TheHighWay

Nameless,

You have received some excellent advice on this thread, but let me just add... don't be suprised if you get smooth, rational answers to your questions. Answers that make all us onliners seem like whiney, sour-grapes quitters. You certainly won't be the first person who's asked them questions and most followers have actually been coached on just what to say to make your suspicions seem silly. (It's part of learning how to witness.)

By making those of us who have left (eh-hem... I am just one of many who got the boot after twenty years of attending every class, training program and event, and sending in 18% of my net paycheck every week, for merely asking too many pesky, persistent questions) ... anyway ... by making us seem irrational, emotional, overly-dramatic, fixated on past hurts, and without "biblical logic", they attempt to make themselves seem very cool-headed and Godly. Patient and forgiving, even.

And you should probably expect to hear that the former ministry president made some mistakes, but he's gone now so things are good again... never mind that no open admission or apology for everyone being forced to "follow his directives or leave" has EVER been made to the members at large, and most of them have no idea of all the lawsuits that have been brought against twi. (lack of information is a big key to their control)

To twi members, rank and authority are everything. They believe you are blessed by God by following the directives of your leadership (especially your husband) with your whole heart, whether they are wrong or not!!! The "wrongness" is an issue just between them and God, (not you) and you will be blessed for your OBEDIENCE. Get used to that word. It's one of their favorites. If you do obey but are not blessed, it's because you must not have been acting whole-heartedly.

OBEDIENCE. COMMITMENT. SUBMISSION. It's their mantra.

Wow... I expected everyone to say they had been in the mags at one time or another... seems like I know so many who were, including me.

I was in the college division when they did a feature spread, including some class shots that we were all in, and then I happened to be in-rez in the corps when they did a feature spread on how "great" it was to hike and chop wood and run and study and how we did fun things like slumber parties and hey, don't YOU want to be corps too?

The candid shots were always great to look at whether you knew the folks or not, but about mid-eighties you start seeing less and less of those and all the apparently-canded shots began being posed... gave them more control over how it looked and more control over who was in it... can't be showing any copouts by accident, now can we? Of course, it also makes things look like Stepford, but they don't seem to realize that.

VP's death was an emotional time for me, not because it meant all that much to me personally, but because I was surrounded by others who were just completely knocked out and numbed by his passing.

Imbus, I was there at Emporia as well... I remember being called into a meeting, (what was that room above the cafeteria called?) and Pat Lynne being terribly distraught as she read the official notice from HQ. I was sad but felt a little guilty because I wasn't "devestated".

I remember they set aside a few days of mourning on campus where there were no classes or work, and everyone was just supposed to find their own solace.

And we held a memorial service up in the WW Library... I, too, took a petal from one of the roses. I was part of a group that sang (was it amazing grace? I can't quite remember) and it was hard not to get choked up because so many people in the room were crying.

After that, I just figured Craig was in charge and that was that... I was pretty new to TWI and still took everything at face value.

I don't care what the purpose is... I just like it here!!

If you know what "casually nice" means... you might be in a cult.

If you've ever sat through 3-4 hour meetings on a regular basis and been told that drinking water or having to use the bathroom during those meetings was an indication of your spiritual weakness and lack of preparation... you might be in a cult.

If you rate people's spirituality by the color of their nametag... you might be in a cult.

If someone quotes the King James Bible and you hear the translation according to usage in VPW's or LCM's voice go off in your head... you might be in a cult.

If you ever took a 2-week camping trip that included formalwear, a clothes rack, shelves, a playpen and a highchair, and called it "traveling light"... you might be in a cult.

If you know what "aerobic points" or "Benny's Wheat" are... you might be in a cult.

If you know every corny joke ever told by man... you might be in a cult.

If you think it's normal to put on a dress and heels and walk 1/4 mile across campus in the winter to hear a teaching... you might be in a cult.

If you've ever joined a monthly caravan of vehicles driving almost five hours in order to change clothes and listen to an hour-long teaching you will be getting a tape of in three days, and then change clothes and drive the five hours back home again in the same day...you might be in a cult.

If you've been told that the speeding ticket you received after being the "follow" car in a caravan lead by your speed-limit-blind leadership was due to your lack of believing... you might be in a cult.

Tom, I just recently saw this movie and had almost the same experience as you did... started out slowly but got more and more drawn into the story, trying to watch for clues to what might be factual and what might be fictional... definately cried at the end. (but then, I cry at everything)

Even if the subject matter in WAP wasn't way off the charts weird, Craig's method of teaching was HIDEOUS. He'd start on a subject, then say, "I'm gonna tell you more about that later." and then go off on some other tangent... When I had to sit thru WAP my second time, I purposely listened to see how often he actually DID "tell us more about it" later on and it was almost NEVER.

Disjointed, confronting, topics way, way, way over the head of any newbies. In fact, the newbies we had were 2 kids of leadership, and an adult woman who spent the whole class telling me how confused and disappointed she was, and finished the class only because she'd made the commitment but who was so put off by all the plastic people who were running the thing, she quit coming to fellowships right after the class ended.

Oh, and on that note, when WAP was first introduced, it was only to be made available to folks who were faithfully attending fellowships for a certain period of time (months, then a month, then weeks). But by the time we ran our class (a year or two later) they railroaded this gal into taking it by making all kinds of promises about what she would learn, and then "ran" her through ONE fellowship meeting the night before class was starting just to be able to say she had "attended". So much for standards.

