dancing

So says George, must be true huh George? You didn't get that from any of the ones that are spiritually minded here.

I also wish that sirguessalot would bow back in. Should he find the time to do so. My son who is a moderator on a forum tells me that I shouldn't post a few posts in a row. Lol, he's so funny. Just trying to communicate better.

And I don't worship the bible. It is a source for many things but not to be the golden calf.

I'm all for taking care of people in every sense of careing and feeding and seeing to it that their needs are met either by competent work or charity. What I'm not for is taking scripture to back up the programs if the scripture used is not talking about the particular principle. There are plenty of scriptures that say to help those in need of physical needs. The don't work/don't eat verse does not apply to any of these physical situations. It is not about whether or not someone can do physical work to provide physical food on the table. In fact if it is applyed in that way it goes against many of the other scriptures that say just the opposite. And that is one of my objections. The other is that of excluding input from other people. Perhaps you need a quick answerr? I don't think so. Those who have posted on this thread have been underestamated as to what they can contribute to the ideals and principles that you are calling Christian. Call them what you want. It's no wonder Thomas Jefferson was considered to not be a Christian. He probably wanted it that way. Have you ever seen the Jefferson Bible? It's all about morals. If others are underestamated then I suspect that the underestamator is underestamating him/her self also.

btw, Greek2me, I don't have any preconceived ideas or notions about your reasons for posting this thread and your posts. I do wonder why a lot of people are not considered a valued asset to the discussion regardless of what is initialy perceived about people. Misunderstanding is a big problem I suppose. We could just let things be that seem a way that may mean something else. Talking to myself too.

Well if it means that a person would be denyed food in Thess. might as well just put a bullet in his head because he will die of starvation if he don't eat. It don't work that way imo. As well as the references in other places I think refer to spiritual things. I mean it's obvious that if someone don't work they will soon run out of food. And I would give him some food to eat even if he didn't want to work. But not forever. That person would have to get a job and work eventually.

Actually Mark it has quite the different implications that are expressed in Thessalonians then that are expressed in matters pertaining to taking care of those who cannot feed themselves.

Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. It takes a little sweat to eat the bread of life. But worth it.

To me this seems to be addressing actually experiencing and living spiritually. Working as in facing the experience of working out your own salvation rather then relying on others to do it for you. Therefore they would not be able to eat, digest, and bring the fruit of righteousness to bear on their own. For there are many that will not face the Christ and run and hide from that which is hidden within. For various reasons of course. And not to put anyone in a bad light but expressly disclose that it is the individual person who must work and eat rather then to be a busybody in others salvation.

You could be right Mark. I just tend to see the working and eating aspect as being more of a spiritual nature. And I do appreciate how politely you addressed this issue with me. No tanks or missiles or bombs...hehe...thanks. :)

I'll restate it in case you missed it. If you read the chapter, it's quite clear it's not speaking of physical food. Therefore cannot be applied as such and was never intended to be.

To take a phrase like that or any thing said in the bible and try to build some kind of political moral basis for increasing or decreasing any government program is sheer lunacy and is not a "spiritually minded" christian at all. Lack of understanding what was said and done and written and WHY has caused no end of HATRED MISUNDERSTANDINGS WARS AND POLITICAL BACK STABBING AS WELL AS PERSONAL GRUDGES BETWEEN PEOPLE. AND IF THESE PEOPLE HOLD OFFICE THEY BRING ENTIRE COUNTRIES TO WAR. Point at hand Greek2me does not understand sirguessalot's reference to Jesus. Therefore attempts to exclude sirguessalot from this thread. Shall we also exclude him from all threads? Or just the ones Greek2me picks. Greek2me, you have apparently skipped the Thessolonians reference. Am I to conclude or get the idea that you do not see what was said or straight out against what was said. Another War I suppose.

What's that?

