Bramble

I hesitated to answer this, since the originator wanted Christain stories, but I've felt like hanging around this place for awhile, still processing my waydaze, I guess. So I'll spill.

I chose not to have a church home a couple years ago.

When I left the way, I got involved--within months--with an off shoot.In this particular group my family seemed to be seen as a resource to be mined, immediately, like our second 'twig.' Our house for 'twigs', our muscle for various believers who were moving etc, all very instant, could we do a teaching? And think about a children's fellowship? Before we had time to get to know anyone, or adjust. We were generic believers, plug us into the machine! It was wierd and hectic. We left, with somewhat bad feelings on the both sides, I might add.

So I did nothing for a long time. Watched some TV preachers, read library books. . .Eventually I started dropping in on a few churches, and sent the kids to a youth group one evening a week, one that several of their friends went too.

Oldest only went twice, didn't like their put down of Harry Potter. The other two got super involved.

About three months later I started hearing lots of ugly stuff from them.Accusations--"You're not a Christian!" type stuff. A neighborhood kid they quit playing with because he didn't believe in God--this was a nice kid they'd had hours of uncomplicated play fun with.

It was chilling. DH and I remembered all the family crap we caused for our parents, pretty much dumping our earthly families for years to 'Move the Word.'

I took them out, put them in sports. I figured I'd find a fun but less 'exclusive' youth group.

DH by this time had become agnostic, and wanted nothing to do with church or fellowships. Our ex way contacts weren't really friends, some of them were dealing with very serious issues, and people we knew who left around the POP time were really into PFAL doctrine, still, and still looking for God's now true ministry.

As for me, my interest in the Bible just evaporated, over time, til the interest ceased to exist at all.

I did give church one more try, in a liberal mainstream church, though by this time I'd found the goddess movement via the net and books, which I found had great meaning for me. In my teens I had been a little involved in witchcraft, but back then resources and other people were very hard to find. Not so now, the small town I lived in had 3 new age stores, the internet is filled with info. . .

I wasn't ready to step away from Christianity, though. I was always a good girl, y'know? So, church.

The church was nice, friendly. It did believe in Hell, and my kids who had been so religious did hear about it from their elderly Sunday school teacher,arg, and I knew they were bothered by all that. But for me, I was just acting a part. I realized I believed very little.

I was asked to head up a teen group. On the one hand, I could teach what I liked. On the other hand, I knew I had no business teaching a catachism class, since I didn't believe many of the tenents of the faith. I thought about it for a week, then excused myself.Soon after, my job required me to work weekends for several months, and church became a thing of the past.

I have some involvement with the local pagan community, but only as much as I desire, attend an open circle or seminar put on by a Wicca group now and then...The seminars are free, except for books, if they require one, and I am never pressured to join anything or get more involved, since wiccans think the seeker needs to be the one to ask. Met a couple of ladies I consider friends( though not real close friends) that I meet for coffee now and then. For me, this is not a group or family activity, it is private and personal, and enriches my life.

I have no desire--nor do I believe in--being an 'ambassador' for my faith, or witnessing the greatness that is my beliefs to persuade others to join me. I have no problem, though, explaining what might be a more realistic view on wiccan/witch/pagan issues, as I know it(I'm no expert). I find the amount of ignorance a little shocking, and amusing, too. In fact I believe, like many pagans, that to try to sway someone to you own path can actually keep them from finding their true path, and that is doing harm.

So, this is where I am for now, don't know what the future will be. I can't analize it and say why I'm here, and not there. It's just the way it is!

I'm glad I'm out, too! What a life.

You're right about TWI causing chaos. Life has been more peaceful in day to day living since we left. In fact, the first week after I left I felt like I could breathe again. No more in your face confrontations about anything!!

In fact, haven't been in an ugly confrontation situation since then.

And all that money we forked over for ABS, classes, tapes and magazines,goes on our family now. We have savings that is not already sent on classes or weekends. We were seriously broke most of our TWI years, once the kids arrived.

We still have the kids--and they are lots more expensive now! But it's not an issue.

That was a huge stress area, now gone.

My tall hubby keeps all his extra hot spices on top of the fridge. I wonder what THAT means!!

Hahahaha. I can relate to that secret torment though,wbit70s.

I know what I would do--rush for a sheet of blank paper, a marker, and doodle all the naughtiest things I could think of, just because I could!

Okay, i think I have issues.

