Estimated Prophet

Pond, Thanks for sharing all that. It sounds like you're coming rom that place where Deep cries unto Deep. I can also see that you are more than just a little familiar with the goings on at CES. I agree that God is more concerned with Why we do what we do than with What we are doing. And That Love for God and Love for people is essential. And as you said, God's Love and Grace is not limited to just those with "right knowledge", and I have found the Body of Christ to be a huge and wonderful place. I just pray that the S&T Board of Directors gets it all back into the sweet center of God's Love and will Speak the Truth in Love more wonderfully than ever.

Hammer, Someday , when we have the time (?) I'd love to hear all about your journey. Thanks for all of your posts. I'm appreciating your heart the more I read them. and after pondering all these posts, I think it boils dowm to recognizing "Jesus is the Lord" and His way is best. Most of the problems I've had are a result of obeying so called men of god , or so called prophets, rather than Jesus Christ. and Jesus never imposes his will upon us the way some of those so called people do. He is content to let us make our own choices. or so it seems to me today

Maybe they can squeeze into Jerry Jones's new stadium. I know they wilt in July and Augyst, but that's no excuse. The Florida Marlins have won two championships in a similar climate.

I still say it's a stupid rule !! :) but I agree that it is not going away any time soon! Thanks for the feedback. BTW The new manager of the Texas Rangers, Ron Wahsington, has got everyone excited about baseball. I'm very hopeful that this will be their year!!

( Welcome Kerke !) T Bone, I think it is very wise to be skeptical . That does not mean there is not genuine prophecy inspired by holy spirit happening. There is. Unforumately there is false prophecy that stems from an over active imagination, and some from an unholy spirit. But there ain't nothing better than climbing up on the Father's lap so he can whisper in your ear. That's what genuine prophecy is like for me. As for Gregg F's theory. Agabus the Prophet said the Jews would bind Paul. It turned out the Romans bound Paul. That's a bit of a mix-up, but the essence of the message was clear.

Pond, I agree that Jesus was not an outsider to the house of Israel. I don't see this as an "Us" and "Them" scenario either. I see this as a family situation where we are all generally open and honest and ugly sometimes. If I sound self righteous at times, its only because my old man can be so ugly and hurtful. He is really the one I wanted to dismiss from the discussion. and I am not involved with CES, so don't let my behavior exemplify what they are all about. If my retort s on the keyboard offended you, then you should see me in a face to face encounter of a frustrated kind !! Very hurtful. It's the stuff that gets me marked and avoided and sent off to hell. Jesus Christ is my only hope. ( I just got back from a time of cleansing with Him !!) I was disqualied from ministry long ago, and rightfully so. ( not by CES if that makes a difference ) and perhaps knowing what I've been forgiven for, is why I have no problem forgiving John Lynn and Mark Graeser. Peace

You're right WordWof. I'm sorry that I got out of line. Please forgive me everybody, especially you Sprawled Out. "the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God" I'm still working on putting that one into practice.

Take it to the Soap Opera S.O. I'm not going back and forth with you any more.

Dear S.O. Ok. Since you've made it clear that your comments are not in good fun... 1. I am not prejudiced. I think you would love to stone me, or throw me off a cliff, if you could really get me in your "clutches". (and just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean everyone isn't out to get me) Let me be Dead Serious. " there may come a day I will dance on your grave. If unable to dance then I'll crawl..." J Barlowe But you are right, I am at odds with the misfit power of the Grateful Dead I've chosen the Way of Life and Peace. I'm way beyond going back....sorry. If you're not impressed, then that's your choice. 2. here are Paul's words regarding his fellowship in the sufferings of Christ: " For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory:'' IICor 4:17 No complaints from him. or don't you believe Jesus when he said " for my yoke is easy and my burden is light" Matt 11:30 let it Shine? " if therefore the light that is in the be darkness, how great is that darkness? " Matt 6:23 and I am not a gal, so just forget about me having your baby. .... " and if that Jubilee don't come maybe I'll see you on the Run" R. Hunter

