Here are some excellent quotes from those 4 archival threads recommended by Mark:
Per Sunesis:
I've posted this before, but will do so in condensed form.
Why did VP have this stuff? Because he was a member of the Liberty Lobby, which also printed a magazine called the Spotlight.
The Liberty Lobby is an organization based in Washington D.C. that is a political "front" for White Supremist groups. It is the "respectable" political umbrella for these various white supremist organizations.
7th corps, remember our "secret constitution" that was passed out to us? I still have it. Right on the inside back cover is an order form to subscribe to the Spotlight and membership in the Liberty Lobby.
All his advanced class tapes regarding the Illuminati, Trilateral Commission, etc. - the "heavy" stuff that was taught, were tapes that came from the Liberty Lobby.
VP also had a "hotline" number he could call with all the latest conspiracy updates. This came straight from someone who worked closely with him. Remember Malpack? Head for the hills? We must stand or our country is going to fall? All this was brought to you courtesy of the Liberty Lobby. VP then taught it and acted like it was his revelation.
Remember the Jim Jones suicides, how it was really done by the government, etc.? Thank you Liberty Lobby!
Remember when Wheaties Box and Olympic star Bob Richards came to speak to us at corps week one year? Gee, he was the Populist Party (they are the political arm of the Liberty Lobby) presidential candidate that year - what a coincidence he would take time out of his busy schecule to talk to us and schmooze with VP.
Those of you who have those books, one of them, the Myth of the 6 million, or 13th Tribe is only published by the Liberty Lobby's bookstore.
VP was a white supremist, but it was not something he spoke about in public. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble. Research the Liberty Lobby.
Sunesis, cont:
used to visit HQ in '71 while still in high school, we had moved from NY to Columbus, so it was an easy trip. We knew people there, would hang out in friends' units, etc. I had seen some spotlight magazines at one time - I forget exactly where or when - they were more like large pamplets. That's why when we got our new "secret constitutions" and there was the Spotlight subscription form, I thought, oh - nothing really about it, but oh, yeah, I've seen this before.
I think Igotout put a copy of the back cover here in a thread once - I think he still has his also.
I had always wondered where VP got all this "top secret" "heavy" government info he only shared in the advanced class. It wasn't until I read the book years later on staff that everything fell into place.
Also, quite a few of his top guys were avid readers of Soldier of Fortune Magazine - you know survival stuff, etc. I read it for awhile on the recommendation of one Rev. while on staff at hq. VPs bodyguards were sent for training at one of these militia camps in the southwest. I know they were thrown out of one, and ended up training at another. Just, a lot of b.s. stuff went on.
Per Socks:
I've done some poking around trying to get a better grip on the foundations for the "law of believing" as it's so often articulated in religious teaching. One of the most striking examples I found was the belief in Xeper ("Khefer"), or "coming in to being", going back to Eqyptian religious "cult" beliefs. The ritualistic approach to perparing a physical and mental place for the future you want to "bring in to being" struck me as being very similar to the rituals many Christians will set up to build an alternate reality to the one they perceive - one they're "believing" to come into being. Those who pursue Xeper as a philosphy often view "the prince of darkness" as a ruling power of this universe whose image was confiscated by Christian religions and turned in to the Devil. So for them, it's a matter of perspective.
Thanks Sunesis. I stopped short with my example. The only person I've talked to about this idea of "Xeper" led me to investigate it a little more and I saw so many similarities to some "Christian" thinking, but from a very different perspective. One was that a "master" race of enlightened people was inevitable, it was just a matter of how organized they were towards their goals that would determine their impact. Impact socially, intellectually, artistically, etc. was expected and desired. Equality was embraced but with the understanding that not everyone was going to be enlightened.