LCM taught that cleanliness was godliness. They didn't just inspect how clean, but also the type of stuff you decorated with. I knew a lady who loved to collect little knicky knacky stuff, took delight in it. Leadership said they had to go--dust catchers, ya know.

I think she enjoyed dusting them. but that didn't matter.

Hi Imbus,

I'm not ready to post a book about my life on the My Story thread, but I will respond here.

I'm one of those who remained in the Way long after I would have liked to leave, because my spouse wanted to stay in.(There's kind of a discussion about that on another thread.) Those three years were the most difficult of my life.

I wasn't aware of all the LCM crap going on, or about the VPW stuff, either. I just knew how miserably we(especially me!)were treated by our local leadership. I could do nothing well enough to please that man, neither could my kids(my fault, of course,) but my husband was treated well. The HFC was sly, getting in his nastiest digs when DH wasn't around.

The Way was our life. DH was one of the wows who got me in the Word, our marriage was highly encouraged by our then leadership, I knew he was good guy and would be a great husband, father, and twig coordinator--which he was. Then a lay off, hospital bills etc. Bad time--haven't had one that bad since. We were counseled to sell our house, cease being TC and move to the Big City--the limb. We did it.

Finances were actually worse--our rent was higher than our mortgage had been. I took a night job, so we didn't have to pay daycare. Of course, I didn't work on Fellowship nights!

I remember being constantly exhausted during that time. We all had lots of colds etc, and DH's health continued to deteriorate.

I made about $150 more per month than we gave in ABS. To save money, I still cooked from scratch, no fast food for us on Fellowship nights. How unnecessary all those hard times were.

I did let DH know I wanted to leave, but he thought there was nowhere else to go. Because of the ugly hits-job lay offs, health stuff, huge medical bills, we needed to be in the protection of the Household, he thought.

Our area had NO innie/outie marriages. They all ended up getting divorced,with one spouse m&a'd, and the custody battles over the kids were ugly.

Leaving would do more harm to my children than staying, I thought. Didn't want to go through that. And DH was a good man--and there was always the possibility that I was wrong about the leadership, that I was really the problem. I thought DH would eventually figure it out.

So we stayed.

Eventually, the leadership that troubled me began to harass my husband also, lots of intrusions into our lives and finances, ugly confrontations, escalating issues. . . we had finally got to the top of the To Do list, I guess.

We left, refused to go to the final confrontation, got m&a'd.

Life is so much better now! Finances are healthy--I buy new! clothes, and new! books,own a house, I work part time and am not exhausted, Dh's health has improved so much, plus he takes the time to work out 5x a week.

Still have trouble making friends--have just a couple that I really consider friends. Neither of us can join a group, not even PTO. Always feel like people want a piece of us, I guess.

For me, I think the decision to stay in and wait it out was the best I could do in those circumstances. I know how hard that is, and my heart goes out to the innies who are living through that now. Marriage and family are a huge responsibility, not one to throw away, and you can't always have things your way, imho. No easy answer to those situations, you do the best you can.

Hi, i'm mostly a lurker. Lurked around the Waydale and EZ board site, but recently felt a little more like posting.

Anyway, Bramble. Gotta protect the flower. Mind picture for boundaries, ptotection, that sort of stuff.

What she said!

Imbus said 'As far as the spars and in house fighting that is a part of the human experiance.I persoally hate conflict and to read the on going fuedes reminded me of the one- upmanship that was pevilant at twi among leadership or leadership want-to-bes.'

That's kinda how I see it too, Imbus. How'd they get out of that mess still so convinced that their opinion/belief/thought should be held by everyone else? A way Leadership characteristic-- Minions, bow before my greatness! (IMO)

I admit, I'm not one to wax nostalgic over my years in the Way. I don't have those warm fuzzy memories--I still have nightmares. Don't really care to hear about all the wonderful times. Cuz there's always that big ugly boot about to drop.

Galen--yes, a branch I was in during the nineties had home inspections and budget inspections. Arg.

Heehee Socks--leaders didn't call after 11 pm in my area. Whee we could relax!

Gosh, compying on the schedules etc. We did it. Cuz we were in God's One True Ministry, and you can't get blessed anywhere else in the entire world. And obeying your spiritual overseers in the Word kept you safe from that Eeevil Adversary, who was just looking for a crack in your wall...

Look at Job, look at how small his crack was, how huge his loss...

If you didn't obey, you weren't meek, you needed to be confronted. Three confrontations on a single issue, and you were gone in my area. LOA. Probation, or M&A

The leaders I had in my last 6 or 7 years in were not loving. They were not friends. I was valuable to them if I complied and made them look good to their upper leadership. I was worthless if I caused any trouble, especially if a branch or Limb co ord. knew of a failing.

