Linda Z

Still praying with you here. I know you can choose the right path.

I believe I was told that older single folks would be relegated to the Family Corps. At the time...some of the physical standards were reduced for family corps.

That could have been at some point, Krys, but when I was in the Family Corps, people my parents' age (in their 60s at the time) did the same program the rest of us did, including hitching to LEAD and doing the rock climbing/hiking there.

VPW referred to the elderly members of the FC as the "Sunset Corps." I'll never forget Clarence Glatfe**er, who must have been 80 by the time he was in residence with us, doing yoga at 6:00 a.m. in the chapel at RC. The "lion" pose with Clarence's lack of teeth was particularly memorable. He was a real trouper.

Twinky, I'm sure you meant no offense, but re: your comment, "not even regular Corps":

We in the Family Corps took the same classes, went to the same interminable meetings, did "bless patrol, worked our 4-hour-a-day jobs, did "skullery duty," strung stupid chairs,and took care of our kids on top of everything else.

I'm sure, however, Rosalie never did "clean the moat" duty and never helped dig ditches or pull weeds or slaughter chickens like the rest of us in the FC.

Nobody had a girl named Rembert. Rembert Rivenbark is a man.

Not to pick nits, but if she were 76 now, she would have graduated from high school at age 21.

Are you sure this wasn't just her rumored age, Old Skool? I doubt she announced her actual age in the dining room.

Rosie is probably closer to 75 or older.

She graduated in '57, so she'd be more like 72 or 73.

Fox is her maiden name. Here's a link to her photo in the New Bern HS yearbook, class of 1957:

http://www.e-yearbook.com/yearbooks/New_Bern_High_School_Bruin_Yearbook/1957/Page_96.html

If you use a magnifying glass on the page (unless you want to pay to be a member of the Web site and see it full-size), you can see both her name and her photo, 5th row down, 2nd person from left.

There's a Rembert R. Rivenbark, Jr. with wife Rosalie in the 1958 New Bern city directory. If that's the same Rosalie (and it makes sense that it is), she must have married him right out of high school.

I also found her listed as "Rosalie Fox Shumate" in the 1963 East Carolina College's (not University) "The Buccaneer" yearbook, but w/ no photo.

There's also a record of a divorce between James M. Shumate, Jr. and Rosalie Shumate on Dec. 30, 1970, in Craven County, NC.

What's interesting is her use of the name "Rivenbark." It doesn't surprise me, though. It looks like Rembert Rivenbark was from a fairly prominent New Bern family. Maybe that name gave her more prestige than Shumate.

Edited to add: I just looked at Chockfull's post again. Now that marriage license makes sense. When she married Shumate in 1960, her legal name would have been Rivenbark from her previous marriage. Busy girl!

Heh heh, hugs back atcha, my friend.

There seems to be a correlation between too much makeup, phony blonde hair, and televangelists' scandals. Good for the granddaughter for having the guts to expose this one.

Off topic - don't spend a lot of time here or on the computer anymore - life intervened, but I couldn't help notice that johniam seems to have had an epiphany of sorts about TWI. Is that correct?

Johniam has been expressing criticisms of twi in these forums for a long time. Usually people here seem to want to focus on his more twi-favorable views, though, and take him to task for those. It's as if his criticisms are invisible.

WordWolf said:

One person who researched the twi history got ahold of some rather hard-to-get documents. The reason vpw was FORCED TO RESIGN involved (no surprise!) some rather inappropriate behavior concerning a church secretary.

I've always read here that people heard that this was the reason for his being forced to resign. This is the first time I've read about there being supporting documents.

If the person who dug up those documents would post them here, it certainly would/should go a long way toward knocking VPW off the pedestal that some people still have him on.

Cold, hard facts are hard to argue with.

Do you have a copy of the documents, WW? Can you post them? If not, can you get the person who found them to post them?

Kit, I'm so sorry you've lost Fred for now, but I'm thankful his pain and suffering are over. This life is short, but thank God it's not all there is. Love and prayers are going to you and your family.

Praying here, with love in my heart for you both.

Penworks wrote:

3) As for GMIR, a lot of nice information was offered in those articles but they all had to comply with the basic premise of inerrancy which skewed their findings. I knew some reserachers who would not submit articles to GMIR because of the heavy editing done by the in-house Team and Way Publications for the material to "comply" with existing teachings.

