waterbuffalo

Happy Belated b-day, Pawtucket. You are an amazingly courageous and innovative individual. Maybe you have many more to come.

One day we shall know as we are known...slightly scary prospect.

One day all hurt and pain will be washed away.

Till then, we need to show a little (okay, a lot) of compassion and kindness. We all have a few hurts. We all have off days. And (like it or not0 we all need someone to be sympathetic, kind, once in a while.

Those are sweet thoughts, Twinkie :)Thank you!

I took his class about 12 years ago. And I firmly believe his class to be the greatest cure of insomnia in the world today.

I'm so sad for former way followers who run geer classes in their homes. They do all of the work and invest their time/money for all of those hours to run it cleaning their homes, providing electricity, heat, a/c, and pastoring the new people . The local mog sits back and collects abs and doesn't contribute to the financial end of running the classes yet clears 90% of the abs for his family's benefit and dictates how the classes will be run. Then, cg sits back and collects 10% of the licensed mog's abs. Or, was it 20%? Someone else can probably remember.

Some of these people are wonderful couples who, for whatever reason, were never leaders in twi. I suppose their role as a leader is that important to them and that is why they do it. But, what about the eternal rewards? Is this what God wants for them? Propping up mogs, footing the bill both timewise and financially, while someone else reaps the rewards? Are there eternal rewards for being stupid? Doesn't the Bible say something about the workman is worthy of his hire? And, to top it all off, the mogs don't even have to sit there hour after hour and listen to the boring class. Man. Do they have it made, or what?

Leafytwiglet,

All kidding aside, how close are you to your friend? I was just a bit concerned b/c I made a friend once who ran fellowships and later discovered she really was just a "friend." In other words, she saw me as a potential contributor to her and her hub's group. My husband did eventually start going to their "church" and we later contributed quite a bit to their organization. They were doing "inner healing" which turned out to be just them getting people to tell their deepest darkest secrets after lying on the floor and listening to praise music over the course of several month and later years.

I feel very foolish even talking about it now and sincerely hope this isn't the same type of thing that your friend or "friend" is doing.

Peace!

wb

Yeah I caught that the first night.

IT is a case of what she thinks I need healing from and what I am trying to work on in my life right now.

I have done nothing but think about it since I posted and you answered.

I have the booklet and I am going to spend time this weekend going all the way through the exercises to the end to see what is intended.

I am at this point just sticking my toe in.. IF it really looks like it is going to get too invasive I will pull out. Before I go any further in. I just do not want another TWI experience, even if it is not so invasive.. Even though my time in was not as horrific as others I came away from it with some real hurts .. IT took me along time to realize God loved me whether I was in TWI or some where else.. and a long to to get over the guilt of leaving our TWIG.

That first lesson DVD for this class though is just creepy... I thought it so reminded me of TWI .. which is why I posted on here.

WG I really can not thank you enough for all your input. Also Once I review it all I think I will post what I see on here just in case anyone else has questions about it.

It is their newest class since the other two, "the purpose driven life" and "the purpose driven church".

They encourage you to go threw it a t the same time as the class but I am not a lamb to be led to the slaughter anymore.

Leafytwiglet, you sound like you're in a good place to evaluate what they're planning to "do to" you. Sorry. I meant "for" you. LOL!!! And, I'll bet they think they're doing something new.

I disagree. Here's why.

I understand how some people may think The Way was good “in the old days” and somehow “got off track” in later years. But I take issue with this line of thinking. I call it deluded nostalgia: a wistful or excessively sentimental yearning for return to or of some past period or irrecoverable condition. What exactly is that condition people are craving? I was involved from 1971-1987 and I don’t crave any of it. But I figure I’d pitch in my two cents here.

Frankly, I think it appears to be nostalgia for small fellowships with rock music or old hymns “corrected to be accurate” with Way doctrine, simple teachings (I guess), and camaraderie with others who thought like we did, and learning “what the Bible says.” On the surface, these things seem fairly harmless. But when I really think about the “old TWI days,” and these activities, I come up with some concerns:

1. The simplistic idealism that we could save the world with cut and dry Bible answers

2. The lack of mature dealings in the world. I was addressed as a child and kept from growing up while in the Corps and afterwards,

3. The gross neglect of my critical thinking faculty

4. The fact we were supposed to sell the PFAL class to people in order for VP to approve of our lives

5. The issue of whether we were “helping people” by using tools belonging to VP’s brand of fundamentalism

6. As far as I know, some still think they helped people with “the Word.” But what exactly is “The Word?” It’s very vague to me. My understanding is that when a phrase is used, there’s a definition for it somewhere. I don’t know of one for “The Word.” It is a phrase thrown around as if we all know what it means. This reminds me of the fairytale about the Emperor’s new clothes. The fact was: Emperor was not wearing any clothes. I don’t think anyone knows what The Word is.

