Bramble

I didn't have the statue, but we did have the trustee print in a nice frame. Still have the frame. Also hed those yearly theme posters in cheap frames. Now I have western wilderness pictures on my living room walls.

Sad. Seems the new boss is the same as the old boss.

Must obey authoritay!

How can we know when we are bound so tight into this physical body and world? At best we can glimpse the next world, perhaps there are some, mystics or saints, who understand more than average people.

I think those things that are important in this world are important in the next--loved ones, family, community, peace, love, understanding...

As far as I'm concerned, the TWI doctrine on 'bitterness' goes hand in hand with the 'just get over it' view on forgiveness.

In TWI if some leader did you evil and you were upset about it and didn't get over it right away as if it never happened, then YOU were more out to lunch than the one who did the evil.

Very convenient doctrine for abusers. Gives them all the breaks and puts all the hard work and change on the victim. Your emotions are inconvenient to the movement of the Word, get over it, God wants you to.

I say, remember what they did and don't tell them it is all okay, which is what they want--all okay and they haven't changed a bit.

The problem I see with looking for outward expressions of faith is that humans can fake very well. They can even fool themselves and refuse to examine what is really with in(like in TWI unrenewed mind stop thought action). They can auto pilot and they can mimic.

I think it takes time to really see what motivates another, because what they might say motivates them might not actually be so--and not even that they are deliberately lying, but because they are unaware. It takes time to really know.

You might want to consider a "chicken tractor".

http://home.centuryt...n/tractors.html

Love it.

I always wanted a pygmy goat but there are city ordinances against them.

Faith and proof are individually decided within a person, not validated or invalidated by others. An 'inner knowing.' People know what they know. That is why it is so hard to force others to believe a certain way, some 'know' something else deep within.

We can decide they lie or are faking, or choose to join them in their beliefs because we think they are right, or accept that they have a different inner reality than we ourselves do.

You are the one who decides if the track record proves anything to you. Or if you want to walk that path and see where it takes you.

Mmmm, fried green tomatoes with parmesan cheese!

I was at the local pool with my brother and sister and my best friend Meri Lou. One of our mom's would pick us up right before dinner. The pool sold sno cones or we could walk across the street from the park to a little store to get a snack. There was a group of kids from our school who went there most days so there were always kids to talk to, and we spent many hours diving for pennies. I had a crush on a red haired boy and Meri had a crush on a life guard with really blue eyes. It was much fun!

I remember back when I took PFAL and went to my first ROA how astounding it was that I (I!)should have happened to have found a group with the greatest man of God since the apostle Paul bringing all the new light. How special and life changing, how important to take a stand etc. It was a big part of why I got so invested in TWI.

TY gc. It has been a very strange summer! At least the farmer's market has live music.

We have had numerous hail storms this summer, unusually stormy here but our house is up a yard or so from the street so at least we didn't flood like nmany neighbors. The garden really took a hit. :( We had a pvc arch over the peppers and tomatoes so could cover them easily enough, but nothing else seems to have made it through the quarter size hail except the herbs and perrinneals like rhubarb and horseradish. The siberiean motherwort and sage didn't even notice the hail.

Waa! Off to the farmer's market.

We moved to a city we had never been to while in TWI. We do see way bumper stickers once in a while, but I don't know if they are current or really old. Since we moved here in 2001 we haven't seen any old Wafers we knew, though we have had a few letters and phone calls.

We didn't know about the corruption and didn't find out about it until LCM resigned--we got a second hand computer then and found Waydale. It was shocking to us, because we thought we were the ones in the wrong, not spritual enough, not disciplined enough. We left because there was no way we could meet the standards we were held to and life was a misery trying to attain only to fail over and over. Of course, failing required reproof, and reporting our misdeeds up the chain of commannd. That was horribly embarassing

Ugh. I SO do not miss "the ministry." I'm SO glad my kids weren't subjected to that crap.

We never deserved to be treated like that!

Dear Eagle 709. Sometimes people just need to talk. Sometimes it's hard to find people who understand what it was like. Each person is at a different place. There is not one quote or phrase that is a cure all. I think you have to really know someone before prescribing that they "get over it".

I do know someone I wish I could say that to. She was hurt by the way. They never should have treated her the way they did. But she does get annoying because it's been almost ten years and I am sick of hearing about it. I'm also sick of hearing her blame her parents, her siblings, coworkers, spouse, me etc... for her life being miserable.

