"It is the duty of all men in society, publicly, and at stated
seasons, to worship the SUPREME BEING, the great Creator
and Preserver of the universe. And no subject shall be hurt,
molested, or restrained, in his person, liberty, or estate, for
worshipping GOD in the manner most agreeable to the dictates of
his own conscience; or for his religious profession or sentiments;
provided he doth not disturb the public peace, or obstruct others
in their religious worship."
-- John Adams (Thoughts on Government, 1776)
This quote came in my email this morning and I found it interesting. I have no doubt it'll be quickly debunked and ridiculed by those who seek to change history by debunking anything that doesn't praise the secular/atheist/statist worldview.
What's especially notable is Adams inspiration is OBVIOUSLY not from a church perspective, but another perspective which I prefer not to subject to the same ridicule.
"It is the duty of all men in society, publicly, and at stated seasons, to worship the SUPREME BEING, the great Creator and Preserver of the universe....
I could say everyone has a duty to worship rocks and it would have just as much meaning.
If you're going to require the human race to worship something, then you should define what that something is....not some vague something out there responsible for everything.
No doubt he made that quote. And yet its interesting that despite the quote from Adams that you post, he also signed the Treaty of Tripoli (1797) that clearly stated "The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation."
Is that 'rewriting of history'?
Oh, by the way, I found where that quote was embedded in the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts itself (in Articles II and III):
It is the right as well as the Duty of all men in society, publickly and at stated seasons to worship the Supreme Being, the great Creator and preserver of the Universe. And no Subject shall be hurt, molested or restrained in his person, Liberty or Estate, for worshipping God in the manner and season most agreeable to the Dictates of his own conscience, or for his religious profession or sentiments, provided he doth not disturb the public peace, or obstruct others in their religious worship.
III. As the happiness of a people, and the good order and preservation of a civil government, essentially depend upon piety, religion and morality; and as these cannot be generally diffused through a Community, but by the institution of the public Worship of God, and of public instructions in piety, religion and morality: Therefore, to promote their happiness and to secure the good order and preservation of their government, the people of this Commonwealth have a right to invest their legislature with power to authorize and require, and the legislature shall, from time to time, authorize and require, the several Towns, parishes, precincts and other bodies politic, or religious societies, to make suitable provision, at their own Expense, for the institution of Public worship of God, and for the support and maintenance of public protestant teachers of piety, religion and morality, in all cases where such provision shall not be made voluntarily.
basically giving Massachusetts a distinct place in having its own 'state church'.
Fortunately, such laws were stricken and rendered *unconstitutional*, as in federally unconstitutional, that is. See, here is one prime example of where the national Constitution out trumps the state one (as well it should). Now, under the Articles of the Confederation, that wouldn't have happened, and any state would have been free to set up their own state church. ... Which means, so much for religious freedom!
Tell me something. Do you actually think about and scrutinize those opposing viewpoints you see here, or do you automatically render them as 'secular/atheist/statist ridicule' out of hand?
Belle I think you are being a little hard on Lifted. You both posted some quotes to ponder so what is the big deal? Ok your thread it didn't go the way you wanted, geese how many threads do? Someone posted recently a quote something like "Get used to not having things the way you like it around here" I think that’s good advice as you most likely won't. Someone posts they like naturopathic medicine the next person will trash it. Someone posts something positive about their Way experience the next person will have a problem with that and so on.....
Honestly you should have expected some response most of the quotes you posted were offensive to someone with a biblical belief system. Many were nothing more than cheap shots at Christian beliefs. Because you don't hold to that system of belief they were funny to you but they are insulting to someone who does.
For instance the example you posted :
QUOTE
If we are going to teach creation science as an alternative to evolution, then we should also teach the stork theory as an alternative to biological reproduction.
Judith Hayes
Now I don't find that funny in fact it is not even a fair comparison in my opinion. It is I dare say pretty widely accepted that the stork is not an believable reproduction theory. On the other hand Creation science is a belief held by a pretty good percentage of our population to put them in the same catagory is insulting.
Honestly I looked at the list of quotes and saw the obvious antibiblical theme and moved along to another thread. No big deal I am used to it from liberal secular left wing people like Bill Maher. and Judith Hayes. Apparently Lifted thought that the thread needed a little balance to the bias. Also no big deal. I noticed predictably some did not like those quotes either. I found the quotes insulting and not worth the time for a response Lifted did, each to their own.
