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Everything posted by skyrider

  1. That teaching tape is from March 1985.....the last Sunday teaching of victor paul wierwille. He died two months later. Wierwille always took to the podium near March 17th....in honor of his older brother, Harry Ernst Wierwille's birthday. In fact, twi made a tradition of it after H.E. died in the Fall of 1977 when vpw instigated the "Burn the Chaff" [travel light] weekends in 1978 and onward. If I recall correctly......this teaching "The Hope" was sent out as a *tape of the month* and long-standing wayfers treasured it for its significance of being wierwille's "last teaching." And, then....it was doubly significant, because he taught "The Hope" and died two months later. So, JJ.........you have in your possession one of the most special, treasured, spiritually-significant, super-duper tapes OF ALL TIME.
  2. Amen.......[on the bold-faced statement above]/ You know........I rarely have agreed with TLC on much, but on THIS.......I AGREE. If twi had stuck to scripture.......ie. "the simplicity that is in Christ.........it would not be circling the drain today!!!
  3. Standing UP.......and Speaking OUT against one's former cult is challenging. Especially, against the deep pockets and zealous fanatics in Scientology. With paid harassers, spies, lies, and private i's........the scientology goons go to your place of employment, harass neighbors and community, spread lies on the internet, doing anything and everything to provoke a response that they can then videotape and smear your reputation and drown your livelihood. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Leah Remini's Final Episode of "Scientology and the Aftermath" Even this New York Post article headlines this story from the Scientology Cult's point of view (smears, character assassination) "..........the final episode of “Scientology and the Aftermath” will air on Aug. 26, at Remini’s behest — it was not canceled. The former Scientologist-turned-anti-Scientology activist has used the Emmy-winning series, which premiered in 2016, to examine the organization’s practices." "..........Remini said thanks in part to the church’s retaliation, doing the show is “emotionally draining."
  4. The evolution of twi.............. Involvement that was simple and carefree ........... before ALL of the evolving definitions Involvement that was youthful and freestyle......... to rigid and legalism Involvement that could be "when I choose" .......... to demanding and onerous Involvement with "friends and fun activities" ........ to boring meetings Involvement to live/see the power of God ............ devolve into religion and worse (cult) Yes, in one's youth......far away from headquarters.........youth were inspiring youth to get involved. What I saw in the early '70s .........was a far cry from what was happening in the '90s. BUT......when I sat back, studied and reviewed ALL of wierwille's history and character, it became obvious that what twi became......is what wierwille was hiding all along. Mrs. Wierwille's book lays out all of the fringe ministries/elements that wierwille encountered. Chapter after chapter.....she honestly lays it out how vpw was "ready to quit," disappointed, perplexed, unsatisfied, and searching for more answers. The denominational environment (rut) was discarded (Dec 1957) when vic fully decided that he could build a class-based ministry like his teacher, Rev. B.G. Leonard in Canada. YET......wierwille did not have the uprightness of heart before God to build his ministry ethically or spiritually on truth and experience. Lots of story-telling to ad-lib his way thru..... but how little was his own life's experiences. He plagiarized Leonard's class fully in the early stages and, with each passing year (1958-1967) added and augmented from Stiles, Bullinger and others, until it was filmed in 1967. SO........ in my youth, I did not connect all the dots of wierwille's behind-the-scenes marketing strategy of pfal. Stories, one-liners, definitions, preemptive strikes against church and family, sleight-of-hand skewing of dispensationalism, rigid private-interpretation of the manifestations, standing in "the household of God," etc. etc. etc. In my youthful exuberance to love and serve God.....it took years and years to see the deception of wierwille's marketing ploy. And, it took years for OTHERS to see it as well...... Jimmy Doop came here to GSC in 2008 to give his last post......of what he experienced.