She has worn me down because nothing has changed or become even a little better. She even once said that her kids would be permanently traumatized because of her life experiences. She's planning on upseting them with things that happened before they were born and don't have anything to do with. But she's like that. She enjoys feeling sorry for herself and likes holding grudges. But the reason I know this is because I have spent a lot of time with her. But I still haven't told her to just "get over It." Although I'm dangerously close.

Point being, sometimes someone does need to be told to "get over it". But i would be very careful about who you say it to. What if they still need some time to talk and sort things out and you scare them off, thus making their recovery take that much longer?

Perhaps your friend is not getting over it because there are issues that require more than time to heal. Perhaps she needs counseling, or is depressed and could find medical help or a combination. Outside of TWI, there is no shame in seeking such help or suggesting it to a loved one.

In TWI think, bitterness is a super spiritual emotion that renders everything a person knows, remembers, records, feels, experienced, studied etc inaccurate and spiritually suspect.

Being bitter is alot like being possessed. Heavily influenced, at least.

In fact, if a TWI leader did you great wrongs, and you are bitter, you then are actually more wrong and out of fellowship than the person who did you evil.Yup.

It makes me sad that other stlll live and raise their kids in the mog worship, arrogant, isolationist beliefs of VPW/TWI, where bully characteristics are mistaken for boldness, and obedience to the mog is mistaken for spiritual depth.

We had hail two night in a row, couldn't get everything covered so lots of the garden took a beating. All the herbs took it well, but tomatoes and peppers got hit. Hopefully they will recover!

My brother planted a huge garden with all types of potaoes--we'll have potatoes for the winter--blue, red gold etc!

Let me guess! Let me guess!

Do they want you to be reconciled to the House Hold of TWI??

Is there an 'OR ELSE' involved--bet there is. Lookey lookey, someone died and you could too!

I think we will live longer without all the stress from TWI.

this is good stuff to think about! rumrunner that was funny funny! something my therapist has posed to me is to quit revolting against my way experiences and begin to learn what good I can from them so that i can spend my energy helpfully on myself instead of destructively against myself because i'm beginning to have some health issues directly related to anxiety and tension and it's gotten worse since i started looking so closely at my way experiences. did that happen to anybody else?

Being out of TWI has been very liberating for me. I've had opportunities to do things, think things, read things etc that I could never have done in the confines of TWI. I've made friends TWI would deem as 'possessed' who I enjoy, I'm invollved in some volunteer work(imagine trying to get TWI approval for a Cat rescue group!) Things I (I!) feel good about and enjoy. I get to choose, not the TWI leadership.

When I do think about stuff that happened, it is usually confined to the time it takes to write a post here on GSC, then I go on with my life. I try to focus on what I need to do for myself, my family, my job etc and life is pretty busy with just those things. i have some interests that are pretty absorbing, plus having teenagers keeps life hopping.

In mythology bees were sacred to earth and grain goddeses. There is a myth where three bee priesteses were given to Hermes. Honey meade was connected to divination. Google Melissae.

Like Ham, I deliberately quit speaking in tongues at one point. Heck, my life for years in TWI was crap and I spoke in tomgues all the time. How did it help?

Didn't notice any difference in life, except I was no longer so inside my own head making myslf SIT to build myself up etc. But it did take awhile, because for so many years I spoke in tongues at any negative thought or incident.

Life is alot less anxious on a day to day basis now. And no one comes to my home unless it's for business, or unless I invite them as a friend.

We found we did't need the TWi type authority figure in our business so we wouldn't screw up. How bizarre that lifestyle is. We've made good decisions, bad decisions and no, we don't have any super prediction power about the future, so we do the best we can with what we know in the here and now. None of that 'if you'll commit to this action, you'll reap the benefit, God will bless you' stuff motivates us now.

The last ROA('95) there was a huge number of small children. When you have an RV full of preschoolers, someone can't volunteer, someone can't hit all the meetings and you might bring your own boxes of mac & cheese for meals (I know we did!) I think that was one of the reasons they canceled the ROAs--demographics had changed so much.

When our kids were small but in primary grades they recieved a year,s end reward--tickets to an amusement park--for good behavior and good grades. The tickets were for the same time as HHF, so we reported our plans to not be there but take the kids to the park. Our HFC was adamant about us going to HHF instead.

Can you imagine telling three little kids they couldn't have their reward because we needed to get to HHF? Other kids from the school were there at the same time, it was like a party.We went to the amusement park and had rides, cotton candy, the whole deal. That night hubby and I drank a six pack of beer and had the first really long talk about TWI we'd ever had, and a few months later we left.

That was a real eye opener for Hubby.

Hey! Vitamin rich kraut and black bread were why the barbarians were able to sack Rome--all those unhealthy Romans eating more refined food!

I read it in a book.