There wasn't an aggression towards those who wouldn't be but an understanding that those who did would achieve true levels of personal growth and would "tap" in to higher levels of power. Domination of lesser minded people would be the progression by natural process. In fact, understanding that would allow a person to not get hung up in all of the world's problems that aren't going to be solved for some people no matter what. They could be solved by intellectually and spiritually evolved people but ultimately everyone could opt in at some level. If it was simply to get the benefits that part of the population would be ruled by those who have the solutions.
Where this differs from standard capitalism is that the real goal isn't greed, personal gain for it's own reward and at other's expense. Rather it's for the purpose of acheiving one's own "real" purpose in life, being who they are truly destined to be by being free of the restrictions of accepted moral thought and following their god. This follower of Xeper assumed they would be superior by virtue of the fact that they weren't bound personally by the limitations of religion, politics, etc. The morals that result from this and from following their god -the prince of darkness- would be the "right ones" but may be very different from standard Golden Rule stuff. Alternative pursuits and experience could and would lead a person into enlightenment, extreme stuff like pain, or it might be academic pursuits. The possibilities are endless.
So with ths you'll dominate as a natural result and there will be those who follow, serve and support the superior individual. "It's as it should be" is how it would be viewed.
A merciful God who loves everyone, forgives, gives altruistically doesn't figure in the same way. "Mercy" isn't really a factor. People get what they achieve, period. If the result of that is one's the master, the other the slave, that's what they've achieved for themselves. It's an interesting view and not completely foreign when I look at some of the Ways' specific teachings on believing, rewards, giving and receiving.
By emphasizing the individual out of context with the "body" you can end up in a similar mindset, an enlightened group of "discplined" ones who "really" run the world. Who are "advancing" and have the "advantage" in life. Who accept that people are to be treated differently because some aren't as good as they are.
Then, by emphasizing that the individual is nothing without the "household" you end up with a captive congregation. People have to stay to survive by that logic, even if it's at a subjugated level of participation. Better to stay and get beat up on than leave and "die". Without all of the rest of the teaching of Jesus and the N.T. balancing it constantly it will get pretty weird, as we've seen in the Way over the years.
Per Microbe:
I recently saw "A Beautiful Mind" and wonder if that was not where our MOG was? (Not that he had a "beautful" mind, the delusions I mean.) I remember him telling the Corps about the times he would sit in a chair in his "room" for hours and hours, under such incredible stress that all he could do was hang on until it was clear that Michael had won that particular battle. It required his total concentration and nothing helped. People (his wife etc) had to just leave him alone in the dark for extended periods of time. He described it as something like mental torture. He stood in the GAP! He never mentioned Jesus Christ as far as I remember. At the time it sounded to me (not a doctor - ok) like the man was suffering anxiety attacks. He also said he had trouble sleeping and was seeking medical attention. His MD, a believer, of course dismissed this and calmed his concerns about mental stress. Of course he was sound minded-he just had to save the world!
Per toto:
Anyway, I only remember a couple of things -- lots of chatter about gold and some discussion on wilderness survival. The most shocking thing I remember is some big-wig (perhaps VP himself) saying that if it came down to the survival of you or your children, the children should be sacrificed because "you hold the word" -- and then some insanity about how you could make more.
It was so hush-hush that we had to gather up our notes and hand them in late at night to be disposed of -- I think they were burnt.
Per Sunesis:
Boy, sounds like one of VPW's private inner teachings. Sacrifice your kids you can always have more.... No wonder abortion to him was no big deal.
This piece of advice goes beyond all human instinct and decency. Most parents in a war situation, will do anything and everything, to the point of giving up their lives, so that their children will survive. I think about the Jews who shipped their kids off to England or other places to live with strangers during the war. Many of those kids parents never came to claim them after the war.
No question, every parent I know would sacrifice their life for their child if circumstances mandated they do so.
Makes you wonder about what VP thought of his own kids, makes you wonder, was VP without "natural affection" for his children. That statement shows an extremely narcissisitic, cold person.