WhiteDove, I stand behind my posts. Lifted assumed the purpose of the thread and assumed wrongly which sent the thread off onto a whole nother tangent.
I'm not complaining, just merely expressing what I had hoped would be the direction of the thread. In my opinion just posting some other rebuttal quotes is a waste of time. It doesn't generate any discussion - it just becomes a "Yo Mama" - "YO Mama" thread with a couple of posts and then dies. I really wanted to discuss the ideas presented and I emphasized - I don't know how many times - that I don't necessarily agree with all of them.
Many were nothing more than cheap shots at Christian beliefs. Because you don't hold to that system of belief they were funny to you but they are insulting to someone who does.
Again, that's an assumption, WhiteDove. ;) That's what gets my goat more than anything else.
I don't know how to be any more clear in my communication. In the church where I grew up, we studied the Bible, but we didn't worship the Bible and we didn't live by "chapter & verse". We were encouraged to ask questions and to think aloud and we discussed things and sometimes it got heated. In TWI we worshiped the Bible and considered it the end all and be all of life with "everything pertaining to life and godliness" at the expense of our own reasoning, thinking, intuition and practical common sense.
I've been reading and studying about the history of religions in general, Judaism, Catholicism and Christianity. It's brought up some questions in my mind that I'm still pondering. I have already epounded om some of the quotes and what thoughts they generated in my mind and was interested in the thoughts of others. I am not, nor was I looking for a fight or a whole nother set of quotes - I'm very familiar with those kinds of quotes. I value the opinions of most of the people on here and was hoping for some valid discussions. *shrug* It didn't happen that way - no biggie, but I'm not going to retract what I said just because of it.
I'm sorry that you were offended, truly. I thought it was funny. I still do. I think it's funny how I can laugh at red neck jokes, but some bonafide red necks get offended by them. I can laugh at southern jokes but some southerners get offended by them. I think it's healthy to not take ourselves too seriously.
Actually Belle I don't see where Lifted assumed anything if you look at the original post is was - Here are some more quotes followed by the Quotes. I do understand your point about what happens then to a thread direction and I agree. Unfortunately that is the way things go sometimes depending on the day a thread can and will go in different directions.
QUOTE WhiteDove}
Many were nothing more than cheap shots at Christian beliefs. Because you don't hold to that system of belief they were funny to you but they are insulting to someone who does.
I based this comment on your information presented
Quote Belle]
I guess I've been pondering whether the Bible really is the end all and be all source of all answers. It seems to be fallible and therefore NOT the God breathed word. I also consider that there most likely were political agendas involved with the writing of some of the books as well as the decision on what should be included in the Bible.
The fact that you are unsure or pondering tells me in your words that you are not holding to that system of belief if you were you would be convinced in your mind that it was true not pondering. Additionally those who hold to that system, believe it when it says it was God breathed you stated the opposite that it was not. Based on those facts it is logical that you are not holding to that belief system as you are in direct opposition to what it believes. That may change at some point but it is not true at this point it's a fact not an asumption.
Further people that truly hold to a Christian system of belief would not find humor or promote these kind of quotes as it is contrary to their beliefs.
The Bible looks like it started out as a game of Mad Libs.
Bill Maher
Born again?! No, I'm not. Excuse me for getting it right the first time.
Dennis Miller
(Romans says we were dead in sin we could not get anything right the first or the twentyfirst time, thats the point of needing a Savior)
The Bible is literature, not dogma.
George Santayana
You said "I think it's healthy to not take ourselves too seriously". I could not agree more, but I do think it is very healthy to take what God says very seriously.....
There is still time for your thread to take a turn in the direction you wished hopefully it will.
thanks for bringing this back up, Kit, I missed it the first time around.
Belle,
You mentioned this:
"So how DID Noah get penguins, polar bears, kangaroos and Tasmanian devils into the ark? Interesting question, no?"
I learned in a World Civ class many years ago that the region that is believed to be where Noah lived did once flood. So, maybe the flood story isn't literally "the whole world" but simply the world Noah knew?
I especially liked this quote:
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
Stephen Roberts
To me, it sums up how I feel about the "us" v "them" mentality that seems to permeate a great many religions.
and this one I found especially funny:
"Why should we take advice on sex from the pope? If he knows anything about it, he shouldn't!
