Once chosen, either path must be followed, and we are therefore all followers. True freedom may last for only the moment in which we choose what we follow.
Do we put our choices to a vote, or do we consider the majority and then listen to ourselves? Frost took the time to find his own preferences and they led him to the path less traveled.
Once the poem was published, it unfortunately became the path more travelled.
"For Once, Then, Something" has revealed itself to me. The whitish glimmer was most likely a beer can. (I would have taunted him too.)
"Acquainted with the Night" reminds me of the beginning of Jay Leno / The Tonight Show, where Jay walks around at night. The key is, it is not important whether you have the right time or the wrong time, as long as you have a good time. This is Jay's message too, and Frost may watched The Tonight Show and learned this principle.
Amen.
PS: Great post. Just couldn't peer into the well tonight.
I used to watch Jay Leno all the time. Don't know why I don't anymore except more often than not I'm sitting in front of my computer screen around that time trying to come up with something profound to say (which is more than what you're doing right now). Except usually what I end up with is about as profound as some of those answers Jay gets when he does his little nighttime interviews. At least I made the effort. But, hey, how come I have to do all the thinking around here? Is that it? Just a beer can? You couldn't come up with anything more?
I'll try comedy next time, except that will only make things worse. Much worse.
'Twas a longing for the fair-haired youth to be but a wayfarer 'til the e'en of this life
But,alas,he 'ad chosen the path less traveled,and lived a wayfer o'er a third of his life
I'm not sure what Frost meant when he said 'that has been the difference'...He could not see what lay at the end of either path,as none of us can...Maybe it's our personalities that determine which path we take in our life's quests,if when we come to a fork in the road the only difference is that one is less traveled than the other...
I'm reminded of Yogi Berra's "When you come to a fork in the road,take it"...Although laughed at and dismissed as a "Yogiism",his quote had a pearl of wisdom to it...It denotes that one is at least "traveling",and then suggests that when one is faced with a choice,make one and continue on....I don't know if we are all "travelers" in this life...I think I was...I've always enjoyed the journey as much,if not more,than the destination...If there is a regret about my way years,it is that I suspended my journey...
Although,the more I think about it,some paths take you quite a bit out of your way before you realize you're not going where you want to and you're given the opportunity to choose another one...
Late one dark wintry night,while driving to limb headquarters,I realized I missed my exit just as I was driving past it...So I figured I'd just turn around at the next exit,thinking it would only be a couple of miles...There was no place to turn around because of the snow,and as it turned out,the next exit was about 25 miles...As I was getting angrier and angrier with every mile marker I passed,thinking I was getting farther and farther from my destination,it occured to me that while I was actually distancing myself from my destination,I was really drawing closer due to the path I was now on...The next turn-around was my more immediate destination...
Don't know what any of this means or if it's pertinent,but I like the general subject matter...
I think I like the perspective that no matter where you are, you're heading toward your destination, even if you've missed your exit. I'll read your post again later, though, since I don't start feeling philosophical until sometime after ten.
But I have to ask: "I like the general subject matter" -- Does this mean you no longer think I'm a creep? I was a little worried about that.
Simon: Well, I'm relieved. But just so you know, there's some oddball running around the GreaseSpot Diner in a tweed jacket, carrying your punctuation in his briefcase, interrupting tame, gentle, quiet exchanges among other peace-loving patrons, babbling about confrontations and the like. I knew it couldn't have been you.
Back to the topic. Let's see. After one drink, I'm relaxed. After two, I'm even more relaxed. By three, I'm starting to get loopy. Any more than that and I'm ready to take to my bed . . . with walls spinning, in need of a cold compress, or maybe a hot water bottle. Or both. Philosophy can wait.
Do you really think you suspended your journey during the Way years? I'm not sure what to make of it. At one time, (obviously) I thought I was on the right (only) path. Then I thought the whole thing was an embarrassing mistake. Now I'm somewhere in between. Not sure where, though.
I don't know who the oddball in the tweed jacket is Laleo,but if you see him,tell him I want my punctuation back...
Did I suspend my journey during my way years?...I think in mid-post I realized I did not...I like a "path" or a "road" as an apt description of life's journeys...All paths lead somewhere,and we are never truly right back where we started...Even if the paths we took were to lead us to the same fork in the road,we wouldn't be the same person the next time around...We would be older,wiser,more skeptical,perhaps more tired or less eager...Regardless,the more or less traveled roads have a different appeal the second time around...