Per QamiQazi:
This was a "spectacle." It was calculated to induce paranoia and obedience.
We were so impressed if something was "heavy." Heavy stuff, man. We were living in the Old Testament, heads filled with wizardry (we called it "power" but hell, we may as well have called it "the Force" since God had nothing to do with it).
It was evidence of being "spiritual" if it was:
- revealed with an air of mystery or urgency
- capricious
- illogical
- shocking
- referenced anywhere in the Word by a certified "man of God"
- and of course, if it was in any way "heavy"
We just sucked that stuff up. Who needed to play "Dungeons and Dragons?" We were living it. It was a dark carnival, costumed in biblical jargon, a dog and pony show, where we began as the audience and became the dogs and the ponies. The bible could convince us of anything they wanted it to. And it did.
Per LarryP2:
The man's astonishing lack of prophetic ability never ceases to amaze me. Let's see, in slightly over a decade, Soviet communism would utterly collapse from its own internal contradictions, it's massive military undone without firing a shot, and its discredited ideology cast on the "ash heap of history."
I remember well the summer of 1990 when I lived in Europe. You knew something very very big was in the air, and it had nothing to do with the grim vicicitudes of war. It was all peace and love and all us guys gawking at naked Israeli chicks on the beaches of Greek Islands. Ol' Gorby was everybody's hero.
The average drunken Romanian chimney sweep in the bars in downtown Athens had more intuition about the future of communism than Weirwille did. "Communishum sucks Baby." The Russians were absolutely certain that in a few days the Soviet Union would become a little America with Mcdonalds on every corner and nobody would have to work or eat beet soup or rotten potatoes ever again. It was quite a shock coming as an ideology-addled undergraduate from America.
We had more important things to worry about in 1979, like exploding gas tanks on Pintos, heat rash from all that double-knit polyester, and falling off our platform disco shoes.
You heard it on a tape that JAL did when he first left TWI. He said that Geer was the one who was into all the survival, espionage type stuff and really influenced VP a great deal. I've heard that from others who were in the Corps with CG as well.
Conspiracy theories abounded in TWI. From Peter Beter (yes, that was his name), who was sure the Russians had some kind of beam weapons that hovered over the earth that could cause earthquakes or vaporize ships, buildings, airplanes - you name it. I think he was the man who brought that "New Constitution" stuff to TWI as well.
There was also a bunch of information spewed out about a secret organization called "The Illumanati" who were supposedly in favor of one world government and believed that world bankers, who were mostly Jews, manipulated all the nations on earth.
And of course, there was our beloved Beatle blaster, David Noebel who believed that Rock and Roll was a communist plot to win over the minds of America's youth and cause a revolution - in which the Russians were prepared to step in and take over.
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Per Hope R.:
Most of the theories were about the "New World Order" and the evils of the United Nations, The Council on Foreign Relations, the Freemasons and any other powerful world organization that wasn't Christian in nature.
"None Dare Call It Conspiracy" by Gary Allen was the basis for all this paranoia.
Then later, after I graduated, LCM took over and instituted the MAL packs (Mobile something or other)and we on the field had to be ready to duck and cover when the Commies came to take over by having enough food and water stored in our homes for at least 6 months.
I can't remember all of the conspiracy theories - but they seemed to be endless. I know they weren't a part of TWI when I got involved - they came a few years later. It is very possible that CG introduced them to VP and TWI. Anyone else know?
Per ex10:
OK, I'll tell what I know about the whole MAL fiasco at Emporia when the 8th and 10th were in-rez. Like any good reporter, I can't reveal my source, but it was someone who was very close to that situation.
When VPW came to Emporia talking about the world as we knew it falling apart, etc., etc. LCM, in his usual style, over-reacted. He was the one (with the help of a couple of 8th corps who were equally stupid) who thought up the whole MAL backpack, head for the hills, we all had to go underground program. It was all LCM. I know for sure that CG had nothing to do with that.
