waterbuffalo

A more normal response for this guys wife would probably be a frying pan upside the head. Agreed! But I guess the environment conditions out normal responses. I guess eventually it caught up with him. A normal Christian response of course would be that the BC would be reproved and relieved of responsibility for a lack of "good Christian character" like they say are qualifications for applying for the program. Yes, that's what I thought. It makes you wonder what the BC thought was going to happen at that meeting. I mean, what did he want the CC to say to me?

The BC guy sounds like the type who, outside of being married, you'd wonder if he'd ever touched a woman. That's just stupid behavior. You said he didn't come off as too bright. He was probably stupid. He was probably too stupid to be pimping, but trying to pimp. Did he have access to read your autobiography? The CC did probably, and he sounded a little more balanced (but as a CC he should have been correcting that kind of stupidity by the BC). Yes, instead of leaving me to wonder if I was still in trouble, etc. and if so, why. Actually BCs wife cleaned it up by telling me later that she would communicate anything from then on that needed to be communicated. That was fine with me--one of my stranger Corps experiences.

I still crave that sense of community - of having a large bunch of people who really seemed to care about me and be interested in my life - but I am not willing to give up my freedom of thought just to "belong" again. I don't know if I will ever really "belong" anywhere again, but it's becoming less and less important.

Yeah, JJ. A lot of us got stuck with more than we bargained for just to belong, didn't we?

But all it takes is another dog peeing on that same spot to show him who's boss.

Wasn't the CC who didn't support his power play? Bigger dog - stronger scent. (Thank goodness in this case that PP didn't support him.)

Yeah, Dooj. That was all right with me

i believed it all(hazy on the SIT part at first)but it was what I believed my calling at the "tender"

age of 18 yrs old.

Who knew 30 yrs down the road I would be warning people of The "ministry"(cough!)I so would

have given my life for to serve.

I believe now this whole ball of wax was a system designed just like a terrorist designs a chemical

that can wipe out a target he desires.

In this case the target was young,mostly middle class, white, educated people,and the Jesus movement

at the time just gave it that extra bonus round.

It was a whole ball of wax allright...like collected ear wax so impacted in your brain we were deaf to

anything else!

Let him that has ears hear.

Hear, hear, OK City!

Thanks for this thread, waterbuffalo! It has just made me realize that I don't need a belief system that is so tight that I have specific beliefs regarding every little situation in life. I don't have to have a formula to live by - I don't have to have a concrete belief set in stone - I can just take things as they come and deal with them then.

FREE AT LAST to THINK FOR MYSELF - and to change things if I find out I was wrong!! WOOO HOOO!!

I know, JJ. Loved what you said about freedom of will being more important than doing the right thing. Had to think about that one for a minute, but it totally makes sense!

Thanks for all your insights

Wow, Rascal. Yes, I remember those feelings, hoping they wouldn't spiritually pick up on the parts I took for bs.

The scholarship I always thought was shoddy. And, a lot of what was taught sometimes made me think they taught it not because it was the truth, but because it was different than the way any other group taught the particular subject.

The part I really, really bought into more than anything else was the family of God concept. That really made sense to me and in my early years believed the way had it right--mainly because I'd never seen it really live anyplace else. Certainly not in the church I was brought up in. People did help each other out in my own family, but I never experienced anyone from the church coming over helping out if mama was in the hospital or anything like that. So, what I saw amongst the believers I believed was real.

Artists often describe their creativity as "coming" to them. They work and they produce, and there are moments of inspiration, clarity, awareness, illumination.

The term "knowing", where you "just know", or become clear on something. A "flow", of ideas, information, inspiration, etc.

That "Third Track" is that part of our lives that we develop that's less tangible than what we practice and learn by rote or repitition, yet it's there running down the middle of the "two tracks" we run along day after day. It becomes clearer as we go along, or can become clearer. It's always there, anyway, whether we see it and rely on it or not. It's another way of viewing that part of our lives that's "spiritual", and in a way that doesn't separate it - as in "god's out there somewhere" - but includes it, as "god's in here, right here".

Socks, I think things do just come to us. That's what creativity is or inspiration, imo. It happens with a lot of teachers to help students--to teach them something in a certain way so they can understand the material. I've always hated jobs that require no creativity or inspiration--"just do A,B,C, and D, and do it this way" has always turned me off. I'd go home at the end of the day exhausted feeling completely depleted of strength from doing work that had no meaning (for me anyway).

Coulda been. It was definitely a control issue.

I'm usually sad when hearing people divorce, but not when she got away from him.

Now I am not sure exactly WHAT I believe... still working through all of that in my head since we didn't leave all that long ago. There are a few things I do believe...

I believe that God exists and He loves.

I believe that freedom of will is more important than doing the right thing.

I believe that it is ok to not know the answer to everything.

I believe that truth can be found everywhere if you open your eyes.

I believe that no one is any more important or better than anyone else.

I believe in the two great commandments - love God and love your neighbor as yourself.

Wow. How cool is that?