Just to clarify this point...having worked in Way Publications, I can say we didn't change the intent of what was written; it was the job of the Research Dept. to make sure what was written lined up with "the Word" (in reality, with anything previously written by VPW). Our job in Way Pub was to correct grammar, syntax, punctuation, etc. Any questions about the actual content, or any editing that potentially could change the content, had to be answered/approved by the Research Dept.

In other words, Way Pub was responsible for style, but Research was responsible for substance.

VPW's funeral...I never heard anything about that. What did happen there, anyway? I thought it was a cremation with the ashes in or under the fountain?

I was on staff at the time and was there. I don't remember all the details but I do remember that it was simple. Several clergy carried the casket (plain wood as I recall, made by staff Wayfers but I forget who, specifically) across the "Asphalt Terrace" and down the driveway to the front lawn of the Wierwille home, where VPW was to be buried. Some people said a few words. I don't recall it being very long or full of the usual hoopla of Way events.

I was in my second year of residence in 80-81, and it was the 5th Corps that came "back in residence" with us at Rome City. I'm positive that's correct, because I became close friends with several of them.

Are you sure the 4th Corps didn't come back for "retraining" in 79-80, skyrider?

I rarely venture into "Doctrinal" because I don't relish arguing doctrine. However, I have a simple response to the (IMO) mistaken premise of "Ten Reasons Why Most Believers Don't Seriously Question Their Faith."

For me, and I'd bet for many people, that premise is absolutely false. Although I was raised in the Christian church and believed wholeheartedly in God, Jesus, and the Bible, as a child, I came to "seriously question" my faith when I reached my teen years. I checked out different churches, different religions, and settled for a time on no religion, no faith, no beliefs based on anything I couldn't see, touch, smell, hear, taste.

Then one day in the late sixties I had a life-changing experience, thanks to a hippie Christian neighbor who was walking with God. I silently had prayed one of those desperate "If you really exist, God, I need help!" prayers and within a few minutes, this hippie Christian person knocked on my door and said, "God sent me because He says you need help."

Question? Oh heck yeah. I questioned. I searched. I demanded proof. I doubted. I denied the very existence of God.

I'll forever be grateful for God's mercy and grace to me, a rebellious, doubting little brat of a sinner, at the height of my refusal to believe in Him. So to those who yammer on and on about how faith is for the weak of mind and the easily fooled brainwashed among us (and I'm not saying that's you, Roy), I say :P and

Will do!

Praying for you and your boy!

Rottie, I know how much you loved Nico, and I'm so sorry. {{big hugs}}

I wish dogs could be "programmed" to live the same length of time as their human companions, but I guess we just have to take comfort in knowing that we gave them tons of love while they were with us. I sure hope to be reunited with my canine family members someday, too.

Rest in peace, sweet Nico.

Cower in fear of God? No, I reverence God and am in awe of Him. When I do wrong, I feel

bad about displeasing Him and hope to do better. But I don't expect him over my

shoulder, the Almighty Smiter preparing to Smite me for it. I'll smite myself with the

consequences I worked hard to earn.

Well said, WW. I'm well aware that God could squash me like a bug for any of my lapses into less than perfect behavior. I am unspeakably grateful for his mercy and grace and for the sacrifice He made for all mankind. Since I am human and will undoubtedly screw up again, I'm also thankful for chances to improve my behavior.

I agree, Twinky. I am in awe of God. I love God. I have reverence for God. I worship God. Although I recognize His power and authority, I don't fear Him in the sense of being terrified of Him.

What about Romans 2:4 (the goodness [often translated "kindness"] of God leadeth thee to repentance)?

I don't need to be afraid of God to be obedient to Him, as best I understand His will.

I won't argue doctrine; just putting in my two cents.

From Opera Buff, in the "Sexual predators in TWI" thread:

Someday, maybe TWI will wake up and realize the criticisms being leveled against them are God's own truth.

Nope. She will run TWI from the side of a bed in a nursing home if need be. Drool cup and all.

Make that a Belleek porcelain drool cup, to match the teacup she always used at her desk. Nothing but the best!

I'm so sorry about Jasper. {{{Human w/o Bean}}}