7. Suffice it to say here, the usual explanation by TWI people and former TWI people for what “The Word” is goes something like this: you have to “use certain keys to research to discover what the original Word was.” Whose keys to research? How come we so readily accepted VP’s which he took from various other people who were fundamentalists? If it were so simple to know “The Word,” how come so many diverse interpretations persist?

But back to the good old days. Let’s say the “good old Way days” were good after all, although this is hard for me to fathom. What exactly is being referred to by this claim? IMO, VP created some sense of community with some people for awhile, but what was that based upon? The way I see it, it was based on an agreement that VP’s teachings were God’s Word, on the commitment to the common cause of VP’s delusion of “moving The Word over the World,” and on a simple love for other people - as long as they obeyed what VP said was The Word. If they didn’t, at the very least they were not as spiritual as we were; at the very worst they were “born of the seed of the devil.”

Let’s not forget, however, that this conditional camaraderie came at a price: It was held together by a patriarchal system fraught with deception and power struggles, not to mention rampant sexual, fiscal, and emotional abuse.

In my view, wishing for “the good old days of The Way” denies the nature of the group itself – a fundamentalist, narrow-minded, anti-Christian movement. Why do I say it is anti-Christian? Because people were used as a means to an end. What was the end? Believe that what VP taught was the truth. Evangelize. Sell PFAL classes. Behave according to what The Way leadership dictated.

Nostalgia for the old days also seems to deny the fact that from its inception, the cult was engineered by V.P. Wierwille, who claimed, like Paul in the New Testament, that he heard an audible voice from a monotheistic God adopted from another culture from thousands of years ago (or the voice of Jesus, as in Paul’s case) that no one else heard. This raises all sorts of issues too complex to get into here I think.

While I met many good people whose kindness made me feel loved, during my TWI years, VP’s teachings, such as telling me I was “more than a conqueror” did not help me resolve problems I brought into The Way with me. For awhile, it engendered a positive attitude in me but it did not produce a healthy self image or tolerance, understanding and compassion for others who might not agree with what I believed. I think the doctrines in many instances only instilled a good deal of denial about myself, the good in the world, other cultures, and denial about what it means to be human.

When I first took PFAL, at 18 years old, I certainly was gullible to The Way’s “answers” but the human brain is not even fully developed until 23 or 24 years old so that’s part of this scenario, too. But I also readily admit that I consciously turned a deaf ear to people who warned me not to get involved.

Not only did I make grave errors in judgment when getting involved with TWI, but I was seduced by big fat claims about the nature of the system I was in. It claimed to be a biblical research ministry but it is extreme fundamentalism. I suggest more of us get informed not only about how cults function but what fundamentalism is and the history of its development. It’s not only a way of interpreting the bible but a way of existing in the world.

Nice!

Bump

Oops!

I Didn't see Jeff had brought it back.

Thanks for bringing this back, Jeff. I had never read it.

Kept wondering several pages back, if the DIL was mimicing some of her mother's behaviors which they, the MOGS, would have known about from her bio. Maybe that was why she was one of their targets.

Thanks Krys for talking about this very painful subject. So happy your son is doing well and is successful and has moved on as much as he seems to have done. I agree with another poster who wishes the DIL well. I also hope she gets the therapy that she most certainly would need after these abuses.

And a person who is going to cheat doesn't do it for love it is a selfish act and they justify it in their own head. it has absolutely nothing to do with not getting it at home.

I agree. That's not even in the equation, imo.Let's see...where did we learn that it was?????

When we marry, we take vows. Any vow our spouse breaks does not negate vows that we took.

Do you have ask.com as a toolbar or search engine in your browser-any browser you have?

If you do, remove the ask toolbar from 'add/remove programs' in the 'control panel'.

Cman, THANK YOU! You're about the nicest person on this board. YOU THE MAN!

You know, I'm just not sure if my files are backed up. You need to back up your files b4 trying to remove it. What a pain. Yes, I googled it b4 asking for help.

Hello wise geeks,

I need help. The UpdateTask.exe keeps wanting to connect to the internet. I scanned spybot and then did a full system scan on F-secure--nothing.

Also, looked for it in Add/Remove programs. Not there.