Can't say I disagree with you on any of them, JJ. THANKS!

Agreed waysider, mc, and dooj.

How stupid would that have looked for an adult woman to sit in a man's lap for "counseling" and in a public place on top of that????

Yes, he did try to bully me into doing it--something like he was my leadah and the right thing for me to do was, oh gosh, I think he used the submit word. How funny is that?

He really wanted me to get heat over that from the CC, but I think it backfired on him.

So, dooj, you think he was jealous because I asked his wife's advice about something and not his?

I was happy when she divorced his azz couple yrs. later. He was a creep.

I love the thread on labyrinths because unraveling the maze in our minds placed there by twi while we’re in recovery can be daunting.

For example, I’ve noticed that some posters consider themselves to be above falling for say the sexual predator piece, or piece A, but don’t stop long enough to consider that they fell hook, line, and sinker for the “earthly family” piece, or piece G, so to speak. Earthly Family? As if “believers” (twi followers, not the other Christians—piece C, let’s call it) were our true family. For gawd’s sake, our family is our family.

And while we’re being holier than thou about not being in debt, let’s call that piece U, we don’t realize that placing ourselves in subjection to another adult who was oh so happy to rule over us (let’s call that piece H) and in reality was never in any way, shape, or form a true bishop or elder, was man-pleasing and wrong.

I fell for a lot of the pieces, including the “earthly family” and “submitting to unholy ldrship” and many others.

What pieces did you fall for?

VACATION!

Sounds like you did the right thing for you, JJ. How cool that you "...faded into the background by moving a few times... it was a slow transitition for us. But I think that is what I needed to be able to really think clearly on the subject."

My ex-hubs and I didn't answer our Corps assignment letter to accept/reject. We did about the same thing as you after we moved--just left but didn't notify anyone at HQ. A few mos. later they wrote us to tell us we were dropped from what I understand. I was not interested enough to read the propaganda letter since we'd already dropped them.

I'm thinking that VP was very careful about who he "shared with." Perhaps all the more so since he was caught before, if reports of his being booted from the denomination are true. In the heyday of TWI, there were many women to choose from, and sadly, he chose those most vulnerable at that time.

His modus operandi seemed to go like this:

1. Look for a pretty young woman -- under-18 is okay
   
2. Check her background for vulnerabilities -- if she's Corps, her "From Birth to the Corps" should provide plenty of information.
   
3. Do something provocative, but defensible, and see how she reacts
   
4. Give her a privilege that will provide an opportunity for her to be alone with you
   

Interesting discussion, shazdancer. Brings back a memory from first year in residence that always puzzled me. At the time it really pi@@ed me off. I was in the BC's twig that block and the BCs happened to be a married couple. First of all, I don't believe the wife was involved in a swinging lifestyle, but then, I never suspected any of them...

I asked the wife a question one day and she said I had to talk to _____ about that. So, the next day, she called me over between classes and told me it was ok for me to talk to him then. A lot of people were milling around and ____ called me over and said his wife told him I wanted to talk. Quite frankly, I was wondering what the big deal was about and didn't particularly like or respect him--partly because he came across as not very bright. So, I went into it not really needing or wanting his advice, but kinda had to since I'd asked wifey the day before. She was intelligent, caring, and it had entered my mind that they were BCs because of her, not him.

The BC guy called me over and said he'd heard I wanted to talk. I told him it was nothing that important and I thought I already had my answer, but thanked him for his concern. I can't remember what the question was because we ended up having an argument, the result of which I had to appear before one of the Corps Coordinators.

What was my infraction? BC guy insisted that I come closer and sit on his lap while we talked. I told him I no longer needed to talk, but he became irate when I refused to sit in his lap and talk anyway. When he continued to insist using a fake "caring" voice and wanted to know why I wouldn't do it, I said it wasn't appropriate to sit in a married man's lap. His wife was standing right there, and I could have misread her body language, but sensed that she agreed with me and was glad I'd refused his advances. That was one time my radar was loud and clear and there was nothing he could say to talk me into it.

Later that day, wifey appeared to tell me I had to talk to PP about what had happened??????? wtf was up with that? Anyway, next day BC guy was there and PP said from what he understood I didn't want to sit in BCs lap so he just shrugged with a funny look on his face and said he supposed I just didn't want to sit in BCs lap....and that was it.

At the time, I just thought it was about his "I'm the ldr and you'll do what I say" attitude, but the lap business always puzzled me.

Was he pimping, or was he just plain stupid?

I did talk about an unhappy family life growing up in my autobiography, but there was never any sexual abuse. Could the powers that were have thought I was leaving that part out and decided to give me a try anyway?

Amazing...thank you!

Happy BD, sweetie!

(((((WG)))))

I understand. That's why I no longer go to church.

You'll look around one day and not even remember what twi taught, I'm sure.

For families like mine who have at least one control freak sibling, I think it is wonderful if the parents plan their funerals. That should make it easier to just say that you want to go along with your parents wishes and hopefully eliminate any arguments.

