waterbuffalo

Happy Birthday, Raf!!!

I'm doing a medically supervised diet using OptiFast shakes. The 6 shakes a day give you all of your daily nourishments. I drink at least a half gallon of liquid a day and am limited to 12 oz of caffeine a day. It is less than 1000 calories a day. www.optifast.com

The liquid diets sound great and I think I could stay on one.

The only thing that bothers me is I knew someone who did lose a lot of weight on a liquid diet and had to have her gall bladder removed, the emergency doctor said, as a result of it.

So, maybe they've fixed whatever caused those things by now. Hope so.

Radar, Happy Birthday, Cutiepie!

Not to sound like a broken record (I've mentioned this recently on other threads)...but if you believed the snow on the gas pumps story, you pretty much bought into the whole deal.

...and it's worth mentioning that as easy as it was to swallow the whole taco, it's just as easy to dismiss it as being bogus.

Groucho, hi. I did believe the snow on the gas pumps story, lol! Mainly because I'd see miracles in nature before.

But, I didn't buy into a lot of other things :)

I gave my copy away to MGraeser. The reason why I liked it so much was that it wasn't along the lines of simply get over it, or even necessarily restoration. It took into account anger and the fact that this isn't an overnight process.

I'll see what I can do about getting you a copy. It'll be a while as I'm taking a grueling class right now and time is pretty valuable.

That does sound good! How kind of you to offer, but I'll check at the library and see if they have it :-)

Here's a great forgiveness book. I thought it would be a great addition to the CES bookstore and gave my copy to MG. I'm going to get another as it was a great book.

Tzaia, what did you enjoy about this book?

How is it different from others on forgiveness that you've read?

I'm not sure if I can do steps books--as in the 9 steps to forgiveness--sounds too much like a formula.

Could I borrow yours? I don't spend money on books like that anymore.

WW! Happy BD :D

I am grieved by the Way International when I think of all the wounded and dead (I mean that literally) believers that have been deliberately sacrificed so that TWI leadership could keep hiding its nasty, stinky, and dirty laundry. And all the lies that the believers have been led to believe in order to keep the rotten house looking good, PAINTED TOMBS INDEED.

(EDITED FOR SPELLING)

Whited sepulchers, indeed!

They were the people they always "warned us" about (in the churches, they said):

In Lu 11:44 our Lord gives another turn to this figure of a grave: "Ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them." As one might unconsciously walk over a grave concealed from view, and thus contract ceremonial defilement, so the plausible exterior of the Pharisees kept people from perceiving the pollution they contracted from coming in contact with such corrupt characters.

Whited sepulchers site

Thanks, dmiller. The music is very soothing.

So this is my angel encounter. Barely believable. Certainly not apparently life-saving, but at time time of pre-Greasespot Cafe, pre Trashnet, and the thread of my life was unraveling. My angel encounter refreshed my heart that the Lord had not turned Himself away from me.

Sweet.

Thanks, Water Buffalo - yup, that Jackson Browne song fits us all to a T.....And I agree - Don't Worry was - and still is one of the good guys - I sure hope he or anyone else doesn't interpret my post as a slight against him. I just wanted to say that anyone with even the best of intentions was fighting a losing battle from within the system.

Right. It astonishes me that someone in DW's position didn't know. But, I believe him and it helps me to believe that most people didn't know since he, of all people, didn't know for the majority of his involvement with the "ministry." It helps alleviate the shame, for lack of a better word, of having been involved with and used by such an organization. Having said that, the joy of having helped a number of people, even preventing one girl from commiting suicide one night with my WOW sister, are the kind of things I can still be proud of. I just don't talk about my involvement, ever, because of not wanting anyone to ask me the name of the ministry, lol.

"Hindsight is 20/20" …I'll say!!!! After reading your post and mulling over the rest of this thread, a couple of verses kept popping up in my head.

Matthew 9:17 NASB

"Nor do people put new wine into old wineskins; otherwise the wineskins burst, and the wine pours out and the wineskins are ruined; but they put new wine into fresh wineskins, and both are preserved."

Matthew 15:14 NASB

"Let them alone; they are blind guides of the blind. And if a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

Like everyone else, I like to play Quantum Leap and troubleshoot my TWI experience with what I know and believe now…IMHO, the reason any therapeutic methods failed was due to having the sights aimed at symptoms and not the causes. For if indeed the heart of the problem was targeted – I believe the changes necessary to resolve the issues would have caused the organization as we know it to cease from existence.

