SFSailor

Well, I wouldn't bother buying anything he sang on. It's personal taste but I just don't like his style. Dilana would have been a good, and different choice. The Iceland guy was good, but Lukas? Nope, just don't like him at all. SFSailor

Well, I'm watching the finally right now. I have this feeling it's gonna be Lukas, and I would see him if he was fronting my favorite band. Let alone this group of dropouts... Let the suspense continue... 15 minutes more or so... SFSailor

I, on the other hand, think that with only 3 fatalities involving Sting Rays during the entire history of Austrailia, it has little to do with his involvment with snakes or any sort of bravado involving Black Mambas. What happened here was a very unfortunate set of circumstances that do not come about often. Speaking for myself, I will miss Mr. Irvin. He was a very entertaining fellow who actually managed to teach something valuable while being entertaining. SFSailor

The good news is that I pulled the rip-cord and haven't spoken to them in a few months. No shed tears or emails asking what happened to me, or if I was alive or dead. In that end, that was truely what demonstrated how fscked up TWI is. SFSailor

It was really. That's why I put the smile on it. I also said my best friend is from Ohio. Man he goes on and on about Ohio. He's a brilliant computer programmer, but if you saw him walking down the street you would think it was a large farmboy. If you saw him with his asian wife you would probably think he's a one of the guys this law is after. She's 25 but looks about 16. I really think laws like this are a terrible idea. I've been out with my friend and his wife and he gets dirty looks from "decent white folk" all the time. His wife actually had people approach her to see if she needed "rescuing" in a restarant when he went to the head. This kinda law scares me. (on topic) As for insults, my friends and I always rag on other's home states and most anything else. I'm sorry everyone is so offended. I didn't mean it to be personal. SFSailor

Rum, Yeah, that might work. Allthough it's almost frightening what internet and cell phones have done to some of my favorite spots around the world. Fly halfway around the world and run into... Us. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! SFSailor

I'm sorry to hear that. I just brough my baby back from the yards and, well it didn't go too good. :) Another problem cropped up and I'm busy throwing more money in the hole. Where do you keep your boat? SFSailor

Bluzeman (Rick), Read back. I generally called people from Ohio dumb hicks. Much like the dumb hicks from Texas. A lot like the dumb hicks from Oklahoma. Different, but similar to the freakish fruits & nuts in California, and about the same as the stupid hicks from the California central valley. In general, these things are true. If they don't apply to you, your family, and all your friends, I woudn't take it so personal. Afterall it's just a general statement about the stupidity of any large group that starts passing terrible laws. Read back. You are the one who then made a very non-general targeted personal attack. Followed closely by Sudo's even meaner spirited very personal attacks. Imagine if you will, all of us sitting in a bar talking about this new law, and I said "Ohio hicks, dumb et cetera", while smiling and laughing. What would happen? It's jockularity. (Big enough word for you Sudo?) I'm smiling, and if you're from Ohio then you will no doubt have a rejoinder. 99% of the time, it would be a fun, friendly, teasing response. Your responses here, very personal ones, would probably start a fight. I've spent a lot of years staying in touch and making friends on the internet. I'm actually pretty shocked by the thin skin and general venom I've encountered in this thread. "Yo mamma" or some similar response, would have made me smile, and made you a friend (such as they are in cyber-space). But hey, enjoy your negative anger and hatred towards a stranger who never intended for you to take it so fscking personal. SFSailor

Nolonger, Works of art aye. She is really good. How's sailing? I got soooo many boat problems. :P SFSailor

Venomous Sudo. Are you from Ohio too? I'm asking so I won't be so ignorant when navigating the "It's ok to bash Ohio about TWI, but Not anything else" river's headwaters where I've apparently lost my paddle. SFSailor

Aw man, somebody got offended. I guess it's only OK to bash Ohio if it's TWI related. Do not speak to me of ignorance. I know something about Ohio hickishness. I read the above article about putting people on a criminal watchlist based on a simple preponderance of evidence, vs beyond reasonable doubt. Ohio wishes to enact a Soviet style "Informer" system. The whole thing is worse than dumb. It's another tiny step in the wrong direction. (Ordering a guy to change his T-Shirt which had Arabic script on it before he was allowed on a plane in New York is another example) You on the other hand know nothing about me other than my smiling (read slightly humorous - not too serious) response above. Sounds a lot like ignorance to me. However I'd like to help you. I'm from Texas. Now you are less ignorant about a man you chose to attact directly. Texans have done a lot of stupid things, but thankfully they haven't started with the "All suspects are guilty. Period. Otherwise they wouldn't be suspects would they?" approach your state government is considering. Have a wonderful day. SFSailor

