Bramble

We lived out in the boonies, and we weren't corps. We heard lots of conflicting things, some outrageous things(we heard about VPW's girls but thought that was a firey dart...)

We called friends in other areas, some much worse than ours. We heard about leaders stealing the ABS for themselves instead of sending it to HQ.

We were shocked and confused. So when some non flashy corps stuck with TWI in our area, we did, too.

It seemed like clearly the right choice at the time.

I did fly lady with my kids this summer--they were home all day while I worked pt time. It worked great.

I like Sarah M, too. Maybe she'll do a concert in a drivable distance someday.

She and the hubby have a child, too. She gave an interview about how being a mom made her so happy she couldn't write anything decent. No angst.

Seems like most of what TWI pointed out as devil spirit possession was really mental illness. Or disagreeing/disobeying leadership...Oh, and fat people, arthritic people, welfare/disability people, people in the arts...People Not Like Us.

dmiller--I never take my troubles to the GSC prayer forum--I know that many Christians think nothing of tacking on stuff like--"and help her find her way back to Christainity"-- type stuff, which I feel is manipulative. I have another place to go to for support/healing etc. Since there are so few non Christians on GSC, I must say I'm surprised to hear they hang out in the prayer forum with requests.

WaferNot--I had my last at 38, and I did not feel too old. The pregnancy etc was healthy, no difficulties. We even considered trying again, but decided no due to finances. Wishing you the best!

57--that's alot different than early forties. I had a set of twins, and I can't imagine wanting a set now. They were adorable but high demand.

Funny--I had surgery about a month ago, and they freaked me out--I had to do a pregnancy test!

Of course, I had no help and no money when my kids were small(I was in TWI!) She can probably afford a housekeeper, a night nanny, laundry service etc. And for all we know she might have lots of family support--all those things do make a difference.

I don't find it at all difficult to forgive those I love--my family. Usually I can understand their mindset when a spat or other incident happened, and I get passed it quickly.

Those that I don't love, those that did me dirt back in my waydaze--some I can forgive, because I know the type of pressure they were under. I know how it is to compromise under pressure, I did plenty of that in my 20 yrs in TWi.

But those that had power over lives and hurt people--and enjoyed other's pain--those folk I have no respect for, no desire for reconcilliation, no interset in forgiving.

I have no conflict over this, nor do feel that I would be a better person if I forgave them. My life is not consumed in bitterness. But then I'm not Bible based either.

My Dead Hippy, Goth chick and Vampire are going to a costume party at the roller rink, followed by tricker treating. And we are so excited.

I practice forgiveness in my marriage and family life and receive forgiveness there, also.

In the work place, I also try to forgive, though I do not trust folk who take advantage of me, and will speak up.

As far as the Way, LCM, past leadership--I see no reason to forgive them, since I am not desiring any type of relationship with them, nor are any of them seeking my forgiveness or friendship. My trust or any enjoyment in a realtionship with some from my past is gone.

If some were to approach me and want forgiveness I might or might not give it. It takes alot of work to rebuild trust once lost, and forgiveness will not wash away the past. I would more like to encourage them to make the changes they would need so they could forgive themselves.

I was a wow in Peoria in the mid 80s. Stayed there for a couple years.

JJ--I took PFAL at the Armstrongs Way Home in '80, thew way home with the pool.

Married one of those wows that were there that year.

"I just want to help you" creeps me out.

It was always followed by some humiliating trash, followed by demands and standards set so you were sure to fail.

Don't know if it was ministry wide or just a local nasty thing.

Belle--the telephoine call would have freaked me out, too.

'Then again, I don't think anyone could have stomached a whole album of his work - it would have been like listening to just Alvin Chipmonk for 45 minutes - no thanks!'

Years ago, before TWI, Mike Martin was a rockin' lead singer in a hot local band. I don't remember the whole nasal thing back then. But then, he wasn't singing ballads, either. Or what ever you call that way stuff.

But, like everything else in TWI, it seems, he was pushed into a mold that didn't showcase his true talents.

Another one of those spiral-downwards-into-crap deals so characteristic of the TWI I knew.

"Plan the Adversary out of your day" was popular during the late ninties when we did the daily/hourly/weekly schedules.

If you were to make an unscheduled run to the grocery store--how slothful!-- you might get in a car accident or something, you know.

Plus we were to plan everything "two by two," so you and hubby would go shopping together, or you could plan it with another believer a week ahead of time.

Sheesh.

OM Quote:

...people feeling like they were deceived, suckered, and cheated?

So, if people are deceived, suckered and cheated they should just shut up about it, cuz it wasn't really real, just a 'feeling'?

Is that what you mean?

In TWI we were expected to never hold negative thoughts or anger about the ministry. They were never wrong, so just renew your mind to the greatness blah de blah.

There is nothing wrong with being angry about how we were treated in TWI. It helps people make necessary changes.