Allow me to split a hair and say prophecy is prophecy. the word "personal" has been added and it is not found in scripture. and "What You Speak" remains God's business. The bible never said only a "Gift Ministry" is able to prophecy specifics. "Joe Believer" is fully enabled and totally equiped to move in the power of holy spirit even if he never heard of an Advanced Class. A "certain disciple" named Ananais spoke a very precise Word to Saul of Tarsus in Acts 9. He was also being directed by "this same Jesus", not the Father. Very powerful Truth. Here's another one: Acts 13:2 " As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the holy ghost said, Separate me Barnabus and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them" and another, ( which is a clear example of where the prophecy didn't exactly happen as stated, but was a genuine prophecy none the less.) Acts 21:11 "...Thus saith the Holy Ghost. So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles" but we see in v 33 that it was the Romans who bound Paul and delivered him from the hands of the Jews. I recall Gregg Farriss (SP?) teaching how the message is holy when it leaves heaven, but sometimes it gets messed up before it leaves the prophets mouth... let him with eyes that see , and ears that hear, understand in his heart

All in Good Fun....Right??

Can anybody tell me the purpose of the "dropped third strike" rule? Being an old catcher, I think that one should be repealed. Why should the batter get a chance to run to first after striking out? just wondering

"...and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters..." Gen 1:2 Good Insight People. Good Heart. I'm very curious about what the view is like at Camp Vision these days. If they are willing to let the spirit move in them as you all are, then great things will be happening. regarding leadership... I like the word "Overseer" meaning one who watches out for others. Also "Servant" meaning one who supports another.

CaribouSam: Don't let these guys bother you. I appreciate what you're saying. Peace OakSpear: and you'd make a great DeadHead Someday I'd like to have a long talk with you

Drat ! and Double Drat !!! I find myself in the clutches of the deviously dancing Sprawled Out !!! Pinned by my own words !! oh the shame where is my super power just when I need it the most I must escape before I subcome to Anarchy !! ( my mother was afraid this would happen )

Groovy " I ain't often right but I've never been wrong, it seldom works out the way it does in a song Once in a while you can get shown the Light in the strangest of places if you look at it right" Robert Hunter

No Fooling Hammer, Karen Ann prophecied once over me, and the Word prepared me for what was to come. It was "Right On" I Cor 14 and IJohn 4:1 are two places in particular that advise caution when considering prophecy. I still hold to the notion that God will reveal to you first His will, and genuine prophecy thus reminds you of what He's been saying all along, and the prophetic Word resonates with the revealed Word of the holy spirit within. We are all learning good lessons. I mainly keep learning I'm not as smart as I used to think. So I hold on tighter and try to walk a little closer with my Lord.

I think if their qualifications were based solely on what is mostly being reported here, then I can understand how one would take extreme exception to their leadership. By "them" I am asuming you are referring to the S&T Board of Directors and their ordained clergy members. However... I hold John Schoenheit's integrity in the highest regard and can not think of a more qualified Christian to man the wheel. I've been a guest in his home and he in mine. He measures up to Timothy and Titus as well as anyone I know. I have had a good deal of time and experience with him with which to base my opinion. Honest I believe there is more good being accomplished by this minisrty that has been reported here. Dr. Juede's report was very susinct in addressing certain problems, but that does not refute the many genuine blessings that have been accomplished. And Prophecy is indeed very biblical. This is not a cult. This is not a Santa Clause fantasy. and honestly Pond, I don't know of any one who actually thinks God would love them less for withdrawing from S&T. No one I know thinks they are the only source of knowledge of the Truth. I'm not even on their mailing list, and haven't been directly involved in S&T for three years. Yet I still have a very healthy relationship with all my friends still involved. It's not a matter of being bamboozled, It's simply a matter of loving what our Almighty God Loves. and I take Extreme Exception to the abusive language and evil suspicions directed against good people. A good friend once taught... You don't get out of the muck and the mire by looking at the muck and the mire while pointing to the light. you get out of the muck and the mire by looking at the Light and pointing to the light. or as Wayne Dyer says If you change the way you look at things the things you look at will change. Peace

It's cool. and I am not a Prophet. My name was supposed to be a bit of a joke because I knew my first post was one of my high and mighty rants. But my opinions are strictly my own . The Estimated Prophet is a song by the Grateful Dead. It was inspired by a raving Jesus Freak , as well as the book of Ezechiel. It has also inspired me for nearly 30 years now as well. So the name suits me on a number of levels. My posts have sprung out of a deep level of my heart, so please excuse me for coming on strong. and with a name like Sunesis, I trust you understand

Right On Grace! God is doing Great Things in His People!!

