Estimated Prophet

Danny, and Jesus had a way of slipping away from their clutches when he chose to as well. a good rule of thumb: If your yoke is hard and your burden is heavy, then perhaps that's an indicator that you're not under the yoke of Jesus Christ I'd like to believe that it is the spirit of Christ moving me to post here, but I recall times where some of my rants have been moved by a spirit of indignation and wrath and I mistakenly thought it was holy spirit. So I won't guarantee any of what I say is a "thus saith the Lord" and I am indignant with some of the insinuations and exaggerations that have been made towards some of my friends in the Faith. and the Lord has revealed somestrongholds in my heart since I came here and dialogued. He's showing me some bitterness that needs to be squeezed out. That's part of why he has me coming back. my sincereity is no guarantee for Truth. but I pray the Lord gives us understanding in all things as we consider these things. and we only know in part, and prophecy in part; so we need to hear each other out to really see the bigger picture. ( It would be great for John Lynn or Mark G to be in the discussion, but they can't be all things to all people, Thank God that the spirit of Christ is actively present.) With all seriousness. It was not so much CES that freed me from the yoke of bondage as it was Jesus Christ working within them. and it was not so much Jesus Christ who freed me as it was our Almighty God and Father working within Christ. " to Him be all glory and honor in the Church and in Christ Jesus now and forever" Why the Father chooses to work in us people the way He does is a Mystery to me but I'm glad he does! and when people have let me down, the Savior picks me back up usually working in another saint.

I respectfully disagree. Who made the rule that CES leadership should post their opinions here and engage in the dialogue? I don't believe that's comiing from our Lord Jesus. I will even say that Christian Educational Services freed me from the yoke of having to live up to other people's expectations, and all those man-made rules and reg's. So if it bothers you that JL or MG or JS aren't here every day like some of us just let it go. Its very liberating. and if you really want their point of view just call or write them. Peace

Good Point. Regardless of which road we choose, we have an actively present Savior who is with us to the end and is able to subdue all things to his own will. I don't ever expect to subject myself to a Momentous style training, but I can't deny the Savior has worked in the process for many who have gone through it. I've also seen him work his work in the lives of those who don't go through the process. I just rejoice when I see him working.

This discussion has been very enlightening for me. Thanks everyone for allowing Christ to manifest himself in you. God Bless You All.

Well Ham, you're not the first person I ever mis-read. a local teacher I like says ' it's impossible to be arrogant without being ignorant. You can be ignorant without being arrogant, but you can not be arrogant without being ignorant" I have to believe these guys are learning some hard lessons. I know I am Peace

T-Bone, I dare say that are wise beyond your years. (... must be something inside...) Let me say again that it was ME and not John L throwing out the titles of Apostle and Teacher. John, as I recall over 15 years later (?!!) began CES by emphasizing those same points you made. Lot's of anti-heirarchy rhetoric. Lot's and Lot's of " What a Friend we have in Jesus" S&T never came close to emulating TWI's insistance on obeying leadership, in my humble opinion, and for the most part behaved as a para-church that genuinely allowed local fellowships to be self-governing. John, Mark, and John simply offered their support without wanting to control things. An inner circle did develope, as is the nature of organizations, and perhaps did relegate the Lordship of Christ. Sort of falling into the trap of "What I say is The Word of God is What I say is the Will of God" or "Obeying me is just like obeying God" I think this occured because they learned the hard way what happens when you give a stage to over-opinionated loose cannons like me. They became more cautious over who and what to endorse. Then perhaps they trusted too little in the active presence of the Lord Christ Jesus and his ability to ' make his servants stand.' ...perhaps... I don't know but I do know Him who does, and I pray we all get to know him and trust him more and more.

Mark, Pardon my melodrama, and forgove me for misjudjing anyone here. This discussion is taking me into some deep places and I am a bit over my head. I also never intended to say they are making a better contribution to the body than anyone else. I just think the people at S&T aren't as bad as this thread seems to suggest with some of the references to bad fruit and ravening wolves. I'm glad that you don't want to throw them under the bus. Right is Right and Wrong is Wrong. I never meant to say there is nothing wrong with S&T, and pray is gets straightened out. Your article on the Lordship of Jesus Christ is superb. Thanks for sharing it with us and for getting my day off to a good start.

