DogLover

People in der Way used "spiritual anger" as an excuse to cover their unGodly behavior, plain and simple.

It seems well established online that the current president of TWI knew about and helped arrange the sexual liaisons for Craig when he was president, and others have thought that RFR was doing that to have Donna to herself, and that they currently have a lesbian relationship and have had for many years. RFR openly let a lesbian couple live in the basement of her home and this was after they were allowed to sleep together in a double bed in the Corps Chalet. While the rank and file may not know this, some of the leadership that visit this forum do know. They also know what Romans 1 has to say about these folks ... that they are reprobate, devoid of sound judgment.

Yet they continue on in the Way, sure it is "God's Household" -- one particular couple comes to my mind as I write this, and in their case I suspect their current assignment is rather a bribe to keep them quiet about what they know, but still keeps them from being able to spend time with their only son and his wife and children. Why can they not see and respond to what is happening? How can they think what they are doing is Godly?

Answers, Moneyhands? And others?

EEEEK! Deja vu ....

Even though both Donnie and Del are no longer living, the good they did, the Word they taught,and the love they shared lives on. They have quite a legacy, whether TWI ever recognizes it or not. God keeps score, not the lesbian in charge of TWI and her minions.

Congratulations for having the determination and fortitude to go back to college! Interesting comparisons you make there ...

naw, they are getting ready for tommorrow's rapture/gathering together

Didn't happen of course .. no man knows the time or season. There is an enterprising "unbeliever" who has set up a post-rapture pet service. For a set fee payable ahead of time, of course, they take care of your pets and find them good homes after you are gathered together. Gotta appreciate their ingenuity ....

George, you're probably right, but I hate to see old buildings neglected and then lost. I think the place is probably of more historical than architectural significance.

The property had its highlights, though. The ceiling of the main barn was spectacular. It looked like the inside of the bottom of a huge, wooden ship. The stained-glass windows in the chapel were really beautiful.

It was just a cool place...designed for complete self-sufficiency, with the dorms (former convent rooms), chapel, the barns and outbuildings, the auto shop, the laundry room, the canning room, the moats and springs on the property, the orchards. Then there were the tunnels and passageways and the huge attic (bats included), and the pastures and the woods.

If they could save some of the buildings, it would be a great place for a museum. With 197 acres, they could re-create a whole 19th-century midwestern village there. Sorta the Williamsburg of Indiana!

That sounds like a great idea, Linda ... I wish someone WOULD do that!

I remember reading on here that Br!an Moneyhands had been relieved of his position at Way HQ and was to find a job out on the field by the late fall of 2010. Anyone know whatever became of that?

I only know of one leader that did time for some type of extortion. Not sure of the details, I think he was in Good Seed, way back when.

Yep .. Rick Panyard.

Thomas Bumgarner commented: I thought the Advanced Class was on revelation, discerning of spirits, healing and miracles. Something VPW, LCM, and RR never had a clue about.

It used to be in the 1970s, 80s, and perhaps even early 90s. I went to an Advanced Class Special in probably 94 or 95 at The Way HQ and the whole thing was pretty much how to "discern" devil spirits and those born of the wrong seed by secular means -- basically Craig ranting and raving and giving exanples. I took lots of notes, but I'm not sure I still have them -- they are mostly his opinion, very little Bible.

When I first took the Advanced Class in 1973, it was divided into sections on revelation, discerning of spirits, miracles and healing, but also interspersed with some odd tapes. The ones I remember are "Bitten by Devils", "If You Don't Bow, You Won't Burn" (an expository teaching on Daniel 3, from Oral Roberts at the height of his ministry - later "sold out to the Methodist Church," according to VPW), and a "winner" called "Hypnotism, Communism, and the Beatles." There were others, but these are the ones I remember.

Took it in-residence at both Emporia and Gunnison in 1983 and 1985. Don't remember much about the Gunnison one. The one at Emporia had lots of the auxiliary tapes like the ones mentioned above, plus there was a live speaker who talked on music. There was also a Corps person who talked about being taken for psychic surgery in Central America when she was a child, but didn't end up having it. Members of her family did -- turns out they "paid" for their healing with lots of devilish stuff. Could probably remember more details if I thought about it, but I try not to think about it.

Moneyhands did go on LEAD, when it was run by Wierwille's Son in Law, John Somerville. Apparently Wierwille met with Somerville and devised a scenario where all the leaders would be taken captive and interrogated until they broke. None of the leaders made it through. I know that Moneyhands was one of them.

Oh, yeah... I remember Cli*f Ad*elm@n telling me about that once in 1983 ... I just didn't know Moneyhands was with the group.

I'm with Old Skool -- creepy indeed. Still as irresponsible as ever to send people hitchhiking and then mountain climbing with very little training. My time on LEAD was 10 of the worst days of my life. I guess in an odd way it did teach me an "I can do" attitude, because I figured in years later that if I had survived that insanity, none of the rest of the insanity the world would throw at me could defeat me. HOWEVER, as far as making me a better Christian or helping develop compassion or leadership in some of the ....heads in charge, I think not. If it was so wonderful, why didn't VPW do it, and why did Moneyhands and others wimp out on doing it, too?

Didn't the mixing of Way funds to help support Gahagan (I know I donated some money at ministry events to him) lead to the Way losing its tax exempt status for several years? POW-WOWS (Political WOWS) were sent to Maine to help get him and perhaps others elected, IIRC.