I think any noble "therapeutic" efforts from within the confines of the TWI paradigm fell short on two counts: we were all blind leading the blind AND no one addressed TWI's problematic core belief system…I think most folks who left that insanity were surprised by how much clearer they saw the nature of the beast once the blinders [mindset] began to fall awayI believe a healthy paradigm and the TWI mindset are incompatible – and pouring a healthy dose of honesty, compassion, humility and sanity into that old wineskin will just make it burst.

Great post, T-Bone. Running on empty comes to mind when I think of how it felt to counsel or to be counseled in wayworld. I'm sure Don did his best and probably no one could have done more in that situation.

Abi said:

The 'poor you will always have with you' is a paraphrasing from Deuteronomy. "For the poor shall never cease out of the land; therefore I command you to open your hand to your poor and needy brother."

ohmygosh. ohmygosh. They are such dirtbags. Then twi should have been giving to their followers because we were truly among the poor financially because of our affiliation with them.

during my in-rez corps "training", the only "pastoral" responsibilities vic taught us way corps as a group, were how to perform weddings and funerals........the concept of "pastoral" or "christian" counseling was never introduced or even mentioned! .......the only kind of "counseling" we were ever exposed to was via the advanced class or the several advanced class "specials" which were taught at "summer school" in 1974, 1975, and 1976, on "word of knowledge", "word of wisdom", and "discerning of spirits", respectively!.......and, as the quote recounted above demonstrates, vic regarded the fields of psychiatry and psychology with utter disdain and condescending disgust.......teaching basically, that both fields were "of the devil", and not to be relied upon to provide anything of benefit to "god's people"!

Just to clarify our credentials, as Don has stated, wc and clergy were not professional healthcare practitioners nor counselors. The above paragraph pretty much sums it up as far as our "training" or "credentials" go.

For example, I can hang out my shingle, claim to be an attorney, and "counsel" clients, if I can get them and even charge them. But, if one of my clients says he or she is going to kill someone and I don't inform the authorities, I can't be disbarred because I'm not an attorney!

Thanks for the topic, Don.

I never knew you and your family went through that--under house arrest. For gawd's sake. If I'd only known, I'd have been outta there b4 '89...I am sooooo sorry you all went through that.

As for buying into the ball of wax, I stuck around as long as I did because I made some wonderful friends, I enjoyed the small fellowships and learned a few useful things. I had read E.W. Bullinger before I ever heard of TWI and enjoyed being able to find others who studied and enjoyed Bullinger and I could wallow in it.

I learned a lot of useful things, too Ron. Way believers were smart (lots of 'em, anyway)!

The purpose of the Way Corps was stated to be to give students the opportunity to be around, and learn the ways of, the "man of God." He succeeded in that! So many Corps grads (not all, I know) held these attitudes about women being discussed here, and passed them on to others. But we should have seen it way back when. In The Way Living In Love, it was obvious the attitude VPW had towards women. Remember the story about meeting (I think it was) J. E. Stiles? Stiles' wife asked what he was going to do, or how long, and he said something like, "None of your damn business." And VP said his "respect" for Stiles was increased because of that! He said women were all liars and you couldn't trust them. We all just laughed it off when that book came out. Why did we not see through it? It amazes me, and embarasses me that I was part of that and accepted those attitudes. It made me "feel like more of a man" at the time. And I still catch myself copping attitude with my wife from time to time. Fortunately she's patient and understanding and forgiving. Good thing for me women are "more emotional" huh? If my wife were more "logical" she'd have either left me or clobbered me (or both!).

At least you can see through it, those attitudes, now--and recognize them and stop them.

Gosh, those statements bothered me at the time, too. Can't believe I was ever a part of it.

Happy Birthday, Mark!

Happy birthday, Acts2!

I thought about you when hubs sold the Martin (-:

DWBH said:

i submit this thread as one of information, and civil discussion regarding the topic.......i invite all former twi "clergy" who post here to contribute their own, personal experiences and understanding of twi "doctrines and practices" regarding the "proper" methodology of "pastoral" or "christian" counselling they were taught, as well as any who graduated from twi's various way corps training programs.........also, all those with questions or personal experiences pertinent to the topic, please feel free to contribute!!............input from any of you who currently practice as professionally trained and/or licensed counselors in whatever disciplines would be especially pertinent, imho!

