TheHighWay

Shellon,

Please, please don't put yourself through that about your husband... if he wasn't ready to listen, he just wasn't. And there isn't a darned thing you could have done to make him "ready"!

Back in the 80s a dear friend of mine left twi over POP. She wore me out trying to convince me I should leave. I finally broke off the friendship over it. (just before twi started explicitly telling us to break off ties with "those" people)

Years later, I found myself in exactly the same boat... I wanted out, but my husband couldn't/wouldn't hear anything I had to say. Banned me from the internet. Banned anything negative from being said about twi. Period.

It's the same as any addictive behavior: you cannot make someone listen to sense when they don't want to hear it. They will do, say, and justify anything to keep themselves in their comfort zone. Consequences be damned.

As for breaking up marriages... yup, twi made it an art form. Subtle and not-so-subtle comments made to this spouse about that spouse... "you are unequally yoked" and "he will end up dragging you down with him" is what I heard for years, but suddenly when I wanted answers, I was the one they said these things about, encouraging my husband to set all kinds of rules and limits on me and send them weekly reports about how he was in control now. What a joke!

Belle,

I experienced nearly identical changes while in twi (clearly we had the same kind of husband!) and received the same kind of comments when I got out. Even my son (who never knew me pre-twi) comments about how different I am now... how much more fun I am now. I stress to him that THIS is the real me, not the way I was!

And the comment about how small the body of christ was while in twi... I remember a distinct feeling I got the day after I parted company with the twits: suddenly the whole world seemed HUGE and open and full of possibilities. It was the first time I realized what a teeny-tiny-little-itsy-bitsy box I had put myself into over the years.

Enjoy the freedom!!!!! It's great out here!

This is so great!! Thanks for sharing with all of us!!

Ooh, oooh, oooooh...

Can't wait. Must go tomorrow and reserve a copy at Borders!! Thanks for the heads-up.

I'm just stunned...

I knew these people. They seemed like nothing but genuinely good people. Suzie was just a sweetie.

I knew he had been her bus driver and had been told he'd waited awhile to ask her out. But I always thought he was a youngish driver that was attracted to an oldish high school kid, with not many years between their ages. I had no idea he was much older or that he was after her at such a young age. It really changes my perspective on the whole thing.

I remember that corps night after Suzie died. Mark got run through the fan-blades over and over again by lcm. But craig didn't have anything good to say about her, her twi-bosses, or the medical staff, either. Everyone was to blame in his eyes, even "ministry women" as a whole. I had wondered at the time how Mark could even lift his head after the double-whammy of losing his wife and then being publically reamed. And I remember craig telling us that after Mark listened to the tape of what was said, he admitted it was his long-standing fear of losing his wife that had triggered the whole chain of events. I admired him for standing up under all the pressure.

Some time later I saw him pushing the baby in a stroller at HQ. I remember thinking how bittersweet it would be to watch your child grow up and see your missing spouse in their looks, their gestures, their personality. I felt really bad for him.

But now, geez. I almost feel the way I did when the truth about lcm's antics finally sunk into my head. Just... wow... crap... wow... damn... his poor kid... wow... hope he rots... wow...

Don't want to derail the thread here, but actually def is not far off... while in-rez we were actively discouraged from leading people into speaking-in-tongues on our own. We were told it wasn't "wrong" but opened the door for so much misunderstanding and for people to go off on their own tangents that it was far better to have them take the class to learn about sit... can you say, "filthy lucre"?

My hubby and I came to twi in the early 80s, in the midst of all the “Isn’t Martindale Great?” hoopla. We had no prior reference point, and all we saw was twi’s public face that said VPW loved and supported LCM. We had no reason to think differently.

When the crap hit hard in the mid-late 80s, I went to a meeting held by R* D*b*sk*. A lot of what he said made sense but he was the rudest, most obnoxious, sarcastic man I’d met in a long time and I was unimpressed. (looking back I can see that he was simply venting from all the crap he’d put up with for so long) I was also married to a koolade-drinker, so there was no considering leaving. No, instead we went into the way corps to support our ministry! Like John said, we thought we could help from the inside out.

