Mike

Lifted Up

Thank you SOOOO much for saving me of that weather task. I knew all the things that you witnesses were possible, but how could I have stated it as briefly as you? BRAVO

Shame on some of you GreaseSpoters for not having thought of this yourselves! Now you know why I distanced myself from YOUR snow job.

[This message was edited by Mike on January 01, 2003 at 10:48.]

WordWolf

The 5 years I cited was since I decided to totally believe Dr's claims to have God-breathed written revelation.

The 27 years prior to that I checked out VPW teaching against the existing scriptures.

As for tattered remnants, it's mostly in the areas that most threaten the devil that things get heavily tampered with. Things like the power, the mystery, Christ’s return, agape love over phileo, things like that. And it's more than just the earliest copies being botched. Many other things cause the scriptures to be "tattered" like language changes, culture changes etc. These other things obscure the meaning of what has survived.

The early copies were done by a reprobate church that had rejected Paul and the mystery. They were also under heavy persecution. They had no spiritual supervision, and they were inserting things like trintitarian formulas at a VERY early date. Because of the scarcity of evidence, we are only aware of some of these miscopies and forgeries that go back only so far. Even earlier copies have escaped modern detection as flawed, but there are indirect ways of seeing some, like profane literature that quotes even earlier texts, ones that are long gone. Then there are other forgeries that are totally obscured by time and chaos.

Have you ever wondered when the critical Greek texts were written? When was the ink still wet on the Stevens text?

Many to most grads are SHOCKED when they learn the dates of the critical Greek texts. Do you know when Stevens lived, or the other producers of critical texts? You can look it up in the introduction to your interlinear.

Do you know WHY the critical Greek texts were produced? Look it up: it's due to the GREAT variance in the ancient fragments. That's all we have from the ancient texts: fragments. What's worse is these fragments vary greatly one from another.

The earliest critical Greek text, the Stevens, had its ink still wet in 1550!

The purpose for the production of the critical texts was to fix, repair the variance problems, the tattered remnants of the ancient scriptures. And this was done in MODERN TIMES by scholars, almost all of which were trinitatarians. What’s worse is some were rank unbelievers. What’s STILL worse is some were of the wrong seed. And ladies, some were male chauvinist pigs. It was in style then, especially in the upper crust which these academics were.

Sure God had His infiltrators, but what percentage really worked with Him and for him?

So who do you trust? Trust these unknown scholars, some of whom could be FAR worse than even the most exaggerated horror stories we’ve heard of, even of Craig? Or trust Dr and PFAL? There’s a lot to think about.

Vertical L

look at the "fruit" of Jesus' ministry 2000 years ago. For 1500 years it was the Roman Catholic church only. Or maybe that wasn't his fault, but theirs?

You may have worked those books, BUT you didn't MASTER them like we were told to do in 1979, 81, 84, and 1985. That's how many times I found Dr telling us these things on tape. You dabbled, now you blame him for your falling short in receiving. I did this too, so I know how easy it is. It is possible to change and try again if the proper motivation is offered. That's my goal here.

I see a greater risk in placing my bet on a churchianity tradition that has failed for 2000 years to produce even ONE Christian who can do ALL the things Jesus Christ did and greater, plus invent a 3-headed god, plus many other horrors. I feel VERY safe. I chose this route very carefully and was totally aware of the risk.

[This message was edited by Mike on January 01, 2003 at 10:19.]

Vertical L.

we don't have those scriptures to go to. Only the tattered remnants. See my post titled "Feelings" for more data. I believe Jesus Christ made it available for Dr to receive these revelations. Don't you think he knows there are flaws in all the texts?

OCD#1

I say data because it's some truth and some facts. They're different.

[This message was edited by Mike on January 01, 2003 at 22:04.]

Mark S, you asked on the previous page if Dr ever taught unscripturally. Page 83 of the PFAL book says "Not all that Wierwille writes will necessarily be God-breathed."

The implication is that SOME writings ARE God-breathed. However SOME are not.

So some of his writing are authored by him via his senses understanding, and he, being human, HAD to have some things unscriptural in those. Consequently in speaking he had to be wrong even more.

So which of his teachings are God-breathed and which are not? GOOD QUESTION. It deserves a good investigation and lots of pondering. I've been working this for 5 years. May I suggest that you investigate this question with the same or greater vigor as you looked into the horror stories?

[This message was edited by Mike on January 01, 2003 at 10:17.]

On a more serious note.

Rafael, you wrote:

“The FACT that you are wrong about this is evidenced by the fact that NO ONE, not VPW, not LCM, not anyone else who ever knew or worked with VPW, has ever made the same claim.”

