jr4jc

I googled something this morning and found current posts on grease spot ?!?! I thought gsc was done and gone. so I’m dropping by to say Hi and I’ll check back randy lee jr4jc

getting closer to GOD and more like Him that is the goal, we did come in contact with some sicko's and i do not excuse their abuse of others when they should have been caring for them. i just was stating that the way was a place i got to know GOD better and became more like Him and i hope others would realize that too and be thankful to GOD for the good, while despising the BAD. i did not know any of the sick stuff was going on, i wish i had known that someone was f...ing with someone i cared about, i would probably be in jail if they had caught me for what i would have done. [there is 2 uses for baseball bats and baseball is only one of them] sick bastards they were and in some cases still are--GOD will sort them out. the way was a place some of us got our first glimps of God and His love for us- a man that says one thing and does another is accountable for both what he said and what he did---don't be fooled GOD is real and alive and able to take care of Himself and His creation and any and all of us.

GOD i cannot believe this thread is still going on, it's warped and twisted stop it, go help an old lady across the street, do something but this discussion is SICK rascal said it so well -- these guys were twisted and we quite often saw their bent let their sickness die ---ie what i mean is realize that the way twisted a lot of things with thier---this is what that means--crap stretching what is in scripture to meet their needs [lusts is more accurate] here's one... what's the camel going through the eye of a needle???????? no matter what you think, know or have studied or been taught we all KNOW it means something that is difficult if you want to argue over what it is then it is because you want to argue likewise here our Lord suffered horribly for us--that shows us His love for us, that shows us His obedience to the Father that shows us that suffering is temporary. ask HIM what happened, if you have the spirit of truth HE may lead you into all truth [boy that sounds familiar] but to hash this stupid subject to death---are you people sick too!!!!! you know HE suffered a lot let it go at that

i stand dissected and i guess corrected--- by WORDWOLF you seem to have an attitude that it is SOOOO important to use every word exactly correctly and quote the right person the right way.....we know where you got your training, so when you complain about the way, look in a mirror, your alot like them, my statements were vague and i didn't go and look up exactly which person said what first......ie my point was the way taught some good stuff and alot of it was from outside the way and the way sold books by bullinger and bishop pallai and others so they weren't hiding the fact that these others had brought their areas of expertise to the table. AND i know i am talking about the way i saw from 1979 to 1985, i cannot of course speak to after that. but i was a part of it for the last years of VPW and left before he passed. i know what i heard and saw, i know what was practiced by my friends, and it was GOOD. when i moved to iowa and had an intrim corps girl in charge of about 4 fairly mature good christians, and she taught reproof ALL THE TIME then we moved to nashville where i heard some guy teach taht all the ethiopians were doing is wasting Oxygen unless they get saved, [[compassion at it's finest]] soon thereafter we left, cause heartless people that obviously weren't listening to GOD and did not have HIS heart were becoming more prevelant and were being put in charge of twigs. i did not see region and state leaders be this OFF but they were putting or leaving these people in charge of twigs. i did try to go up the way tree to deal with this heartless Godless stuff and was ignored, so i concluded they weren;t much different than the twig leaders i was seeing--- heartless/Godless oldies and i are saying that vpw had some things wrong, the biggest i see looking back is trying to do 5 things to get prayers answered--wants and needs, able and willing......the teaching was a stretch from what scripture says and means at best, but what was HORRIBLE is it really was saying we can MAKE GOD do something or keep GOD from doing something, and WE CAN't. forget your formula, your bible and mine says ASK. not plan and scheme, just ask. asking implies the one being asked deterimines if they are going to do what is asked of them or not. that is what asking means. and that is the word the bible uses. the deep truth of this is it shows what you think about GOD's love towards you, to ask and leave what you asked in HIS hands. i speak in tongues, cause of the way i heard GOd's voice and new what it was, cause of the way i have seen people miraculously healed, most of them when i was involved with the way, some since but not as often or as miraculous without signs miracles and wonders --- and GOD's presence voice and speaking in tongues, the way must have been very confusing and bizzarr, i feel sorry for you thatdid not get out of it what i did, we did walk with GOD despite what might have been going on behind closed doors. we did see healings, we did learn to study the bible and in the long run, learning how they came up with their conclusions, taught us how to study the bible ourselves and showed us we were led into truth by men instead of being led into all truth by the spirit, the way the bible says we are supposed to.

