sprawled out

the Lord showed me long ago that I was hungering and thirsting after righteousness back in The Day, and that PFAL was His beginning to fill me.

this could get us way off topic (30+ pages later), but it's also very topical, because it ties into the whole personal prophecy thing ("the lord told me...").

you were hungering and thirsting, and God led you to a stolen class taught by a lying plagiarist? because as long as you get "the word" it doesn't matter where it came from? because he had no better option? because he was unaware of where the outfit was heading?

i'm sorry, therebut, but i think that's a deeply flawed position. especially if you think the lord showed it to you. yes, it's only my opinion. but you might think about it.

reading that letter, two things jumped out at me very early on. i'm wondering if anyone else has similar questions about them.

1. regarding the division going on at STF, john wrote "I know that no matter how far one has walked with God...our spiritual equilibrium is only as good as our renewed mind faith today."

does anyone else have a problem with this? it makes me nuts. WHY IS "SPIRITUAL EQUILIBRIUM" SO FRAGILE? it seems to me that kind of thinking makes God out to be weak and ineffectual. i had the same problem back when i was in twi. if we were designed to think "God's Word," it should be the easiest thing possible to hold on to--not the most tenuous. especially after doing it a while. if i exercise 3 times a week, every week for ten years, i don't lose all the benefits if i skip a week. why is "our spiritual equilibrium" so much less robust? i think it's just a bunch if crap; just a fear tactic to keep folks coming to church.

2. talking about KAG's problems, he said, "I believe that is coming out of her deep woundedness..." wait a minute, hasn't this person been committed to God and Jesus and the Bible and all that for years and years and years? why is she still so friggin' wounded? i thought at least part of the point of all that christian stuff was to be healed. but this person is spiritually "together" enough to get personal messages from God for other people, but still is deeply wounded? just my opinion, of course, but if i dumped my whole life into a thing for 30+ years and was still "deeply wounded," i'd have to wonder if maybe i was into the wrong thing.

having been away from my computer for nearly two weeks, there's no way i can respond to everything that's been written here. but i have to at least comment on the attacks on JAL. first of all, i have no stake in this thing. i'm not involved in STF, and in no way support it or their doctrines or practices. in fact, i'm completely opposed to lots of it, like the whole momentus thing, and think their position on "personal prophecy" is, at the very least, bullsh!t, and at worst, a horribly destructive means of controlling--and probably ruining--people's lives.

that said, i don't have the problems many do with john's letter. i think it's as honest as he could possibly be--given the constraints of his belief system. (meaning, i think many of his premises are flawed, so i don't agree with what he has to say. but i believe HE believes what he's saying to be the honest truth.) i think it's incredibly open, especially in light of the fact that he obviously knew it would be read by people outside the STF pale. from my perspective, it really goes above and beyond. he owes us nothing. we're not part of his thing. that he would make that level of detail available to outsiders says a great deal, in my opinion. so i don't know how people could fault his unwillingness to hang out at GSC and subject himself to what we all know would be quite the clusterf*ck. and hey, he left his phone number--which is infinitely more than i would do if i were in his shoes.

i do have others issues with things he said, but i think i'll address them in a separate thread.

May I also add that I believe that they'll work out their current problems and abandon the past mistakes, and as a result be even better than before.

"better than" what? a crazed, self-righteous bunch of self-deluded LOONS who get sucked in by the most obviously wrong-headed pseudo-christian scams because they don't have the sense to discern a damn thing for themselves? better than that?

they may "abandon the past mistakes," oldies. but only to embrace new ones. it's their pattern. and they haven't a clue how to get out of it.

maybe someone here can answer this. i saw a clip of the killers on some vh1 show last night and one of the guitarists was playing what looked like an old 335 with a fender neck. i think it might be a Coronado, except it had a maple fingerboard, and every Coronado i've found online has rosewood.

here's a pic. any thoughts? thanks!

thanks, dot.

and hey, MERRY CHRISTMAS, EVERYONE!

gee, third-grade english vocabulary? i don't know...

people getting reamed for not breaking the mints for the MOG precisely in half, or quarters..

ha! i hadn't thought about that in years! it's a perfect example of twi religion. the Doctrine of the Breaking of the Mints has its origins in a comment vpw made: "i never finish more than half a mint," or something like that. what he meant was he'd never keep sucking on a mint until it was gone, but would spit it out after a while. so breaking the backroom mints in half became official twi practice, all based on an idiotic misunderstanding of what the manicotti (the big cheese) said.