I don't think that CG introduced the Paranoia conspiracy stuff. VPW was that way all on his own, but CG definitely FED it, and like LCM, tended to over react, in typical form. You gotta remember, that LCM was extrememly loyal to VP, and thought that everything out of his mouth was revelation, as did CG. When VP called his corps meetings and scared the heck out of everybody letting his paranoia show, LCM felt it was his responsibility as Director of the Corps (remember he still lived at Emporia, not HQ yet) to follow through and devise a plan of escape for the corps.
I know when I find this stuff out after the POOP explosion, it helped me put some puzzling pieces of life in WayWorld together, and further conviced me that LCM was unstable and not to be trusted. Maybe it will help someone else as well.
Per TheEvan:
Get this...MAL meant More Abundant Life!
HAWHAWHAWHAWHAWHAWSNORT!
Zix, Geer & I took the advanced class together in '71 and Wierwille was a full-tilt conspiracy nut already. As an avid and serious minded Wierwille-worshipper, Geer took it from Wierwille and ran with it. He was a creepy roomate, btw. I liked the other guys in the cabin better...John Nave, Bruce Mahone, etc...I had a blast.
To quote Peter Beter (yes, pronounced Beater) "THE DYNASTY HAS TAKEN ALLLLLLL THE GOLD!"
Per igotout:
Quote from VPW to me and another girl named Cathy in 1978:
"Kids, there's no gold left in Ft. Knox. If the interest rates go down by one more point our country is finished."
Stunned, I said what can we do about it. He said there is no hope left for our country except the ministry and moving God's Word.
Per grasshopper:
I just thought of 2 more wierd Way things:
When I took Marty's very first PFAL AC, I remember him getting up at lunch and talking about how he believed the US Government was behind the Oklahoma Federal Building bombing. Basically blamed Clinton saying he set it up so he could build up his popularity by handling a national tragedy.
I also remember my local way corps telling me that Al Gore had a plan for international genocide so he could save the earth from over-population.
Jeez, dumba**es like me would just eat that stuff up and believe it. Maybe it's because I always liked Sci-Fi.
Per LarryP2:
The heck of it all is that Weirwille had all these gullible people flocking to his cult, and they paid like sin for unvarnished swill. What garbage! How can anyone have fond recollections of this cult when it so obviously was designed to nakedly skin alive gullible and tenderminded people as efficiently as possible?
Per igotout:
Grasshopper, I too heard LCM say specifically that the government orchestrated the OK City bombing and that McVeigh was simply a pawn in the game. It was in a private Corps meeting in Rome City.
Among other loud rantings he said something like "Why is it that no Federal government workers were at work that day in the building?!!" I thought that was an odd thing to say and obviously untrue.
He really believed it. He always used to get real mad when a huge world event happened. And of course he always seemed to have the "real truth" behind it before long and would find an audience to yell it to, usually the submissive Way Corps whom he forced to sit at his smelly feet, while they scribbled furiously on their notepads.
Frankly, I think some of this dumbass thinking comes from minds that can not handle facing the harsh realities of life. Some sort of an escape mechanism or deep denial.
Per Buck:
I know you guys have sort of moved on from the "MAL" thing, but I just gotta weigh in here. I was in the Tenth Corps, and it was in October of '79 (I think it was October)
EX10, Do you remember the first night the whole thing came down? It was really scary. I remember Richard Thomas getting up front and dropping the first bombshell. I can almost quote it verbatim. He said; "How many of you can go back to your dorms and pack up a duffel bag, or back pack, or suitcase that you could live out of, survive out of for the next two years in the wilderness and be back here in fifteen minutes?" And EX10, weren't we then sent to our dorms right then to do just that? That part is foggy. I thought we did. But I do remember getting back and then having a major powow about it. I remember Craig standing up there talking about an economic collapse, and there being anarchy in the streets, and looters and rioters in the streets and that we in the Corps had to stay alive to keep the Word alive. And then, one of our sweet sisters from Scotland, Allison Smith, stood up and with her extremely strong Scottish brogue, stood up and said; "Craig, we doon't knoow, what ye re talkin aboot. You are talkin' about guns and and survival and alot of things that're scairin us. And we from Europe are particulary scared because we are so far away from our hooms". And to that Craig screamed at her went on a major tirade about "someone caving your head in with a monkey wrench to take the bread you have under your arm so that they can feed it to their family " etc etc. There was also talk about the government mobilizing the military to put us all (all Americans that is) in "work camps" after the all of the guns had been collected, so that the anarchy could be put down and order restored. But really, once that order had been restored, we would stay in the work camps which really would be prison camps, once They got control of the citizenry.