a child w a father is what we are--the more i study and read the bible the more i realize how simple it is, and that GOD and JEsus have done and are doing it. my job is to climb into HIS lap be a child and obey when and what i hear--because it is in my best interest that HE would tell me to do something or to not do something but all of it hinges on what they did and are doing beliefs i have some of the ways still, and others drove me to look for myself at the bible and i found out how how wrong they were--but without them teaching me it wrong i would not have had the question to seek an answer for a perfect example i have a good freind the guy i mentioned earlier that i hitch hiked and prayed for rides with--he is in an ex-way group we corresponded via email for a couple years pretty tight and he taught me what he learned about faith in a nut shell it is---GOD is GOD and we can't make HIM do anything and we can't keep HIM from doing anything prayer is asking--and that is exactly what the bible says--ask in prayer, not make a formula or jump through a hoop or give a dollar to get, but ask that said FAITH is trusting- faith is relaxing in stressful circumstances because you trust GOD it is not gritting your teeth and tightening your gut --putting forth more effort- it is TRUST in your FATHER< knowing HE knows you and what is best for you and of course can do it, HE is not held back by the devil or your doubt or anything HE is GOD for cryin gout loud about a year later i went to visit this freind and he and his exway group had gone back to the ways formula type faith cause they seemed to think it reeped more results. like gamblers telling you how statistics work is what that is

the way taught great stuff and everybody on here or anywhere that talks bad about them i think is saying they taught some good stuff but not enough---we wouldn't be putting them down if it was ALL BAD< we'd just walk away - i think WE saw light at the end of tunnel and thought the way would get us there--how to get there is simple, walk with GOD personally churchs are fine, BUT no where in the bible are we told to meet weekly or on sunday so go if and when you want to---NO WHERE In the bible are we told to give authority to any MAN, " the head of the man is CHRIST" so if you go to church don't give that away--and yes the WAY took that in many ways. my eyes were opened with focus on the family and promise keepers and joni erickson tada and billy grahm and many others -- after leaving the way i saw GOD wasn't near as concerned about the trinity as i was, HE did miracles and healings lots of places, as for the ways teachings and formulas--i had an eye opener that came years after the fact--a friend [wow brother] and i were hitch hiking a lot that year and we prayed for LOTS of rides for future days about 30 different scenarios and my favorite was i prayed to get picked up in a rolls royce and you KNOW the first rolls royce i ever saw in person was the one that stopped and picked me up and gave me a ride, but anyway we prayed for about 30 rides, and got about 20 of those, that later [years later] showed me GOD HEARD ME AND HE IS GOD NOT SANTA CLAUSE OR A GENIE -- and that was powerful to me 2cor1;3 ¶ Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort; 4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God. GOD does use us but i also agree the HE has no hands but our hands stuff is egotisical he's could have evangalizing doneky's as we know, when HE works through us it is us joining HIM in HIS work [that is from experiencing GOD- a very good course] joining HIM in HIS work is a privledge cause HE could do it without us, angles donkeys other people.... i was about to stop coming to this web site before i saw this poll-- i do not like to around ex-wayers in numbers because, and especially in numbers they have not strayed far enough toward the truth for me.