At HQ I saw a Craig I had never seen before… he was tired, out of shape; clearly “beat up” mentally and emotionally. He would often meet with us and just “talk” and in my young and na? eyes, it put a very human face on the man. It caused me to give him far more support and compassion than he had a right to, considering he’d been boffing everything he could get his hands on, and kicking people out who stood up to him.

While in residence I saw many of my elder corps lie, cheat and break the rules, simply to thumb their nose at the current leadership. Again, their behavior turned me off from anything reasonable they might have been saying.

Through our training, we kept strictly to the basics of twi doctrine. It was bland, boring, and “afraid”. But at the end of our final year, we started to see Craig stand up for himself. He told Geer to take a hike. He told the staff to make a decision about what they stood for. He seemed to shake off his “funk” and started teaching “hot” Bible again. We all thought he was going to fix the problems and start fresh. (boy, were we wrong)

Only as he went through one purge after another, as our local leadership set us up in bad situations and then left us holding the bag and looking like bad-guys to our believers, as the rules got more and more confining to the point of being just ridiculous, did I start to wake up and realize that this outfit had become a hideous monster, and start considering how to make my escape. And yet, out of habit, and because of my marriage, it still took the Allen lawsuit for me to finally say, “Enough is enough” and get out.

In case any of you are interested, Patrick O'Brian wrote a whole series of books (16-18?)which are not only interesting to read, but are full of extremely accurate details about life in the British naval services during the Napoleonic era. Yes, they drank... a lot. Apparently they mixed their daily ration of citrus juice, and some sugar into the alcohol, (this mix was called grog) to prevent scurvey. But as you say, they also had their ration of beer. Their blood must have been about 50-proof!

In one story the ship's doctor is upset at the amount of drink the men get every day and asks the captain to reduce it. The captain basically tells him he can whip his men, deprive them of sleep, deprive them of women, and deprive them of food, but if he deprived them of their drink or there would most definately be a mutiny.

By the way, these are the books they based the movie Master and Commander on, although I was disappointed in the lack of character development in the movie. Of all the wonderful stories to pick from they choose one that basically had no real beginning or ending. Trust me, the books are much better.

((( Hopper )))

I'm so sorry for your family's short-sightedness. Your situation makes me realize what I put my family through for a lot of years. And they still forgave me and welcomed me back. Just think, at some point your family may realize how wrong they've been, and you'll be there to welcome them back into the real world. Keep a good thought, my friend.

Hope, lucky you!! I was married to someone who wouldn't DREAM of missing a single second of the conference. I remember the one in DC... I never made it out of the building!! Geez.

Great sentiment WG... unfortunately, faithful Wayfers will be in Texas this Thanksgiving, enduring yet another conference (whatever they are calling it) trying to prove how very spiritual and like-minded they are.

I'mo thankful I can enjoy the day as you described it this year!!

It's funny reading the keys again... its the first time in years!!! Whoa... timewarp!

As for some of them being obvious, I remember it being said that Dr. Wierwille was a master of the obvious, and that this was part of his brilliance because so many people (especially in religious circles) overlooked or ignored the obvious. In my experience this was true. I left my childhood church for this very thing. I remember asking the Pastor some pointed questions during confirmation classes and his responses were just ridiculous.

So, Knuckles is right... as someone who had tried several different denominations and not found a spiritual home, the "logic" and "certainty" offered in twi had great appeal. I finally felt like I was learning something useful and getting somewhere with my spirituality.

It wasn't until my last few years in twit that I started to realize how much Wierwille, et. al. waffled on the "keys". This one to fit this point, that one to make that point. Teach one thing do another. When I finally did start to notice, I saw that it was fundamental to everything they did... if you were getting "reproved" from leadership over something and you could back up your actions, they would change tack and come at you from another direction. Anything to always be right.

3-Cents,

Yes Craig got himself a Bible PDA and he loved it.