  5. Sure there are lots of reasons...... But in all that we (most all of us, anyway) were searching for.....concerning them that seduce you in I John 2 lays it out there. We were seduced (away from) ....... having an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous We were seduced (away from) ....... knowing Him, and keeping His commandments We were seduced (away from) ....... having the love of God perfected in us We were seduced (away from) ....... having his anointing (holy spirit) that abided in us, help and guide us Lots of reasons, yes. My in-residence corps training had NOTHING to do with seeking and embracing Jesus Christ, the righteous. My in-residence corps training had EVERYTHING to do with obeying twi-leadership and giving adulation to victor paul wierwille. So, yeah.........as for me and my house, we were seduced. If that's an oversimplification for you, then I just don't have enough time to explain myself concerning this cult's "truth, spiritual enlightenment, knowledge, friends and fellowship, careers, lifestyle changes, bad situations, good times, power and positions, etc. etc. etc."
  6. In one's attempts to understand Twi's evolving definitions.....it's comparable to parsing the stages in Scientology. In biblical terminology, the word that is being danced around here is.........seduce. Those who got involved in wierwille's twi in the late '60s-mid-'80s.....were seduced into his denomination, cult. Sure, many of us remember him standing next to Debra and singing "Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus" [look full in his wonderful face....].........BUT, did we do that? NO. Men like Heefner, Doop, Anderson, and Wade saw it "up close and personal"........and EXITED. IMO........anyone who stayed after 1978 was seduced into his cult. Definitions, groupings, specific applications of service.......look at all the nuance and levels of "commitment" created by wierwille. Unbelieving Believer Inactive Believer Standing Believer Believing Believer EGADS........
  7. So true.......it becomes progressively more nuanced in accordance with your commitment level. At first, you are born just "body and soul" When you receive holy spirit (via the new birth).....you become "body, soul and spirit" complete (#3 = complete) BUT......until you manifest this new creation within you (via speaking in tongues)....you are an "unbelieving believer" (see the nuance) When you manifest holy spirit by speaking in tongues.......you know that you are heaven bound and all hell can't stop you from going (twi-version) BUT......you want to do more than THAT, don't you? Therefore, you need to learn how to do "tongues w/ interpretation and prophecy" (intermediate class) Thus, you now are able to EXHORT and COMFORT others in the ekklesia (the called-out body of believers) in orderly fashion in a believer's mtg BUT......you want to do more than THAT, don't you? Therefore, you need to learn how to operate ALL NINE of the manifestations. Thus, you then need to sit thru twi's advanced class, memorize the 16 keys to walking by the spirit and all definitions of each manifestation. Now......you are FULLY TAUGHT (a mature believer)...........except you need to attend all meetings to be "faithful in the present truth." No matter how many decades you've been in twi.........the board of directors are always the LEADERS, and you are a lowly student. You cannot leave twi EVER.......or you become a cop-out, a greasespot-by-midnight, and if not dead, surely possessed. You are ONLY a "believing believer" as long as you jump thru all of their hoops, adhering to ALL OF THEIR MANDATES AND UPDATED CLASSES. Okay, that's enough............now I've got a frickin' headache. .
  8. "The Way is a fellowship of the followers of the Lord Jesus Christ for the manifestation of the more abundant life. A follower of The Way is filled with and manifests power from on high, holy spirit, and freely avails himself of fellowship meetings for spiritual nurture and growth. The Way fellowship is cemented together by the Spirit of God with each individual believer being transformed by the renewing of his mind according to the Word of God." TRANSLATION: The Way Ministry is a pyramid scheme, where the top Pharaoh/Pharisee mandates policy, and the workers obey with daily tasks of servitude. The servant-follower obeys the chain-of-command by adhering to teachings, classes and home-group meetings of weekly conformity. The Way Group masks its coercion and cohesion by utilizing scripture and factions of pseudo-Christianity to entice new recruits. The deeper chambers of this pyramid reveal that all of these workers and their servitude is for the leisure, lust and longevity of the man-god ruling over them.