So, Mr Allan, can you handle an interfaith dialogue without trying to convert or accuse or change anyone's mind about anything? It is not like anything that twi ever even considered or thought enough about to actually explore the possibilities of the benefit to a person rather then an organization or any kind of selfish motives. You say everyone has a hidden agenda. I don't think so. Some just can't see the agenda for various reasons. There is no purpose to it but to have an interfaith dialogue. What anyone makes of it is their business. Do you have some curiosity? A little courage? Yes there is fear in people to not say what they believe. No one likes rejection of any kind. Hearts are tender and should be loved always. Now you can come back with things I've said to throw off the point. But consider them an alarm clock to try to wake you up. Have you reached your limit on Christ and who he is in you? Not that that will be discussed or not. I like to hear lots of views and beliefs. And I'm not afraid. Are you? Is God limited to what you believe?

btw Mark I've seen where the Catholic Church has helped more people then I've ever seen before in regards to physical needs. Even in the category of those who cannot take care of themselves from birth. I have worked at a number of Catholic places that help all sorts of people. The work of it is commendable to say the least.

What is sent from God?

Sirguessalot, Yes. And the last three phrases are the worst. What goes around comes around. Thank God for His Mercy and Grace and His Fire. ~A Poem of God's Grace~ > I did not know His love before, > the way I know it now. > I could not see my need for Him, > my pride would not allow. > I had it all, without a care, > the "Self-sufficient" lie. > My path was smooth, my sea was still, > not a cloud was in my sky. > I thought I knew His love for me, > I thought I'd seen His grace, > I thought I did not need to grow, > I thought I'd found my place. > But then the way grew rough and dark, > the storm clouds quickly rolled; > The waves began to rock my ship, > I found I had no hold. > The ship that I had built myself > was made of foolish pride. > It fell apart and left me bare, > with nowhere else to hide > I had no strength or faith to face > the trials that lay ahead, > And so I simply spoke His name > and bowed my weary head. > His loving arms enveloped me, > and then He helped me stand. > He said, "You still must face this storm, > but I will hold your hand." > So through the dark and lonely night > He guided me through pain. > I could not see the light of day > or when I'd smile again. > Yet through the pain and endless tears, > my faith began to grow. > I could not see it at the time, > but my light began to glow. > I saw God's love in brand new light, > His grace and mercy, too. > For only when all self was gone could > Jesus Christ's love shine through. > It was not easy in the storm, > I sometimes wondered why. > At times I thought, "I can't go on." > I'd hurt, and doubt, and cry. > But Jesus never left my side > He guided me each day. > Through pain and strife, > through fire and flood, > He helped me all the way. > And now I see as ne'er before > how great His love can be > How in my weakness He is strong, > how Jesus cares for me! > He worked it all out for my good, > although the way was rough. > He only sent what I could bear, > and then He said, "Enough!" > He raised His hand and said, "Be still!" > He made the storm clouds cease. > He opened up the gates of joy > and flooded me with peace. > I saw His face now clearer still, > I felt His presence strong, > I found anew His faithfulness, > He never did me wrong. > And now I know more storms will come, > but only for my good, > For pain and tears have helped me grow > as nothing ever could. > I still have so much more to learn > as Christ works in me; > If in the storm I'll love Him more, > that's where I want to be!

Clearly to the spiritually minded this is not about working a secular job and eating your meat and veggies. The working and eating is there for all to see. No one who will not put the effort into a thing will be able to eat of it. Thank God. Yes then rain falls on the just and the unjust. The just know what it is while the other does not although it is raining all over the place.

2 Thessalonians 3 1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you; 8Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you: 9Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us. 10For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. 11For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. 12Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread. 13But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing. 14And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother. 16Now the Lord of peace himself give you peace always by all means. The Lord be with you all. 17The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write. 18The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

What does that mean Mr. Allan? Apprentice? To What? I don't think you know much about anything. You seem to be VPW's little aussie boy. But hey, do whatever you want, so will I.