No sin well look everyone we got a look a like Christ.

ck, you've got to learn to use punctuation. i thought you were doing a chico marx impression!

for the record, here's one way to punctuate what you wrote to make your communication clearer:

No sin! Well, look everyone! We got a look-a-like Christ.

can you see how that's easier to read? do you care?

i must admit i don't understand why anyone thinks JAL or any of those folks should address this forum. because they feel some responsibility to "the body of christ?" some residual ex-twi camaraderie? i doubt it.

aren't these the same people who shut down THEIR OWN forum when it got too messy for them?

and even if they did "respond," does anyone really think it'd be satisfying? open, honest, full disclosure? or just more religious shuckin' and jivin'? the best you could ever hope to get from them is a veneer of semi-polite bs, barely covering the disdain they have for those of us who don't buy into their rap. i'm sorry, but that's what it is. they'll swear up and down that it's not so, but their self-satisfied smirks reveal their true hearts.

i know and love some of these people, so it pains me to say this. but i know it's the case, nevertheless. it's twi all over again, only worse. because they know better, but they do it anyway.

Personally I am appalled at how many of you have judged these matters without knowing even a fraction of the truth. One of the reasons I have never posted on this board before is because it saddens me so much to see how much pain exists within many of the members here. But sadder then that is the bitterness with which many of you approach life--so full of critical judgment, yet so lacking in grace.

i'm gonna be blunt, sir"valiant," because you deserve it: you're an idiot. (how's that for lacking in grace?) you're blinded by your religion. i don't need every detail to KNOW--i repeat, KNOW--that you guys are NUTS. you can't see it because it would invalidate your life to you. i know, i've been there. and i love the fact that you're so self-righteously critical of our criticism. that's the very definiton of "hypocrite" to me. (as in "religious hypocrite.") hey, i disagree with lots of what gets posted here, but i love the fact that people are trying to THINK FOR THEMSELVES. maybe you should try it sometime. i mean it.

I have no doubt I will be "flamed" in this thread because of my opinion, but don't waste your time as I won't respond to it. If you take offense at my opinion PM me and I would be happy to talk to you.

figures. they taught you well.

i didn't read every word of her letter, but i think it was completely appropriate. it spells out the problems of STFI--and of their top brASS--in a way i'd like every member (or whatever they call 'em) to read. maybe it would wake a few of them up. and they most definitely need waking.

though i'm sure that most of them will insist that she's to blame. and continue to hang around, give their time and love and money, until something even MORE grevious happens. a lawsuit, maybe.

have i mentioned i think they're all NUTS?

Its time to come down off their throne and "get a life"

right, mstar! a REAL life, like real people. with a REAL job! then come back to me after 10 or 15 years and maybe we'll talk.

if i may add my voice to the choir: THESE PEOPLE ARE NUTS!

it's a shame, and i feel bad, but i can't say i'm surprised. i was involved in the forerunner to CES (american fellowship services?), and had a part in drawing up the original bylaws for that group. that process was all i needed to see; i was gone before the ink was dry.

i've known JAL a long time, and i love the guy, and it breaks my heart that he's so without root in himself that he's been led down this path.

my unsolicited advice to current STFers: wake up! get out! it can't be "fixed," 'cause it's way beyond broken.

(it ain't so bad on the outside, by the way. actually, i kinda like it out here!)

on a more serious note, howard's signature looks like it was written by a 13-year old girl. I guess he must've had someone do his writing for him, since he couldn't get away with his usual "X" on official correspondence.

what's obscene to me is the underlying elitist message. it's just a version of the same thing so many of us have come to hate about twi. the whole "christian supremacy" thing just plain sucks--forget about the supposed setting of the game. it promotes a mindset that most of us know from experience is self-serving and downright mean.

i never understood the book of revelations. it was all too wacko for me. let's be honest--can anyone really imagine JESUS CHRIST mowing down the unbelievers with an ak-47? it's just so twisted, it's sick.

sorry to be so wishy-washy about it. you know us new yorkers.

1. it's disgusting. i hate that whole mindset, anyway. and then to promote it with a video game...

2. why can't christians do anything but imitate what the secular world--which they look down upon--invents? christian "rock," christian video games...jeez, you'd think that if you had a direct line to the creator, you'd be creative!

groucho--you obviously knew a much different guy than i did. but you're right about his wife. she was a sweetheart.

it's nice to hear that people think he's now a good guy.

as for me, he'll be a good guy when he seeks me out and apologizes. profusely. until then, he'll always be in my Top 5 a@@holes of all time. Top Two, maybe.

the VAST MAJORITY of songs that you find via Limewire are 100% illegal to download. if it's a song that you would otherwise have to buy, on CD or iTunes or whatever, downloading it is stealing. even if it doesn't feel like it.

i'm not telling anyone what to do, just telling you what's what. do with it what you will.

this year, it's buy.com for me! they've got this promotion going with google--if you checkout using "google checkout," they knock $20 off an order of $50 or more. the other day, i split some of my son's gifts into 3 separate orders, and saved 60 bucks! it takes a little time to figure out how to group stuff into $50 increments, but if i can save $60 on every $150 i spend, it's worth it. that's a lot of dough.

most of it is BRILLIANT!

actually, it was "god," (lower case "g").

thanks, doglover. good to know.

Sprawled------- I'm just a student, like you!

well, don't ___ with your hands. use your entrenching tool! :P

(while we're at it: Firesign Theatre's 40th Anniversary!)