  9. Why do splinter groups keep splintering further and further into the Wild Blue Yonder? Highly aggressive (narcissistic) cult individuals have NO other lanes to run in.....but the cult lane. No credentials, no academic achievements, no professional experience......no desire to start at bottom rung. Starting a splinter group.......keeps them from facing the reality of their pitiful, petty cult fantasy world. Must cling to wierwille-brand......otherwise, they lose their base of renewed-mind (LOL) followers. Splinter group leader........sets himself on payroll for life (if he can keep others paying tithes and jumping hoops). The cult leaders are NOT going to "make a course correction".........why should they? They are self-serving. False prophets/teachers......their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness. "Splinter Groups" [False prophets and priests].......are nothing new, date back to the days of old. Jeremiah chapter 23 gives an apt description of what the Lord God of Israel thinks about them.
  10. Thanks, T-Bone...........yeah, "parasitic in nature." Even twi's definition of "The Way'........strives to supplant their meaning, and strategy of "fellowship meetings," of those desiring to be true followers of the Lord Jesus Christ. Rather than elevating the spiritual nature and manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us as "sons of God" ( I John 3:1 ).....this twi-definition confines and restricts learning and growth to attendance of fellowships meetings for spiritual nurture and growth (cough, cough). Supplanted to follow in the steps of another man-made religion. Thanks wierwille.......pppffffftttt. SSDD UPDATE: I believe that some of what I was taught in pfal/twi had a basis of truth in it...... I believe that much of what I was taught in pfal/twi was restrictive with attempts to supplant followers into twi-adulation and servitude. I believe that most of what I was taught in pfal/twi wilts in significance to what is truly "power from on high"....and truly, The Word of God.
  11. You WANT to be a believer? You HAVE to be a follower? ENTER into the world of The Way Ministry's Doublespeak. The language that deliberately obscures. Phrases that use sleight-of-hand to disguise. Descriptions that intend to distort. Definitions that reverse the meaning of words. The Way = The Way International (a follower by twi-servitude) The Way = the Lord Jesus Christ (a follower by making him lord of your life) HERE is how to be a follower of The Way International............. : "The Way is a fellowship of the followers of the Lord Jesus Christ for the manifestation of the more abundant life. A follower of The Way is filled with and manifests power from on high, holy spirit, and freely avails himself of fellowship meetings for spiritual nurture and growth. The Way fellowship is cemented together by the Spirit of God with each individual believer being transformed by the renewing of his mind according to the Word of God." NOW.......look at the Doublespeak of wierwille's use of phrases and words to define his "ministry": the more abundant life manifests power from on high spiritual nurture and growth renewing of the mind the Word of God Wierwille/twi has obscured and distorted each one of those terms in class presentation (pfal). Is "the more abundant life" physical or spiritual? Wierwille "looked around" and states (in pfal) that he SAW PEOPLE WHO WERE NOT CHRISTIAN living more of an abundant life that the church-going Christians. Is "manifesting power from on high" simply speaking in tongues in a believer's meeting......or is it a DAILY walk with your lord, mediator and savior Jesus Christ doing that which is pleasing to our Heavenly Father, loving and serving Him? Is "spiritual nurture and growth" defined by taking all of twi's classes and THEN, upgraded classes years later? Or, is it more deeply embedded in a deep, trusting spiritual relationship with our Father walking in His love and His light? Is "renewing of the mind" simply a matter of adhering to pfal material and twi's claptrap? Or, is it a moment-by-moment process (enlightenment?) of trusting Him and letting His will be done in our lives (as a vessel - pouring out in service to another)? Is "the Word of God" merely the teachings and plagiarized material from victor paul wierwille? Or, is it far-superior and excellent in power, deliverance and fulfillment as prophets of old spoke as they were moved via the holy spirit....whereby we have some of that mighty Word of God today in the written holy scripture? I believe that some of what I was taught in pfal/twi had a basis of truth in it...... I believe that much of what I was taught in pfal/twi was distorted, obscured and twisted..... I believe that most of what I was taught in pfal/twi wilts in significance to what is truly "power from on high"....and truly, The Word of God. .
