shortfuse

Think I'm just going to sit back, relax and let it happen. Even with all my family entanglements, I'm reaching the limits of my caring.

Was thinking how great it would be to just dissolve the whole thing and put the funds towards some kind of trust that helped cult survivors.

Thinking about the end of The Way over the weekend. It really seems to be in its last throws. It's hard if not impossible to recruit new staffers for HQ. There are fewer and fewer taking the classes. The advanced class is poorly attended, without the grads who retake it again and again, it would be hard to justify at all. Without a steady stream of new advanced class grads, there is no one to be Way Disciples or go in the Way Corps. I think in the not too distant future, these programs will start shutting down. The Way Corps program will end (or be put on hold), the Way Disciple program will follow shortly after. How many more years before they have to close up shop all together?

All of this leads me to wonder: Does Rosalie have an exit strategy? She must right? Any speculation on what it might involve?

Weeks before hoisting the "spiritual mantle" on martindale.....ole vic

is PROPHESYING THE INSTALLMENT OF HIS GRANDSON as the 3rd president of twi!!!

Word? Is that where the SOWERS guy is coming from? Vic prophesied he would be the third president and so he is? Carrying on what they think is a legitimate heir to the way?

Also, if that was so important to him, why leave Don hanging like that?

The alcohol is an interesting point. Coupled with what DWBH said about AA providing a template for twigs, it leads me to another thought. Did Vic ever attend AA for his chronic drinking? That would be an interesting twist.

Well, it looks like I addressed wierwille's AA-construct (the way tree -- ie twig fellowship)

and its "twelve step program" in a thread years ago. Twelve step program

Kind of ironic how TWI bashed AA. I don't know if Vic did but the Craiggers sure did.

Years ago, I announced to Wayfer family my non-belief in God. (Which, at that time, was kinda a big deal)

Their response?

"Yes, but, what do you think about The Trinity?"

The stance on The Trinity was more important that an actual belief in a God, to a Wayfer.

Wow. That's kind of amazing.

When I left the Way Corps, I told all of the fellowship coordinators about my decision to do so, but left my reasons private unless someone asked for specifics. Some did, some didn't. Anyway, I'll always remember one response from a guy who was incredulous about my choice. He said, "What? Did you find out the dead are alive, or Jesus Christ really is God or something?" He just couldn't believe I would leave a group that had "the truth" like TWI. Really nice guy too, I'm still super fond of him. But that certainty about way doctrine was just so valuable to him.

You quoted most of the first post, but for some reason left out this part.

The documentation for all of this is on that thread.

I linked the thread.

First we discussed the book, then we discussed twi and vpw history.

So, I began making a timeline based on that.

Then I included information from other threads, usually linking the

threads if not just naming them. And then I added the information

to the next timeline.

So, go to that thread and look around.

Gotcha. Thanks.

victor paul wierwille was born to a large family of German descent.

(Born December 31, 1916.)

According to locals, Ernst, his father, was an alcoholic with negligible

education, with a bad temper who acted as a bully.This was true in his dealings

with locals AND with his own family.Each child had their own chores.

Little Victor chose to neglect his chores, and would vanish for hours into the woods nearby.

(It has been noted that this running off may have been as much to avoid

an abusive father as it was to avoid doing any work. Or it may be unrelated.)

He claimed that when he was young, he once told a minister that he wanted to be

a man of God like him. Other than this statement, Little Victor showed

no actual involvement in the church, no actual effort or work in the things of the church.

So, this seems to suggest an interest-not in being a man of God- but in being

the man the whole community turned out to see, to have their respect.

As a teenager, young Vic continued to lack any qualities of a man of God. In fact, he went out of

his way to earn a reputation going in the opposite direction. He was a bully, a showoff and a braggart.

(He seems to have been taught this at home.)He did all sorts of things for attention. He was quick

to start a fight or mouth off at others. He had a quick wit. One of his common ways of showing off

was to tear up and down the streets of New Knoxville on his motorcycle, trying to get attention.

His demonstrated talents seemed to be limited to his quick wit and his ability to play a guitar,

which he showed competency in.

Old Man Wierwille was preparing to pass on thefamily farm to young Vic, as was the family

tradition. Young Vic balked at this. He'd had plans to go to college. At first, he considered

a few fields-business and so on- but by this time, he had decided upon the seminary.

(This was before the time he referred to as "believing the Bible as the Word of God".)

Old Man Wierwille was skeptical of this, and said that young Vic, having shown lack

of hard work on simple manual labour on the farm, would never make a good preacher.

Young Vic convinced him he would do better with books than with sweating out in the field.

Young Vic went to school for the ministry.

His community thought it was some kind of joke- everyone knew he lacked the proper character.

(He never overcame that impression with them.)

Victor had the option to study "Bible Languages" or other subjects requiring hard study. He instead

chose to study Homiletics, the "softest" option he could have learned. (He never overcame his

deficiency in study in Bible languages, church history, etc.-not even to the level of an informed

layman as of 2004.)

What are the sources for these early Wierwille family accounts and community impression of the family and of Vic? Just curious.

*double post deleted*

The original premise of the thread was that TWI's doctrine on the nature of God, Jesus, and Holy Spirit served to isolate way followers from the rest of Christianity. (Indeed, some people would not even consider TWI Christian because of this doctrine.) The payoff to followers while inside the group was a feeling of superiority over the rest of the Christian (we sometimes added "so called") world. We understood something about the nature of God that eluded almost everyone else. They were ignorant and/or deceived. Let's be honest with ourselves about the appeal of that insider knowledge. It feels good. It allows you to over look other less appealing aspects of participation.