Understood. Please forgive, Oakspear, If my words seemed harsh. I was just surprised by your statement. I stand by what I said, but with no ill will for you. Really. I will also add that from your posts I can see your rules, or standards, seem quite positive and constructive. you'd make a Great Christian !! Thanks for sharing, and God Bless You

I'm glad to hear they are making progress. I believe that once they've come through the fire then The Sprit and Truth Fellowship International will be a powerful vehicle for carrying the message and power of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. A place where He truely is Lord, where the people genuinely hold him as their Head. also It's good that they are listening to their followers, (and I also have received positve feedback from Mark and John L and Dan and John S. Believe me . None of them likes seeing anybody get hurt.) But I pray they are more intent on listening to the Master.

Jesus is not your Lord? Thanks for letting me know. Then you can play by your own rules if you like. He has everything to do with my life. I do my best to play by his rules.

Let's talk WW My attempt to quote you didn't work, so I have cut and pasted your comments . I will respond in kind in [[ double brackets]] >> I respectfully disagree. [You have a right to do so.] [[ Cool ]] Who made the rule that CES leadership should post their opinions here and engage in the dialogue? [With respect, brother, you're asking the wrong question. Here's a little background. Some people came out of twi, where open discussion was forbidden. Some of them-who formed ces/stfi- began with open discussions, and a public messageboard online. Then they shut down the public messageboard online. No more open discussion. [[ I was unaware of CES providing such a forum]] The question is "Why has open, public discussion become forbidden in ces/stfi like it was/is in twi?" [[ 'Forbidden ' is a strong word. I don't see any S7T people being forbidden from enetering this discussion]] They are free to run their OWN board and moderate their OWN discussions like they did BEFORE. The reason the discussions ended up HERE is the same reason twi discussions ended up here- by DEFAULT. They refused to do so, and there remained a perceived need for open discussion. (You may not perceive a need for open discussion. I perceive one, and consider it a necessary part of healthy organizations- if any organization can be considered 'healthy'.) [[Agreed I especially like being able to interrupt you here without being rude (?) or disturbing your train of thought as you express yourself]] So, no one said there is a RULE that ces/stfi need have open discussions ANYWHERE. However, their refusal to do so raises some interesting questions. This is no guarantee of wrongdoing or malfeasance, but these are things that make some people go "Hmmmm...." [[ Hmmmm.... ( which is sometimes the sound of the manifestation of a Word of Wisdom !) but I do think some people may need to be reminded that no rules have been broken at least to quell some of the animosity]] There is neither a rule that they must dialogue HERE even if nowhere else. However, they seem to have no difficulty playing with, and finessing the concept. JAL made a press release for posting here, wrote in it "this is not for posting online", insulted the people who post here, and had the nerve to pretend to be surprised that it ended up here. You may consider it "plausible deniability", but I call it "thinly-veiled hypocrisy." If the "thin veil" fooled you and convinced you he really didn't write it EXPECTING IT to end up here, that's on you. I suspect you possess more wit than that. [[ Careful ! My wife will gladly tell you I can be very gullible. but I do recogmize John was aware his words would be read on line and gave his permission for them to be posted here. but really Wolf, there are a lot of insults flying around here. Are we going to let them lead to more misunderstanding and resentment or to understanding and kinship? I know I was at first disturbed by this dialogue, and didn't want to participate. Now I've made some adjustments in attitude ( thanks to God working in His people) and its very Cool. But it is teaching me the art of walking circumspectly. and forgive me for not responding to your earlier posts, but your words are something of a mountain to climb and explore]] At the same time, the notice IN the internet press release that he wasn't going to communicate by internet is hypocrisy- going out by internet as intended. He communicates by internet in the fashion that suits him- by press release- and NOT in the manner that would encourage open communication- by messageboard dialogue. At the same time, he says he's not communicating by internet in any form. Those are 2 things people complain about.] [[ Valid points. all I can say is "Hmmmm...." ]] I don't believe that's comiing from our Lord Jesus. [i don't need revelation or a precise Bible verse to know when someone's blowing smoke up my sit-upon. Jesus warned against those who liked the chief seats. Paul warned against those who set themselves up as lords over God's heritage. Further, I'd go out on a limb and say that-if Jesus was walking around here now, he'd be using the internet as well. He dialogued with people openly all the time. On the other