As RG posted months ago. I can document where VPW made MANY assertions that God taught him. Most are very subtle and hidden, some are more out in the open, and one is totally up front. This last one every grad here remembers, or will remember when I post it. I’ll get there soon as time permits. Meanwhile I want to thin out the number of threads I have to read and often respond to. You can ask RG if you want a preview. Maybe that’ll get him to look at them again and give them a little more thought than he did when I e-mailed him. There’s lots of data to get to.

THE COURT OF TRADITIONAL CHURCHIANITY IS NOW IN SESSION

ALL RISE

Prosecutor Rafael: I accuse you of holding the writings of VPW on par with the Bible itself, indeed ABOVE par with any version of the Bible we have available to us. I accuse you of exalting the words of VPW over the Word of God itself.

HOW DOES THE DEFENDANT PLEAD TO THESE CHARGES?

(A) HOLDING THE WRITINGS OF VPW ON PAR WITH THE BIBLE ITSELF:

Mike: Guilty Your DisHonor! But only SOME of his writings... and only if “the Bible itself” means as it was originally given by holy men of God as they spoke by the holy spirit. The “on par” I’m admitting to is in the sense that the same God REALLY authored both by giving revelation. In other words I believe that the giving of such revelation in written form did NOT die with the apostles as this court insists.

Prosecutor Rafael: Then you admit it. Fine.

HOW DO YOU PLEAD TO THE SECOND CHARGE?

(B) INDEED ABOVE PAR WITH ANY VERSION OF THE BIBLE WE HAVE AVAILABLE TO US

Mike: Guilty Your DisHonor! But I’m not alone in this. I’ll bet that almost every member of the jury here have “scratched out” sections in their versions of the Bible, and changed words that they know the translators botched, and other things that...

WE DONT WANT TO BE PREACHED AT HERE!

KEEP YOUR RESPONSES DOWN TO A THUMBNAIL.

Mike: But your dishonor.....

HOW EGOTISTICAL OF YOU ! YOU NEED HELP BOY!

HOW DO YOU PLEAD TO THE THIRD CHARGE?

© EXALTING THE WORDS OF VPW OVER THE WORD OF GOD ITSELF

Mike: On this third charge I’m NOT Guilty Your DisHonor! I exalt “The Word of God” that He, God, revealed by VARIOUS methods to VPW over only the corrupted man-made versions, translations, modern critical compilations, and ancient fragments that this court is limited itself to. In respect to your thumbnail injunction I’ll explain what I mean by “VARIOUS” on another thread.

NO! WE WANT EVERYTHING NOW, FAST!

Mike: But your DisHonor, some of these traditions are complicated, and it takes lots time and lots of unscrambling to get my data presented. There are quite a few thumbnails that all fit together to make a consistent picture. If one thumbnail is objectionable, it’s thrown out of court, even though the objection will be satisfied by a later thumbnail. Then that later one needs the first thumbnail to deal with its new objections. All the thumbnails fit neatly together and need to be considered as a whole, but this court does not allow this.

YOU ARE TOO WORDY! I TOLD YOU TO BE BRIEF.

Mike: But Your DisHonor, you say you want me to lay it all out, everything, to bring it on. Then when I try, you demand brevity. How do I .....

EGO EGO EGO! YOU THINK YOU KNOW IT ALL, DON’T YOU?

Mike: No Your DisHonor. I just had a really great teacher, and he had the best teacher, God Almighty.

WE’VE HEARD ENOUGH. YOU’VE PLEADED GUILTY IN TWO OF THE CHARGES. THERE’S NO NEED TO HEAR ANY MORE. WE KNOW IT ALL. WE FIND YOU GUILTY ON THE THIRD CHARGE BECAUSE YOU’RE GUILTY ON THE FIRST TWO. WE CAN’T TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY.

Mike: I appeal to a higher court! My brother Jay is a defense attorney, and the judge of that court is my daddy. They’re going to straighten you out, and make some changes in the leadership around here.

(to be continued)

Over the years I've often been in witnessing situations with people who attended conventional churches. I would try to show them the greatness of the epistles of Paul and that the good news of God THERE is greater than in the Four Gospels where Jesus speaks with red letters.

In response these people would often question the appropriateness of my "obsession" with Paul, and tell me that I was placing him on a level above Jesus Christ. This happened often and I had to constantly stress that it is GOD Who is important to me and that Paul was merely a messenger for Him, and that God's had an even better message at Paul’s time than He did during Jesus’.

My focus on Dr. Wierwille's teachings is very similar. What I've seen is that the work God wrought in his ministry is greater that what God was ABLE to do with the translators and scholars who work with the ancient scripture remnants. God was able to partially assist them, but because of MANY factors that blessing was only partial. As a result there is no authoritative critical text, translation, or version that we can go to. They are all approximations from 5-senses efforts.

God was able to go much farther with Dr because he was willing to take the heat of defying tradition and believing the revelation. That was one of his strengths. Why focus on weaknesses? I refuse to; not any more.

