Before I directly respond, I’d like to know if you believe what Christ said to Nicodemus:
Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him.” In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.”
“How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!”
“Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. “Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’” (John 3:1-7)
dancing…
Do you believe Christ… that we must be born again?
Are you born again?
If you are in the body of Christ... curious... what were you taught about Christ’s descent for the church?
“Signless” event?
After the wrath?
What do you believe today about Christ’s return in the clouds for the church?
Dancing, you're new here, but I don't understand your hostility. Sure, Revvel posts on a lot of other boards, so what? Why are you so angry at him?
I for one, and others, have enjoyed reading this, its food for thought - whether one chooses to believe it or not. This is the "Doctrinal" section where doctrine is discussed, and Revvel has every right to post.
Revvel, I've really enjoyed this, I can't "discuss" it with you because I pretty much agree with everything you've shared, and hope you will continue to share with us.
Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?” I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore, “they are before the throne of God and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them. Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst. The sun will not beat upon them, nor any scorching heat. For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; he will lead them to springs of living water. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.” (Rev. 7:9-17)
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. KJV[/u]
I think verse 14 is the key that these people are not us. We have not washed our own robes and made them white, because salvation is received by grace upon belief and not by works.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
We are washed by the finished works of Christ in this age.
Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things:
If it was hid, then it was hid, and everything about it.
Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
You have made it clear that you have a different perspective. That’s fine… This is a forum… People are going to agree and disagree all day long… This is a place to provoke thought through intelligent debate.
To begin…
Yes… I am posting on other sites. To my knowledge, I have addressed every question I have received. I address people the same way I do here: respect anyone who posts, and try to respond as soon as possible, with Scripture.
This thread is about “the day of the Lord”: the divine harmony of divine revelation from the Gospel of Matthew to the Book of Revelation, and the parallel prophecies in the Old Testament. This thread is not about me; it is about Christ and divine revelation.
Honestly, I do not know what you are referring to with regard to your “questions” that I have not answered. The only questions that I know you posed are in this forum, and I will now answer them.
I only asked questions of you in order to better respond to you as an individual.
I would like to see the questions that I have not yet answered that “challenge the doctrine” on the “boards” where you posted. Post the questions right here, and let me know the original posting place and date. I’d like to go to whatever site(s) you are referring to and see what you are saying.
I will gladly address your questions right here at the café. Frankly, I am looking forward to our discussion.
I don’t recall seeing your screen name, “dancing,” anywhere but here. Are you posting under a different name? If so, what is it?
Why am I posting here? Who do I work for?
In 2004 I published a book titled, The Prophecy. I also launched a Web site: www.thetimeline.org. The book is published on the site and can be read by anyone, anytime, without charge. There are additional articles that are parallel to the book.
The Prologue of the book speaks of cutting-edge scientific evidence: ancient fossils, Middle-East archaeology (which is also found in chapter 2), and astronomical evidence. It allows the reader to see that scientists and the Bible can speak with one voice.
From the Prologue, the book moves into life… salvation in this life through the Messiah, and the future salvation that will follow when Christ descends in the clouds to transform his church—which ushers in the next life. Additionally, the book goes back in time to the days when Lucifer’s self-serving lust for power and worship caused him to fall from grace—and the response that followed: the prophecy of a Messiah.
This book is self-published. I paid for its printing.
Why did I write it? I was inspired to do so. You can read about it in the book.
Who do I work for? Christ: my Lord and Savior.
Why am I posting here? I want to.
In the case of this thread, it is about being delivered from the lie of the “signless” theory of Christ’s descent for the church.
Who is feeding me the “doctrine” on this thread? Matthew, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, Joel, Isaiah, Daniel… You know them: the prophets and the apostles.
Why do I post? I am compelled to do it. How could I not? I love shedding divine light on Satan’s lies.
Wouldn’t Christ want his own church to recognize that his descent to transform us will follow specific solar and lunar signs?