When people eventually decide to leave TWI, and most do, if they have internalized this idea that Jesus Christ is not God, it is difficult if not impossible to find somewhere they feel they can belong. They cannot find a "church home" they feel comfortable in. Is the Trinity a better explanation of the nature of God? I don't know. But choosing to believe or at least allow the possibility of a trinitarian God opens up many more possibilities for fulfilling Christian fellowship and experience.

ha! . . . okay we'll try and slow it down a bit.

1. Victor Paul Wierwille had a purpose for writing Jesus Christ is Not God and making it a central TWI doctrine.

2. Those reasons were for evil.

3. Ex-Wayfers can't seem to let that doctrine go. 3b. Many of those who have let the doctrine go can admit it was one of the bigger hurdles.

4. A lot of folks create excuses for clinging to that doctrine. 4b. Usually they use a lot of deflective tactics.

5. That is interesting . . .

Yes, THIS.

Found this review this morning:

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/television/2016/03/hulu_s_the_path_reviewed.html

Author compares to Scientology, probably never heard of TWI.

Still ruminating on this. It seems to be one of the hardest things for anyone retaining Christian beliefs after TWI. There's almost no where to go and be a part of a church community where they are not also trinitarian. Personally, if I still believed, I'm way more interested in the actual church culture - what are the people like - than the specific doctrinal stances. I know some others though who are currently struggling with this. The sense that you don't belong anywhere because everyone else is trinitarian.

Just put some coins in the offering plate. Let us know how the fundraiser progresses.

Yay! They're hashtaging. #wayproductions #waycorps #STSTWI

Then there was the trap that the the boredom was your fault. If you aren't excited, you are passionate for the truth. And if you aren't passionate for the truth, it's your job to get that way. Any boredom is a failure on your part :)

Dang, man, that's some heavy -ish.

You know from my POV, The Way wasn't really destroyed with VPW because, although I grew up in the way at the end of his life, I was in the Corps as an adult under LCM and later Rosalie. It was alive still in as much as it was still actively scarring those of us who were still around.

Anyway, this idea of destroying The Way is interesting to me because looking back from my perspective, Craig seemed to be doing that almost on purpose. I can definitely see the point you are making too. But with the craiggers, all that dumb purging stuff he did, all the mark and avoid, and putting ALL the Corps on the payroll. These things seemed so self evidently "bad for business". Looking back it makes me think maybe Craig was doing it intentionally.

Do you agree and if so, do you think Vic appointed him for this purpose intentionally as well?

If I were to get into explanations of JBS, its history and the development of American government/public policy/politics -- to make the connections easier to understand -- I believe it would be crossing a line and inviting debate over political issues. This is not the place to do that.

If you have any questions or would like to discuss it more, please send me a PM. I'd be happy to converse with you privately.

Fire up a thread in the proper forum. I'm interested.

Breathe, MM, breathe!

Subliminal messaging at its most pathetic. Bringing every thought Captive. And water-boarded.

(If you start humming to Trdy, DO seek counseling.)

Damn it, man!

This thread triggered some Way Productions related PTSD. I hope you can hear Mike Martins voice in the following lines too:

"I'm tapped in tight

right to the root

you can tell that I am

'cause I bare much fruit?"

Seriously, fornicate yourself with a pine cone, you g-d ingrate.

Awesome filter-dodging dis. I would just add "sideways".

You get the idea, MRAP, :wave:/>.

I intend no disrespect, what I have seen lacking on this thread is any actual "testimonial" from corp vets as to their being either a victim or an oppresor. It would carry a bit more weight if some partial ID were provided.

I have made it well known my WOW status and waysider has made no bones about his Fellow Laborers affiliation but there are so many posters on GSC that are done so in the shaddows, the ellusion of inner circle knowledge about twi.

It appears that past corp folk want to live in the shaddows, providing minimal personal info but yet, speaking from a pulpit of authority. I only think that those corp folk are ashamed and don't want to be identified; I most ashuredly understand that reasoning, yet, I also find that quite absurd: honesty on one part and mystery on the other.

Frankly, I see this thread that addresses internal GSC matters as a step towards more enlightenment but also think that the intent of the thread will not be accomplished. I don't think there is some sort of mysterious code of silence but why all the silence, a deafening silence.

Yes, the mystique of the corp continues.

Jesus, dude, really? No one here is compelled to provide verifying personal information. You know how internet forums work right? You don't have to believe any of this, think what ever you want.

This thread poses a false dichotomy. It's not either/or. To me that seems self evident. I could give you personal examples of both, but what is the point?

Yeah, it's both. I can even see LCM as a victim to some extent.

It's like the abused/abuser cycle though. The victims of oppression are in turn oppressors given the opportunity.

Yeah, I hear ya, Oakspear. I thought it was creepy too. Especially since he was DEAD by the time I'd got involved.

I also thought his self-appointed title The Teacher was creepy if not to say megalo. But I rationalised that to think that he meant a research or communications dept. I wonder if anybody actually did "write The Teacher..." and got any sensible sort of answer?

I know a good many respectable clergymen nowadays and they are ALL referred to by their first names. Occasionally the might be referred to as (say) Bishop Peter, because Peter as a name is not uncommon and to add his designation of bishop simply clarifies who's meant. And other than in highly ritualistic situations, none of the church higher-ups expects anything other than the hospitality that would naturally be extended to a visitor or guest.

I don't know if it is proper, but I'm always like "what's up, BISH?"