Linda Z

Kinder, gentler = sneakier, IMO.

The Ghost of Christmas Past: Poster boy for extreme dieting

Praying for you and for your surgical team, OE. My dad had a quadruple bypass about 20 years ago and is still kicking at age 91. Cardiologists do wonderful things these days, and with God's help, I'm sure you'll be amazed at how much better you feel after you recuperate from the surgery!

What timing. Yesterday I received press releases from two different makers of e-cigs. One of them, from a U.S. company, mentioned that the first e-cigs came from China, but that they (the U.S. company) have strict controls on their ingredients, partly because the people who founded the company use their own product. That made me go hmmmm. Are the Chinese manufacturers of e-cigs as careful as this American company claims to be?

As far as the ingredients go, propylene glycol is used in all sorts of things we ingest, so I'm not too worried about that ingredient. I was just wondering what other "goodies" might be stuck in there unbeknownst to unsuspecting vapers. I especially don't know how much the Chinese gov't regulates the ingredients in these gadgets.

Given China's reputation (or at least my perception of its reputation) for not caring much about human rights (and therefore, it would logically follow, not caring much about humans), if I ever take this leap, I'd be more inclined to try one of these e-cig thingies that's American-made, rather than one coming from China.

I appreciate all the info Socks and Dan and others have contributed to this thread. I may become one of you yet!

Congratulations, Twinky! I know how long you've been looking, and I give you lots of credit for hanging in there!

Who knows, maybe this job will lead to something even better!

Thanks, Krys, and the same to you.

It's my fave holiday because it's the least commercialized. Thanksgiving means family and friends and thankfulness. How could we go wrong? :)

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

I came across this today and I thought you'd like to read it!

http://healthconsumernews.com/healthysmoke/

The key word in this article is at the top of the page: "Advertorial." That's publishing-speak for an advertisement that is written to appear to be a regular, unbiased article. Whenever you see that word, you have to remember what you're reading is simply an ad all spiffed up in a nice dress.

I haven't decided what I think yet. One medical journal article I read about a year ago said the chemicals used in e-cigarettes are as bad as what's in the real thing, so I'm still a bit wary. It's tempting though.

No doubt the tobacco companies hate these things--unless, of course, some of them own the companies that make the e-cigs. It would make sense. The number of smokers is declining. Why not branch out and give your customer base an alternative to make up for the lost revenue? Now, wouldn't that be a real kick in the pants?

Great teaching, Bow!

When I took a look at the TWI website I couldn't find a single reference to VPW.

Just like 1984 he is now an "unperson" so I assume they consider his "doctorate" as immaterial.

Hey, Trefor! Nice to "see" you. It's been a while.

I suspect they don't trot out VPW's name for the general public, but I have a hunch he's quoted/adulated extensively "within the ranks."

It is a beautiful place. Too bad none of us will ever be allowed to step foot there again, even though our "donations" helped to build it.

When I clicked on the link, several other Way-related YouTube videos came up in the list on the right (including the infamous dance number spoofed on The Soup). I thought twi got that taken down. Perhaps they don't have enough clout.

There are other Way Prod song and "dance" videos posted there now, too. It looks like the choreography is done by a 1950s space movie robot. And there must have been a big sale on navy blue polyester for the Singing Ladies' wardrobes. Sad, just sad.

Although I disagree with ClayJay's politics most of the time, I have to stick up for him here. The meaning in his post in this thread was perfectly clear to me. He was pointing out twi's hypocrisy, and I thought it was an astute observation.

That's great news, Abi!!

I never saw this until today, and I'm so sorry to hear about her passing.

I have many fond memories of Frank--piloting Ambassador 1 and taking photos of staff. He was always friendly and helpful and kind, and I was very fond of him.

I learned that Frank had become Frances when I received his gourmet shop's catalog several years ago with her photo in it. I was pretty surprised, but I thought, "Good for her, for breaking out of the twi mold and following her heart!"

Thank God all the barriers that can make this life so difficult at times will fall when the Lord returns.

I know this has been stated elsewhere, but to reiterate, the scheduling wackiness came from Rosalie. She is disgusting enough to want to micromanage others lives at that level. Very sick woman. The last few years of Craig's presidency I understand he was basically held hostage by Donna and Rosalie anyway. I was told that they used his affairs against him and let him mouthpiece their policies. I.e. - no debt, scheduling, itineraries, etc.

(Sorry WayGB, was I supposed to keep that confidential? )

Yeah, that policy has Rosalie's name written all over it. When I worked in Way Pub, she tried to make us sign out to go to the bathroom. That didn't last long, once Don W heard about it.

I'm so glad I planned twi out of my life before they tried to plan my life for me.

Good Lord in heaven, what an intrusion, what an outrage. Many of the wrongs committed by twi leadership, while I don't condone them, I can at least understand the origins of. The more run-of-the-mill sins arose from human failings, like lust and greed--characteristics we're all familiar with. But this? Who the hell do these people think they are, gods on a stick?

Where in the Bible does it say anything about "planning the adversary out of your life"? Oh wait, I forgot. Rosalie Rivenbark told me I didn't need to read the Bible because I had to read Way Pub materials in my daily work. Silly me.

Why would I want to read the Bible for myself, anyway? Oh, I know! So I wouldn't fall for ridiculous BS like "checking in with my 'leadership'" whenever I needed to go buy a loaf of bread.

How they've kept anyone in that organization after pulling stunts like that is beyond my comprehension.

I have a soft spot in my heart for miners because my great-grandfather was one in Illinois, my great-great-grandfather was one in the north of England (and maybe his father before him), some other ancestors, and some cousins. It's not an easy life, for sure.