giving credit where credit is due i learned to walk with God while in the way, so much so that when the time came to leave i did---i am not just blowing my own horn so hear me out---ministries or moves of God have a time and place, a function, i personally have NEVER seen it clearer than with PROMISE KEEPERS--i got involved with a local bunch and we met weekly for years, went to local big meetings...and it was wonderful---my son and i went to the promise keepers thing in washington DC which if any of you were at can testify was very good and easily had over 1 million and probably 2 million people---[i do not say that cause i counted them but because of arial photography and someone i knew knew the scientific way to etsimate people---but this was after the million man march --that muslim thing---and therefore promise keepers made a point to NOT mention numbers--so as to cause conflict--anway i degress--promise keepers was wonderful and it ran it's course and should of had a huge climax/conclusion at the washington deal---but instead it lingered and limped on--- i do not know when or how the way should have gone-- i just use that as an example of GOD clearly using a group for a while--man almost always keeps these things going after GOD has left [which HE doesn't fully leave. but HIS focus and the groups function are no longer there, but what is wierd is these group's often do not notice this ] anyway i enjoyed the way while there, learned a lot, but more so have learned MORE by questioning and looking at the bible and GOD for myself now that i have NO GURU's to help/hinder me. again i recommend online bible [[[ www.onlinebible.net]]] to study and learn from--but not to learn the facts better to argue better.... but to get to know GOD---the grace is HUGE, but we have a LORD They love us so much---but they do not like us hurting ourselves and others [[dad and big brother-that is] i use the bible on PC and different readings to un-learn or better stated to find out the whole picture, cause the way showed us lots of tips of icebergs that no one group had all in one place, be it that most of the biggest ones came from outside of VPW and the way, he still brought them together manifestations of holy spirit---great info [of course started by bullinger in his 'word studies on the holy spirit'] but bullinger believed the manifestations had passed, so his view was clearer and blurrier---he has no dog in the fight- he did not manifest speaking in tongues etc...therefore his work is not slighted by what he personally did or didn;t do but instead is very accruate--the twist is he believed we couldn't do it, and we can aramamaic stuff---george lamsa red thread and figures of speech and numbers in scripture...bullinger-- bullinger lacking manifestations was a little to much on info and facts and not enough on walking with GODand heart, as i see it and VPW added manifesting then went froward with info being most important for how are you gonna lead and organize people if you [as the bible teaches] teach them to stand on their own two feet and walk with GOD themsleves---for crying out loud they might not give you money and you might have to work for a living ;( i see it on this web site and in other out of the way groups that looking for hidden meaning is king seeing what is plain is wonderful---GOD is GOD and is real and is personal [one on one] Jesus did die for us, though a little catholicized Mel gibsons movie is the best representation of how much Jesus loves you--though that is not stated clearly in the movie, if YOU look for it kowing about His love, seeing what HE did takes on new meaning, then you see the Fathers love by ressurecting Jesus as He will us.

do you see their GOAL was to make US dependant on THEM we needed the man of GOd or those that are able to read the GREEK!!!! to tell us what it means we don't need to read it for ourselves they will for us, and if we read it for ourlselves THEY will tell us where we are wrong!!!! [[[[it was a no win situation]]]] they had so much wrong, bless their hearts!!! GOd ends up not in charge 2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. how did the serpent beguile eve??? he found out what eve felt about God by how she answered his questions. the number one question for us and eve and everybody is/was DO YOU WANT A BETTER GOD????? how you answer that can take you away from the one true God that loves you but yet doesn't pften ask your opinion when HE does things, and often what HE does doesn't make sense. but HE is still GOD and HE still loves you!!

ok i admit i'm a little warped, but does anybody else remember spirit in the athelete-boy's commercial for the way corp. it showed some guy out mowing the lawn at a campus and misses a swatch and lcm goes out and reems out for attention to detail crap - like that was some sort of magical power that would keep devils spirits away----didn't work though did it---anyway i used to have a huge yard i mowed and one ofthe first times i mowed it i missed a swatch saw it while on the next section but decided to leave it as a TRIBUTE to atheletes in the spirit- boy i still do it once in a while if i think about it and my poor wife just thinks i'm not htat good at mowing the lawn