The Ohio hicks are amazing. They open their mouths and dumb comes out. My best friend is from Ohio and he talks much worse about them then I do. :) SFSailor

Dilana is dayam good. Her Mother Mother was a home run. I mean, come on. A girl with a flying V that can sing? The bolts in her face are a minus but kids love that sh1t. Tattoos? Look at the drummer again and talk to me about tattoos. :) The guy from Iceland is very good too. SFSailor

Rum, I suspect you know what I mean. The internet reaches a wider audience than books. Having visited several communist countries, I think I can say I know something about how it spreads. Commies tend to shove their material at you whether you want it or not. I doubt TWI ever had jackbooted thugs kicking in doors and making people "believe". Have a nice day. SFSailor

There is a difference. The internet, while not free, can expose you to ideas, news, opinions, truth, and bu11sh1t faster than any library on Earth. I think organizations (Such as Communist China) fear that very much. Search-able, indexable, and at your fingertips in most homes. That's much more than a room full of books. SFSailor

Hmm, very interesting. Maybe you know something about them I don't. I always like advice... SFSailor

So there I was, 3 miles from shoal water in gale force winds, when I did something abysmally stupid and nearly died... No wait, that's another story. Let me rephrase. So there I was in my car on I680 South cussing myself for being abysmally stuipid and getting involved again. I really hadn't intended to do it, but there was that old friend telling me how blessed I'd be. I wasn't in my heart to tell her my true feelings when she was so excited. It was amazed at how I started to remember all these little details of my TWI days as a boy/teenager, and the brief stint in 1987. Details that I wondered how I would be able to stomach now. Just the commitment in time and gas was going to be tremendous. Since I have a special kind of hole in the water that needs constant attention, I don't even have a girlfriend or much of a social life. Where am I going to find the time to go to fellowship twice a week and all the other stuff? (BTW: Still looking for a nice girlfriend. Must enjoy being with a guy who works a lot, and like if he is set in his ways. A strong desire to Sand & Varnish is a must. The ability to Steer and maneuver around shoal water is a major plus! ) Intersparsed with my pessimism is a silent hope that maybe it's laid back, friendly and I'll meet some cool people. My worse if wiser self is telling me that those wonderful memories I have from the 70's are seen though a kid's eyes. All the BS and complications were mostly invisible to that kid I was... I arrive. The fellowship consists of 4 people. A 5th can't make it for some reason. The guy who doesn't come is the actuall fellowship coordinator and this is the guest fellowship or something like that. The hosts have been FC's until recently. They moved a few blocks from the local FC. No need for 2 twigs in such a small place I guess. Oh and they don't call them twigs anymore I'm told. The hosts are wonderful, friendly, loving, et cetera. The dude has his hair parted down the side and looks like a refugee from the 70's. It was like a time-warp in a way. They had the little cassette player with the Way music playing. It pretty much sucks as most holy roller music on TV does. There is a reason why this stuff isn't on the radio. Another young man shows up. Mid twenties and cool enough. He's the official assistant FC. Yee ha. We get started. There is so few of us, I'm sweating they are going to call on me to speak in tongues. I'm a known PFAL grad. ....! I haven't thought of doing that for an audience in, uh, 18 years? A prayer opens. A song, that I've never heard or sang before. I didn't like it as it really didn't seem like a happy song, or well composed from a musical standpoint. Weird tempo changes that made no sense to me, but whatever. The nice lady who is married to Mr. 70's Refugee is running the show, complete with waving her hand around to "direct" the song. I remember being 7 years old and thinking how cool it would be to do the hand wavy thing because it donoted that you were "in charge" and everyone was supposed to follow your lead. Never occured to me what that meant... Now I'm watching her wave her hand around while we sing and I'm having a hard time not saying how stupid it is. My worse if wiser self is saying: "See the sublte messages of control?" Another prayer, then a SIT with interpretation by Mr. 70's Refugee. He opened his mouth and started mouthing the non-sensical sylables strung together with no real cadence or time. The repetition of the same sounds over and over a few times, then interpretation! "And know for a certainty my children, I am a powerful and loving God..." et cetera et cetera. I supressed an urge to giggle. It was the time-warp again. The same words that I'd heard 18 years and more ago. The same Old English phrasing that sounds real "Holy" but certainly isn't how God communicated to the the Apostles. I couldn't help but wonder why God doesn't speak to us in modern venacular. The next guy spoke in tongues and he was better at it. It actually sounded more like a language, but considering he probably spoke 1 or 2 other languages, I guess that makes sense. His interpretation was about the same. Yee's and Thoughs and werefores. Same generic messages of 2 decades ago. A word of Prophesy was next. Of course there was no prophesy of any kind contained therein. I didn't learn 1 single kernel of foreknowlege, but I got some more Old English. Thank GOD, they didn't ask me to do it. Someone was asked to pray for "Our Board of Trustees". ??? Thought I. Then a teaching. This one was about financial freedom. I can give you the scripture references if you are interested. Needless to say, the ending remarks were of the wonderous principle of "Abundant Sharing" as the core to financial freedom. I wondered if they taught that for my benefit or was it on the agenda before I ever turned up. A song, a prayer, and then 45 minutes of shooting the ...., more or less. I heard about various "cop-outs" who left TWI in it's time of need, but no names were mentioned. They were careful not to slam LCM real bad, in fact they seemed to be interested in how I'd word it. I was diplomatic and so were they. I got the impression he wasn't well liked by them but who knows. I left that place feeling ok, but the cussing angry Sailor was lurking around trying to get some airtime. But that is another story. <_< SFSailor

