folk had no place in the one true household.

As far as background checks etc...for rank and file, would they have access to fingerprints and social security numbers? Jobs that require background checks require those.

Ninties: For a mini mog wannabe, finding fault was godly--it showed how very sharp they were. To be the first to hop on a person with fault--illness, marital problems, money problems--whatever--gave you mog points with your higher uppers. it made your underlings and peers cautious around you--power.

Bullies were rewarded. Weakness was anything they could ferrit out, and it was with the blessings of the heirachy. Weakness brings down strength.

All those people who were kicked out or fled were somebodies coup.

Have a great summer. I will miss reading about your post-TWI journey but think your life will only get better.

My elderberries have purple foliage, very pretty and lacy.

We were told by a local gardening group that we couldn't grow asapargus here, but I grew up in Montana and remember that it grew everywhere, and the climate where I grew up in Eastern Montana is very harsh with really frigid winters. My parents would send us collecting up and down the county road we lived on, but to leave every 10th one to go to seed.

Ours is in the fourth year but we harvested some last year.

We got plants and seeds in the ground finally. We have to keep a sharp eye on the weather because we can have hard frosts or even snow into the first week of June. We have tarps and rocks ready for cover, and I have straw around many of my little bedding plants

My columbine is getting ready to bloom, we ate our first side dish of asparagus, the black lace elderberries look good and I'm trying those Moulan Rouge sunflowers AGAIN. Maybe this year will be the year.

I find the garden to be relaxing and try to spend some time there every evening. After years of garden chores, my teens are starting to appreciate it. Time!

I had an internet stalker years ago, it was not fun. I stay anonymous except for facebook, where my family hangs out, and a couple of closed groups that are not open to the general public. The name Bramble is just for GSC, I use a different net name on other large boards I go to.

There are a few people on GSC that I knew in RL, and they know me, we are not close, and they don't really post anymore.

For me, there are too many red flags at this site for me to be really comfortable revealing real life names etc.

There are people here I truly enjoy reading and I think of them with friendly vibes, though I don't know them personally. Because of how they have acted and treated me and others I have warm and fuzzy thoughts for them, though that is not really friendship!

In TWI friendship was almost an instant thing--one conversation at the ROA and we were 'friends'...but outside TWI real friendships don't happen that quickly or simply.

I'm so so glad we are not part of the Cleanliness IS Godliness insanity now. I do like to have a functional house--you can find a clean spoon when you want one, or you can walk to the kitchen at night without tripping on anything(well, except the cats). I like colors to blend, not clash. But i am glad I don't have some impersonal motel lobby type living room. Mine is full of books, magazines,plants, knicknacks, pictures, cats--TWI would never accept it as decent!

Sheesh, if the laundry is piled up it is likely because there has been NO Time due to extra activities on the schedule etc, not due to spiritual disease!

TWI didn't care about individuality, except in the context of one of their bland teachings on the one body--the gist of which usually went 'So if you are the toilet cleaner of TWI, embrace it!'

Is authenic self a religious term? I haven't read those books, I guess. For ex twi, I would think authentic self is the individual's personality, talents, choices etc when not forcing themselves into a TWI acceptable mode.

How many people can relate to the phraze 'put on their twig face'? That facade of perfection, I'm doing everything right face.

After we left and started to get reaquainted with family I was astonished by how much expertise some had in things like gardening, painting(art, not rooms) music, photography etc, things that took both time and money to learn to do well. Time and money being two things that were Hubby and i had little of while in TWI. Over the years they pursued interests. Hubby and I have both done this since leaving TWI and have found much contenetment in 'hobbies.'

It was a one-way street. The people who were supposedly teaching you to live like the first centur church, to walk like Jesus walked, were more than happy to encourage you to loan, give whatever you had. But somehow or other if YOU had a need, "Well! And where is YOUR believing?"

WG

This we saw over and over. It took us many years to realized the respect and care we held for others--why we did so many of the time consuming things we did, thinking in our pure and stupid hearts that we were serving some greater good...only to learn we were not thought of in the same regard at all, that our value was in what we could provide in goods or services.

My hubby was a good mechanic, he spent years repairing cars for free for the believers, many weekends. We had a truck, guess how many believers we moved( and many we had to help pack)? How many children I babysat for free. And how no one helped us move, no one helped us when I had babies--not even a frozen pizza!--I had 8 weeks of bedrest during one pregnancy--One of my non TWI neighbors actually came by to help with the house etc.

My husband's health was always an issue of "believing"( a diabetic who did not received a miraculous healing as he outght.)

We thought we were part of a family or community, but the reality was not even close. Our good actions did not make it so--we poured our lives into a toxic sewer.

I suspect we were missed after we left--not us, our 'souls' or anything like that, but the hours of work we put in around the branch, how very handy we were, just a phone call away. That's probably why we were slapped with M&A so quickly. How dare we take such rescources away from the Prevailing household.

What I wonder--Could any of the Waygb be using their knowledge of illegal shennanigans to blackmail the BOD! Seems like The BOD might be vulnerable to a double crosser. Hmmm

Plus it would make a great movie.

twi never defined "soul", at least it didn't make any sense. One must conclude it doesn't really exist.

I can understand a former self, if you came to twi. Otherwise, twi is yourself, and that's what must be suppressed.

Really? An individual cannot distinguish himself from the TWI he was raised in? All his thoughts, beliefs, actions emotions etc are lock step with TWI?

The best they can hope for is to suppress their twi nature? No healing, no growth, no understanding, no escape?

Interesting.

Is that what you are doing, Bolshevik? Suppressing?

Kimberly, I've been thinking about adding both irises and daffodils(I have a few of each). We are redoing our back yard into beds, so I might just make one for iris and daffodils this fall.

I love living near mountains. Probably my favorite place to be is in an alpine meadow in early summer when all the wild flowers are in bloom.

I have pink tulips, white hyacinth and grape hyacinth up right now, but I have had crocus and those little dark blue cluster flowers(don't know what they are called)since March. We are in the Rockies, our last frost date is June 6. Normally we can plant earlier than that but we have to keep an eye on the weather. We start seedlings in March, especially peppers and tomatoes, and put them out when they are quite large.

Hubby had a job offer in so Colorado, on the west slope where they can grow peaches etc. It is tempting!

I have bulbs up and some perineal herbs, but it is still too early to plant here. We had 8 inches of snow last weekend. We do have lots of starter plants in pots and I usually get a ton of bedding plants on mother's day--but we have to cover them at night. Some of our raised beds have pvc tube arches which are handy for a quick cover up.