sorry that got so long--- fyi---which is better; to love your neighbor and get some of scripture wrong or getting scripture right but using and abusing your neighbor??? getting scripture right is NOT as important as having your heart right and loving people the biggest thing that keeps mature christians from evangelizing is they get to a point that they KNOW they don't have all the answers and think that is important when evangelizing a new christian KNOWS that what they found is great they know they don't fully understand it and still want to share it. it's easy to get focused on the knowledge end of this stuff, but what converts people is GOD. when they see your heart as an example of selfless love, they see GOD when they see you walk talk and hear from GOD and do the right thing at the right time- they see GOD when they see miracles and healings they see GOD, but you have to walk with GOD to show them GOD. you don't need to know every verse int he bible correctly to do this, just be a child with our Father. as for our personal lives, my biggest problems i caused, and with GOD's help can and am fixing. to often we want to spend our money then pray for GOD to pay our bills we want to eat poison then pray that GOD keep us healthy and so on....we need to own our lives. GOD BLESS hope my ramblings help, i have a heart especially for those like myself were sidetracked by the way, but i have to say i wouldn;t be who i am and have the walk w god that i have if i had not met the way. i am very sorry for those that were exploited and victimzed, my heart goes out to you, and for the record if i had known i would now probably be in jail for what i would of done in your defense. i try to be a good christian and i know 'vengence is mine saith the lord' but i also see making a whip and using it as appropriate sometimes too, though our laws would have locked me up, i would have done it. i can't say enough about how SICK i think those people were/are GOD will take care of them in this world and in the next. don't you wonder where LCM is and what he thinks about his past and present and future!?!???? one last thing 'vengence is mine i will repay' i've seen in some of these passages means HE will take care of the bad guy involved, but also HE will take care of the victim--that is part of HIM repaying. my prayer is that hearts be healed, comfort from GOD would be sought and obtained, and sometimes this comes through people. GOD is a good GOD and why bad things happen to good people i don;t think we will fully understand till we're in heaven.

correction i put 1peter 1:20 and of course meant 2 peter 1:20 and look at what these versions say Robertsons word pictures says ‘No prophecy of Scripture comes out of private disclosure,’ Young’s literal 2 Peter 1:20 this first knowing, that no prophecy of the Writing doth come of private exposition, 21 for not by will of man did ever prophecy come, but by the Holy Spirit borne on holy men of God spake. we had to ignore vs 21 to believe what the way taught, because it re states, what vs 20 is saying, no-where in 2 peter or in 2 timothy do we see reading scripture to make sure it is understood correctly --yet that is what the way taught. 2 timothy paul is telling timothy the man who co wrote half of paul's letters, and traveled with him extensively at the end of his ministry---he is encouraging him on walking with GOD now that he will go on without paul and yet have to deal with people, he is nto telling timothy how to read and understand what he co wrote, that would be stupid. nor is he telling him to go to scripture to find hidden or missing meanings. that is how the way took it, and if that is not how paul wrote it to timothy then that is reading into it, and if we can do that then we can make the bible say anything we want. [=as we have seen that is possible] the solution is walking w god as a child w a father, letting HIM be in charge, and reading the bible for it says no more no less. 2 peter is talking about the authority of scripture, where it came from, it's authority is that it came from GOD. the bible is not like our government where one part of it makes a law, another says what it means and a third enforces it the way they think it should be enforced. GOD is the author HE knows what HE meant in every given passage, and it is not usually hard to find out what HE meant if we stop reading into stuff and just read what is there, in context these 2 verses were taken out of context to say what the way taught. and having HIM at your side while you read/studyt, not wanting to make the bible say something so you can get away with something, but to really want to know what GOD meant, and what GOD wants. it's not hard especially when you hear HIS voice. but it is your walk and you KNOW when you hear GOD and when you don't and when you THINK you heard HIM, being honest with yourself and with GOD you will proceed nicely, decieve yourself and that is just what you have done, cause you ain;'t fooling GOD. with the bible reference books available today and the many opinions [versions] of the bible, we are not at a loss at alternatives to difficult passages, but without GOD at your side you'll find what YOU think it says. let GOD be GOD and the bible speak for itself. don't be afraid to study the bible but don't think there are hidden keys to all of sudden having an abundant life, finally defeatingthe devil crap, GOD loves you, talk to HIM, HE is the key, not some formula and don't glorify the devil he can't do what you in heart won't let him, and remember job, the devil only can do what GOD allows so much of the bible is straight forward, i know VPW used to say taht, but his actions showed that there was so much hidden stuff that was important for him and them to find out so they could tell us. the most important stuff is straight forward, GOD loves you, talk to HIM, HE wants to be a part of your life HE will help us in different ways at different times. i saw in readers digest 'good sailors don't come from calm seas' i think to many belivers think that GOD's will is to make them into a spoiled brat. we would not want to do that to our children so why would we think GOD is about to do that to us. and as most of us know a lot of vp's work was bullingers' just to name one. Pr 6:32 But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul. Ex 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery. 2peter 2:10 ¶ This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings; 11 yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord. 12 But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish. 13 They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, revelling in their pleasures while they feast with you. 14 With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood! 15 They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor, who loved the wages of wickedness. 16 But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey—a beast without speech—who spoke with a man’s voice and restrained the prophet’s madness. 17 These men are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. 18 For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him. 20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22 Of them the proverbs are true: "A dog returns to its vomit," and, "A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud." Ac 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. Ac 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. 1Co 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife. 1Co 6:13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body. 1Co 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. **********************1Co 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband***************************** fornication can only mean what we thought it meant before we met the way!!!!!!!!! adultery is fonrication where one or both of the people involved are married to someone else none of this spiritual crap---it is sex with someone you ain't married to!!! ONLY married people are to enjoy the parts of each others body that are covered by bathing suits