I don't remember the exact time frame. I was in-rez until 1990, and for about four years after that I came in to HQ for a lot of the live events like corps week and adv.class special. I remember seeing him use it while sitting at a teaching desk. And I remember him saying how convenient it was to look things up that occurred to him while listening to a teaching, or that he could look something up while teaching the corps.

And of course, as word got out that CRAIG had a Bible-PDA, EVERYONE (every guy) wanted a Bible-PDA (including my ex, who also followed the "Craig has a short haircut and goatee, so I will have a short haircut" fashion statement)

I'm with Herbiejuan... It's all about habit and image.

For a group who prided themselves on not being a slave to tradition, but re-evaluating their needs every year, they are caught up in the idea of needing HQ. It is the very image of what twi stands for in the minds of their followers. It doesn't matter that its too big, too much work to keep up, never gets used anymore... they wouldn't dream of letting it go.

Oh my goodness... I have often wondered if I was always this way or trained to it in twi?

It drives me crazy for things to be crooked: books, mug handles, furniture, hanging pictures...

I've tried to think back and the best I can come up with is that I already had a natural tendency to see when things were crooked, but four years of forced chair-stringing wedged the door in my brain open and now the spirit of perfect-alignment comes and goes as he pleases.

Boy, this thread rings familiar with me... I've tried various churches but sooner or later (usually sooner) a hot-button is hit and I just want to bolt out the door.

And just like the comments here point out, I realized it was partially that I am hyper-sensative to never wanting to be forced to stay where I'm not happy, ever, ever again. And partially that I still feel a sense of wanting to please the people around me (one of the big reasons I got sucked into twi, and stayed in so awfully long).

I think the best advice here is think it through, decide if what you like outweighs what you don't like, realize that you don't HAVE to agree with or like EVERYTHING about the group, and also realize that you are completely free to leave whenever you want. It's amazing how difficult these ideas can be once you've been in a cult.

Oh my gosh, Steve! I can't believe someone presumed to know that your shoes were supposed to be thrown away without asking you! But then again, we are talking about a wayfer, right? It brings back vivid memories of when my house was spotless and I was consumed with keeping it that way... soooo glad that's not me anymore!

--- We now return to our temporarily derailed thread---

I also only went to ROAs at HQ... loved it the first year when it was just me in a pup tent and you could wander around and enjoy yourself.

Hated it the last year when it was me in a tent with a husband, an infant, air mattresses, playpen, highchair, stroller, table & chairs, a hanging clothes rack because we had to have formalwear for corpse-weak, and hanging shelves to keep everything "decent and in order", and everyone was "expected" to be to all the meetings.

I would love to hear other peoples' recollections of the earlier ROAs.

Oh my... morbid couriosity made me watch all the clips... I still think fondly on a couple of those folks...

But, have you noticed that as they add or replace people, they are about the same age as everyone else? What happened to all the young, enthusiastic musicians? Not there!!!

The choir: I remember when they would "pad" the choir for special events so it filled the stage and filled the auditorium with sound... this was pretty skimpy and lame. A perfect reflection of twi.

And as for the lack of real expression on the faces of the "singing ladies", heck I'd have a plastic smile on my face, too, if I had to remember all those exact steps and hand movements for every single song!! Used to be just the joy in the music was enough to keep people watching... now it's just not way-prod-me-awake unless you have plastic choreography to go along with it.

What's so very sad and scary is that anyone looking at them can see it, but they can't see it themselves. They think they are God's best. Geez.

Oops... you mean I got my decade themes wrong? Better kick me out --- oh, they did that already. hehehehe

Interesting... as I look closer at the picture, I see everybody working, but I get no clear understanding of what they are working on/for... its just very muddled; really not cohesive at all. Yeah, THAT's what this ministry is all about!!

I remember when the idea of these theme posters first came along. It was optional and a lot of us liked them because they weren't half bad to look at. (loved the one of the path through the woods) But this? Uhhh... I wouldn't want this displayed prominently in my home!!

Okay, I just took a peep at twi's website to see their new poster and "surprise, surprise" it contains the phrase: the promised land of the prevailing word.