I realize some folks here are Christian and some no longer are. With that is mind, feel free to adjust the verb tense (past or present) as you deem applicable.

So.... what if the batteries weren't included? What if everything about Christianity remained the same EXCEPT for the afterlife part? (ie: No promise of an afterlife, just things that apply to life in the here and now.) Is/was that a "deal breaker" as they say?

Please, no Sunday School lessons. Just a simple "yes/no/I'm not sure" and a brief explanation of why (or why not)

I go with Paul's sentiments ... if the dead be not raised, let's eat and drink, for tomorrow we die. Thankfully, there is eternal life.

I'll admit the picture is pretty funny...but no, this is not the housing for Corps leadership in the 80's. I can't remember where I've seen that picture before. If by Corp leadership you mean the people that ran the Corp like JAL etc., I think they stayed in the Corps Chalet if I'm not mistaken.

When JAL was the Corps Coordinator at Emporia, he and his wife and daughter lived in an apartment in the basement of the Campus Center -- presumably a nice apartment, but still an apartment. Perhaps they got to stay in one of the Corps Chalet's rooms out back of it -- they are like a hotel room in a moderately priced hotel. I have seen all of them because I helped clean them on several occasions.

Actually, that might have been better than where I lived the first half of my interim year on staff. I shared a tiny former office in the Ermal Owens Building (EOB). We had no closet. It was nasty at first because of a dirty air conditioner. I cleaned the entire room with some oil soap to get a good aroma in there, then they finally brought a metal pole balanced on two other metal poles (like a swing set, but smaller) on which we could hang our clothes. About January or February, I was moved into Trailer Unit 18 in a small room with three bunk beds - it was already very crowded and they did not appreciate having another roommate. All this for free labor, "three hots and a cot" as Michael Fort used to call it ... and $100 a month "salary." One advantage was that we DID get $100 per month off our Corps tuition for the final year, as all former Staff people did at that time. Still, the housing was atrocious.

I was halfway listening to "The View" on St. Patrick's Day as the "ladies" were discussing prayer by a Christian in the Senate, I think. Different ones of them offered their opinions, then Sherry Shepherd said, "I just do my speaking in tongues" when someone is praying that's not Christian. Joy Behar, who is Jewish, was surprised, asked Sherry what SIT was, and Sherry responded by speaking in tongues aloud for about 15 seconds. Joy said she didn't understand it, and I believe Sherry replied, "It's not for you," the understanding being that it is to God. A little more chatter, then Sherry put her hands on Joy's head, and Joy mimicked speaking in tongues, then commented something along the lines that she liked it, it made her tongue feel good. Very obvious she was making fun ... but then they went to commercial or another topic.

I was stunned for several minutes....never thought I'd hear one of the "ladies of 'The View'" speaking in tongues!

Anyone else see this?

Interestingly enough, if you check the Bible, the Apostle Paul said by revelation that if in this life only we have hope, we are more to be pitied than all men, of all men most miserable. I believe that's in I Corinthians 15. As for me, I'm thankful there is a heaven.

I remember VPW saying that a prophet was a hard man to live with several times during my 23.5 years with the Way. In context, he meant that a TRUE biblical prophet spoke the Word of God without worrying about what people thought of it ... his Godly job was to speak God's Word.

As to whether he himself thought of himself as a prophet, that's another story ... I'm just reporting the context in which I heard it.

I'm trying to figure where "the Converse is also true" is being communicated here..

the converse is seldom true.

I can speak of shoes ... I did not always find that the Converse were true in their fit ... but now that I have found a New Balance (both in shoes and spiritually after leaving TWI), I have a better and more Godly walk.

I think that's very true, overall WW and TandO.

The more I see that, the more that I see the downside of religious commerce, whether it's selling classes or having tax exempt land, given by others. It opens the doors for those who supposedly want to dedicate their lives to "serving others" and do "what Jesus would do" can do the exact opposite and accumulate "treasure" where "moth and rust" can eat away.

Upon the first conviction of member abuse a church/ministry/diocese should immediately have it's tax exempt status revoked pending review, with stiff penalties and back taxes collected for the years that the Tax Exempt clergy and officers were abusing their members and enjoying the benefits of being a "church".

And for those ministries/churches/diocese who insist that they answer to a Higher Law and can't be required to open their doors or their books even after being convicted of abuses to their members, the government can say fine. Good. Pay your taxes, pay your penalties, and you don't need any protection or consideration from the Lowly Lower Laws of the Land. Do as you will and expect to be treated like any other business and citizens.

AMEN, SOCKS!

Yes, "Heart" was newspaper format on was done on newsprint, not glossy pages. It was around when I got involved in 1978...don't remember it much past '82 or '83 though

Yeah, that's right. It was really short-lived, only about a couple of years.

i spent a couple of blocks there. what a shame such a lovely place could be ruined by the nutjobs that ran it

How true, excie!

After being locked down there it became very ugly and mundane after a while. I did enjoy it at first. The day I left I felt as if I had been sprung from the joint.

Amen! The day we were packing up to go, one of my Corps brothers was singing, "Ding, dong, the wicked witch is dead!" in honor of our escaping @rlene and t0m j. I laughed and laughed.

I wonder what they will do when she unexpectedly "croaks".

Can't have that in da household of zion(?).. maybe they will prop up something bulbuous enough in her place.. carry on business as usual..

Hmmm...how will they be able to tell? That lesbi@n looks like death warmed over already.