waterbuffalo

Happy BD, Ron!

wb

(((((Likeaneagle's family and friends)))))

I'm so sorry for your loss, RainbowsGirl.

She will be missed!

Happy Birthday yesterday, Pawtucket! Hope it was a great one.

I can't believe how we willingly gave so much creedence to what vpw said, considering his real motives and predilections.

See, I'm with you. It's as if it was another person. Not me.

It had never occurred to me to even consider that the Jonestown believers were just like us--good, big-hearted people who wanted to help their fellow man and contribute to a cause greater than themselves--until after exhausting every other option on cable TV last night, I decided to watch the Jonestown documentary.

Omg. Watching the survivors tell their stories...yes, eerily, as another poster said, they all reminded me of former way believers. The one thread that ran throughout, imo, was that they all were undoubtedly intelligent, talented, attractive, patriotic, loving, compassionate individuals and some are educated professionals.

As the school teacher in Calif. said of her deceased family and friends, "They were some of the nicest people you'd ever want to meet." That's what I saw in each of them as they told their stories. As one of the sisters said--I'll paraphrase--calling them cultists is so wrong because then you don't have to think of them as individuals, human beings, people--and that is so wrong. 300+ PEOPLE died down there. They all had families. They were all individual people who died. Not a crazy group.

What I used to think about them--that's what people used to think about me when I was in. Scary.

Watching that documentary has taken a piece of my heart and cleared out some junk in my heard about who those people were and possibly about who I was when I was associated with twi. For the first time since coming to gsc, I didn't feel ashamed to have been associated with twi. I remembered who I was back then and how I really did feel we were helping people and doing good in the world. As a survivor said last night, they couldn't be bought. It wasn't about money for them. It wasn't for us in twi, either. We, or at least I and the majority of the others that I was close with in twi, really believed we were living for a higher purpose and helping man-kind.

So, it was me, and it wasn't me. That part of me that totally trusts in people/organizations is gone. But, I like to think the good parts are still there--just have found healthier outlets and hopefully am doing work that makes a difference in the world while not sabotaging my own self, life, career, interests...

Some quotes that reminded me of myself/other ex-way folks:

In fact, these were mostly ordinary people who joined the temple because they wanted to help their fellow man and be part of something larger than themselves.

"We don't want to face our own responsibility or part in what happened and feel ashamed for being duped or manipulated," he said. "We look for someone else to blame. I realized over time that there was a great need to forgive him, then I could forgive myself."

I agree with part of the second quote. I feel ashamed of my involvement, right or wrong.

My recollection from the secret corps meeting was vp telling us they were all murdered by the CIA, didn't commit suicide, and he had the scoop from a govm't official. It was all hush hush of course.

Here's a really good article from an interview from a survivor:

Jonestown Survivor - Most were people who wanted to do good and live for a cause higher than themselves

Hi FinallyUnderstand,

I tend to agree with dooj. Now, here are my thoughts: If a group/church/fellowship/whathaveyou makes me uncomfortable, I now listen to my instincts and get outta there. There are plenty of flavors out there, and if you really want to belong to something, some group, you'll probably eventually find one that you do feel comfortable with.

My advice? Keep looking. Your inner voice will be talking to you. Listen to it. Just because you feel uncomfortable with the way a group worships does not mean you are being critical. I repeat. That does not mean you are being critical. You have the right to feel uncomfortable with the way anything is done at any church. That does not mean you're being critical. It probably simply means that one is not for you. Again, keep looking. If you really need to belong to a church, the right one will be there eventually. Don't compromise your true feelings just to fit in. I did that several years back and regretted it later on.

Thanks Dooj, Groucho!

thanks, waysider, dooj.

So, when is the clam bake? Just wondered. Thanks for the BBQ photos. Those were great. Dooj, if yuo're ever into sharing the truffle cake recipe.....sounds yum.

Geo, I wanna t-chirt like yours!!!!!

Peace.

Love :-)

Great memory ScoutFinch!

Congrats Shortfuse!

Recovery is wonderful. You'll become yourself again.

Enjoy the journey and try to resist the temptation to be hard on yourself :-)

You've nothing to feel bad about.

Breathe....

Happy BD, Belle!!!

You were right. Vanilla in coffee does make it better!!

Hope you had a fine day on your special day.

If they made a lot of sense, I'd be happy that they were in recovery.

Yes, you (we all) were in a cult.

Yes, all of the splinters are cults.

:(

i remember being at a major function maybe an advanced class and there was a new young emerson spouse (gorgeous young girl)

i think i have the right person

One in the same, I believe. Was that the same advanced class when Doug did some extra curriculur sexual d.s. "research" with another married student--both married, just not to each other?

Both couples left residence shortly thereafter...by invitation, I believe.

Ham, Happy BD!!!

Happy BD, Linda!!!!!

QUOTE (JeffSjo @ Oct 14 2008, 01:23 PM)

Once in my little splinter group the same elder that later fired me from my job after they moved my wife and son out of my house told me about an idea to help the community, well, specifically the town that was nearest their location. They were going to train chosen people to get involved with local government activities in the town. This elders own words were something along the lines of,"We could make things SO MUCH BETTER!"

My gut reaction to this was that they were stupid and prideful to automatically assume that they could improve things for the local town that SO DESPERATELY NEEDED THEIR HELP. By this time I was operating with a fairly clear picture of how my splinter leader would use an incursion into local government affairs to expand his influence with his loyal disciples. Frankly, I thought that either the locals would laugh them out of involvement when they saw how my splinter group operated or, eventually my splinter leader would slowly turn town life into a living he!! for the residents, perhaps over five or ten years.

Something I read this morning came to mind as I read your post. Here goes:

"Much of what is wrong in my life is related to my opinions--that is, my prejudices, assumptions, self-righteous stances, attitudes. For example, I continue to assume that I have the inside track on how everything should be done, and that other people are too short-sighted to recognize this great truth. Reality proves me wrong."

Borrowed from: Courage to Change, October 14th

The reason this stuck in my mind is because that's the way I used to think while involved with twi and for a long time afterwards. Recovery is wonderful :)

I dunno, Hammy

Maybe 'the critics" are related to the famous "They" family.

You know----"They" say this and "They" say that---

Or as Dr. John once said, "Who are "they" and has anybody ever seen them?"

Responding to waysider's quote: My uncle used to feed us moon pies when we helped him work :-) We'd work for that, an ice cold bottle of coke (thick short glass bottles), nabs, and 75 cents per hr.

Hey Jeff!

Elders? Are you serious??????? The splinter group leadahs are called elders?

I'm sawry! But, elders?

What's the difference in the splinter group and the mormons or the JWs?

Isn't that what they call their mogs, too?

Too funny.

Happy BD, LAE!

Thanks, RR. I clean it out that way pretty regularly. Will do on reporting it. Probably what got it going was responding to Secret Shopper a couple of yrs. ago. It's been pretty heavy ever since...