I expected that. But above that it plainly reads: The Decade of Prevailing... huh? Isn't that a phrase Craiggers coined for the 90's? Aren't we well into the 2000's? (the decade which, by the way, saw the ousting of the one who coined the phrase in the first place?)

Geez! They are more mindless than they ever were.

I think it really started in 1990, at HQ, when I saw the leadership's really crappy response to some things that I KNEW were very spiritual and Godly happening in my life.

It then lead to the whole of the 1990s when our leadership would give us directives, we would follow them, and they would ALWAYS find a way to blame us for something we had done wrong, and NEVER accept responsibility for having given us the directives in the first place. And having every single moment of my life scrutinized and controlled by people who didn't give a rat's butt about my needs.

I was already thinking about chucking the whole mess, when the Allen lawsuit hit. That was it. I sat in a meeting being told Craig had screwed up, but that we were all spiritually responsible to hold the ministry together, and oh by the way, we really didn't need to know what the actual charges were... it wasn't important. HUH!?!! Oh, and then they give him the assignment of "Head of Research"!?!!?!?!

It took months for the whole thing to finally happen. (Like grasshopper... wanting to leave, knowing you should leave, and actually leaving are all very different things)... but it's been less than five years and it seems like much longer, because I've gotten more accomplished in that short time than I had in the entire 20 years I was in twi.

No, they never MADE anyone get out of debt or sell their house... they just gave us choices:

Do it, or you cannot attend the Advanced Class, be a Fellowship Coordinator, or attend the WIB/Special conferences. Meaning, you will be looked down upon by your fellow twig-ites for not "believing God" or rising up to the standards of the Word, and you will be harrassed by your local (and if you are lucky, your state/region) coordinators until you can't stand it any more.

Do it, or leave the ministry (meaning, turn your back on God, step right into the path of the oncoming devil's-gonna-get-you-train, be shunned by every friend you've been allowed to have for the past xx years).

Nope, no pressure there.

Rascal... you speak of the light-bearers being distant from the locals in the late 80s. I can tell you first hand during that time-frame we were specifically instructed to keep the locals out of it. Lightbearers was for WC, and everybody else should just be blessed to host us, etc. I definitely felt very awkward staying for two weeks at someone’s home and barely speaking to them the whole time!! I think this was the same time period where the WOWs were told to stay separate from the locals, too. What was that Greek word that meant like-minded, but separate? pros?

I would have loved them to come witnessing with us, and to have their input into things. Who else would know the area better? I kept thinking that it would be fun and help energize them so that when we left there would be a lingering effect to bless the area.

JustThinking... I don’t know how far away then would send the corps in the earlier years, but my second time out, we hitch-hiked, so they limited it to a one-day or less hitch (they would figure twice the driving time).

Witnessing in general was always a burden during my time in TWI. One of the best teachings I ever heard was right before my first time out lite-bares, and D*nn!* F*g!t taught about just going about your life's activities with the love of God shining through, looking to include people in what you were doing because you wanted to help them, would make you a natural magnet. But the people I went out with were very legalistic and took all the fun out it. Since we had to do things together, and I always got out-voted on what activity was chosen, I was so out of my element most of the time I didn't have a clue how to approach people.

And door-to-door!! I don't like people knocking on my door trying to sell me something! In the 90's we were forced by the RCs to do door-to-door once a week in our own neighborhoods. We had to follow twi's current FORMAT for witnessing and I knew we sounded like the cult-members we were. I was so embarrassed when I would run into these same people later. It was clear that twi witnessed to GET something from people, not to GIVE. Real turn-off!!

Digger, sweetie...

I wonder sometimes if things come to us in the middle of the night because we have less of a guard up... Thank goodness for a place like this that you can vent and get it out there... in my experience it makes it so much more bearable! You know many of us here have gone through our own kinds of hell at the hands of men... I'm SO sorry you were not an acception.

I'm glad you are moving on with your life. As they say, the best revenge is a life well-lived. Live yours to the fullest!!

What gerbils and fish? ... most way kids don't have any pets... big or little.