And because of this immediate threat, we in the Corps had to head for the hills so that the Word could stay alive. And remember how things evolved? As the weeks went by, we had all broken into MAL groups like platoons? In fact I was a MAL group coordinator. Ooorah! We would meet in these groups and plan our ecscape, and see how everybody was doing when it came to aquiring the necessary MAL pack gear. Each person in the group had a different responsibility. We had a very cool group. One gal was a nurse and had lived in a commune in Washington State and had been good at growing organic gardens. I was the hunting/fishing guy, another gal had four different rifles and shot guns, another was a gal who was the identical twin to my girlfriend who was out on the field in Colorado. There were two other guys in the group.
Our plan was to head out to Creed, Colorado where I knew of some old silver mine shafts, and where I "thought" there would be plenty fish and game. On the way there, I would stop and pick up my girlfriend in Pueblo. We would wait out "the storm" in the mountains near Creed, and survive so the Word could live and then our lives could "continue to tell the story".
We had classes on "escape and evasion", one class was whipped together called "Abounding In The Wilderness" w/ Rev. John B. and as people began to get their MAL packs together and collect wool clothes that were best for survival purposes, the "style on campus" began to change too. People began to wear their heavy German Army wool pants to class, wool US Army sweaters, heavy hiking boots, and oh yea Balaklavas! Everybody had wool Balaklava hats! Remember that? We called it "The MAL Look" I can still see Bob and Constance Darnell all decked out in full MAL regalia walking along the circle drive...
I also remember everybody having to keep their gas tanks full at all times, and "red tagging any files in their Pendaflex file boxes that might be incriminating to them. You know, files that might have the addresses of our families in it or MAL info in them. These files were to be red tagged so that they could be dumped into the incinerator at a moments notice should the sign be given for us to "split out like a ball of mercury hit with a ball peen hammer" as I think Richard T said we were to do.
At one point, it was so organized that TWI just went and paid for everybody to have a "fully loaded" MAL pack, and all we had to do was pay it back by getting our sponsors to send more money. My whole pack cost around 300 dollars. But after we made the comittment to pay back TWI, then we had to go and meet with Rev. John B. so he could check on our progress in getting the money paid. Alot of us jokingly called him "Chairman MAL". He had a MAL Office somewhere up in the reaches of Kenyon Auditorium where these one on one conferences took place. I remember distinctly sitting in study hall in top floor Wierwille and having the AC come up and read a list of names and for these people to go "to The MAL Office" to see John, to see Chairman MAL. Finally, my name was called too. It seemed that everybody traded grim looks when we had to get up to go see Chairman MAL. But I finally got it paid off, and I still have alot of that stuff to this day. Good camping equipment really..
And we had alot of great teachings about survival and abounding in the wilderness. Alot of practical questions arose like: "What are the girls going to do when they have their periods?" The answer? Silk Sea Sponges! These are small sponges from the sea that are about as big as a wallnut or a plum that could be used for this purpose. I'll always remember the day when the Silk Sea Sponges came in. Not all of the girls ordered them, but many did. And when they arrived via UPS or whatever, they were distributed up in top floor Wierwille during study hall. I can still see Gary M. up there when he first opened up a box of sponges. He put one in his mouth and started chewing on it and acting funny and making all the guys horse laugh and the girls go "Eeeewwww!" And then each gal was called to the front to pick up their sponges to the many more "horse laughs" from the boys. The girls were funny about it too by the way. I mean so many of us were becoming fast friends by then..