I was attending twig in South Texas that year and was about 16. I remember getting the word from our twig leader and I was bummed for a few minutes. I'd met VP when I was younger so it had a little emotional content. Of course, at that age I was for more concerned about my social life, girlfriend, et cetera. That fellowship was the last time I ever went to one where it was good. Limb and Branch coordinators may have existed, but they never turned up in our little town. I too didn't know why VP died until later. Never seemed like a big deal to me or my family. People get old, people die. It's one of those things we can't avoid. I never really saw his death as some kind of failure of spirit. But there it is. We were never very high in TWI. Later, we were in Corpus Christi and attending fellowship there. I got yelled at for wearing shorts and a t-shirt to a Sunday fellowship one time, and my step-father and mother ended up in some kind of fight with the Branch coordinator over something that I never troubled myself to learn the details of. We stopped going after that. I living in Northern New Mexico after that and the Way might as well not have existed, so from late 85 to 87 I missed it all. SFSailor

Cellphones are like any other tool. A little etiquette goes a long way. That said, I get aggrivated with people who talk on their phones like it's an old tin can with string to another one. I have a co-worker who we call "Bellicose" as his phone voice is loud enough to be heard on the entire floor. Another thing that chaffs is the folks who talk about their restaraunt experience being ruined cause they could hear the coversation on the phone at the next table. I suppose if you could hear the coversation between the 2 or 3 people sitting there that would be OK? Other than true "fine dining" places, you will hear the people at the next table and their kids talking, screaming et cetera. I find that as annoying or more than a cell phone conversation. Myself, I live in an oncall 24/7 world. My oncall is 7 days long and I can and will be called a lot. Sometimes I'm out eating when I get called. I keep it low and to myself, but I still tend to get resentful and angry glares from other people. That's bullsh1t. If you expect the perfect quiet dining experience, I figure you should have stayed home and not been out in public with OTHER PEOPLE AROUND. The arrogance of saying that you chose to to out and sit next to others, then blame them for intruding on YOUR privacy is pretty large. Nobody makes anyone go out and sit next to the unwashed cellphone toting masses. Obviously that does not apply to those who are screaming into the phone. SFSailor

It may be an internet thing too. I'm a member of a few other boards and let me tell you. Fine points get debated with "great energy". Hairs get split so much the local Association of Rabbits files a protest. I believe it's the anonymous nature of the internet put together with the lack of any visual, and audible cues to tell you when a person is very serious or joking or whatever. SFSailor

