potato

Bol, do you have a problem with the concept of a self not defined by twi? one that people had to hide/suppress/deny in order to survive inside the walls of Zion?

amen, waysider. if God really is love, then he heaves a sigh of relief for everyone who is freed from that horrible life.

if I'm not mistaken, this is a webex conference. the feature poor webex packages are cheap, but doing something like this takes the higher level packages. I'm not going to begrudge a professional therapy center a nominal fee to do something like this. why is it that people expect things to be free if it has to do with twi? isn't that twi thinking to expect people to donate their long-suits or professional training? a therapy center has support staff that need to be paid, too... and the real world doesn't expect them to live on a need basis.

yes, I was afraid... when I stopped tithing, and when I severed ties. I was less afraid of my own death, and much more afraid for my kids. intellectually, I knew that the fear wasn't reasonable... but I'd been conditioned for so long, the emotional terror was quite real.

much better! thanks dmiller!

https://knappwebinars.webex.com/mw0306l/myw...l=knappwebinars this one should work. whew, it's really long...

well well... an interesting point you bring up, Bol. "believers" were taught to use their unbelieving parents to support them through corps training, then to carry mortgages for them because while it's not ok for a "believer" to have debt, it's ok to have someone else take on a debt to benefit you. so now that the parents are passing away from old age, the believers will have to start tapping their only other resource, their children, so they can remain holy and unblemished in doing the lord's work by giving to that stupid organization what they should be saving for their own later days. what a horrible burden to inflict on your kids when you have a choice not to.

don't be sorry, let loose as much as you like, just be aware that twi monitors what we write. I'm pretty much in your shoes. not many outside can relate to what our lives were like, and it takes awhile before it feels ok to bring it up, as if it were a simple fact instead of a looming nightmare. I've heard it's really difficult for people who've been incarcerated a long time to adjust to life outside of prison. I think for a lot of us, it's the same type of adjustment. I still feel really disconnected from people. it's really hard to trust them, or take anyone at face value. it gets better a little at a time.

welcome to GS, brainfixed. excellent first post. twi was the best place for abusers to hang out, and twi encouraged, even required abusive behavior from people who weren't already screwed up. the mental health professionals I've spoken with all agree that twi culture is extremely abusive.

congrats to everyone on your freedom! that thing from your FC is stunning, simply stunning. my head instantly made it into a cartoon.

yes we were, Jeff.

good for them!

and might I add, if your friends are truly friends, they'll still be your friends after you leave.

that was my experience. when I did leave, I was terrified. 2.5 years later, though, I understand that the fear was not founded in any kind of reality. it was waybrain. but it took 6 months to a year and a bunch of therapy before the terror started to subside.

thank you to the anonymous writer for taking the time to put that together. it sounds like the same twi I left in 2006, only more mummified.

I'm sure that was true at least part of the time. it gave people prone to feelings of grandeur a way to really feel righteous. and the not wanting to deal with their own problems, spot on. twi encouraged people to avoid secular therapists because secular therapists couldn't really help them, not having "the word". everyone was so damned righteous about their perfection in the lord. the corps who told people how to live, what to change to overcome personal issues: they gave outright wrong advice. they were not and still are not qualified to advise anyone on any personal subject, period. toward the end, I started seeing a therapist in secret. not even my ex knew about it. that was the only way I was going to be able to get help.

ah, them! context is everything. I was just talking about them somewhere else, as a matter of fact. they are asleep. drones. I suppose some of them are so damaged by being raised inside they will never recover. they will abuse because they were taught to be that way. I don't know that I can say they're all abusers, though. you'd know better than I.

some were abusers well before 18, and some who've left still are abusers, so what? and sure, as far as we went along with the witchhunts and unreasonable expectations, as far as we carried out orders from above, we unfortunately were party to the abuse. it's called abuse by proxy, in case anyone is interested. I personally was used to browbeat people into doing "the word", after being browbeaten myself. was I a victim at the time? yes. did I victimize others? I tried, thinking I was saving their wayward souls. thank god most of them didn't listen to me. one girl I know went through a lot of emotional abuse of which I'm afraid I was minimally involved, and if I ever see her I will apologize for it. she put up with a lot at the hands of the branch coordinator who was a snake, because she wanted to be right with god. the rest of my guilt is composed of sticking my nose in other peoples' business by order of the limb coordinator or obeying the M&A's. does that make me an abuser, right here, right now?

that makes sense. man, YouTube must have to pull thousands of videos every day.

I thought satire was protected under fair use? what infringement did Fox claim, I wonder?

I wasn't giving them money when I took the new christian family whatever class.

"offed himself" - I believe that is a reference to suicide.

the Mar07 concert link was sent around Twitter A LOT, like a joke link.

thank you for your post, THW. I know people who survived the 90's and lcm's fall from grace and who are disillusioned with leaders but who will not leave. some labor under the misapprehension that twi has special revelation, that vpw was an apostle. some believe they have no where else to go. some will not leave their friends. I think some also believe they should stay just because they invested so much and want to keep an eye on their investment. I was disillusioned, completely, when lcm sent out the tape that he'd had "consensual sex" with another man's wife. from that moment on, I waited for real change and only found more corruption as I watched people excuse sin after sin. it still took me until 2006 to be able to leave, because of the hold leaders had on my life. leaving twi, in spite of how I'd come to loathe it, was more terrifying than kicking my ex out after 15 years of marriage and I think it was this website, as well as some innies who talked openly about the corruption and lies of leadership, that made it possible for me to find the strength to leave because left on my own I probably would not have been brave enough.

you're entitled to your opinion.