Wouldn’t Christ want his own church to know that his glory will be revealed to the world when he descends in the clouds for us?
Why else would he give us this revelation unless he wanted made known?
I took the time to read your post revvel. And I appreciate your calm reply.
As far as what you are presenting and have presented, it is a theory not based on actual experience and living the events that are laid out in the book of Revelations. Which is really the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Which is the coming of the Lord and the day of the Lord. It is Christ coming.
All of what you propose is in the future basically and cannot be proven or disproven by science or theosophy.
You question whether or not I am born again, which leads me to think that you have not experienced this revelation. Have you questioned yourself about the same thing?
Sure it's fine to live a moral and upright life and do right things from the heart. Anyone can do that from the heart. It is within us and always has been and always will be.
In your response to me and in your theory you are cutting certain people out of what God has already planned and prepared for them. Born again or not, the Spirit that sleeps within will awaken and the day of the Lord will be at hand. Physical death has no bearing on this reality. Jesus Christ defeated death so it is done.
The problem most people face is seeing it for themselves. And not hearing it from someone who says that what was done really got done. When one sees it for themselves then it is truly theirs and no one can take what God has set in the heart.
What I see you doing with the revelation of Jesus Christ is putting it in the future and out of reach for men and women. This is not true at all. What God did and what John and Paul and the rest are talking about is the Revelation of Jesus Christ and experiencing it first hand.
Instead of seeing this as a present tense reality that can be attained in this life you have put most of it as an after physical death experience.
To put it quite bluntly-dead or alive you are coming with me.-God
Honestly, I couldn't help but notice you didn't include in your response the "questions."
On June 3, you posted this: "Also why do you insist on not answering questions that really challenge the docrtrine on any of the boards I posted about what you are presenting."
I would like to see the questions that I have not yet answered that “challenge the doctrine” on the “boards” where you posted. Post the questions right here, and let me know the original posting place and date. I’d like to go to whatever site(s) you are referring to and see what you are saying.
I will gladly address your questions right here at the café.
I don’t recall seeing your screen name, “dancing,” anywhere but here. Are you posting under a different name? If so, what is it?
revvel I saw many questions that were not answered that you didn't see. You may not have understood them as such. So I don't attribute this to intentional avoiding answering questions. Every one will miss some. You have this on so many boards I will not take the time to go through it with you. It wouldn't benefit either of us.
Here's a few thoughts. What does what you are presenting have in it from God to us now? I as well as many here at this place have been promised many things from the bible yet have not seen them come to pass in the here and now. What is it that they had in the book of Acts that was so powerful and life changing for so many?
Hope for the future? Pretty much had it with the carrot on the stick deal. What about what can be had and experienced now and seen.
John was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day. Is not every day the Lords?
The sights and sounds and heart described in the revelation of Jesus Christ will be unique to each individual.
Of course it's figurative language (figurative for lack of a better word). There are no words that can say it like it's experienced.
The signs will be seen by those experiencing Christ and to the very very very few that can see. No not that we look for them, they just happen as promised and what they are will be seen more clearly every day which is the Lord's.
It's easy to sit back and say this and that will happen untill you are in the eye of the storm, in the arms of Christ the Lord. Everything open and naked in front of his eyes. No condemnation, no judgement meaning punishment. So much has been misunderstood.
Last question. What is the greatest thing besides hope and faith?
It'll be there buddy, you can count on it because He is love.
He cannot escape Himself, nor have we ever been out of his love.
It is the goodness of God. Yes fear God. Why?
A lot less that we have to unload when the time comes.
And the time will come. Absolutely.
His thoughts are higher then ours.....
It'll be quite the surprise in this little cracker jack box of flesh.
John was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day. Is not every day the Lords?
Everyday is The Almighty's and we are to rejoice and be glad in it.
