oldiesman

Thanks for sharing that Greg.

This is part of the Greasespot experience. If I say something nice about TWI, someone may discredit what I say, to make TWI look bad. Same method. It's all part of the experience. Perhaps we should move onto some new business.

Tom, as I said before, I can't prove the statement I made. The person I referred to doesn't want to be involved. So you'll just have to make up your own mind whether it's right or wrong. If you don't believe what I say, I will take no offense -- because everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However I wish some others would extend to me the same courtesy. Rascal, I never called Coolwaters a liar. Please stop accusing me of calling someone a liar if I happen not to agree with all or part of their statements. You've done that more than once. Have you ever served on a jury? Jurors get to hear conflicting testimony, and it's up to them to decide what they want to believe, and what they don't. This board is a lot like that. We decide for ourselves what we want to believe based upon varied experiences.

Tom, I can't prove it...this is a board of opinions and I said my statement was "possible". In contrast to other statements made that are taken AS GOSPEL... By the way, do you believe everything you read on the internet, without question? Didn't think so.

I've heard lots of statements "I believe" are false accusations, but others disagree.

You need to speak in tongues in order to get saved.

No joke...that was the statement alleged.

And I stated that it's possible the Wierwille's didn't know what was going on. VP was out of the loop, was sick at the time with his glass eye and other things and having all his letters screened. Also, I have been informed (from someone who was in a position to know) that Don Wierwille didn't know about Coolwaters incident either. So I have expressed my doubt to part of Coolwaters story and have reasonable knowledge that what I believe is possible. You can doubt my story, or you can doubt Coolwaters story, you can believe both, or doubt both. But one thing is certain: there is no definite proof what Coolwaters said about all the Trustees knowing everything that was happening. There I've said it twice now. I hope I won't be asked about this again.

Saying one may be "worthy of death", and saying "satan will kill you", are unsemblable. Mike, if you're reading this, what's your take on this? Did you ever hear Dr. Wierwille say that if we left TWI, "satan would kill us"?

Alfakat you're misrepresenting the positions I've taken on this thread. Then you bring in the past, other positions I've taken about other issues and try to apply those to this one. Let's please keep the issues clear.

You're certainly the epitome of compassion.

Tom, not true. If the allegation is proved, I will believe it. You don't need a tape recorder...a statement of that magnitude should be in writing. Think about it...if Wierwille really said that, that 'satan would kill us' if we left TWI, don't you think it would be in writing somewhere? He'd be warning us not to leave...a huge warning because it affects our life. A Sunday Nite service tape would also suffice. Anything like that.

hey look, hey look, hey look at yourself, you haven't changed either... hey look, Feel free to define what compassion is I'm sure you're an expert.

Wordwolf, If you're suggesting the same thing Tom said, that Dr. Wierwille said 'satan would kill us' if we left the Way, please furnish proof of that. I'm not calling anyone a liar, just requesting proof. Thank you.

Wordwolf, I don't remember the thread you are speaking about and its possible I wasn't posting at that time. As far as asking for corroboration, that's justified especially with statements like that. May I ask, do you believe everything you read on the internet, without question?

Abigail, just because I don't answer trick questions in the framework presented, doesn't mean I'm dodging or ignoring the issue. Sometimes I prefer to answer questions in my own framework, and I think I answered enough questions on this thread for anyone to get the gist of where I'm coming from.

Satan would kill us? You heard VPW or other Trustees during his time say that? Chapter and verse please. Teaching tape # please? I definitely would have remembered that because I was in and out a few times.

Ok Abigail I think you and some of the other Mothers and others here think you're wiser than Solomon. Perhaps you folks should write your own bible? Have fun.

Have no idea. But before I accuse people of promotion and condoning child abuse, I prefer to get all the facts from all sides.

oldiesmanpics@aol.com

Tom, I've seen some instances of what I would call child abuse. It happened. I have no doubt that Coolwaters and others experienced it too. But to say that TWI (the Trustees at that time), condoned it, promoted it, or infer that we in TWI were part of a "system" of child abuse all those years, is simply false. If it's true, prove it. I haven't seen proof. The issue of the "rod" is relevant because those who believe use of the rod constitutes child abuse also believe TWI engaged in child abuse. Simple. Nothing will change their minds.

Shazdancer, I think they did stop it at one point. Lindyhopper said that during one rock, they corrected everyone because it was seen that folks got overboard with it. But, as evidenced on this thread, there are some folks who believe even the "right way" is still child abuse. Some folks now believe hitting is never justified, at all. Let's be clear on that.

Shazdancer, A fable is just that, a story that is thought provoking. But thanks for sharing what you were taught in TWI...it doesn't sound like child abuse to me...despite what some believe. One thing is certain and I'm sure of...there are some folks who DEFINITELY believe the bible teaches/encourages child abuse. If not, they would have believed what you're saying/sharing about what TWI taught. Thanks.

Coolwaters, once again, you're labelling all of TWI from your morbid, accusative, half-truth reality. You may accuse me of looking at only the positive side, and the positives of people; perhaps a fair conclusion. But you DEFINITELY look, focus and continue to promote only the trash. I think what I said before was correct...you think continuous evil of certain people and groups. Please don't deny it.

Taking the worst of beatings, crimes, rapes, etc. and using examples like that and trying to compare that to parents biblically correcting their children with the rod, just doesn't wash. It doesn't apply, we're talking apples and oranges. Nice try though.