Sheep....I lived on a sheep ranch in Montana for a couple years. Sheep require alot of help to survive on the range--special fences so they don't get on the high way, dogs and other spunky animals to keep coyoties away, special care in ice and rain, cuz they get stuck...But they are cute when they are clean ( and those cute 4H sheep--took hours to clean. But they are nice and docile through most of it.)

The rancher's kids had a pet goat. No one ever worried about Billy, he wandered all over the place, and if something tried to get him, he would jump up on the roof of the vehicles, leaving annoying dents--but he didn't get eaten.

So the greatness of sheep and the evils of goats kind of eludes me as a spiritual truth. But I can see why ancient Bible folk would have admired them, as a source of wealth.

And clothing a naked woman with WOOL? Please! I had to wear wool jumpers to catholic school. Even over tights and shirts and undies it was itchy!! Shudder.

But then, I'm a cat person, too.

When I left TWI it was many months before Craig's confession happened. I knew NOTHING about the sex stuff at HQ, or about VPW. My life in TWI was miserable, but I stuck with it for years because my husband was totally into it, and I didn't want the divorce/custody wars I saw happen to others that left in our area.

When I left, my insincts told me that what TWI was doing was wrong, but the teaching, Bible verses etc I had learned for years told me I was wrong, weak, slothfull, hardhearted, etc etc. Half the time I was sure that I was the biggest spiritual screw up around, but then the other half I was thinking, hmmm, this can't be right.

When I left I believed all the doctrine I was taught in PFAL. As time went on, I believed less and less of it was correct, as I searched churches, websites, blah de blah...

So as far as throwing the baby out with the bath water--in some kind of spoiled child tantrum--didn't happen. I just scrubbed and scrubbed at all the spots, and found myself with nothing there that resembled any kind of baby.

Heehee--- on their CONTACT link they have snail mail???

NOT email??? Ooo, evil email, shudder shudder.

How Bizarre!

Only at the Way.

Danny,most school districts have dictrict administration offices full of people who can give you district policies, grievance procedures and the names/meeting times of your local elected school board.Maybe even their phone numbers.

These people are not untouchable.

The Catholic church in our area has a school deal--if you donate 10% of your income to the church, all of your kids can attend Catholic school on that.Which is a great deal if you have six kids in catholic school. But I think it is only for church memebers.

The independant Christian school here does have a scholarship program,and I know they pay thier teachers peanuts(less than I make, even.)

We have considered homeschool, and it is always an option. It has some clear advantages.

We live in an area where the public schools are good. My kids do very well in school, and have had some great experiences and opportunities.

We have had some things come up over the years, and I am not shy about calling the teacher or the principal, and I have seen things worked out to my satifaction.

For instance, a few years ago, we had problems with a bully and our school has a no tolerance policy, but it wasn't getting better. The problem--the teachers were not on the playground, they have aides who do playground duty, and the aides weren't noticing/reporting things like they should. Once that got figured out, the problem child quit being a problem.

I have yet to have a teacher that was incompetent or uncaring, nor are my kids coming home with bizarro values learned at school. Most of the bizarro stuff they pick up comes from their friends, and that gives dad and I a good reason to teach them something.

So I have no compelling reason to homeschool at this time, but I like to keep my options open.

We live in an area where the schools are good, which was one of the reasons we moved here.

The teachers my kids have this year are very good--one we had a couple years ago.

I almost always have college aged teacher's aids in my preschool. Most have been very good, some have been lazy.

It helps to have very clear guidelines on what you expect them to do and what is not allowed(lots of college kids want to read while the kids are playing outside. Sorry, you have to watch them, or even interact!)

The biggest problem I have isn't really laziness though, but playing favorites. While it is great for an aid to bond with a child, it really hurts all the kids if they have a favorite(and usually the favorite is a cute little girl with nice clothes,) who gets special priviledges and attention.

All the kids want attention, all of the kids want a special job. So I have to watch for that.

I learned that crafty people can use the Bible to convince good hearted people to be 'tools,' and if the 'tool' balks or protests their use, verses proving the authoritarian stance can be shown, with all indignation and sincerity. 'This is what the Word says...'

It was very enlightening, and costly.

We left because we were sick to death of being under the thumb of a crazy man(no, not LCM, but a HFC who wanted to be him.)

We were constantly under scrutiny, being 'tattled' on to higher leadership, and the HFC had it in for me, while constantly giving hubby the good dog treatment.

It was a confusing, ugly and stress filled few years, where I wanted to leave, but hubby didn't.

Finally we were once again involved in a drama over our 'weaknesses,' and had enough.

The sense of freedom we felt was worth the M&A.

Another big difference between TWI teachers and secular teachers--the latter type doesn't get personally offended and enraged if their students don't 'get' it. Instead they try giving it more time, or another method of instruction etc.

andreatheflorist--sent you a pt about my kids. :D-->