  12. Everything in the cult was a sequence..........of followship. By the mid-90s........the insanity of followship went to new heights. To be 'active' corps.........now, they HAD to be full-time, all-the-time, employees. Attend Martindale's New Advanced Class (cough, cough).......wierwille stuff "old wineskins" Every adv class grad and corps grad needed this upgrade to maintain good standing in cult Get rid of ALL old ministry music tapes from those who left twi......you might get possessed Plan to go two-by-two........having a believer with you strengthens your power to prevail Re-take all classes.....Foundational, Intermediate, Advanced....to have "present truth" Dial-A-Sunday-Service.....listen to HQ-led teacher, stand up, sit down, sing, clap.....followship folly In fact.....be sure to witness to a new person and bring him/her to this Dial-A-Sh!tty-Service But the Ultimate Kick-Azz Followship Doctrine of All......Plan & Submit Your Weekly Schedule in 15-minute increments .......Yep, follow your submitted schedule staying within the framework of those preconceived 15-minute slots A believer is a follower......and a good follower is a good believer. Indoctrination Complete. TWI never had a corps leadership program. It was ALL a fabricated scam. Today's splinter groups have the SAME plan...........followship masquerading as fellowship.
  13. That's the thing about being ensnared in a cult for 30-45 years.......all of your "support systems" are cult-related whereas business/community systems are deemed "worldly" or anathema. So, even though you exit mothership-cult....victims are grasping at any support floating by and voila, another splinter cult just happens to extend a "helping hand." And, for many.....all those years of distancing themselves from "earthly family" doesn't help. Or, by now......parents are deceased and relatives are complete strangers. At gatherings, weddings and funerals.......it is quite possible that you bump into two or three ex-wayfers who are each involved in a different splinter cult. But hey..... as long as they're not involved with *The Way International* then they lock arms with fellow-comrades who "saw the light and got out." The real rogue individuals are NOT those who have no affiliation with any splinter group but ........THOSE WHO PULL THE CURTAIN BACK ON WIERWILLE'S PLAGIARISM, PROPAGANDA AND PREDATORY WAYS TO SPOTLIGHT THE CON. Welcome to GSC......where the rubber meets the road, Defiant Rogues Inc.
  14. So.....TLC Did any twi leader encourage YOU to go to God in prayer? If so....would you be so kind as to give us the details. Thanks.
  15. Nope.......not once. Cults, like twi, do their level best to always keep "their people" in submission. Dependence was the name of their game.......not INDEPENDENCE. To offer advice/counseling that one "should seek the Lord in prayer".....is to relinquish control of that follower (to seek the Lord). With each passing year, wierwille devised a set of one-liners that he accentuated over and over again. Along with the "man of God DOCTRINE".......he commandeered the authority of one who speaks for God (yeah, right). Slick, deceptive con. And, all of his lieutenants marched in lockstep. But hey......that's what cults do. What were all those cult buzz-lines back then? It's the Word, the Word.....and nothing but the Word. Lift Lists? Sure.....with vpw and trustees at top of list. VPW quote......"If you're wrong, I will tell you." The Word = bible verses filtered thru twi's classes and material Corps Research Papers......had to be sanctioned by "research advisors" Corps Research Papers......had to be rooted in pfal material, not "new" stuff Not once......did any corps leadership direct me to "seek the Lord in prayer" concerning corps assignments, department issues, courtship/marriage, etc. We were simply railroaded to obey leadership.....always. Heck, even as late as March 2017.......Moynihan, Fort and Horney refer .....2. Eliminate the “absolute” power of the current self-appointed board. THAT was what it was like at hq back in 1980-1984 as well. Wierwille had absolute power to pull all the levers of power at his command. The Way International WAS and IS a cult......using the subtle power of spiritual abuse. In twi, they looked at prayer.....in terms, of Lift Lists. Mechanical, contrived, obedience. Looking back.....I can hardly believe how crazy and controlled it really was.