The Lords Day in Revelation is Jesus Christ's.
revvel
He [the Antichrist] will confirm a covenant [an agreement] with many [of Daniel’s people: “Israel”] for one “seven” [the final seven years of Daniel’s prophecy]. (Dan. 9:27)
How do we know today that it will be the Antichrist who signs the peace agreement? The prophecy goes on to say this: “In the middle of the “seven”[the final seven years] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him” (Dan. 9:27). It is the Antichrist who will “put an end to sacrifice and offering,” “set up an abomination that causes desolation,” and who will witness “the end . . . poured out on him.”
The peace agreement between Israel and the enemy of God will mark the start of the final seven years of Daniel’s prophecy—which applies to the followers of the Old Covenant.
What is the significance of this to the followers of the New Covenant? Where will Christ’s church be when this peace agreement is signed? The church will already be gathered into Heaven. (See chapters 2, 3, and 4 of The Prophecy.)
The Gaza pullout is a major step forward in the peace process. Truly, events are moving toward the peace agreement, and the church will not be here to see it. That’s how close we are to the fulfillment of Christ’s prophecy regarding his return for us.
On June 3, you posted this: "Also why do you insist on not answering questions that really challenge the docrtrine on any of the boards I posted about what you are presenting."
I still haven't seen these questions that "challenge the doctrine."
I am asking you to be honest about this. That's all.
Cut and paste the questions you personally posted from the "boards" here, (questions that you claim I failed to answer).... or acknowledge that there is nothing to paste.
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revvel
Hello dancing,
Interesting post.
Before I directly respond, I’d like to know if you believe what Christ said to Nicodemus:
Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him.” In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.”
“How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!”
“Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. “Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’” (John 3:1-7)
dancing…
Do you believe Christ… that we must be born again?
Are you born again?
If you are in the body of Christ... curious... what were you taught about Christ’s descent for the church?
“Signless” event?
After the wrath?
What do you believe today about Christ’s return in the clouds for the church?
I look forward to hearing from you.
God bless.
revvel
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dancing
I will answer none of your questions.
You wouldn't know what I was talking about.
Besides you didn't answer mine.
You are here for a purpose that someone set in your mind.
Who is it? Who is feeding it to you? Why do you post it?
If it's just you then you are really in need of some help.
Also why do you insist on not answering questions that really challenge the docrtrine on any of the boards I posted about what you are presenting.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls...gma&btnG=Search
I'm not afraid of wrath.
I've been to Hell I don't have to run from it anymore.
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dancing
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allan w.
I called the shot on Clay and Todd....seems I was right about you too Dancing....such a shame.
Enjoying the posts Revvel !!
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dancing
Do you even know anything allan? hmmm
Are you really that dumb?
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dancing
You two, allan and revvel are in some kind of cult maybe?
Allan has already been found as "pastor allan" of pfal Australia.
Now let's see who revvel is working for. Maybe for Allan?
I don't go to or belong to any kind of religion or anything else.
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dancing
I think I'll put both allan and revvel on ignore.
Tired of ignorance and stupidity.
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Sunesis
Dancing, you're new here, but I don't understand your hostility. Sure, Revvel posts on a lot of other boards, so what? Why are you so angry at him?
I for one, and others, have enjoyed reading this, its food for thought - whether one chooses to believe it or not. This is the "Doctrinal" section where doctrine is discussed, and Revvel has every right to post.
Revvel, I've really enjoyed this, I can't "discuss" it with you because I pretty much agree with everything you've shared, and hope you will continue to share with us.
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CWF
revvel
Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?” I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore, “they are before the throne of God and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them. Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst. The sun will not beat upon them, nor any scorching heat. For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; he will lead them to springs of living water. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.” (Rev. 7:9-17)
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. KJV[/u]
I think verse 14 is the key that these people are not us. We have not washed our own robes and made them white, because salvation is received by grace upon belief and not by works.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
We are washed by the finished works of Christ in this age.
Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things:
If it was hid, then it was hid, and everything about it.
Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
I believe we are unique!
Dancing,
What are you all torqued about?
There are many takes on end times.