It's the MESSAGE that God got through in Dr's ministry that is my focus, not Dr himself. Besides, he’s dead now, and hero worship of a dead man is pretty abstract. I'd have a hard time commiting that sin even if I wanted to. There were many times that Dr's temperment was quite annoying to me.

I worship the God who gave these revelations. Aside from the written record God worked with Dr, what is there to respect in Dr that could be stretched into idolatry?

Haven't you ever been falsly accused of being a worshiper of Paul because you read and talked about the epistles more than the gospels? How did you handle such accusations?

Goey, you asked for some simple specifics some time ago. Here’s what I do NOT believe: That Dr is above God, or that Dr is above Jesus Christ. For you all to accuse me of this says to me your reading skills are lacking.

If you are going to accuse me of something, let’s get it a LITTLE more accurate. Accuse me of thinking that Dr’s books to us are on the same level of PAUL’s. That’s something you can attack me on. It's very anti-tradition. I’ll admit to it, but I’ll deny that this stand of mine is wrong. Let’s debate this, and not something I didn’t say and don't believe.

Thank you Sirguessalot! That saved me a lot of typing. I was tempted to copy and paste an entire page of "Jesus" vain repetions to parody the ridiculous demand to mention his "label." I resisted this temptation, but then you relieved me of it.

Actually one big reason I feel don't have to magnify what that perfect man did 2000 years ago is because you all already know THAT. In my attempt to serve some new data for consideration, I also decided to not mention anything I've learned in how to tie shoes. If there are any PFAL grads who don't know of the greatness of the Lord Jesus Christ, or any who can't tie their shoes, please e-mail me and I'll minister to you privately.

I say "label" because in Western culture that's all a name is: box number one on a driver's license, a mere string of ASCII characters. The spiritual name of Jesus Christ is much bigger than that, and if you do what Dr said to do, master the books, then you'll see the mind of Christ is what is in them. I'm CONSTANTLY pointing to his name (not so much his label) but it's veiled to those who got talked out of the Word and drifted into a counterfeit.

I am doing my best to DEMONSTRATE the name of Jesus Christ in my focus on God and His recent works to give us His Word again, in my attitude for service, and in my toleration of a host of insults.

Ok - Now you all that want to damn me for not mentioning the "Jesus" label enough can switch tactics and pile on me for identifying with him. Years ago I spent a lot of time witnessing to the SNL Church Lady types, but I never thought PFAL grads would sink to that level.

"Well now, isn't that SPAYshull! (smirk) Mike thinks he's Jesus Christ. He's just Sooo superior."

Hi Oldiesman. Do you like Do-Wop? I do.

I've been wanting to talk with you for a while. I've often seen your posts over the months and was always rooting for you.

I looked for your e-mail address but found none. My e-address is listet at GS. Could you send me a note sometime. No rush.

I agree about gullibility being a self-damaging trait. But I'm NOT advocating anyone adopt the gullibility exteme of the spectrum I mentioned. I'm advocating the healthy balance that avoids the exteme of gullibility. A little "willingness to believe" is good for experimental purposes, but a lot can lead one into the soup.

I also think the opposite extreme, skepticism, is equally self-damaging. A little skepticism is good to filter out baloney. But too tight a filter rejects truth also, and the total skeptic can learn no more.

Being trained as a scientist, I was taught that skepticism in science is a high art form. I say "art" because a good scientist must be able to spot something that's proven well enough to at least experimentally believe in it, just to see what happens.

Actually an extreme skeptic still believes something: he believes (withoout total proof) that he has it all.

Both careful believing and health skepticism are good in moderation. Either is bad in the extreme.

[This message was edited by Mike on December 29, 2002 at 13:32.]

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[This message was edited by Mike on December 29, 2002 at 12:37.]

This is only a quick response. More thorough ones are in the works. As I get more time in the weeks to come I'd like to answer many more points, and in much more detail.

Rafael, the reason I believe the first half of the 1942 promise ("I will teach you my Word like it hasn't been known since the first century...") is because I, myself, was a beneficiary of the second half of the promise("...if you will teach it to others.")

I also saw many other beneficiaries. Almost every single GS PFAL grad here, at one time, was in agreement with this until they got talked out of it.

Even the CES people have put into some of their fundamental, charter-like documents that Dr DID in fact get more Word distributed around the world than any effort since the first century IN ONE PLACE.

Many other places over the centuries could offer some elements of this same truth, but Dr was the first, AND ONLY to get it all together in one place.

One place will have SIT accurate, but they shove the idolatrous trinity down the throats of their adherents as a REQUIREMENT. The same is the case in ALL other places: some great truths with some total baloney mixed in their written doctrinal requirements.

I didn't start out believing Dr as God's chosen spokesman this way I do now. For each and every element of truth Dr taught me, I had to check it out. I started out as a totally skeptical scientist and I insisted on checking it all through to the best of my ability until I believed him on that one point. Then I’d move on to another point.