George Bernard Shaw"
You will also notice I have added a new tag line from your quotes. :D
Recommended Posts
Ron G.
"It is the duty of all men in society, publicly, and at stated
seasons, to worship the SUPREME BEING, the great Creator
and Preserver of the universe. And no subject shall be hurt,
molested, or restrained, in his person, liberty, or estate, for
worshipping GOD in the manner most agreeable to the dictates of
his own conscience; or for his religious profession or sentiments;
provided he doth not disturb the public peace, or obstruct others
in their religious worship."
-- John Adams (Thoughts on Government, 1776)
This quote came in my email this morning and I found it interesting. I have no doubt it'll be quickly debunked and ridiculed by those who seek to change history by debunking anything that doesn't praise the secular/atheist/statist worldview.
What's especially notable is Adams inspiration is OBVIOUSLY not from a church perspective, but another perspective which I prefer not to subject to the same ridicule.
What do you think?
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GT
I could say everyone has a duty to worship rocks and it would have just as much meaning.
If you're going to require the human race to worship something, then you should define what that something is....not some vague something out there responsible for everything.
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GarthP2000
Ron,
No doubt he made that quote. And yet its interesting that despite the quote from Adams that you post, he also signed the Treaty of Tripoli (1797) that clearly stated "The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation."
Is that 'rewriting of history'?
Oh, by the way, I found where that quote was embedded in the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts itself (in Articles II and III):
basically giving Massachusetts a distinct place in having its own 'state church'.
Fortunately, such laws were stricken and rendered *unconstitutional*, as in federally unconstitutional, that is. See, here is one prime example of where the national Constitution out trumps the state one (as well it should). Now, under the Articles of the Confederation, that wouldn't have happened, and any state would have been free to set up their own state church. ... Which means, so much for religious freedom!
Tell me something. Do you actually think about and scrutinize those opposing viewpoints you see here, or do you automatically render them as 'secular/atheist/statist ridicule' out of hand?
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WhiteDove
Belle I think you are being a little hard on Lifted. You both posted some quotes to ponder so what is the big deal? Ok your thread it didn't go the way you wanted, geese how many threads do? Someone posted recently a quote something like "Get used to not having things the way you like it around here" I think that’s good advice as you most likely won't. Someone posts they like naturopathic medicine the next person will trash it. Someone posts something positive about their Way experience the next person will have a problem with that and so on.....
Honestly you should have expected some response most of the quotes you posted were offensive to someone with a biblical belief system. Many were nothing more than cheap shots at Christian beliefs. Because you don't hold to that system of belief they were funny to you but they are insulting to someone who does.
For instance the example you posted :
QUOTE
If we are going to teach creation science as an alternative to evolution, then we should also teach the stork theory as an alternative to biological reproduction.
Judith Hayes
Now I don't find that funny in fact it is not even a fair comparison in my opinion. It is I dare say pretty widely accepted that the stork is not an believable reproduction theory. On the other hand Creation science is a belief held by a pretty good percentage of our population to put them in the same catagory is insulting.
Honestly I looked at the list of quotes and saw the obvious antibiblical theme and moved along to another thread. No big deal I am used to it from liberal secular left wing people like Bill Maher. and Judith Hayes. Apparently Lifted thought that the thread needed a little balance to the bias. Also no big deal. I noticed predictably some did not like those quotes either. I found the quotes insulting and not worth the time for a response Lifted did, each to their own.
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Belle
WhiteDove, I stand behind my posts. Lifted assumed the purpose of the thread and assumed wrongly which sent the thread off onto a whole nother tangent.
I'm not complaining, just merely expressing what I had hoped would be the direction of the thread. In my opinion just posting some other rebuttal quotes is a waste of time. It doesn't generate any discussion - it just becomes a "Yo Mama" - "YO Mama" thread with a couple of posts and then dies. I really wanted to discuss the ideas presented and I emphasized - I don't know how many times - that I don't necessarily agree with all of them.
Again, that's an assumption, WhiteDove. ;) That's what gets my goat more than anything else.
I don't know how to be any more clear in my communication. In the church where I grew up, we studied the Bible, but we didn't worship the Bible and we didn't live by "chapter & verse". We were encouraged to ask questions and to think aloud and we discussed things and sometimes it got heated. In TWI we worshiped the Bible and considered it the end all and be all of life with "everything pertaining to life and godliness" at the expense of our own reasoning, thinking, intuition and practical common sense.