"so.. if I don't accept the message of J.L.'s apostleship, and look at the man behind the curtain, I'm a gonner?" HI Ham, I think you missed my point. ( and I am not "one of their prophets" ) (( I am not a prophet nro attempting to prophecy here, this is simply my considered opinion )) The point is that we all have a choice: We can " Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamour and slander be put away from you, along with all malice " Eph 6:31 or not. It may sound funny to you, but your choice will either energize the holy spirit in you or not

" You will know them by their fruits" Matthew 7:16 T-Bone states: "…Jesus said you'll spot them by their predatory traits [being like ravenous wolves] and the fruits of their labor [the end result of their work]. For our Lord to leave such simple directions - it can't be too hard to miss. He indicated the type of tree is known by the type of fruit – He didn't say on a good tree you might find some bad fruit – like some of it is overripe or rotten. That is thinking about quality of fruit – but Jesus is speaking of genus – oranges from an orange tree – apples from an apple tree, figs from a fig tree, etc…So I'm not accusing anyone of being a false apostle or prophet. If they're not a ravenous wolf or some glory hound claiming that God sent them [like the false apostles of II Corinthians 11:3-15]" Considering this I find myself at the crux of the dilimna. Is S&T a good tree with some over ripe or rotten fruit? Or is it a bad tree with bad fruit? Is John Lynn a good tree, so to speak, or Mark G or any one of us? Are we rotten to the core? If one of those people have offended me, do I have the right to cast them off and throw them into the fire? Is this process really necessary? Is it right to disconnect from them? What do we do with people when they are disobedient to the Truth? ( which I have been many times ) I don't know, but I know Him who does. What would Jesus do? I believe that Jesus Christ saw this whole problem, and laid down his life, and died for them, that he might redeem them. I believe that John and Mark have believed in Christ, and have received his divine and incorruptable nature. As such they are able to produce good fruit. I am praying that instead of opting for divorce, that the Love of Christ will constrain them, and they will obey the truth, and be reconciled . and I believe this is just one more fiery trial of our Faith, in which our Lord Christ Jesus is working to purify unto himself a people who are zealous for good works. He has the Words of life So I'll be holding on to him all the way to Glory but what a long strange trip it's been !!

I love it! Lot's of heat lightning is flashing in my heart as I read. Three things. 1 God Bless You Billy. It's people like you that my heart grieves for and I totally understand and share the conflicted emotions. 2. T-Bone Thanks for the juicy serving of meat. 3. The whole apostleship of John Lynn is strictly my own thought. Please don't let anybody get mad at him for that. John has never claimed such a title. No one else I know has made that claim as far as I can recall. and I reserve my right to change my mind later about any and all of what I've said. ( see T-Bone's line about tyranny as my justification for that escape clause) (( or as my Catholic aunt likes to say... "Blessed are the flexible for they will not get bent out off shape" )) I imaging John would be uncomfortable with me calling him such, but I believe he functions as an apostle. I agree that Eph 4 indicates apostles are still needed in the church. I also think the bible lists more than Paul and the twelve , such as Barnabus, in the 1st century church Read 11Corinthians 11 ff and notice what a scandal the apostleship of Paul stirred up. His opponents in the church certainly had a solid basis to find him suspect . I don't know, I just know Him who does. and yes, the gift ministries are functioning here and the genuine ones I encounter (IMO) prefer not to have the title and genuinely give all praise and glory to God. May the Lord give us understanding in all things.