Why would our way days be an embarrassing mistake?..If,in fact,there was an ultimate purpose and truth,and it could be found hidden under the foundation of Wrigley Field had we only looked there,then yes,our time spent in the way would have been a waste...But since nobody has found "the truth",and if they did,they certainly have not been able to convince the rest of the world that they found it,I think we all follow paths that are personally fulfilling or at least seem to have the answers,until we are in our own selves convinced that it's time to take a different road...
People like to use the phrase "been there,done that"...I think where we've been and what we've done makes us who we are..And as long as the way satisfied that yen we had for their "truth" for ever how long it took us to start looking elsewhere,perhaps it somehow helped shape us into the more wise and educated persons we are today...
Well, Simon, here it is, barely noon, and you already have me in a contemplative state. I think Frost's point was that he wasn't any wiser for having chosen one path over the other, because he didn't know where the other led. Besides, Frost characteristically held regret at arm's length. He studied it from a distance, imagined what it would be like, but never really experienced it. Not that we all need to be like Frost.
I understand what you're saying about the "personally fulfilling" path, and people get off the path when they're ready to, when it stops serving a purpose for them. However, when I read posts from, say, the CES types, or the Way-brainers, or whatever, I do feel embarrassed to think that I ever had anything in common with them, that I was ever so shallow, or looked at life with such simplicity. I can't even read the links without cringing, or take any of those tedious "teachings" seriously. Then I start wondering about the role of GreaseSpot, too, or, rather, my role here. I have less than a passing interest in the status of The Way -- I think just about everyone I ever knew has moved on, and those who haven't, I've long since lost my connection with -- and I sure don't have any compulsion to "save" anyone from his involvement. So what am I doing here? What are you doing here (if you don't mind my asking)? Is GS part of your path, too? How so? I think most (if not all) of my unfinished business was cleared up long ago. (I'm fast approaching the status of a Postaholic, so I need to start thinking about this stuff. I'm planning my twelve-step recovery process beforehand.)
I don't think I got any closer to "the truth" for all my years of involvement in The Way. Honestly, the only thing that comes to mind right now that may have been a lasting benefit is their twisted teachings on "fear." Not that there was anything inherently useful or right about them, but, comparing myself with non-Way friends, I'm more likely to take chances, or small risks -- in little ways. I don't NOT do something because of discomfort, whereas others seem to me to be more susceptible to everyday anxieties. Anyway, that's one small thing that comes to mind, which may even be credited to genetics, for all I know.
I don't know how wise or educated I am because of my involvement, though. Hard to judge. How are you wiser? More educated?
Well,Laleo,I do like the point about Frost keeping regret at arm's length...Living with too much regret and second guessing can lead to "garbage time",that is,just filling in a space until the clock runs down...
I suppose in our way years,at the time it made more sense to think that the "all truth" could be confined to a 1611 version of God's holy word,as researched and expounded by VPW,and written and lived in the hearts of the followers of the way..I mean,if the truth wasn't there,where could we possibly begin to start looking elsewhere?...Personally,I stayed with the way until I was satisfied that I uncovered every stone they had to offer...After graduating the way corps,and admitting to myself that I had acquired NO in-depth spiritual perception and awareness,I decided I had seen enough...
How am I more educated?...Well,I consider myself "handy" in my use of one of the greatest books ever written...And I'm actually proud of that...How am I wiser?...Probably in that I am no more searching for fulfillment in the pages of said book,or in teachings of the book,or in tapes of teachings of the book,or in articles about tapes of teachings of the book,or in commentaries concerning articles about tapes of teachings of the book,or in links to commentaries concerning--well,I'm sure you get the idea....
Why am I here?...Well,you asked me without giving the reasons why you were here,only the reasons you shouldn't be here...I don't know specifically,but I would certainly say it's part of my path(probably straight to hell)...I don't have a particular mission here,but for some reason I feel drawn to people that spent some time walking down that same elongated path that wore down my sandals for about a third of my life...
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satori001
Once chosen, either path must be followed, and we are therefore all followers. True freedom may last for only the moment in which we choose what we follow.
Do we put our choices to a vote, or do we consider the majority and then listen to ourselves? Frost took the time to find his own preferences and they led him to the path less traveled.
Once the poem was published, it unfortunately became the path more travelled.
"For Once, Then, Something" has revealed itself to me. The whitish glimmer was most likely a beer can. (I would have taunted him too.)