The way taught that we were [or they were] to study the bible to find TRUTH, but they taught this in a way that made it seem like GOD was hiding it, testing us. willing to approve us and bless abundantly our lives only when and if we found this elusive truth. first let me show you what i found in 2 tim 2:15 study=be diligent to show yourself approved= to show yourself true [[stupid to think WE could show others we have God's approval OR stupid to think we could show God that we are worthy of His approval, this meaning a stamp of approval just doesn't make sense no matter how you look at it] this is a different word then the one used in acts 2:22 and this one means TRUE in classical greek it is found of a banker that makes his coins FULL weight does not shave to much off the edges when he makes the coin ie the meaning is TRUE as apposed to counterfiet unto GOD = unto GOD a workman = someone who puts forth effort that needeth not ot be ashamed = what it says rightly dividing= as in proverbs 3:5,6 though a slightly diferent form of the word. getting a right path, a correct cut, as a mason with rocks makes one cut the right place, a single correct cut ie the right thing to do, the right way to go.... the word of truth = true words and it means true words, it does not say BIBLE or scripture or writings...TRUE WORDS and rightly dividing does not mean we have to disect them to find their hidden meaning if you look at the context of the verses before and after, what Paul is saying is true words come from GOD not wives tales, sayings, fables, superstitions true words come from GOD this is NOT saying we need to disect KJV and the stephanus greek or other texts to get the true words it is saying TRUE WORDS will give you your correct path, you get that from the words used correctly in this verse and looking at the verses preeding and following this verse, there is nothing about elusive scripture to buy obtain and read and re-read. but there is a lot of go to GOD not to fables and sayings, ie people my paraphrase would read like this Be diligent to stay true to GOD, and it will take labor, don’t let that make you think your wrong, getting straight, correct paths from true words [[which come from GOD]] what this means is there is no verse to set people on a quest for TRUTH that seems elusive, and that need a guru to help you find. likewise 1peter1:21 is about how scripture comes into being, NOT about reading and making a decision on what YOU think it means, propehcy of scripture is not you reading it and deiciding what it means, prophecy of scripture is just that, GOD telling a prophet what to write down. the bible is pretty straight forward in KJV form let alone re-reading others [english greek hebrew aramaic..]along side of it and a little study and prayer for the difficult stuff and pooff no guru needed ehp 4:11.... if read for what it says, these gift ministries are to raise a beliver up to stand on their on two feet independantly, walking w and hearing GOD, not always needing the GURU!!!! the way was big on as we all know - power for abundant living like that is elusive and we need a guru to help us here also-- you know what power for abundant living really is. GOD ASKING GOD in prayer is just that ASKING, the FAITH that is involved is TRUSTING [that is what faith means] that your ASKING is HEARD, by a GOD that is all knowing all powerful and LOVES you and has your best interests at heart therefore HE will do what is best for you. steps and things we had to do to get prayers answered, sound like we have jump through hoops, to earn a treat from a master, not a loving father with His kids HE loves so much that HE had is son die for them. Ro 8:32 He that spared not His own Son but delivered Him up for us all how shall he not with him also freely give us all things. ASKING is asking, not some word play of manipulation. next time you ask your wife to fix steak for supper, realize that after you ask you don't sit there and try not to doubt that she will do it, you don't make sure that your needs and wants are equal, and all that other stuff we were taught to do to GOD. talk about making GOD impersonal and far away, they did that HE is not a genie or santa clause, nor is HE a computer that you need a formula for. likewise it is foolish to think we could keep HIM from doing what HE wants, NOR can we make HIM do something that HE does not want. HE's GOD !!! HE loves you HE is closer than your next breath HE is not playing games with you HE is light, honest + sincere, HE is RIGHT, as in righteous, right doing all the time. my signiture on here is something that hit me over the last year or two that the most powerful physical example of what happened spiritually the moment Jesus died, was the veil being torn. the holy of holies is now accessed by all of us we can climb up into HIS lap like children, not like all knowing guru's but as children that is how we do miracles and healings and that is how we got and how we give the spirit by being children that do not fully understand what the father is doing, but trust HIM and ask what we can do to help HIM hear HIM, being in relationship with HIM.