Mark: Good points. I trust we have all learned more about the spiritual battle since the Athletes of the Spirit drama. Mostly that the Man of God does not replace the Absent Christ. That was indeed an arrogant attitude. Jesus Christ is very present in our lives and he is indeed the one we need to look to for guidance and protection and all those things pertaining to life and godliness. He alone is The Master Apostle. Rejoicing in Him and that our names are written in heaven is very powerful. Ham, Your assessment of JL may be different from mine, and we may rub each other the wrong way, but I agree that there are wolves in sheeps clothing to beware of. Likewise False Apostles and False Prophets, and I'm not sure how to determine where an Apostle or Prophet crosses the line and becomes False. Just where should we draw the line God have Mercy on them. For what it's worth, my definition of an Apostle is much different from what I learned as a Roman Catholic, or later as a PFAL Grad. I don't see an Apostle as a 'super-human' so much any more, just someone with a calling to care for the Church. someone capable of being wrong at times. You are right on to reference Galations regarding these things in my opinion. Rascal, in my humble opinion... If we ripped out every tree that produced any bad fruit, how many trees would be left? I know what Jesus said, but believe his meaning was similar to the admonition of cutting off your right hand if it offends you. I don't think he wants us to carry out those orders so literally, but wants us to see the importance of walking rightly. I also see my Savior as the husbandman who interceeded for the corrupt tree; persuading the Master to let him dung the tree and redeem it back to a healthy state. This is how I believe my Lord Jesus is perceiving the leadership with S&T now. I believe he is actively working to open their eyes and help them to see what went wrong, and how to correct it. I believe in all of those people and their desire to allow the Lord to work. Eating the fish and spitting out the bones is not bogus. "Prove all things, hold fast to that which is good" says the same thing in my mind. In my opinion, If you think you're in a place or with people where there is no bad fruit at all, Then I think you'd better open your eyes. Or maybe I'm just cynical

Ham, Here's a Word for an Apostle who got out of line: " BUT WHEN CEPHAS CAME TO ANTIOCH, I OPPOSED HIM TO HIS FACE, BECAUSE HE STOOD CONDEMNED" Galations 2: 11

Thanks to all of you for your kind responses. It's great how sound communication brings understanding to misunderstandings. Mark, You have helped me see more clearly so Thank You. The "disconnect" word you wrote made me see a stronghold that has prevented me from fully engaging in fellowship for years in order to protect my heart from further wounding. That's a big deal for me, so Thanks. You may not realize that I disconnected from S&T two years ago because I was and still am aware of the problems which are being addressed at this site. Now I wonder if I had stayed connected if it would have helped. Have you thought of the possibility that great numbers of people have been bessed with the ministry of Spirit and Truth International and its desire and efforts in the Lord to see all men saved and come unto the knowledge of the Truth? I have simply tried to emphasize the many good and godly elements of John Lynn and S&T. That You might find my views lacking in wisdom, and a glorification of demons, doublemindedness etc... well that just doesn't fly with me, but I realize I know my heart better than you and can understand how you might have come that point of view. I mean, Bro, Did you really think I was claiming to be a prophet with my choice of a Grateful Dead song for a name? !! ( I really have to think you were using some poetic license with that remark) (( and that choice of names does indicate a lack of wisdom on my part )) This is not much unlike the reaction I have received from the S&T Leadership when I expressed a contrary point of view. Or which I've experienced from the Way. Or from John Lynn when I insisted that Dr. Weirwille was great Man of God. But isn't that what happens when anyone does dare to challenge the status quo? We are all well trained in magnifying the flaws and errors in one who dares challenge the popular position and how to cut the offender to pieces. I am not all that doubleminded Mark. I simply and single heartedly am striving to love what my Almighy God loves, and to approve of what He approves of. Yes I saw the bad fruit from the beginning, but I found it not hard to feed on the genuine good fruit which was much more abundant. I have never found an organization run by humans that wasn't plagued by bad fruit to one degree or another. We are all a work in progress. even Apostles And I am very glad for the good fruited nutrition I've gleaned from your posts and others here at The Grease Spot. I wish CES had listened to your concerns about prophesy. It would have spared them all this anguish they are suffering now. I share your views much more closely than you think. I believe you are intent on expressing the Lord's opinions. And you express them very well. And what kind of brother would you or I be if we didn't jump all over each other once in a while. Thats what brothers do. So I have no regrets. I'm just not as unaware of the problems as you might think. Though I can be stubborn and bent to be contrary. ( perhaps from the pathologically anti authoritarian influnece of the Grateful Dead) The S&T leadership has just made a very hard decision. But I believe it was the right one. They have demonstrated again that they will act in a righteous manner, just as they did when they replaced John Lynn as president. John Schoenheit will do a great job of bringing the ship back to an even keel. I am glad you are calling them and giving them support. So Hold Fast everybody and pray for God's will to be done. IThess. 5:20 is very clear. " DO NOT DESPISE PROPHETIC UTTERANCES BUT EXAMINE EVERYTHING CAREFULLY; HOLD FAST TO THAT WHICH IS GOOD" and Gal 5:9 "AND LET US NOT LOSE HEART IN DOING GOOD FOR IN DUE TIME WE SHALL REAP, IF WE DO NOT GROW WEARY"