I've been reading and studying about the history of religions in general, Judaism, Catholicism and Christianity. It's brought up some questions in my mind that I'm still pondering. I have already epounded om some of the quotes and what thoughts they generated in my mind and was interested in the thoughts of others. I am not, nor was I looking for a fight or a whole nother set of quotes - I'm very familiar with those kinds of quotes. I value the opinions of most of the people on here and was hoping for some valid discussions. *shrug* It didn't happen that way - no biggie, but I'm not going to retract what I said just because of it.
I'm sorry that you were offended, truly. I thought it was funny. I still do. I think it's funny how I can laugh at red neck jokes, but some bonafide red necks get offended by them. I can laugh at southern jokes but some southerners get offended by them. I think it's healthy to not take ourselves too seriously.
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George Aar
Belle,
Here's a quote from a great humanitarian of our time (me),
"Free thought is not a hallmark of anyone with a religious mindset."
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WhiteDove
Actually Belle I don't see where Lifted assumed anything if you look at the original post is was - Here are some more quotes followed by the Quotes. I do understand your point about what happens then to a thread direction and I agree. Unfortunately that is the way things go sometimes depending on the day a thread can and will go in different directions.
QUOTE WhiteDove}
Many were nothing more than cheap shots at Christian beliefs. Because you don't hold to that system of belief they were funny to you but they are insulting to someone who does.
I based this comment on your information presented
Quote Belle]
I guess I've been pondering whether the Bible really is the end all and be all source of all answers. It seems to be fallible and therefore NOT the God breathed word. I also consider that there most likely were political agendas involved with the writing of some of the books as well as the decision on what should be included in the Bible.
The fact that you are unsure or pondering tells me in your words that you are not holding to that system of belief if you were you would be convinced in your mind that it was true not pondering. Additionally those who hold to that system, believe it when it says it was God breathed you stated the opposite that it was not. Based on those facts it is logical that you are not holding to that belief system as you are in direct opposition to what it believes. That may change at some point but it is not true at this point it's a fact not an asumption.
Further people that truly hold to a Christian system of belief would not find humor or promote these kind of quotes as it is contrary to their beliefs.
The Bible looks like it started out as a game of Mad Libs.
Bill Maher
Born again?! No, I'm not. Excuse me for getting it right the first time.
Dennis Miller
(Romans says we were dead in sin we could not get anything right the first or the twentyfirst time, thats the point of needing a Savior)
The Bible is literature, not dogma.
George Santayana
You said "I think it's healthy to not take ourselves too seriously". I could not agree more, but I do think it is very healthy to take what God says very seriously.....
There is still time for your thread to take a turn in the direction you wished hopefully it will.
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Kit Sober
Poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese.
G. K. Chesterton
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RumRunner
Robin Sibley
Wensleydale is my favourite cheese,
I eat it every day.
I love the stuff they make in Hawes,
It chases my blues away.
Gouda comes next in my list of faves,
It really is a treat,
And if I have no crackers or bread,
It's grand to eat Gouda neat.
"It's full of mould", my friends they say,
Oh! they of little class!
For Stilton is third in my cheese top five,
It really does kick foot!
Grana is the newest entry,
It's great on tagliatelli,
I'll eat it on almost anything,
Including, you've guessed it, jelly.
Tilsit is my girlfriends fave,
She loves the tiny holes,
"What makes them?" she cries, and my only reply, is
"Tiny little moles!"
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Abigail
thanks for bringing this back up, Kit, I missed it the first time around.
Belle,
You mentioned this:
"So how DID Noah get penguins, polar bears, kangaroos and Tasmanian devils into the ark? Interesting question, no?"
I learned in a World Civ class many years ago that the region that is believed to be where Noah lived did once flood. So, maybe the flood story isn't literally "the whole world" but simply the world Noah knew?
I especially liked this quote:
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
Stephen Roberts
To me, it sums up how I feel about the "us" v "them" mentality that seems to permeate a great many religions.
and this one I found especially funny:
"Why should we take advice on sex from the pope? If he knows anything about it, he shouldn't!
George Bernard Shaw"
You will also notice I have added a new tag line from your quotes. :D
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Kit Sober
Love others the way that God has loved you, with tenderness.— Mother Teresa
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Kit Sober
Anything is a blessing which makes us pray -- C.H. Spurgeon
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