"Acquainted with the Night" reminds me of the beginning of Jay Leno / The Tonight Show, where Jay walks around at night. The key is, it is not important whether you have the right time or the wrong time, as long as you have a good time. This is Jay's message too, and Frost may watched The Tonight Show and learned this principle.
Amen.
PS: Great post. Just couldn't peer into the well tonight.
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laleo
I used to watch Jay Leno all the time. Don't know why I don't anymore except more often than not I'm sitting in front of my computer screen around that time trying to come up with something profound to say (which is more than what you're doing right now). Except usually what I end up with is about as profound as some of those answers Jay gets when he does his little nighttime interviews. At least I made the effort. But, hey, how come I have to do all the thinking around here? Is that it? Just a beer can? You couldn't come up with anything more?
I'll try comedy next time, except that will only make things worse. Much worse.
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simonzelotes
'Twas a longing for the fair-haired youth to be but a wayfarer 'til the e'en of this life
But,alas,he 'ad chosen the path less traveled,and lived a wayfer o'er a third of his life
I'm not sure what Frost meant when he said 'that has been the difference'...He could not see what lay at the end of either path,as none of us can...Maybe it's our personalities that determine which path we take in our life's quests,if when we come to a fork in the road the only difference is that one is less traveled than the other...
I'm reminded of Yogi Berra's "When you come to a fork in the road,take it"...Although laughed at and dismissed as a "Yogiism",his quote had a pearl of wisdom to it...It denotes that one is at least "traveling",and then suggests that when one is faced with a choice,make one and continue on....I don't know if we are all "travelers" in this life...I think I was...I've always enjoyed the journey as much,if not more,than the destination...If there is a regret about my way years,it is that I suspended my journey...
Although,the more I think about it,some paths take you quite a bit out of your way before you realize you're not going where you want to and you're given the opportunity to choose another one...
Late one dark wintry night,while driving to limb headquarters,I realized I missed my exit just as I was driving past it...So I figured I'd just turn around at the next exit,thinking it would only be a couple of miles...There was no place to turn around because of the snow,and as it turned out,the next exit was about 25 miles...As I was getting angrier and angrier with every mile marker I passed,thinking I was getting farther and farther from my destination,it occured to me that while I was actually distancing myself from my destination,I was really drawing closer due to the path I was now on...The next turn-around was my more immediate destination...
Don't know what any of this means or if it's pertinent,but I like the general subject matter...
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laleo
Simon,
I think I like the perspective that no matter where you are, you're heading toward your destination, even if you've missed your exit. I'll read your post again later, though, since I don't start feeling philosophical until sometime after ten.
But I have to ask: "I like the general subject matter" -- Does this mean you no longer think I'm a creep? I was a little worried about that.
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simonzelotes
Laleo,
Have I ever even insinuated the foggiest hint of a possible,tho improbable,ghost of an innuendo or notion that you may or may not be a creep?
:)-->
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Steve!
Laleo, I know what you mean about waxing philosophical. It usually takes me 4 or 5 drinks, though.
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simonzelotes
I don't know,Steve,I usually wax philosophical...After four or five drinks I get horny...
Sorry...couldn't resist...
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laleo
Simon: Well, I'm relieved. But just so you know, there's some oddball running around the GreaseSpot Diner in a tweed jacket, carrying your punctuation in his briefcase, interrupting tame, gentle, quiet exchanges among other peace-loving patrons, babbling about confrontations and the like. I knew it couldn't have been you.
Back to the topic. Let's see. After one drink, I'm relaxed. After two, I'm even more relaxed. By three, I'm starting to get loopy. Any more than that and I'm ready to take to my bed . . . with walls spinning, in need of a cold compress, or maybe a hot water bottle. Or both. Philosophy can wait.
Do you really think you suspended your journey during the Way years? I'm not sure what to make of it. At one time, (obviously) I thought I was on the right (only) path. Then I thought the whole thing was an embarrassing mistake. Now I'm somewhere in between. Not sure where, though.
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simonzelotes
I don't know who the oddball in the tweed jacket is Laleo,but if you see him,tell him I want my punctuation back...
Did I suspend my journey during my way years?...I think in mid-post I realized I did not...I like a "path" or a "road" as an apt description of life's journeys...All paths lead somewhere,and we are never truly right back where we started...Even if the paths we took were to lead us to the same fork in the road,we wouldn't be the same person the next time around...We would be older,wiser,more skeptical,perhaps more tired or less eager...Regardless,the more or less traveled roads have a different appeal the second time around...