Peace There-But- For Grace encouraged me to come back and learn what there is to be learned, and so I have. Please forgive me for disconnecting, I simply don't have the time to be involved in these discussions. Grace decided to reconnect with me by P.M.ing me, and I really appreciate her love. I have a a very good friend who warned me to stay away for my own good, and he was being wise. He knew it would hurt my heart. He was right. Even though I was prepared for the reponse I still lost a good nights sleep sorting through it all, and yes, I blame the wicked one for that. I think will skip this dance. I'm not going to go back and forth in doubtful disputations. I can see who is orchestrating the dance and I don't like it. That does not mean that I don't appreciate the genuine , godly elements of many posts. I just see the same passion for Christ that oversteps its' bounds sometimes, like has happened with the leadership of S&T, and misguidedly missed the mark. I understand. Will you forgive me if I have offended you in any way. I am not alone in claiming that I have been very blessed with the teachings and fellowship opportunities provided by S&T over the years. Why should that bother some of you? After reading twenty something pages of attacking the integrity of my brothers in Christ and friends in the Faith I was compelled to speak up for them. They are really not as bad as this thread is making them out to be. Perhaps thier sins and my sins seem to justify the need for open evil speaking, but that is a sin too. And for the record. Evil influences do not excuse any of us for the wrong choices we make. When I directed our attention to the spiritual realm it was to get to the root of the problem. Also, The name Estimated Prophet implies that I recognize my attempts to speak for Christ generally involves a degree of speculation. None of what I have written is what In would call "prophetic." I also recognize that my affinity for the Grateful Dead is not likely to make a good impression on any one, but it does express a side of me I think you need to see. That Rock and Roll band has generated a culture of people (Cult?) which is another world unto itself. It's impression on my soul cannot be denied regardless of all the Uncle Harry days I've celebrated. but I digress... Jesus Christ came to save sinners and reconcile us back to the Father. He is able to purify us to be zealous of good works. That is a process done in the goodness of God, in His unconditional Love, and in the light of His Truth. Our cooperation speeds up the process. IJohn 1:1 addresses Christians and the sin factor in a very wonderful way. My friend who warned me to stay away, who was wanting to protect my heart, is someone who didn't speak to me for a good twelve years. Our local leader had decided to rebuke me sharply before the whole church that my sin (which I had openly owned up to for the purpose of getting right with God) might be made known. And then my closest friends wouldn't talk to me or my family any more. Those wounds are healed, but most of those friendships are lost. Why? Was that process really necessary? I can only speak what I have seen and heard. I determined long ago that if my critics are right and I am indeed bound for hell and deserve to be marked and avoided... then I will point to Christ Jesus every step of the way because I know he is our only hope for salvation. That is why the break down in the CES pains me so much and weighs heavy on my heart. Five years ago Mark and Dan were in town for a Time of Recociliation. Now they will be opposing one another in a court of law. How does that happen? I have thought long and hard about it and have to say the root cause is spiritual in nature and it ain't holy spirit. It's not my brothers in Christ who have destroyed relationships and such. It is the same thief Jesus warned about in John 10:10. and even if I sound paranoid, it doesn't change the truth of God's Word. Shall I defend the apostleship of John Lynn? Shall I speak as a fool? You can't deny that he has devoted his life to traveling the world, teaching the bible, and maintaining relationships with all the churches he has been called to minister to, to the best of his ablity. I am not the only one who has heard him teach and found the Truth hit my heart like blasts of heat lightening. I love those times. In his sphere of influence his life has been on display, and perhaps he has outdone the Apostle Paul and become the "chiefest of all sinners" The gifts and Callings of God are still without repentance. God Bless Him ! I've had some very strong arguments with him, but he has never slammed the door in my face. Jesus Christ is not ashamed to call him "Brother", why should we? And you who consider yourselves strong in the faith... receive not them who are weak unto doubtful disputations... but receive one another even as Christ Jesus has received you (not imputing your tresspasses but cleansing you with his blood) unto the glory of God. Is that so hard to see and do?