I did this for 27 years, at the time often envying many of you, who believed and jumped in with both feet immediately, much quicker than I was able to. But I will say this: every single element of truth Dr taught passed my tests during those 27 years.

So, it was only then, after the practical benefits were there and the checking out was relatively finished, ONLY THEN did I adopt this belief in Dr being God's spokesman. I tried my best to do it like the noble Bereans of Acts 17. They were more cautious and methodical in their believing.

I could never suggest or desire that any of you quickly believe everything I say either.

As I suggested to one of you privately yesterday, might I suggest taking things in the way the noble Bereans did with Paul in Acts 17? Now, I'm NOT comparing myself with the Apostle Paul! (Did I catch you thinking that way about what I just said?) The Bereans didn't know that Paul was going to go on to be a superstar. But they listened with an open mind, and THEN searched the scriptures DAILY whether they were true, and FINALLY they believed.

In other words, they did NOT believe on the first occasion. It took time; at least days. They were noble. I try to imitate that. I don't believe anything impulsively anymore. It's check, check, check, THEN believe, if it all checks out.

The noble Bereans ALSO did listen with open mind, and not a hostile, contrarian, investigative mind that’s already made up. That’s what happens here a lot: pro-VPW material is met with an immediate attack, not an open mind. Then the opposite tack is often employed here in how anti-VPW material is greeted with open arms and never investigated with the same scrutiny as the pro.

Research Geek, who is well respected here, posted a spectacularly excellent page on rules of logic a few weeks ago where he complains that these rules are OFTEN being broken here. So, those of you who accepted what he said there, please don’t bug me about my complaint of the same. Double standards greatly diminish the credibility of those who hold them.

So, Rafael, for me it does NOT all boil down to a blind belief in the 1942 promise. Just the opposite, belief in the 1942 promise, for me only occurred after 27 years of hard work and careful thinking. It was the benefits and the fit that inspired my “carefully cultivated a set of rather extreme beliefs” the 1942 promise being one of them.

There's such a fine balance between gullibility and skepticism. Somewhere in between is a balanced approach and it seems the noble Bereans got it. Let’s aspire to higher standards.

Agape,

Mike

[This message was edited by Mike on December 29, 2002 at 12:34.]

[This message was edited by Mike on December 29, 2002 at 13:02.]

Below is a set of letters consisting of a short note from an old friend of mine, and my response to her. She's a Corps grad, but I've changed her name. This essay on Dr's writings picks up where an earlier essay (titled "Discovery") that appeared on this thread left off. This one deals with our proper response to the "discovery" of Dr's Last/Lost Teaching. Should we, or should we not obey Dr's instructions to master the PFAL books? That's what it all boils down to.

Agape,

Mike

****************************************************

Dear Mike,

I really think that going back to the original

God-breathed Word is where to go. I feel what you

are doing with Dr. Wierwille's writings is shooting

darts, missing the main target. Get back to the

main focus, the Bible, and use Dr's books as he

originally intended, as aids to understanding the

Bible, not as bibles in themselves.

Much Love,

Linda

Dear Linda,

I hear you. I understand your feelings. I have felt them myself many times. When I look around at what everyone else is doing, there sometimes seems to be a ring of fringe wackiness in some of what I've said about Dr's books and the mastering of them. It is sometimes very uncomfortable to me as well as to you.

What you've said lines up well with everything we came to understand from our training in The Way, as well as with a time honored tradition of our modern culture of denominational churches. However, I believe what we originally received from our training was only partial. Our understanding still needs to mature and progress from a sense knowledge understanding to a spiritual understanding. This is what Dr's mandate to master the books is really all about.

One thing we were taught is that tradition is often engineered by the god of this world, and that any challenges to tradition with the truth of God's Word are met with retaliation by the adversary. Splitfoot has all sorts of methods to generate feelings of trepidation in the mind of a tradition challenger. That is why I'm bracing myself against these uncomfortable feelings and pressing on in the direction of PFAL book mastery. This is what we were instructed to do by Dr. Wierwille in his dying last words to us.

God has nine manifestations with which to interact with us, and there is nothing ever preventing God from saying to a believer "Take a note. Write this down." I think God did precisely that with Dr because Dr often said so, and we enjoyed the resultant profit immensely. How else are we to handle those statements of Dr's on pages 116 and 34 of the Green Book? On page 83 of the PFAL book he even uses the phrase "God-breathed" to describe SOME of his own writings, albeit well hidden in complicated grammar.

Such "given-by-revelation-from-God" kind of writings are WORTH mastering. That's what Dr. said we were to do in his dying last words to us: to master certain things which he (really God) wrote. I intend to obey, feelings or not.

Dr. said "Thus saith the Lord" on many occasions in his writings and tapes. I just mentioned three. There are many others. What are we to do with them? Ignore them? Not me! Not any longer.