Rhino, please forgive me, but I couldn't figure out which category you fall into on DWBH's thread. People who start threads sometimes address them to a specific audience. If I don't fall into that audience, I just read out of respect for the person who started the thread. So, I just wondered if you're a licensed counselor, former wc or clergy, or someone with a question or personal experience pertinent to the topic? Couldn't find any of the former in any of your posts....

name='Don'tWorryBeHappy' date='Jul 25 2008, 10:10 PM' post='424084']hi greasespotters!

i submit this thread as one of information, and civil discussion regarding the topic.......i invite all former twi "clergy" who post here to contribute their own, personal experiences and understanding of twi "doctrines and practices" regarding the "proper" methodology of "pastoral" or "christian" counselling they were taught, as well as any who graduated from twi's various way corps training programs.........also, all those with questions or personal experiences pertinent to the topic, please feel free to contribute!!............

however, as twi grew fairly rapidly during the decade of the 1970's and the early 1980's, the need for legitimate, professional counseling among the swelling ranks of the way corps, as well as the swelling ranks of twi outside the "root locales" became more and more obvious, indeed, even outright glaring!!........people with "problens" started coming out of the woodwork, and most were never "healed" outright by the "operation of the manifestations", let alone offered any legitimate, professional counseling of any kind!........

Yes, I remember being grossly underqualified to counsel anyone after graduating from the wc with only the Christian Counseling course with Jay Adams's book as the text, and as you mentioned corps classes on how to perform a wedding/funeral. Underqualified? No, actually unqualified to counsel anyone is the truth. That was/is one of my mantras here at gs. Thanks for exposing/discussing that with us here. It is nice to know someone higher up had a conscience and struggled to know what was the right thing to do at the time of my last years in rez.

I dont know how to categorize all the levels of dysfunction and the multitentacles of inner dynamic that drove TWI--but it was extremely complex-- and we were very highly trained into it.

...I dont know how many women Ive met at the shelter in horribly dysfunctional and abusive relationships. who cannot leave, or it takes them months or years because the their inner harmony is so dislodged that they cant figure out the obvious.

The inner dynamics are as real a part of the puzzle as the outward stuff..

Sure I'd like to see someone stand up-but if stumbling forward is the best they can do, it still beats laying down and doing nothing..ymmv

Oh gosh, great points, Mstar! Why did we stay? And, why did we stay that long? I'm sure the answers to those questions are different for each of us, but there has to be something in our family backgrounds that would help give us the answers, imo.

I remember when they came and did a teaching session at FLO.

(Cheryl something or other?)

Well, as a guy, I have a genetic obligation to seem unconcerned with matters such as this, TWI or no TWI.

One thing they talked about, however, caught my attention.

They said you should always wear or have in your possession something that is particularly unique to you such as a locket from your Grandmother or a pocket watch from your favorite uncle, etc.

Deep southern culture has something similar to this called a "Mojo Bag". It's a little sack that contains such items as a penny from the year of your birth along with staple ingredients that all mojo bags should have. It's part of your identity.

Personally, I always carry a harmonica with me, though it is usually out of sight and not always the same one. It's part of what makes me an individual rather than just another brick in the wall.

Try it some time. It's something you are aware of though no one around you has a clue.

It make you an "individual". I imagine that must have been very important back in the days of slavery.

Well, I know I deviated quite a bit from the intent of this thread and for that I apologize.

So cool, so cool, waysider--a mojo bag!

Nice derailment

Respect is one thing. Being expected to be a lap dog is another story.

Oh, yeah!

They had a reflections class where this married couple would pull people out of the audience and cut their hair however they wanted to. You were not supposed to refuse or have an opinion or preference.

They did it a little different when I was in rez. Oh gosh, the lady would point people out in the audience and then ask them if they wanted to be redone. We weren't forced. I distinctly remember one person, at least, declining and admiring him/her for saying no. Most people did look better afterwards, but was happy not to have been selected for their experiment myself.

Sad to hear that it deteriorated into that. Horrible!

The fact of the matter is that twi supported dissmissive treatment of wives, especially in public, mirroring VPW's example.  

It was a known quantity in the WC that the man shouldn't be "criticized" or "corrected" by his wife in front of others.  For bullies it was an enabler, and for those who were'nt, it turned some well intentioned new husbands into wife wranglers, so many just swallowed what they were taught and embraced the twi culture in this regard.  

Yeah, the "men" stuck together, didn't they?

"men"=whack jobs, control freaks, just to clarify--not talking about all or normal men