Why would our way days be an embarrassing mistake?..If,in fact,there was an ultimate purpose and truth,and it could be found hidden under the foundation of Wrigley Field had we only looked there,then yes,our time spent in the way would have been a waste...But since nobody has found "the truth",and if they did,they certainly have not been able to convince the rest of the world that they found it,I think we all follow paths that are personally fulfilling or at least seem to have the answers,until we are in our own selves convinced that it's time to take a different road...
People like to use the phrase "been there,done that"...I think where we've been and what we've done makes us who we are..And as long as the way satisfied that yen we had for their "truth" for ever how long it took us to start looking elsewhere,perhaps it somehow helped shape us into the more wise and educated persons we are today...
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laleo
Well, Simon, here it is, barely noon, and you already have me in a contemplative state. I think Frost's point was that he wasn't any wiser for having chosen one path over the other, because he didn't know where the other led. Besides, Frost characteristically held regret at arm's length. He studied it from a distance, imagined what it would be like, but never really experienced it. Not that we all need to be like Frost.
I understand what you're saying about the "personally fulfilling" path, and people get off the path when they're ready to, when it stops serving a purpose for them. However, when I read posts from, say, the CES types, or the Way-brainers, or whatever, I do feel embarrassed to think that I ever had anything in common with them, that I was ever so shallow, or looked at life with such simplicity. I can't even read the links without cringing, or take any of those tedious "teachings" seriously. Then I start wondering about the role of GreaseSpot, too, or, rather, my role here. I have less than a passing interest in the status of The Way -- I think just about everyone I ever knew has moved on, and those who haven't, I've long since lost my connection with -- and I sure don't have any compulsion to "save" anyone from his involvement. So what am I doing here? What are you doing here (if you don't mind my asking)? Is GS part of your path, too? How so? I think most (if not all) of my unfinished business was cleared up long ago. (I'm fast approaching the status of a Postaholic, so I need to start thinking about this stuff. I'm planning my twelve-step recovery process beforehand.)
I don't think I got any closer to "the truth" for all my years of involvement in The Way. Honestly, the only thing that comes to mind right now that may have been a lasting benefit is their twisted teachings on "fear." Not that there was anything inherently useful or right about them, but, comparing myself with non-Way friends, I'm more likely to take chances, or small risks -- in little ways. I don't NOT do something because of discomfort, whereas others seem to me to be more susceptible to everyday anxieties. Anyway, that's one small thing that comes to mind, which may even be credited to genetics, for all I know.
I don't know how wise or educated I am because of my involvement, though. Hard to judge. How are you wiser? More educated?
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simonzelotes
Well,Laleo,I do like the point about Frost keeping regret at arm's length...Living with too much regret and second guessing can lead to "garbage time",that is,just filling in a space until the clock runs down...
I suppose in our way years,at the time it made more sense to think that the "all truth" could be confined to a 1611 version of God's holy word,as researched and expounded by VPW,and written and lived in the hearts of the followers of the way..I mean,if the truth wasn't there,where could we possibly begin to start looking elsewhere?...Personally,I stayed with the way until I was satisfied that I uncovered every stone they had to offer...After graduating the way corps,and admitting to myself that I had acquired NO in-depth spiritual perception and awareness,I decided I had seen enough...
How am I more educated?...Well,I consider myself "handy" in my use of one of the greatest books ever written...And I'm actually proud of that...How am I wiser?...Probably in that I am no more searching for fulfillment in the pages of said book,or in teachings of the book,or in tapes of teachings of the book,or in articles about tapes of teachings of the book,or in commentaries concerning articles about tapes of teachings of the book,or in links to commentaries concerning--well,I'm sure you get the idea....
Why am I here?...Well,you asked me without giving the reasons why you were here,only the reasons you shouldn't be here...I don't know specifically,but I would certainly say it's part of my path(probably straight to hell)...I don't have a particular mission here,but for some reason I feel drawn to people that spent some time walking down that same elongated path that wore down my sandals for about a third of my life...
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laleo
Maybe I should have started with this poem, instead of the other. I think it's close to what you're saying.
Anyway, thanks, simon. Glad you stopped in to offer your perspective. I enjoyed it.
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simonzelotes
You're very welcome...
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