does it matter?!?!?!?? this whole question and i pose this as an answer not a rude insult if it comes from GOD then it comes from GOD ie a prophet is one that speaks for GOD< therefore saying what GOD told him to, or what GOD taught HIM too, ie prepared him to. a prophet / prophecy and revelation [word of wisdom word of knowledge] i see very closely intertwined i do not think all prophets were walking around, hearing then saying, hearing then saying, i think often they were saying what they had heard---past tense from GOD. still the message is FROM GOD. alot of what the way did they did to put themselves on a pedestal, ie they didn't do this, but we now do, crap. instead of humbly and thankfully being in GOD's presence and respecting that GOD was allowing them to take part in what HE was doing. pride cometh before a fall, and fall they did,

here we go--my .02 is not somethign that would be well embraced by most modern churches and definitely not WHAT THE WAY TAUGHT; i think LET ME REPEAT THAT ---I THINK i think i see hebrews 8 [actually several chapters before and after it, and jer 31:31 where it is quoted from] giving a glimpse of why we [christians] are the way we are and why our testament- the new testament was not kept intact [ie we do nto have ANY originals of the NT while the OT they counted every jot and title and it is preserved] i think and cannot say that enough, i think that GOD who could have had the NT kept intact like the OT, didn't because we are HIS people from a heart perspective, on talking terms with HIM. NOT chatper and verse perfect knowledge of things, but climb in HIS lap children of the Father, children that KNOW HIM, that walk with HIM because of GRACE and mercy, clay pots filled with something we don;'t fully understand and didn;t earn, beggars that have found a banquets. we can do miracles !!! -- and why??? gal 3:1 ¶ O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. {so many: or, so great} 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? our power is not in knowing exactly what to do by the letter and then doing it, it is byy our relationship with the Father. hearing HIM then doing what HE said, and poofff your in the right place at the right time doing the right thing that ONLY HE could orchestrate, and sometimes that will involve miracles or healings in the physical sense, sometimes it is just in the emotional or mental sense, ie caring about people and showing it, and in the process showing GOD cares too, look act acts 19, i callit the greatest thing GOD didn't do. read that intact for what it says and you get that people coverted when they saw that our GOD was a GOD of relationship, in this case with Paul, not a distant GOD that is impressed with pomp and circumstance, but someone that HAS relationships w people!! again just my .02 i always liked hbrews but never loved it till i got the bible on tape [and now cd] i read slow and therefore making it through a long book like hebrews in one sitting was difficult for me, but listening to it while driving it is an amazing and beautiful book, so i am throwing out if you don't yet listen to the bible get it on cd or tape, NT costs around $25 and at first i thought whoooa i am missing things because it keeps reading while i dwell on somethig after a week of listening i learned to stop the tape, rewind if need be, but mostly let it flow i'll listen to this book again soon and i have it in printed form at home, and for me this put a lot of the books of the nt in a WHOLE thought kinda of thing. hebrews only talks about 3 things give or take, but as long as it is if you read excerpts you lose that, listening start to finish, WOW a beautifully stated premise for Jesus being our high preist, and our sacrifice and what that meant to OT folks and what that means to us. back to our subject, i think that the word of GOD is alive and a single guy will get different things out of 1cor 11 than a married guy and a guy [myself a while back] going to a church that says you have follow leadership it is GOD set up will get something else from 1 cor 11.....and on and on, it is alive, like a living being it doesn't contradict while it has many facets,