hand, squelching discussion, sitting on news, I for one don't believe THAT comes from our Lord Jesus, either. ] [[ I agree that our Lord Jesus does not go about squelching discussions. I have always believed that it is the Supressing of the Truth that leads to deception. With genuine freedom to express ourselves we can see the bigger picture, and what is right and true and good becomes very clear to see. And I will say as one who has listened to John Lynn for the past 15 years, he tries very hard not to lord it over people. I think he recognizes his passion causes that to happen at times, but I think he tries to not let that happen. But John is wired to be very assertive. That's how he functions. I don't always agree with him, nor he with me, but I love him for being genuine. You can call it hypocrisy if you want, but I won't. He just said his communication will be One on One. And I have no idea how he finds the time and energy to maintain communication with as many people as he does. I really don't think he has the time to give the Grease Spot the time and attention it demands. Half baked posts get crucified around here in short order I dare sayI]] I will even say that Christian Educational Services freed me from the yoke of having to live up to other people's expectations, and all those man-made rules and reg's. [That's wonderful. And I learned some good stuff in twi. Which did nothing to excuse them from ruining the lives of others. So, how many "success stories" does it take to excuse the lives ruined because some people were railroaded into Momentus, or someone leaned on them with "personal prophecy", public ridicule USING "personal prophecy", or both? [[ Those are strong words Wolf perhaps valid in some cases. It doesn't take ' stories success' to justify or excuse the harm that was done. It takes the Cross. and I know you know that. I think we all need to learn to distinguish between the will of God and the will of man and then find the wisdom and inner strength to swim against the current when need be.]] Please note that I consider this a trick question. I don't consider ANY number of personal anecdotes of "success stories" to excuse those who call themselves leaders from ruining lives of ANY of the people they ACCEPTED RESPONSIBILITY FOR. However, if you think differently, feel free to tell me how many lives can be exchanged for how many lives.] [[ As I said One life is all it took in exchange for the many. That is why the Cross is So Powerful ( which the Way never seemed to fully apprciate. ) but I do believe your indignation is righteous, and grieve with you for the harm that came to those you obviously love. and I know we will all be held accountable for every word and deed. The Lord has never tolerated False Prohets. There will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth at the judgement seat. and for those of you who have been burned, The Chief Shepherd, Jesus, is faithful to come to your side and bring healing and wholeness. It's a process that will not be completed until we put off this corruptible body and put on incorruption at His Return. But it's a process that always gives us hope. and even in the wounds you have suffered he will reveal his redeeming love that is poured out in your heart. and he will take that affliction and work it into an eternal weight of Glory.]] So if it bothers you that JL or MG or JS aren't here every day like some of us just let it go. [That's misrepresentative of our positions. Few, if any, expect any of them to be here regularly. I certainly don't.] [[fine]] Its very liberating. [Most of us who are counselling caution are quite liberated, thank you for the concern. We don't lose sleep or get hypertension over where any of them post or don't post, for that matter.] [[ very well, but I have a strong sense that many may be carried by their caution to a point where they are losing their peace. perhaps using their liberty to bite and devour I know I can't speak for anyone else, but I do know I have had to battle for peace and for the high ground. as I've read through this dialogue I don't think I am alone. and I don't regret my presence here. ]] and if you really want their point of view just call or write them. [Which is a LOT better than a vacuum of communication. However, it falls FAR short of OPEN COMMUNICATION- which was one of our main complaints from the beginning. And at least one person tried that-using their legal name-and got no response. Which means there's no guarantee that will work.] [[ nope no guarantees. But our Lord knows how to make each of us stand, so keep your eyes on Him, and trust Him to straighten out those who are weak in the Faith. ]] Peace [I'm all for peace. I can get behind that. I'm not that keen about "let's pretend there's no problems and we'll pretend that's peace". If that's something you mean, then I can't get behind it.] [[ I like you Mr. WordWolf. I don't mean to pretend there are no problems. I just want to focus on what's right and good. thanks for talking with me.]]

I hear you , Trust and Obey and I've learned the hard way that we need to try the spirits and see if they are of God. and that it's the sincere people that can really trick you and we all carry our own load of ^%$@#&^# and some how God still loves us and The Real You keeps shining through.