At 10:02 AM 9/17/99 -0400, you wrote:

>Dear Mike, I really think that going back to the original

>God-breathed Word is where to go.

This is impossible without PFAL. We don't HAVE the original God-breathed Word to go to. With the King James, a Concordance, Interlinear, etc. you can go only as far as the PFAL principles still residing in your mind will take you. How much has leaked out? How much of the total did you get in the first place? How much was actually mastered? A partial mastery of PFAL, partially leaked out over the years, means you can't make it all the way back to the original Word Of God. How far do you want to go?

I want to go all the way, so I must obey Dr's final instructions. I'm not happy with a partial access to the original Bible. I'm going to master the GOD-BREATHED teaching of the Bible we got in PFAL so that I am ABLE to feed from the original Bible in a God-designed way, not in a traditional way.

In the class (segment 16, page 127 in the book) Dr. says:

"No translation, no translation, and I want you to listen

very carefully; for no translation, and by the way that's

all we have today at best are translations. No translation

may properly be called The Word Of God... ..no translation!"

Then a minute later he repeats:

"Now I said that no translation, no translation, let alone

a version, no translation may properly be called The Word

Of God..."

Then several minutes later he hits it again:

"And in this class on Power For Abundant Living, when I

refer to The Word Of God I may hold the King James Version

or I may hold some other version and point to it; I do not

mean that version. I mean that Word of God which was

originally given when holy men of God spake as they were

moved by the Holy Spirit."

So to the opening of your letter: "I really think that going back to the original God-breathed Word is where to go" I must agree. That's where I want to go. That is the goal. However, the God provided method for accomplishing that goal (promised in 1942) is to take PFAL and then to master it as we were instructed.

The method which denominational tradition provides us for research is an assortment of various printed versions. But no translation may properly be called The Word Of God, let alone a version. That means translations and versions are counterfeits! They may be close at times, but counterfeits none the less!

This is such an important concept that Dr. says the phrase "no translation" a full 8 times in the first couple of minutes into that segment to drive it home. The adversary has had 2000 years to damage manuscripts, languages, traditions and cultural customs, thus rendering ALL versions horribly impotent. Good for beginner students, but lousy for learning the power.

We were taught that the moment we add a word, subtract a word, or change a word then we no longer have The Word left. The process of translating manuscripts and then producing a version involves MUCH addition, subtraction, and changing. In a translation almost ALL the words are changed!!!

Without the necessary revelation of PFAL all versions are counterfeits, and all students of such are doomed to mere churchianity with no real power to do all the things Jesus Christ did. An occasionally answered prayer does not compare to "all nine all the time."

Some versions of the Bible are useful and essential to beginning students of the scriptures, but we, mature PFAL grads, should be way past that stage of development. If God wanted us to be mastering some version, then why did Dr tell us to master something else? Do we want to bet everything that Dr's last words to us were worthless?

Oh sure, we grads can still get lots of warm feelings, and also some practical advice from the KJV or NIV, but the adversary's targets for damage in the text are where we might learn the full power. Plus, without PFAL mastery, our winging it in rightly dividing our KJV version may go into total error. We don't have that 1942 promise addressed to us like Dr did. What are we going to find in our own research that God didn't already show Dr in that 40 plus year project?

There's no way we would have ever gotten to SIT, Interpretation, and Prophecy without God's extra-biblical help via the revelation of PFAL. Likewise, there's no way we're ever going to master the other manifestations by mastering any English version. It's the PFAL books we were told to master.

I have to compare two feelings. Let's call them (A) and (B):

(A) The discomfort of not being able to do all the things Jesus Christ did and greater, but having the nice feelings of playing along with old denominational traditions and working primarily with culturally accepted "versions."

(B) The discomfort of defying tradition and following the instructions of my father in the Word, mastering PFAL, and THEN having a real mastery of the Bible along with the full power.

I'll take the latter (B); it's only temporarily uncomfortable.

To accept the former (A) means to ignore all those "Thus saith the Lord" statements of Dr's, and to ignore his dying last words to us. That is why I write these things. So that people can make this decision fully knowledgeable of the implications. If you study Dr's Last/Lost Teaching you will see he is saying "Pick (B)"

You also wrote:

>I feel what you are doing with Dr. Wierwille's writings is shooting

>darts, missing the main target. Get back to the main focus, the Bible, and

>use Dr's books as he originally intended, as aids to understanding the Bible

The use of these books as aids to understanding the Bible is almost exactly what I am doing in all my activities. The only difference is I'd rephrase your last line: "use Dr's books as He (God) originally intended." I'd stress that these aids are from God Himself (1942 audible promise) not merely VP Wierwille (Green Book p.116).

All versions are man-breathed aids to understand the original Bible. What we must get clear on is the difference between man-breathed aids to the Bible and God-breathed aids to the Bible. Which of those two would you choose? God has blessed us with the latter, PFAL. Because this aid is directly from God, it is pure, trustworthy, worth mastering, and irreplaceable. We must accept no substitutes.