I watched the first few rescues, then some the next morning, and the last few. I had to wonder how the last rescuer felt, down deep in that mine by himself, waiting to go up to the surface. I was more nervous for him than for the rest!

I hope this incident raises the bar for mine safety around the world. It's never going to be perfect because it's inherently dangerous, but clearly chances are taken that never should be.

Wasn't Boob and Dootie Moneyhands down there in those years?

Bob and Dottie were there much later, like the early 1990s, weren't they? In the 50s they were toddlers, and in the 60s they weren't yet with twi, to my knowledge, unless it was the very late 60s.

I received this from the FDA this morning, and since there are so many pet lovers here, thought I should share it. Please click on the link and view the brief video about buying your pet's medications online.

http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm227350.htm

Great points, Sunesis. I've thought a lot about this myself, and was thinking about it while still in and growing dissatisfied.

When I was involved in the Jesus movement in Southern California in the late 60s, it was spreading organically. The home fellowship I got involved in wasn't part of any hierarchy, and in fact wasn't associated with any other home fellowships. People fellowshipped together because they wanted to, not because they were assigned to go somewhere. People witnessed because they were seeing signs, miracles, and wonders, not because there was a structured "witnessing night." The growth happened naturally.

It seemed that way when I first got into twi in '72, too. The "Way tree" was in place by then, but we didn't initially feel the strong arm of HQ. PFAL classes at that time had waiting lists--a stark contrast to what I hear about twi today....tiny classes and few of them running.

I had to wait for a class myself because the one that was about to run when I got interested already filled the room they'd rented for it. Classes were running back to back, and in mine there were at least 20 new students.

Ironically, the fellowship I'd been in in Calif. fell apart, too. They had a lot of enthusiasm but not much knowledge of the Bible, really. So I was ripe for the picking when I heard that verse in PFAL, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge." I thought, "Aha, that's what happened to our group! Won't it be great to have knowledge!"

But then there's that verse about "knowledge puffeth up" (in contrast to love, which edifies).

Enthusiasm and knowledge are both good, but they have to be in balance. Enthusiasm without at least a basic knowledge of the Bible can cause groups to disintegrate or get usurped, and knowledge without love can cause even a relatively large group to implode on itself, as we've all seen.

If those early Jesus movement groups had had more knowledge of the Bible, they might not have been such easy prey for those who would come along and take over. They might have been wise as serpents while staying innocent as doves. And if groups like twi (and many like it) had not been so hell-bent on accumulating knowledge (and money, power, and acclaim) and had been more about love, compassion, and kindness, and letting people live their own lives, perhaps things would have gone differently.

What I can't relate to is the weak definition of "forgiveness" that will enable TWI's abuse to continue, to deceive a whole new generation of kids like my kids. I don't want my kids to experience the abuse that I have. So I will use my voice to warn people of it. That's all I am - one Christian. That's all I have - one voice. You can use yours how you choose. You can use yours to judge me. That I'll give to the Father.

Chockfull, I don't think forgiveness and speaking up are mutually exlusive. I can forgive someone and still warn others about that person's patterns of behavior...make that misbehavior. I don't think forgiveness is a weak thing at all. It takes a conscious decision and some mental/emotional effort.

Please don't misunderstand. I'm a big fan of accountability. I'm just not the one keeping track of everyone's accounts. Where grace and mercy will be given, and where they won't, is up to God. He's the one who knows all our hearts.

Re: the original question:

RFR apologized to me once, but it was an empty apology. She apologized for "hurting my feelin's" when, in fact, my feelings weren't hurt. I was angry because she lied to me and tried to manipulate me, so I called her out on it. She never owned up to the actual wrongs. So yes, she apologized, but her apology was laughable.

Nevertheless, I've forgiven her (a) because I believe it's required of me as a Christian and (b) because not to do so would give her too much importance in my life. I'm not going to carry the burden of bitterness around on my back just because I never got a real apology from her. Life's too short for me to sit around worrying about whether someone else does the right thing. I have enough to do to keep my own ducks in a row.

Socksness, that's the most clear, succinct argument for forgiveness I've seen posted in these forums in all the years I've been around here.

For those who no longer consider the words of Jesus valid or applicable to their lives, I guess they "pays their money and they takes their chances," but for those who still profess to be Christians, I don't see any way around it. The Man says forgive. Period. No, "except when..." or "unless you don't want to" clauses are stuck in there. If anyone ever had the right not to forgive, he certainly did, so when he speaks on this subject, I think it behooves us to take heed.

And you're so right. Each of us has to own up to our own shortcomings, both in this life and the next. The final justice is in God's hands. My forgiving someone doesn't mean that person is off the hook with Him, and He knows things (oh, so many things!) that I don't have a clue about, so I figure He's the best judge.

Is El*(na Wh*()ts*de still a big fan?

That would seem to imply that she was at one time. I don't think that was the case.

I don't want to speak for someone who's not here to speak for herself, but to my knowledge, she was/is neither a fan nor a follower of Geer. I think any positive opinion she might have once had of him changed after a visit to Gartmore in the late 1980s.

I can't believe Su* M buys into his crap; I thought she had a better head on her shoulders. Actually, I can't believe anyone buys into it.

I don't know about now, but I think shortly after the POP debacle and for some time thereafter, most of the former Ohio leadership were associated with Geer.

My heartfelt sympathy for your loss. You are so right. It sucks.

One of my vets told me he just doesn't think it's fair that dogs don't live 60 or 70 years, like we do.

WG

I agree with your vet. I'd take the company of one sweet, innocent, devoted pooch over any mean, selfish human I know, that's for sure.

i'm so sorry my dear friend

my buddy is starting to fail

i love you

Thanks, my friend. Hugs to your buddy.