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revvel
Hello dancing,
You have made it clear that you have a different perspective. That’s fine… This is a forum… People are going to agree and disagree all day long… This is a place to provoke thought through intelligent debate.
To begin…
Yes… I am posting on other sites. To my knowledge, I have addressed every question I have received. I address people the same way I do here: respect anyone who posts, and try to respond as soon as possible, with Scripture.
This thread is about “the day of the Lord”: the divine harmony of divine revelation from the Gospel of Matthew to the Book of Revelation, and the parallel prophecies in the Old Testament. This thread is not about me; it is about Christ and divine revelation.
Honestly, I do not know what you are referring to with regard to your “questions” that I have not answered. The only questions that I know you posed are in this forum, and I will now answer them.
I only asked questions of you in order to better respond to you as an individual.
I would like to see the questions that I have not yet answered that “challenge the doctrine” on the “boards” where you posted. Post the questions right here, and let me know the original posting place and date. I’d like to go to whatever site(s) you are referring to and see what you are saying.
I will gladly address your questions right here at the café. Frankly, I am looking forward to our discussion.
I don’t recall seeing your screen name, “dancing,” anywhere but here. Are you posting under a different name? If so, what is it?
Why am I posting here? Who do I work for?
In 2004 I published a book titled, The Prophecy. I also launched a Web site: www.thetimeline.org. The book is published on the site and can be read by anyone, anytime, without charge. There are additional articles that are parallel to the book.
The Prologue of the book speaks of cutting-edge scientific evidence: ancient fossils, Middle-East archaeology (which is also found in chapter 2), and astronomical evidence. It allows the reader to see that scientists and the Bible can speak with one voice.
From the Prologue, the book moves into life… salvation in this life through the Messiah, and the future salvation that will follow when Christ descends in the clouds to transform his church—which ushers in the next life. Additionally, the book goes back in time to the days when Lucifer’s self-serving lust for power and worship caused him to fall from grace—and the response that followed: the prophecy of a Messiah.
This book is self-published. I paid for its printing.
Why did I write it? I was inspired to do so. You can read about it in the book.
Who do I work for? Christ: my Lord and Savior.
Why am I posting here? I want to.
In the case of this thread, it is about being delivered from the lie of the “signless” theory of Christ’s descent for the church.
Who is feeding me the “doctrine” on this thread? Matthew, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, Joel, Isaiah, Daniel… You know them: the prophets and the apostles.
Why do I post? I am compelled to do it. How could I not? I love shedding divine light on Satan’s lies.
Wouldn’t Christ want his own church to recognize that his descent to transform us will follow specific solar and lunar signs?
Wouldn’t Christ want his own church to know that his glory will be revealed to the world when he descends in the clouds for us?
Why else would he give us this revelation unless he wanted made known?
I look forward to hearing from you.
God bless.
revvel
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dancing
I took the time to read your post revvel. And I appreciate your calm reply.
As far as what you are presenting and have presented, it is a theory not based on actual experience and living the events that are laid out in the book of Revelations. Which is really the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Which is the coming of the Lord and the day of the Lord. It is Christ coming.
All of what you propose is in the future basically and cannot be proven or disproven by science or theosophy.
You question whether or not I am born again, which leads me to think that you have not experienced this revelation. Have you questioned yourself about the same thing?
Sure it's fine to live a moral and upright life and do right things from the heart. Anyone can do that from the heart. It is within us and always has been and always will be.
In your response to me and in your theory you are cutting certain people out of what God has already planned and prepared for them. Born again or not, the Spirit that sleeps within will awaken and the day of the Lord will be at hand. Physical death has no bearing on this reality. Jesus Christ defeated death so it is done.
The problem most people face is seeing it for themselves. And not hearing it from someone who says that what was done really got done. When one sees it for themselves then it is truly theirs and no one can take what God has set in the heart.