Consider This. "Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamour and slander be put away from you along with all malice And be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ has forgiven you." Ephesians 6:32,33 NASB I don't expect to make any more posts, so let me leave you with this. Then I'll be on my way. We are in a spiritual battle and we have an enemy who is playing for keeps, he is lawless, he is cruel, and he is deceiving as all hell. Our enemy is mot John Lynn It is not Mark Graeser. It is not Victor Paul Wierwille. It is not the Scape Goat Du Jour Our enemy is the spiritual wickedness in high places. My intention is to speak words of truth and light that are mighty to the pulling down of strongholds. You can believe what you want, but there is a demon of wrath and a demon of anger and of slander and of malice. There are seducing spirits and deceiving spirits and accusing spirits that are bent on the destruction of you and me and everything dear to the Almighty God. If you listen to them long enough you will start to believe them. When you start to believe them they will settle into your heart. Then you'll start to smell and speak just like them. Then we've got some real problems. Deliverance is readily available, thank God. To the degree that we believe and obey the truth is the degree to which the enemy will flee. To that degree we will put off the works of darkness and put on the arnour of Light. in his book, The Three Battlegrounds Francis Frangipane warns how Lucifer was in the heavens when he fell Adam was in Paradise when he fell. Take heed lest you fall too. Our stand begins with the name of Jesus Christ on our lips, but to withstand the wiles of the wicked one we must have His divine nature established in our hearts. If we give place in our hearts to the evil intents of the wicked one, then love will grow cold and hearts will grow hard, and there will be more traumatized lives and shattered dreams. It may be well and good to recognize hurtful actions and words, and criticise the sins of omission and commission. It's a righteous thing to reprove, rebuke, and exhort with all Longsuffering but do it in the Wisdom from Above and look deeper to see what manner of spirit is underlieing the deeds. is it holy or unholy? and you must look to your Lord Jesus in order to see the spiritual reality. and you must follow his lead to Stand Therefore, in the Power of His Might. You can mark my words or you can mock them. You can call them flowery and beautiful and imply there is no substance, that I am a waybrained parrot, a weak-willed host to mind controling cult leaders. That doesn't make them any less true. I forgive you. you really don't know what you're saying. I probablly remind you of someone else. I am not offended. I just wonder why. I wonder why someone has a problem with a vision to provide Christian Education across the globe. I wonder why the enmemy has found a way to get in and start to break up all the work towards accomplishing that vision. I wonder what I could or should have done differently that might have nade a godly difference. I am grieved and come to my Savior to dwell in the fellowship of Light with Him in the arms of my Father, God., and am cleansed again from all unrighteousness. Come on In The door is open to anyone who wants to step out of the darkness and into the Light and Love of Christ and when I say God Bless You I Love You You Are the Best it's a message from the Christ in Me to the Christ in You It is the goodness of God that leads to repentance and nothing shall separate us from His Love Peace in Christ Jesus and Glory be to The Father in Heaven forever and ever

He teaces the Word without charge, Excathedra, but it's $100.00 for a chiropractic treatment. He is a superb teacher of the Word. Check out www.FORHISGLORY.ORG if you're interested in seeing the Truth through Hebrew Eyes.

Good Morning All ( Sprawled Out...maybe I'll see you at the Jubilee) (( a Grateful Dead line in case any one's wondering)) Rascal, that's a very good point about who exactly is the Shepherd. Back in the day I actually bought into the notion that John was the big bad wolf. We marked and avoided him and anyone who got near him, (aside from the spys we sent out to take names) all in the name of God. John was actually om a mission to wake people up so we'd see the light and quit acting like jerks. not much unlike some of the posters here :) his "Everything You Wanted to know About Fear but Were Afraid to Ask" is a classic teaching. every PFAL Grad should listen to that. likewise "Jeus Christ and Me" When I finally did attend a meeting with him he was very intent on proving that Jesus is not at all absent from the body. Thay made a huge difference for me. Then I was marked and avoided too. Crazy Now, some 15 years later, I think after getting so beaten down with doing damage control from letting over opinionated people like me have at it, that they fell right into the trap of trying to control the environment and keep it from getting too out of line. what a strange twist of fate ( and please forgive me if you consider the word 'fate' to be idolatrous') Good Point Rascal. Jesus Christ does know his sheep and how to keep them in line. Do we really trust him to do that, or must we insist on doing it our own way instead ?