As far as my experience, it was ALL about control--making sure you were scheduling intimate spouse time, making sure your house was clean(how about those inspections? fun, huh)

It still gags me, the stuff I allowed, trying to be 'God's Best.'

Nineteen years--from college to middle age. Wow. And my husband was in about seven years longer.

Never went corps, thankfully.Did the rest, probably twice.

Nineteen years of hectic hoop jumping, trying to raise kids who weren't total robots, trying to pay all the bills and keep up with all the expectations, not murder innie spouse(out now!)

Life is so much better now. Except I'm older but not as wise as I wish I was...and I spend a small fortune on hair dye due to all the grey.

There is a thought that menstrual/fertility cycles coincide with the full moon and dark moon. Sleeping under the light of the moon is supposed to help regulate a woman's cycle to ovulating at the full moon, menses at the dark. Haven't tried it myself.(Don't really care!)

Love the full moon, though, being of that nakee dancing persuasion.

Hi Cool Waters. I think there are still teen groups like that, kids who have had alot of upheaval in life...

I have an outdoor flower and herb garden, it's lovely. Mostly culinary herbs, or tea herbs. I confess I collect little resin and cement statues to tuck around plants. Fairies, suns and moons, birds...not for spiritual reasons, they are just so cute.

I don't dress witchy. I like red! Lots of red shirts. One is kinda gauzey/witchy. Oh, one gauzy black one with red flowers.

The college girl wicca group here dresses pretty obvious--lots of black and witch jewelry. Wicca things on their cars, etc. But college is a whole other world.

The people I know the best tend to be t shirt blue jean type of ladies. Most have regular jobs etc. Nearly everyone I know is 'in the closet.' I met them hanging around the local metaphysical store, which is owned and run by a wiccan elder/priestess. Has classes. For free! No other witchy hang out here. A coffee shop would be so nice!

So. am I off topic? Will I get a slap down from a moderator?

Oops, didn't mean to be rude.

Love a cup, Rafael.

I got tested.

How evil are you?

Rafael 1969:

Nope, not interested in gaining approval--wouldn't have registered here except for the threads about witchcraft.

I'm not someone who thrives on confrontation-- it makes me anxious-- and I'm not comfortable in an enviromnment where others seem to have something invested in me conforming to their beliefs. I lost myself once, won't go on that road again.

I approve of your religious choice (assuming here you're not an ax murdering wacko). You freely chose your path? It brings you close to your God? Brings joy and meaning to your life? Your seeking days are over? That's lovely.

I don't believe in One True Religion for everyone--believe there are different paths for different people.

Wordwolf:

Loophole found! Sometimes growth is accompanied by pain. Maybe you could get alot of growth going!

Rafael 1969

I think the slap method should be which ever is the most painful.

As far as adaptions to idoliary, hmmm. Not really a pagan/wiccan concept, there.

Maybe what you want is a non harmful but effective banishing spell??

Wiccan joke:

Someone wants a love spell. This is the spell you give to them:

Light white candle.

Slap face three times.

Chant : "I resolve to abandon trouble and strife. I will now go out and get a life."

Repeat action and chant until candle has melted down.

Manipulating another's free will is considered to be doing harm by Wiccans.

Delurking to give an opinion about the Way and witchcraft. (I'm exway but have been involved in Wicca/goddess stuff for a while.)I am no expert, just my opinion.

There are two things that I find a little similar to some wiccan practices.

When in the Way I used to focus on a mental image while speaking in tongues. Wiccans do that, too, with meditations and spells(kind of the point of doing a spell is to focus energy on a certain desired result.)

I don't belong to a coven(joining any group gives me the heebee jeebees, wonder why?) but I have been to some of the big holiday rituals on invite. They do a part of the ritual called Drawing down the Moon, in which the priestess speaks for the Goddess. It seems to me to be exactly like word of prophecy. Words of exhortation and comfort. I've only ever been to the one coven, so don't have broad experience.

Other than that--don't see much similarities. I don't know personally of any who do destruction spells, and people who act like the movie 'The Craft' would not have much respect with the folk I know. Most would choose not to because of their belief in the Law of returns, or the three fold law(what you out out for good or evil returns to you three fold.)

Black candles are popular in banishing spells--banish negativity, or financial woes, or excess weight. But if you harm some one,consequences.

Back to Lurkville.