  16. So true...........they are just not EQUIPPED with the right tools and ropes to get out of this cult rut and rot. THAT is why GSC is so damn important! More than three decades of splinter cults.......Lynn, Finn3gan, Seed, Carr, Burt0n, Hendricks, Rea-hard, Rood, Sann, Sides, Quillen, McMullan, Geer, etc, etc........and now, the latest two groups, Magnelli via Oikeos and these ex-corps coordinators spearheading R&R. Years and years of more involvement and fellowship....followship UNTIL the indoctrination (Momentus) or scandal became too blatantly obvious. And then, a mini-exodus from a mini-splinter cult. Some have died. Some have faded away. I find it incredulous that believers (cough, cough)....indoctrinated followers STILL are trapped in this mindset. Don't they read others books and material besides the wierwille books and class syllabi? Don't they have an independent thought that they can call their own? How rigid and boring it must be to go thru life having others dictate the boundaries of your existence (rut). Looking back on all this......as I've stated before, "I tend to see wierwille in terms of his narcissist pathologies to acquire power and dominance over others. It was only after he had "cornered the market" of stolen and plagiarized work from others that his "ministry" came to the fore and he made greater strides of controlling others. Dependence on twi was the alpha and omega.........not independence. Everything in the cult was a sequence..........of followship. Not once in all my years in twi did any leader encourage me to "go to the Lord in prayer." Every cog in the twi-machine functions on OBEDIENCE TO WIERWILLE-DOCTRINE..........not biblical authority."
  17. This was Jim Doop's last post. .......[bold-faced for emphasis]
  18. YES.......it could easily be deemed that the majority of wierwille's "ministry years" (1941-1982) were barely "scraping by." 1941- 1957.......pastoring at Payne, OH and Van Wert, OH. 1948......with vpw heading to Pikes Peak to receive his degree-mill doctorate from Pikes Peak....his Dad bought them a new 1948 Chevrolet. With 3 kids in tow.....Dotsie claimed in her book that it was "an exceptional summer" [driving to Colorado and then, to Camp Farthest Out in MN] Sep 1955 - Apr 1956......sold some of their furniture and vpw's car to make this India itinerary [mounting further dissention with the church board] Dec 1957......moved to rental house at 649 South Washington Street in Van Wert, OH [... rent payments - - vpw was 41 yrs old] Jan 1958 - March 1972 .........arguably, "struggling years" by most measures. ........by November 1958, wierwille is pleading in his mailer for 6 more families to faithfully tithe and help him meet expenses. ........for several years, wierwille was traveling from state-to-state to run his [Leonard's] foundational class to church-goers. ........and, people were endangered helping the wierwilles move IN A BLIZZARD ...... in February 1961, to the wierwille homestead. ........when pfal was filmed in 1967, every aspect was on a strict time limit...studio, lighting, furniture.....because of MONEY CONSTRAINTS. ........in fact, the desk wierwille used was "purchased" for this filming......and then, RETURNED after the filming was done ........and......in was this LACK OF MONEY that caused vpw to make foolish decisions and burn his eyes during filming!!! Much more could be added to this list. All throughout Mrs. W's book.........the lack of money, i.e. "scraping by" comes to the foreground of nearly every decision made. Why March 1972? What changed? It was the coup of Steve and Sandi Heefner in March 1972, during the Rye, NY advanced class......when things REALLY changed for vpw (imo). "The Way East (Heefner) and the Way West were INDEPENDENT 501(c)3 corporations, completely and legally separate from wierwille and new Knoxville. When Wierwille threw them out under the cover of his AC show, moneyhands, coward allen and dictor paul formed a new corporation The Way of NY, which was "owned" by new knoxville now. The Way East also included the states of New England, NJ, DE, & PA. All those states were also "incorporated under "the Way international" as subsidiaries in their own right, thus accomplishing the corporate takeover of The Way East with the "M&A-ing" of the Heefner's and consolidating all control to dictor paul and the BOT, which at that time was Ermal and Harry. Remember, those three were the ONLY official members of TWI at that time." [ from DWBH -- "Mark n Avoid" thread] So, yeah......most all of wierwille's "ministry years" were LEAN YEARS and the scales tipped in his favor when wierwille confiscated Heefner's and Doop's INDEPENDENT 501(c)3 corporations as his own. Jim Doop posted here at GSC years ago that wierwille blatantly lied and went back on his word.....85% of abs was to stay in The Way West and 15% was to be sent to the way international. Wierwille and TWI have whitewashed all of this......to exalt vpw's image and legacy. Splinter cults whitewash it as well.........the leaders are hanging onto wierwille's coattails for dear life (and livelihood).