But unfortunately, mere substitutes are exactly what almost the entire body of PFAL grads have been seduced into. Most have drifted into KJV idolatry, and alternative clone classes have abounded all over. We've all walked away from the loaf, and are picking at crumbs! I include myself in there, but I'm going back to the loaf, the bread of life from God, baked fresh in rather recent decades, and right before our very eyes. We just got talked out of it... temporarily.

Again quoting from your letter:

>Get back to the main focus, the Bible, and use Dr's books

>as he originally intended, as aids to understanding the Bible,

>not as bibles in themselves.

I agree that getting back to the Bible is the main focus. It's just that God's method, initiated in 1942, for doing this is PFAL. The God-breathed PFAL writings pave the way to the Bible like no mis-copies/translations/versions of men. We can't wing it on our own, merely with our English versions, concordances and interlinears, and then expect to manifest God's intended results of full power.

Even Bullinger missed SIT by miles and he worked deep into the Greek and Hebrew!

Partial PFAL mastery equals partial power. Full, spiritual PFAL mastery equals full power. I still want to raise the dead. Don't you?

When I returned to a serious study of Dr's books I found out very quickly that I had never come even close to really mastering them. This has been very humbling, but also very delightful. We are sitting on a diamond mine, just waiting to be worked... or should I say re-worked?

Agape,

Mike

I just awoke not too long ago and saw all the many posts I want to reply to, especially yours. However I must go to work soon. Later I'll return to try and get more specific about responding.

Until then, Goey and others, I'm going to post a letter that may answer some several points at once. It's long, again, and I'm sorry for those who don't like that, especially for those with a handicap in their "PgDn" finger.

This letter of mine was posted by Alfakat several months ago on the "WOV" thread, but it went through several re-writes since I sent the earlier version years ago. I noticed that you all feel accommodating to writers editing their own works after posting, so I'm essentially doing essentially the same.

I'll be thinking of you all as I slog off to the salt mines. I hope you enjoy it. Talk amongst yourselves, and have some "coo off fee"

WordWolf wrote:

"I'm still mildly surprised that you honestly think that God's resources on earth are so meager, and his plans that poorly-thought-out, that ONLY vpw could have gotten the job done, that ONLY vpw could teach the Bible to all those people"

Yes, I honestly think that. God's resources are sufficient, but they don't look that way to us from the 5-senses. Remember who governs the 5-senses realm, not God.

Remember that God had to wait some 4000 years for one person to believe the promise of Genesis 3:16 and God tried and tried to get the mystery throuugh to Peter but Peter wasn't big enough yet. God had to work with a man that most Christians of the time didn't like, Saul. Probably many said the same kinds of things about Paul that we hear on GS about Dr about Paul.

I thank the ladies also. Maybe they are onto the fact that I am trying to help. A little women’s intuition?

I DID get negatively impacted myself. It took a lot of Word, love, and time to properly arrange my priorities. Assessing the relative strengths of positive impact and negative impact is not easy. It takes GREAT desire to get over it. I know!

Remember what Jesus said to the lame man who was sitting by the pool to get healed? He ASKED if he WANTED to get healed. Here he was lame for years and years, and sitting by a healing pool, YET Jesus felt a need to ask if he WANTED to be healed.

I know Dr had to have sin in his life. I know from God's perspective all sin is sin and the greatest is to love something more than God. We all have committed the greatest sin loads of times. I also know that from OUR perspective some sin hurts others in varying degrees. As we all rise up to get clear on what we want, get healed, and get as good at forgiving as Jesus was to Judas then this will no longer be a problem.

If, for something we can't forgive Dr, who brought us God's Word like no other could have, then who CAN we forgive. I think that we all will sooner or later WANT to get healed of everything that bugs us. However, we get tricked into getting "comfortable" in our pain. Jesus knew this and had to get the man into the desire mode. This is part of what Dr was talking about in the “needs and wants” area.

QQ - You're getting closer to the truth. Keep thinking through the details, but take off you Grease brain.

George, that's an OPINION not a fact.

It's only factual that a lot of people report it as such. I don't believe the details of those reports. Sorry. There was a time when I did. Now I don't because I dug a little deeper.

May I grind some pepper for you, mam?

George,

You also wrote: "Why not take a break from your "Prophet of the true MOG" status for a few months and see things from a little different perspective for awhile? The change just might do you some good."

What makes you think I haven't already tried that? I did. For almost ten years. Been there, done that.

No, George. If you read my posts more carefully you'll see I'm saying:

"Don't waste my time and yours with the facts. I've already seen them all, long before you did, and I've FINALLY made up my mind."