AdiosMiCorazon, please email me at mugcollector@hotmail.com ... Thanks

Don't know why but his name just popped into my head the other day. I would love to know whatever happened to him and how he's doing these days? He brought me many of my happier moments in-rez, especially when he would just burst into song as he walked down the hallways of Founders Hall.

Daryl, Thanks for posting your story. May your life's journey from here on be a wonderful one.

Oh my gosh... between the department lists and the picture, best laugh I've had in WEEKS.

Thanks all !!

The movie is accurate because it's based on a series of books that are EXTREMELY detailed and accurate... Patrick O'Brian has written 18-20 books about these characters, starting with the first time Jack Aubrey and Dr. Matchurin meet, and ending with Jack as an admiral. For 40+ years O'Brian has read ALL there is of British naval records, logbooks, etc. and put much of it into his books.

I've read and re-read this series for about six years now and was very excited but a bit nervous to hear they were making a movie. Thank goodness the director decided to put all that detail into the movie!! Good stuff.

Once again, I am left almost speechless by the complete DRIVEL sent out by a twi representative!!

Harve trying to decipher just what it was that JP was "disagreeing with" smacks of the same kind of self-serving smugness as qualifying what the word "is" means. The question, "How stupid do you think we are?" comes to mind, quickly followed by, "Scratch that... How stupid are you????"

But the comment that I don't believe has been mentioned yet in this thread that popped out as I was reading was this: ... While we cannot (and will not) use the ministry assets for such personal expenses, [ie Mrs W's nursing home costs] we will find a legal and viable solution to ensure that your mother's needs are satisfied.

FIND... they would find a way to pay... if and when it eventually becomes necessary because there is no other way to get things paid for...

They haven't FOUND a way, they aren't even LOOKING for a way right now... they are quite happy to use any other means available to cover this rather than to exert themselves to find a way THEY can pay for her needs right now.

Nope... not because they promised Vic, not because they owe her, not because it's simply the right thing to do... oh heavens NOT because they actually have emotional feelings for the woman!!!

If this were about someone I genuinely loved with all my heart (as they should feel for Mrs. W) I would be doing everything and anything to get around the obstacles, not sitting back at my desk shooting out letters stating why I couldn't do anything.

Yup, Harve... clearly states your heart and intent, your methods and your justifications... 'nuff said.

[This message was edited by TheHighWay on October 26, 2003 at 18:44.]

[This message was edited by TheHighWay on October 26, 2003 at 18:45.]

John and Cheryl-Anne are out.

I cannot speak for them directly but my last contact with them gave me the impression that they were stuck between a rock and a hard place (as were many of us) for a long time and did things they were not at all proud of... let's face it, for a lot of us, the longer you are out, the more you realize just how badly you were behaving and how many apologies you owe people.

Does anyone know if she's in or out? Or where she is?

Thanks

I got an email response from Eric this spring and can only describe his wording as "careful". He didn't come right out and say it, but it was very clear to me they are still in twi and think it's a wonderful thing.

Once he realized I no longer think twi is a wonderful thing, he quit emailing me.

Oh dang... I don't count... only 19 years for me...

My biggest problem these days is trying not to be selfish and lazy. After many, many years of putting everyone else first, ALWAYS. And the same amount of years with almost NO free time, now that I'm out I've "rebounded".

I feel that I spend far too much time pleasing only myself and often putter away my free time with completely unproductive stuff. So, is that selfish and lazy? Or is it really that I'm okay and still need to get over the guilty feelings?

Okay, my turn...

I was still in twi, very unhappy, but trapped by family circumstances. Then the Allen lawsuit hit, I found WayDale, and I couldn't keep quiet any longer. When family members insisted I discuss my grievances with the local leadership, they did their best to talk me into falling back in line and forgetting what I had learned. If not, they didn't want me to attend fellowships any longer.

They said I had a choice, "It's our way or the hiway."

And I replied, "No-way. I'll just take TheHighWay. Bye, Way."

Hey Eric and Janice, if that's really you and you are out please, please email me... dobbyisfree@hotmail.com

Some old buds from the 18th corps would love to hear from you!!

Ditto... last confirmed WA address was 2001.

I would LOVE to find out how these two are doing! Tumbleweed, do you know if they are in or out?

Cats are like dust bunnies... once you have one, they just seem to multiply in your midst.

I now seem to have become house-mom to a stray tom. He comes to my porch every morning and sits, looking in the window at my cats. He knows they can't touch him, and he sits calmly watching them throw themselves at the glass, telling him it's THEIR house, not his. I love his sweet, dopey face.

He's still too skittery to let me pet him, but he no longer darts off the porch when I approach with food and water. And when I come home in the evening, he's often sitting in the yard waiting. Yeah, I know, it's the kibble and not me he's waiting for, but give me a few months, he'll be my baby like the rest of them.

I also run a multiple cat home. All indoor only. One is declawed because she REFUSED to stop shredding my furniture. But the others mind their manners and keep the clawing to the proper places.

I love them all but my favorite by far is my meezer (siamese). Talk about personality!! Part human, part dog, part cat. Great pet.

Thanks much for the information! I had no idea...

Rottie...

I'm curious about your source of "authorities" who say that one of the factors of a cult is that they don't believe Jesus is God...

I just read an interview with an expert who said he doesn't judge a cult to be a cult based on any of it's doctrine, only on how the structure works and how it treats it's people. He said cults come in all sorts of religions with all sorts of teachings.

I'm just curious... maybe he's the exception.