  19. Same pattern.........always. Rivals wait for opportunistic time Head Minister passes away or retires When not promoted to big chair....plots strategy Abides time to "break away" and be in charge Find chinks in their armor/doctrine Isolate his splinter group from "wrong doctrine" Be sure that support ($$$) is firmly in place Behold.......another offshoot grows in the midst Nothing new under the sun...... Heck.....wierwille's "thriving ministry" only lasted 12 years (1970-1982) Then, he retired......and the infighting started.
  20. DWBH..........ironic, indeed! THOSE who were the most complicit to this evil and secrets........are STILL the most dedicated to this pseudo-Christian con. Splinter Cults like these........lord over people who claim to "research the bible" but can't find common sense staring them in the face. Ugh.
  21. Penworks..... thanks for that small correction. Charlie must have moved into more behind-the-scenes, administrative work.....because I don't recall him at hq after 1981. I remember those security guys like Doug MacM, John L., Brooks M., and David R......but not Charlie. Anyhoo.... But then.......after nearly 40 years, it's challenging to remember those security guys and bus drivers and body guards and valets and enablers. When the Ambassador One pilot, John Ra-ce, split out........wierwille was ticked off. How dare he quit and go start a new life somewhere else. Same deal with some of those bodyguards.....specifically Jim Cr!m. Now THAT one.....I saw up close and remember quite vividly......
  22. DWBH......metastasized indeed. Hearing of *Charlie Quillen* after all these years and "The Solution Radio Show"...... is another example of "everyone's got a psalm and doctrine." If I remember correctly, he is another one of those guys that wierwille despised for leaving hq and splitting out on his own [around 1981, 1982]. Much like wierwille ...... when he calculated that he needed 6 more families to faithfully tithe ........ these splinter groups CALCULATE when they can have their **break-away** moment and BE IN CHARGE. What does it take? Faithful Tithing. Sponsorship. Big Donors. 80 people? 120 people? Amass a group of followers. Get dedicated followers to "spread the message." If genuine......signs, miracles and wonders will follow. If counterfeit......NEVER ALLOW THE MASK TO SLIP. Start a radio show. Establish a website. Do weekly teachings. Relentlessly tell people that YOU have the answers. Network and ally with others for specific events. Guard against zealous, competitive corps leadership. Strategically distance yourself, and group, from the mother-ship. ........just like wierwille did, when he splintered from Leonard's work.
  23. All of these newly-exited corps are purposely dismissing The Wierwille Doctrine. Corps teaching after corps teaching.....(and Sunday Service Teachings, too).......wierwille claimed that the ONLY WAY to "stand on the Word" was to remain faithful in the way international. If you left.....you went out into the dark night of the soul. These corps, who've jumped into these new splinter cults (to try and make a splash)........are deceiving themselves. Wierwille could NOT have been more clear. If you left him/twi........you were "NOT on the Word." He relentlessly taught - - - "The Word is the Ministry and the Ministry is the Word." If you leave the ministry (twi).......YOU LEAVE THE WORD. THAT is what wierwille taught.......(and that's why it was, as is, a cult).
  24. Wierwille despised the "Reverends" who left him/twi. Any clergy who exited twi and, STILL, used the "reverend" title......wierwille denigrated. The Wierwille Doctrine: Standing on The Word was ONLY available to those in twi's household. Period. Read the December 1978 Corps Letter ------ "The least you could do if you were ordained and now you're outside the household of The Way is never to used the term 'Reverend.'
  25. It sure was interesting (annoying)......how some people felt entitled to lord over others? They didn't need to be "at the top" ......to have layers and layers of "servants" at their beckon call. .
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