I'm amazed at how impatient everyone is to get all this in a thumbnail. It reminds me of 1987, when there was almost no info flowing, but within months everyone had made up their mind which splinter (or not) to be a part of. With relatively no information decisions were made back then that have never been reexamined, only built on, or piled on. I'm glad I was taught to take it slower. It sad how much information was lost or never considered by those who crystallized their stand on emotion and/or whichever leader happened to tickled their fancy.

In those early days I would always shop around for info because I wanted to decide more carefully. I noticed that no one here in SD did that except for one other person. When JL from CES would blow into town once every year, me and that one other person would always attend. We two would always be the only people from the other major camp, the GeerSplinters here in SD, as we mostly attended those fellowships at that time. No CES people would talk to GeerSplinters, and no GeerSplinters would talk to CESers.

Everyone huddled into a quickly decided upon group, and them the leaders would tell them to M&A all other grad groups. The same applied to the Craigites here, but they were in much smaller numbers. The same applies to most GreaseSpotters in my opinion. Lots of digginto their positions, little knowledge of what the others are doing. I urge patience and info gathering.

Exy - I'm not done yet. Be patient. There's TONS more info to lay out.

Dr's Last/Lost Teaching was quite interesting when it was first shown to me five years ago. For me, this was a great personal discovery. A real eye opener! I didn't discover it, it came to me. This reminds me of how we were often taught to think "I didn't really find God, He found ME."

As the years went by I continued to see more, especially as I studied certain items in the record Dr left us: tapes, magazine articles, and books. The implications of Dr's last teaching are voluminous, and to just give you a taste of what I'm talking about, I'm including below an essay that evolved from e-mailings with friends about this teaching. Several more letter/essays have developed in these recent years after I "discovered" the teaching, and I'd be happy to share them with you also, if you so desire.

So many people wonder what the heck happened to our wonderful ministry, me included. This is my feeble attempt to describe what I've found out so far. If you have better information, then I'm all ears. I've attempted to find out about our family of believers:

(1) what went right originally,

(2) what went wrong years ago, and

(3) what we can do about it right now.

This particular letter/essay below is about "The Joy of Serving" and some of its implications. I don't claim to have the entire story, nor can I say all the details are perfect. I had to guess in places. It's the implications that are more solid for me, and are much more positive. I'm open to any feedback or correction on these historical details.

This letter is on the second topic: (2)"what went wrong," so it's touches on a few negatives, but I try to do it in a constructive way, and it also leads into the other topics that are quite positive.

*************************************************

Dear Oscar,

It's very exciting to discuss with you the relatively recent discovery of Dr. Wierwille's Last/Lost Teaching. The reason I call it "lost" is because 90 to 95 percent of all PFAL grads never saw it, and the remainder never REALLY carried it out, including me. I've conducted a poll around the country for several years now, and most grads think Dr's last teaching was "The Hope." This was, indeed, his last teaching at Way Headquarters in New Knoxville, however, about two weeks later he gave his VERY last public teaching in Scotland, titled "The Joy of Serving."

Now here's where the story gets murky, and I'm still trying to find out exactly what happened next. I've asked many of our former leaders around the country for details, but few have been cooperative. So far what I know is that the tape of Dr's last teaching was somewhat ignored, possibly for a year or more. A short clip of it appeared on the Corps tape sent out two days after Dr's death. The whole tape was eventually played for the clergy by Chris Geer, but I think it was a year later, during the turmoil of 1986.

Somewhere around 1986, some circles of Corps people lightly distributed the tape around, and it was listened to by some, even repeatedly, for a short time. However, in my efforts to investigate all this 12 years later, I found not one report of any organized efforts to execute Dr's mastery instructions by anyone at all. I found several people who thought they themselves had already mastered PFAL, and so they argued the teaching didn't apply to them. Few leaders paid it proper regard, and even fewer relayed to the body of believers it's contents, and STILL EVEN FEWER actually carried it out...really none at all.

It's plain to see that TWICE we are instructed to master certain things: the foundational and intermediate classes and the class collateral books. Interestingly enough he did NOT say to master any translation or version of the Bible, nor the Advanced Class, nor any Corps training.

Now what does "master" mean? That's a big subject. In another letter I'll tell you how we have searched the books and magazines to see how Dr used that word in other settings. That gets pretty exciting. But for now let's focus on a different aspect of this question. Did Dr tell us in his final instructions to master the words he SPOKE the tapes of the class?

This is easy to answer. At the time Dr did his last teaching, the two classes Dr mentioned we must master were not generally available in tape form. The tapes were highly secured, they all had serial numbers on them, and HQ kept track of where all of them were. I worked in Tape Duplicating for two years, so I know this first hand. Those tapes were highly restricted to only trusted leadership, and few ever dared to make a bootleg copy for themselves. If they ever did, they kept it a tight secret.