Yeah, MAl Pack. What a "time of adventure". After awhile we (at least me and a few of my friends) became so used to the idea, one pal just came out with it and said; "****, it's been almost two months of this now, I wish we would just get it over with and go do it. I mean think about it "Buck", us all being out there in the wild, livin off the fatta of the land, no rules but our own, fu--in on a flat rock out in the sunshine, I'm ready to go!"
Yeah, after awhile, after the idea had begun to settle in and didn't seem so scary after all. It gave "us men" a feeling of "cavalier bravado" ya know..
Oh brother, it was really weird huh? And, I will say that MAL officially stood for "Mobile Abundant Life". I know, Chairman MAL told me so..
Per George Aar:
I'm really not trying to exaggerate or be overly dramatic, but I think VP was more patterning himself after Hitler.
The empassioned calls to service, the ribbons, the pomp and ceremony. Even at the time I thought that the W.O.W. "pinning" event was reminiscent of a Hitler Youth Rally.
Yeah, and the idea that "the suggestion of a Man of God is tantamount to a command" is a really cool concept for a pompous, self-important, demi-god.
I also remember Mr. Wierwille's explanation of why he didn't serve in WWII. Something about a heart-wrenching decision that eventually resulted in him concluding that he could better serve by staying stateside and writing tepid religious tracts about victory. Yeah, how selfless of him...
Per GrouchoMarxJr:
I agree wholeheartedly with the Invisible Dan...Mr. Wierwille was more patterned after Hitler than anyone else I can think of. Remember how he pushed "The myth of the six million" and other fascist writings? I heard him say that Hitler had some "pretty good ideas" and "people didn't appreciate his leadership qualities from a historical perspective". Veepee loved the military analogies...that's one of the reasons that he was so upset at lcm's AOS. teachings. Martindale replaced the military comparisons with athletic terms. Old Vic never passed up an opprotunity to have military wafers dress up in full uniform for him and even salute him!!! He loved all the flag waving pomp...I'm surprised he didn't make the corps goosestep
Per WordWolf:
quote:
Originally posted by UncleHairy:I agree wholeheartedly with the Invisible Dan...Mr. Wierwille was more patterned after Hitler than anyone else I can think of. Remember how he pushed "The myth of the six million" and other fascist writings?
On the internet, it's common to hear analogies and comparisons to Hitler. This would make such a claim easy to ignore, if vpw hadn't pushed "Myth of the Six Million" and didn't have a history of pushing a political agenda of his own. Does anyone know the name of any other fascism book he promoted?
I heard him say that Hitler had some "pretty good ideas" and "people didn't appreciate his leadership qualities from a historical perspective". Veepee loved the military analogies...that's one of the reasons that he was so upset at lcm's AOS. teachings. Martindale replaced the military comparisons with athletic terms.
Well, that answers a nagging question. We knew vpw wasn't anti-lcm's decisions because of lack of adherence to godly doctrine, but lack of reverence to vpw at the end. We also knew he was AGAINST AOS but we never heard WHY. NOW it makes a lot of sense. vpw was a military/political wannabe, lcm was an athletic wannabe. Both rewrote things to fit their favourite paradigms, mangling them in the process.
Old Vic never passed up an opprotunity to have military wafers dress up in full uniform for him and even salute him!!! He loved all the flag waving pomp...I'm surprised he didn't make the corps goosestep.
I'm not completely sure that wasn't simply more of his love of adulation and having people fawn over him 24/7 as much as a military thing...except he admired how the military commanded loyalty without questioning.