So, I'm FOR parents or anyone planning their own funerals.

Mister P-Mosh, love your idea!

Perhaps the Beatles were inspired when they sang the words, "love is all we need" on the Sargent Pepper's album.

Agreed, Oeno :-)

Suda, I agree with you.

I was thin most of my life. I rarely ate carbs or sweets.

Now, I'm 20 lbs. heavier. Now, I eat carbs and sweets.

For some reason, I can't quit eating carbs and sweets. :)

They really are comfort food.

I know I need to stop, but can't seem to do it for more than a couple of days.

Thanks for the info. It really works for people who want to lose weight.

I must say that I believe that too. Yet, if we have evidence that our earliest human relatives bones were found in Africa and not in the biblical Garden of Eden (southern Iraq), that if the world's tectonic plates moved at such speed to place the continents where they are now the resulting devastation from earthquakes, volcanism and tsunamis would have done us in like the dinosaurs and the arguments that Creationists can make are becoming fewer and fewer...what does that portend for the biblical proposition that there was an Original Sin by one man that had to be expunged by a Redeemer?

Oeno, first of all, I wonder sometimes what your IQ is. You are very smart. That said, would you mind rephrasing that question in layman's terms? Thanks in advance. I'm confident that you've made some wonderful points that many could learn from, but got lost trying to separate the interesting information from the question.

Ron, lovely pictures. Your town looks like a little slice of heaven on earth.

Love the old car...sweet.

What a mess. Thanks for filling in the blanks, DW

Actually, he was visiting at our home. I'd disobeyed him on some whim of his; he announced that I needed to be punished. My parents permitted it.

And thanks for the support. Sharing this does scare me, but I don't want to make this all about me -- but I wanted to offer a perspective of what it can be like to offer a personal history and have it questioned. I'm not saying that it's bad to question stuff, because questioning is the essence of good critical thinking... But I think that it is a good idea to consider how, when and why...

Yes, but not when someone shares a personal narrative--it's not appropriate then. If a person is not truthful, they'll reveal themselves. It's not hard to detect. I have no problem believing your experience, Cakes. This reminds me what a psychologist said about OJ's book. He said the reason he believes OJ did it was because he changes voices when he gets to the actual murder part. He then goes into very vivid details and talks about what things smelled like and very minute things that people can remember when they've actually committed a crime.

You just reminded me of something that happened the first time I ate with believers one warm summer day. This was before my indoctrination, I had been to maybe two twig fellowships, and was still questioning everything, and my bs radar was still intact.

A single mother with a probably three year old son was at the table where I was eating. She had long dark hair and he was dark haired also and seemed like a very sensitive child. The next thing I know, she takes a wooden spoon and starts whacking the child and starts quoting a verse about obeying.

The child was very jumpy and had a nervous twitch because I surmised after closer observation that he was anticipating his next whack all through the meal. She probably went through this five or six times. I felt like jerking that piece of wood she was beating him with out of her hand and beating her with it so she'd know how it felt because I'd always felt it was wrong to beat children. The thing is, I reasoned, I'd have to have gotten a board to hit her with to make it comparable in size to what the child was feeling and experiencing physically and psychologically.

I commented on it and the believer beside me told me that was how they did it at HQ and quoted the verse about raising up a child. The child was thin and it was clear he didn't enjoy meal time.

Since when are three year olds expected to have the table manners of adults, I thought?

Shine on, girl! This reminded me of Jet's Shine On lyrics:

And if the moon had to runaway

And all the stars didn't wanna play

Don't waste the sun on a rainy day

The wind will soon blow it all away, ya

So many times I planned

To be much more than who I am

And if I let you down

I will follow you 'round until you understand

That if the moon had to runaway

And all the stars didn't wanna play

Don't waste the sun on a rainy day

The wind will soon blow it all away, ya, oh ya

When the days all feel the same

Don't feel the cold or wind or rain

Everything will be okay

We will meet again one day

[ Shine On lyrics found on http://www.completealbumlyrics.com ]

And I will shine on, for everyone

So please don't cry

Although I leave you here this night

Where I go how far I don't know

But I will always be your light

That if the moon had to runaway

And all the stars didn't wanna play

Don't waste the sun on a rainy day

The wind will soon blow it all away, ya, oh ya

When the days all seem the same

Don't feel the cold or wind or rain

Everything will be okay

We will meet again one day

I will shine on, for everyone

Shine on, for everyone

When the stars all look the same

Don't feel the cold or wind or rain

Everything will be okay

We will meet again one day

I will shine on, for everyone

Shine on, for everyone

Kit, I love that account because it is so balanced--rare indeed for War Between the States accounts, but thankfully, more have been forthcoming in recent years.

Especially significant, imo, because the water source remains today as a continuing testimony to what the Lord will do when his people call upon his name.

I would love to hear from WD regarding his experience when someone went to jail for a crime they didn't commit or something along those lines

thank you

WD, I wasn't sure if you saw ex's request....I'd love to hear about it, too. :)