How do I get rid of it?

Thanks!

wb

15 years TWI= a lot of time and money

20 years Offshoots= a lot more time and a lot more money.

The rest of your life without them = PRICELESS

Enjoy!

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh. THANK YOU, TAXICAB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And, I certainly AM! My involvement with all of that now seems like a bad dream.

Errors in PFAL? There are so many I could not catalog them.

On the other hand, a lot of his information, advice about living, came for the AA book.

Seriously.

"His" definition for humble is just one of them.

How do I respond to bullying now? Not well.

I lost a job due to standing up to a bully at work one time.

Twinky...I wasn't talking about sincere folks who meet together in someone's house for Christian fellowship or prayer meetings or whatever...I was talking about those who learned the formula for starting a business...the God business that generates revenue through people's belief systems.

I'm sure there are many ex twi folks who endeavor to lead good Christians lives...but there are others who feed their bellies and their egos by lording over and taking advantage of others...thanks to the example that Vic set.

Ah, yes. We know some in our town like that, unfortunately.

With everybody becoming God, he sounds sorta post-modern....

It's the other stuff that makes him sound Fundamentalist Mormon...

Didn't read the becoming god part, WW. FUNNY!!!!!

Lots a odd-balls out there.

There's something for everyone :) I suppose...

Could I answer you original question, Belle, without getting off topic?

How stupid can I be?

Pretty darn stupid! I was involved with The Way Ministry for 15 years and then offshoots for another, oh 20, so how crazy is that? Pretty darn stupid!

It seems to be a bit of Mormon flavor added to post-modern thinking. I think you will notice that the emphasis is on community and not doctrine, which sets it apart from the TWI home church concept. Could you imagine having a dialog during the actual "message" part of a twig gathering? I don't think so.

What this guy is talking about is pretty much where I've been headed for the past 10 years (without the Mormon thing of being pre-destined royalty), and didn't know why. It seems to be kind of a stream of consciousness that's been awakening in people. This is yet another person who is manifesting it with some interesting twists.

Ah, yes, I thought the same thing, Tazia, at first.

But, would it really be like that once you got involved...

I have my doubts. They started it, so my guess is it's THEIRS...no matter how involved and supportive other Christians become who hook up with them. Again, just my opinion for what that's worth.

This sounded so good...

"Why I Quit Church and Started Attending Love Feasts"

Then, it sounded so familiar...

Nothing new under the sun, I suppose...

Apparently, Baptist minister turned Mormon, now doing own thing house church but will speak at your house church if you book him...

Ron,

How are you doing these days?

George

Ron, I just saw this thread. Yes, please give us an update. Thanks!

I really wish someone would stand up to twi bullies and refuse to change their name. no one OWNS the words in the bible, for christ's sake.

Sadly, even if they wanted to, they may not have deep enough pockets to go to court and win. Maybe a philanthropist out there is listening.

God first

What is love?

09-25-2009

Here I sat looking into the great inside of the center of spirit the part is love and you do not have to be Christian to understand what am about write. Love is an emotion that you could have until Christ died for you Atheism and Christian both have it.

Atheist may not believe they have because of Jesus Christ and I not going fight about it so we will leave it there. This love an emotion that can show people in your actions like a young boy signs will be in face.

They will have a reaction to the love even not real love that last forever the young boy might find himself with an action that shows in his sex organs. But it true love you will see him light up when he around her but if he wants from his sex organs will show the proved.

Real love is not about sex but an emotion that his heart shows not his sex organs while many may not believe me because some can start as about the sex organs but change over time together. Why am written about love now I do not know but I need to asked this question.

What is love? Many people have tried to answer this question because love can be seem but effect love has over a person can only be witness. Thank you all for reading my written that God moves to write with love Roy.

It's sure not what I thought it was in The Way, that's for sure.

Yeah, I think a lot of us identified with the "supporting" cast more than the leads.

June Cleaver. How did she ever do any housework in those perfectly starched dresses and those heels?

Thanks Ron for the photo and Paw for letting us know how old the photo is. Amazing.

Well, I know now, but why didn't the light bulb go off then? My parents told me it was going on.

I didn't know either. I totally believed it was a Christian ministry. And, we may be in the majority of the people who were involved back then.

After typing my last post, I realized why. I did know, just refused to believe. In the Corps, a girl in our twig was always going to wierwille's motorcoach to give him massages. She'd come to breakfast in the morning exhausted and said she was called to the coach 2 in the morning.

You mean they weren't really giving him massages???????