My pm's are not going thru Bramble. But what I write will make sense eventually.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen. By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment. By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Edgar Allan Poe Dreamland Poem lyrics of Dreamland by Edgar Allan Poe. By a route obscure and lonely, Haunted by ill angels only, Where an Eidolon, named NIGHT, On a black throne reigns upright, I have reached these lands but newly From an ultimate dim Thule- From a wild clime that lieth, sublime, Out of SPACE- out of TIME. Bottomless vales and boundless floods, And chasms, and caves, and Titan woods, With forms that no man can discover For the tears that drip all over; Mountains toppling evermore Into seas without a shore; Seas that restlessly aspire, Surging, unto skies of fire; Lakes that endlessly outspread Their lone waters- lone and dead,- Their still waters- still and chilly With the snows of the lolling lily. By the lakes that thus outspread Their lone waters, lone and dead,- Their sad waters, sad and chilly With the snows of the lolling lily,- By the mountains- near the river Murmuring lowly, murmuring ever,- By the grey woods,- by the swamp Where the toad and the newt encamp- By the dismal tarns and pools Where dwell the Ghouls,- By each spot the most unholy- In each nook most melancholy- There the traveller meets aghast Sheeted Memories of the Past- Shrouded forms that start and sigh As they pass the wanderer by- White-robed forms of friends long given, In agony, to the Earth- and Heaven. For the heart whose woes are legion 'Tis a peaceful, soothing region- For the spirit that walks in shadow 'Tis- oh, 'tis an Eldorado! But the traveller, travelling through it, May not- dare not openly view it! Never its mysteries are exposed To the weak human eye unclosed; So wills its King, who hath forbid The uplifting of the fringed lid; And thus the sad Soul that here passes Beholds it but through darkened glasses. By a route obscure and lonely, Haunted by ill angels only, Where an Eidolon, named NIGHT, On a black throne reigns upright, I have wandered home but newly From this ultimate dim Thule.

Back | Contents | Forward How to Enjoy the Bible by E. W. Bullinger 1916 Part II—The Words Canon VII No One Passage to be Interpreted in a Sense Repugnant to Others. This Canon is laid down in the twentieth of "the Thirty-nine Articles of Religion" of the Church of England. That article treats of "The Authority of the Church." It says: "The Church hath power to decree Rites or Ceremonies, and authority in Controversies of Faith: and yet it is not lawful for the Church to ordain any thing that is contrary to God's Word written, neither may it so expound one place of Scripture that it be repugnant to another..." With the claim here made as to "The Authority of the Church" we are not now concerned; but we cannot deny that, in the latter clause quoted, we have a very important principle laid down: a principle which we shall do well ever to bear in mind in our study of the "words which the Holy Ghost teacheth." This principle is true: because, as no one text is repugnant to another, it is clear that to explain one as being so repugnant, is what cannot lawfully be done. If one passage appears to be repugnant to others, then there is something amiss either in the translation of it, or in our understanding of it. In either case it behooves us to examine it and see where the fault lies. The one, apparently more difficult passage, must be understood, explained, and interpreted by the others which are quite plain and clear. If this method be not possible, then the difficult passage must be left unsolved for the present, with the prayer that God will, in His own time, bestow the needed grace and light. But in no case must we allow that one difficult passage to disturb all the others which are clear; nor must we give heed for a moment to any false teaching which Tradition may have founded upon its misunderstanding or perversion of that one passage, whether through ignorance or malice. 1. We may apply this Canon to the Scripture concerning "the Rich man and Lazarus." Without entering at all into the question of the interpretation of this Scripture, we would merely call attention to many other passages of Scripture which are perfectly clear and plain as to Man and Death, and to the condition of man "after death." These do not at all agree with what this Scripture seems to teach. What then is our duty as humble students of, and firm believers in, the truth of all and of every part of God's Word? Are we to believe one and leave the others? Are we to explain the one to our own satisfaction, and then explain the others away? This is clearly impossible, though it is what the majority of Bible readers do! If we cannot reconcile them, then let us wait for further light, and "with meekness, and all lowliness, with long-suffering, forbearing one another in love," "let each esteem other better than ourselves," and let us each suffer long with other fellow-believers, who think they see a way of interpreting all that is said on this subject in Scripture, in harmony with Scripture, and with satisfaction to their own consciences before God.