No, Dr was not telling us to master the tapes. Mastering the Foundational and Intermediate Classes means working the syllabus materials that were available. Dr explicitly stated this in the prior year on the Sound Out'84 tapes. Thus the focus of our mastery was to be on the written materials in our possession. The books and magazines we received as grads then are the main component of Dr's instructions, and should be the focus of our mastery efforts.

These are Dr. Wierwille's dying last words TO ALL OF US, especially to leaders who mistakenly THOUGHT they had already mastered these materials by 1985. In addition to their significance of being his LAST words, he also said these things TWICE. Evidently a PARTIAL mastery (as many top leaders seemed to have accomplished) was not enough. It was also very important that we graduate in our mastery to a spiritual understanding of these written materials from the class. Spiritual, versus a 5-senses, natural understanding was often mentioned by Dr as our destiny. Look at page 14 of Vol.IV "God's Magnified Word."

This kind of mastered knowledge is crucial to us, and Dr knew it so he saved this message to be his last. The adversary knew it too, and in the years since Dr's death the adversary was very successful in downplaying the importance of Dr's final instructions in most leaders' minds, so today it remains almost totally lost.

In the Living Victoriously class, in the first teaching, seventeen minutes into it Dr. teaches very clearly that if he knew that he had one last chance to teach us, he would want to be SURE to teach the MOST IMPORTANT thing he could: master PFAL.

Anyway, the story continues....

In the Sept/Oct 1986 issue of the Way Magazine this precious set of final instructions from our father in the Word to all of us was finally released to non-leadership. But get this: it was a full sixteen months late, AND it was printed right after Chris Geer dropped the bomb at Corps Week and the disastrous Rock '86, so everyone's head was spinning. The big question then was "Who's the boss? Craig or Chris?" and, sadly, the RECORDED, PUBLIC last will and testament of Dr. Wierwille's was overlooked in favor of the supposed, secret last words of Dr to Chris. The fact that these reported private instructions contradicted Dr's public instructions went unnoticed.

I now fully believe that the accusations leveled at Craig, Howard, and Don by Chris regarding their not taking Dr's teachings seriously are equally pertinent to us all, including Mr Geer! I'm sure that if we all had spiritually heard Dr's final instructions immediately after his death, and had REALLY obeyed them, then the ministry wouldn't have died. But we didn't, and it did.

Mastery of Dr's writings is the same as mastering the KJV Bible, with the end goal being the application in love. And the many of the techniques are the same, for instance: knowing where chapters are, frequent and repeated reading, being able to find things quickly in the books, memorizing passages, and even word studies. God taught Dr to precisely handle words just like He taught the Biblical writers. God's teaching to Dr, and then Dr's teaching to us was the best since the first century. Do you know anyone else who heard an audible promise from God to get taught directly by God? (maybe you do, but what do they have to show for it compared to Dr&pfal) These PFAL materials are the final end product of that 1942 promise, and these materials are WORTH mastering.

The above techniques are five senses methods God expects us to utilize. For the spiritual understanding we were taught that revelation begins where the five senses leave off. From the "16 Keys To Walking In The Spirit" in the Advanced Class we were taught that "What you can know by the fives senses, God expects you to know." After we know what we can naturally, then God can teach us the spiritual point of view, and the arena for accomplishing all this is in that set of materials Dr identified in his most important final words addressed to us all. It is with the collaterals books that we need to spend a lot of time.

We all have been either living in ignorance of, or in disobedience to Dr's final instructions for many years now, and the consequences are very apparent. What we have now is not even close to the quality and quantity of love and cooperation we once enjoyed. How many people have we been unable to help these last fourteen years? How many people have we lost? How much of what Dr. taught us has slipped out of our own heads? Is there anyone who is still serious about raising the dead? I'm tired of winging it, spiritually, and I've made my decision. I've returned to a state of ultimate meekness toward Dr, the class, and the collaterals. It worked once before, because this is what God set up.

For years I erroneously thought I had "mastered" those books when I had finished transferring the corrections to the KJV text in my wide margin Bible, and when I could comfortably teach a chapter (or ten) in a fellowship. In this letter above I mentioned several techniques of mastery I had never before dreamed of applying.

When I returned to a serious study of Dr's books I found out very quickly that I had never come even close to REALLY mastering them. This has been very humbling, but also very delightful. We are sitting on a diamond mine, just ready to be tapped.

I pray that you sound out this good news, and return with us to the best God-taught, God-inspired teaching of God's Word since the first century. I do crave to see us unified again on PFAL. It was a great blessing from God, and there's no justifiable reason to do anything else but go back and master what God gave us.

Agape,

Mike

P.S. We found two places where Dr. "hinted" that doing

word studies in his books are valid, and even recommended:

Way Magazine, May/June '79 page 22, middle column,

second paragraph: "when you read anything"

"Receiving the Holy Spirit Today" page 223, the

terms "paragraph and section" are rarely applied

to the Bible, but do pertain to Dr's books.