What I see you doing with the revelation of Jesus Christ is putting it in the future and out of reach for men and women. This is not true at all. What God did and what John and Paul and the rest are talking about is the Revelation of Jesus Christ and experiencing it first hand.
Instead of seeing this as a present tense reality that can be attained in this life you have put most of it as an after physical death experience.
To put it quite bluntly-dead or alive you are coming with me.-God
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revvel
Hello dancing,
Honestly, I couldn't help but notice you didn't include in your response the "questions."
On June 3, you posted this: "Also why do you insist on not answering questions that really challenge the docrtrine on any of the boards I posted about what you are presenting."
I would like to see the questions that I have not yet answered that “challenge the doctrine” on the “boards” where you posted. Post the questions right here, and let me know the original posting place and date. I’d like to go to whatever site(s) you are referring to and see what you are saying.
I will gladly address your questions right here at the café.
I don’t recall seeing your screen name, “dancing,” anywhere but here. Are you posting under a different name? If so, what is it?
God bless.
revvel
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revvel
Hello CWF,
Thanks for looking at the sixth seal.
I'll have my response in the near future.
God bless.
revvel
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dancing
lol....there are always questions, even in what i posted
i can't help but notice that you don't
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allan w.
You might find that Dancings' other name was Clay.
aka...CM
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dancing
allan finally coming to think a bit huh...
revvel I saw many questions that were not answered that you didn't see. You may not have understood them as such. So I don't attribute this to intentional avoiding answering questions. Every one will miss some. You have this on so many boards I will not take the time to go through it with you. It wouldn't benefit either of us.
Here's a few thoughts. What does what you are presenting have in it from God to us now? I as well as many here at this place have been promised many things from the bible yet have not seen them come to pass in the here and now. What is it that they had in the book of Acts that was so powerful and life changing for so many?
Hope for the future? Pretty much had it with the carrot on the stick deal. What about what can be had and experienced now and seen.
John was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day. Is not every day the Lords?
The sights and sounds and heart described in the revelation of Jesus Christ will be unique to each individual.
Of course it's figurative language (figurative for lack of a better word). There are no words that can say it like it's experienced.
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dancing
The signs will be seen by those experiencing Christ and to the very very very few that can see. No not that we look for them, they just happen as promised and what they are will be seen more clearly every day which is the Lord's.
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dancing
It's easy to sit back and say this and that will happen untill you are in the eye of the storm, in the arms of Christ the Lord. Everything open and naked in front of his eyes. No condemnation, no judgement meaning punishment. So much has been misunderstood.
Last question. What is the greatest thing besides hope and faith?
It'll be there buddy, you can count on it because He is love.
He cannot escape Himself, nor have we ever been out of his love.
It is the goodness of God. Yes fear God. Why?
A lot less that we have to unload when the time comes.
And the time will come. Absolutely.
His thoughts are higher then ours.....
It'll be quite the surprise in this little cracker jack box of flesh.
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CWF
Dancing
Everyday is The Almighty's and we are to rejoice and be glad in it.The Lords Day in Revelation is Jesus Christ's.
revvel
Are you setting the clock to this event?
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allan w.
mmhhmm...I saw through your guise your first or second post CM/Clay/Dancing !!
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dancing
Are you wanting a date with me or something allan w.?
Following me around like dog in heat!
I'm not that kind of guy!
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allan w.
No...just be a bit more honest, up-front with who you are.
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dancing
I've seen what you do when I tell the TRUTH allan w.
I will not be subject to your stupidity anymore.
And I'm always honest.
I honestly don't care whether you think I am or not.
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revvel
Hello dancing/CM/Clay,
On June 3, you posted this: "Also why do you insist on not answering questions that really challenge the docrtrine on any of the boards I posted about what you are presenting."
I still haven't seen these questions that "challenge the doctrine."
I am asking you to be honest about this. That's all.
Cut and paste the questions you personally posted from the "boards" here, (questions that you claim I failed to answer).... or acknowledge that there is nothing to paste.
revvel
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