i agree and most don't KNOW that Jesus quoted the apocropha several times, i don't get a lot out of them but HE quoted them?!!!! i indeed am writing a book as we speak... and i need to explain and appologize for not doing so to begin with, 2tim 2:15 the whole verse and of course it's place in paul's letter needs looked at study=be diligent to show yourself approved= to show yourself true [[stupid to think WE could show others we have God's approval OR stupid to think we could show God that we are worthy of His approval] this is a different word then the one used in acts 2:22 and means TRUE in classical greek it is found of a banker that makes his coins FULL weight does not shave to much off the edges when he makes the coin ie the meaning is TRUE sa apposed to counterfiet unto GOD = unto GOD a workman = someone who puts forth effort that needeth not ot be ashamed = what it says rightly dividing= as in proverbs 3:5,6 though a slightly diferent form of the word. getting a right path, a correct cut, as a mason with rocks makes one cut the right place, a single correct cut ie the right thing to do, the right way to go.... the word of truth = true words and it means true words if you look at the context of the verses before and after, true words come from GOD not wives tales, sayings, fables, superstitions true words of course can be revelation or scripture and not limited to just those [see 1tim4:7] my paraphrase would read like this Be diligent to stay true to GOD, and it will take labor, don’t let that make you think your wrong, getting straight, correct paths from the words of GOD [[which can be scripture or Revelation]] what this means is there is no verse to set people on a quest for TRUTH that seems elusive, and that need a guru to help you find. 1peter1:21 is about how scripture comes into being, NOT about reading and making a decision on what YOU think it means, it means what GOD meant it to the bible is pretty straight forward in KJV form let alone re-reading others [english greek hebrew aramaic..]along side of it and a little study and prayer for the difficult stuff and pooff no guru needed as i stated else where on here ehp 4:11.... if read for what it says, these gift ministries are to raise a beliver up to stand on their on two feet independantly, walking w and hearing GOD, not always needing the GURU!!!! look at how paul evangalized he did not setup churches till he revisited towns he had been too, because of how screwed up they had gotten, but originally i think the thinking was if a person can hear from GOD and knows the basics, what does he need other people around to LEAD him etc.... you got the spirit of TRUTH leading you into all truth, you have access to GOD since the veil is torn, GOD loves you and ain't playing hard to get, or as we were taught in the way---GOD watching to see if we could uncover the truth so that we could get His approval. how stupid is that, and we bought that!!!!???!? STUDY ie opening books or PC's does not get you GOD's approval, HE already loves you and has shown that, to get the acts 2:22 approval is a different story and again up to HIM!!! you can't earn it