No, I didn't. My decision wasn't hard and fast like that. It was more like, on Wednesday night after a long work day, do I really want to make the drive? Deal with it? Sunday's were like, do I want to get up early and go? What do I really get out of it? More hints that I should start taking a class? More hints that I need to be involved with things? I don't have the kinda time for that. The more I thought about it, the less I wanted to go. Nice people. A few dudes I could imagine having beers with and talking about things other than God. No, no one contacted me, but a cell phone disaster and a new cell number would make that hard anyway. I do still get the group emails that get sent out. Nobody ever sent a personal email though. I think the off subject topics I discussed with them would have told them I'm not the guy they need to have around. When I tell more of the story, it will become clear I think. SFSailor

It was not the first meeting. I'd been to a few fellowships prior to that 1st branch meeting. And yes, I was setting up chairs. The laser like precision those rows of chairs needed to be in was stupifying. No fewer than 6 people inspected and re-inspected the chair rows and spent a lot of time having them re-adjusted. I did recall one other detail of that day. As I re-adjusted chairs, I was singing softly to myself an old rock song with the words "God made love crazy so we wouldn't feel alone." :P SFSailor

Fifty was the top end. Nice round number. If I was trying to make a very accurate count, I'd say it maxed out in the mid to high forties. To me it seemed small. Last time I was at a branch meeting (prior to this one) in 1987 it was several hundred people. SFSailor

The "Every Once in a While Great Internet Search" finally yielded a result. An old friend of the family who we knew and fellowshipped with in the 80's. It didn't take long for this person to tell me how excited they were about the new class as re-done to incorperate material from the old PFAL. "I know some people in your area..." our friend said. "Why didn't I see that coming?" thought I? But on the other hand, I'd never encountered the harsher things talked about here or on other Post-TWI sites. My last brush with TWI in 1987 was one moment of greatness and a lot of bad vibes otherwise. Who knows? Maybe things have changed. The phone rang. I was dealing with off work time work issues. I was in no mood for the phone to ring, but I tried to be cool. It was a Reverand, branch coordinator. The call waiting went off while talking to the Rev. I took the call. It was the HFC. ??? Thought I. The Rev talked strangely to me. I couldn't put my finger on it, but the conversation didn't flow like I would have expected. The Rev wasn't very good at this perhaps? Speaking to a total stranger didn't seem to be the Rev's strong point. After I'm done getting fellowship time and place info and have hung up, the phone rings again not 5 minutes later. Yet a third person from TWI calling. "Holy sh1t" Thought I. Ok, that's the introduction and the full story should be saved for something other than my first post here. I remember one thing that really got me though. It was a branch meeting and I'd managed to get volunteered to be one of those who are "Blessed to help with the setup / cleanup". I'd been introduced to a woman, who in another time and place would have been my dream girl. That she hadn't been born when I had taken the PFAL class as a teenager for the first time, bothered me somewhat. She was running the setup. How she had that doubious honor was a mystery to me. Like a shaved tail, fresh from the academy Navy Ensign giving orders to the Goat Locker on the ship of your choice, but whatever. I've taken "orders" from less pleasant people. Then I met her husband. He looked 15 to me. I felt like I'd taken a jab to the ribs. The Reverand showed up and was introduced and received like a celebrity. I was trying to remember if it was like that in the 70's. Too long ago and I was too young to really remember I guess, but it seemed like more fanfare that I was used to. People lined up for the potluck after. The table was up against a wall and 50 people were in line to eat. It was a total Charlie Fox. The fix was obvious but I'm really just a guest here. Believe me, the "You're a Newb" feeling was in the air, so I wasn't going to be ungracious and start moving things around. I figured since Miss Dream Girl was in charge of arrangments, I'd tell her that pulling the table out 3 or 4 feet from the wall would allow people to go down both sides and get food. It would take 15 seconds, and all would be satisfied. "That sounds like a good idea. I'll just go check with (insert Rev's name here) and see if it's ok." She said brightly. "WTF WTF WTF?" Thought I. Did it show on my face? She seemed to wait for me to awknowledge her before she turned away to do as she had said. I forced an easy smile to my face, (Military training at it's finest) and said "sure". She went off and got clearance to do this, we did it, and the line flowed faster. I bailed as fast as I could without being obvious after that. It rubbed me so wrong that I can't fully explain it. I later heard before pulling the final rip-cord on the whole brush with TWI, that Miss Dream Girl and her husband had departed for HQ to begin their first year of Corps. My first instinctive thought was "I sure wish she wasn't wasting her life like that," and I knew it was time to walk away. I'd never fit in with them, no matter how nice some of them were. It just wouldn't work. Nice to meet you all here at Greasespot. SFSailor