Hello All ( not just 'most' but All who call upon Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior) Thanks for the thoughtful feedback. Not nearly as unpleasent as I had feared. Yes, the name Estimated Prophet says something about me. A. I am a Bachelor of Science in Business Administration who miss-spells words some times. B. I believe I have the God Given ability to bring forth a word of prophesy...etc.... C. I am a huge fan of the Grateful Dead. ( kudos Sprawled Out ) D. All of the above I said what I believed needed saying as well as I could. I took time to consider what I wanted to say and what I did not want to say. This is a heavy matter that goes deep in my heart. Tonight is much more off the cuff. I hear what you're saying as well, and most of your concerns do need to be addressed and I believe are being addressed. Hebrews 12:25-29 hits the mark, in my estimation. Our God is a Consuming Fire I don't care to get into a discussion on specific detatils such as what makes someone a prophet or apostle, or what exactly is wrong with the flesh . Not that I wouldn't love to, but I type slow. I've been burned and insulted too. I prefer to forgive it and move on. There is a Messianic Jew who is a gifted teacher I like to listen to who is also a chiropracter. He says that there are at least a hundred different ways to fall down, but only one way to stand up straight. I like that He also told me, to my face in public, that I am going to go to hell for not believing that Jesus is God the Son. I didn't like that. The biblical education I have received, primarily from the Way and then from CES, as well as scores of other Christian Ministers enabled me to go to the bible to see if I was going to hell or not. I don't need to base my faith on the misguided ( though sincere) declarations of a gifted speaker. He and I did go to the bible together, but I found him entirely unreasonable about the trinity The point is that not everything an apostle or a prophet or a teacher says and does is always going to be true. Just because they are bound by a stronghold of deceit in one area or another does not prevent the Christ within them from manifesting himself. I like when that happens. I love all Christian ministry. Like it or not, my faith is more at home with S&T than in any other church I've come across, but it's not exactly a comfort zone. I just believe Jesus Christ is able to purify his people to be zealous for Good works, and the folks at S&T are all in favor of that as well. God is working good things in His people all the time ! I love that the Catholic Church that I grew up in had standing room only on Ash Wednesday last April. Unbelievable!! It wasn't because the Catholics are holding fast to the rightly divided Word. There's all sorts of psyco-babble in their catecisms still. It wasn't because the Catholics have done such a tremendous job of squelching the abusive ways of some of their leaders. St John's Church had standing room only on a Wednesday because Father Steve is truely walking in the gift of God's Grace and Love the best way he knows how. and the people are being touched by the Master's Hand. I've seen it. John Lynn and John S and Mark G might have waited until they got it all straight in their hearts, but I know they saw lots of sheep with no shepherd and wanted to do something to help. All things considred, they've done a remarkable job. Now they need our love and support and prayers and the words of reconciliation that we have been entrusted with. Healthy criticsm too. Say what you believe needs saying... just say it with genuine love in Christ. Peace and Love

Peace I ventured to this forum to find out what was going on with The Spirit and Truth Int. Now I would like to weigh in with my perspective, and pray it will resonate with the Christ within you as you read. I must say that I am dismayed, though not surprised, with some of the antagonsim being expressed towards the CES/S&TF leadership. Perhaps it is good to have an outlet to vent these frustrations and concerns and opinions , but I pray that as we consider these words that the Lord Jesus Christ will give us understanding and work within us to be conformed more and more to his image. My relationship with CES has been very close at times and very distant at times. When I tell you that I love , respect, and admire John Lynn and Mark Graeser and John Schoenheit and Dan Gallager ; please understand that I am not unaware nor ignorant of times where they may have missed the mark. I will defer the final determination of all that to the righteous judge, Jesus Christ. I recall quite vividly how John Lynn described ( as only John can do ) the challenge of striving to "Do Christiamity Right" while being "All Covered with Flesh" !! Yuk! I consider John Lynn an Apostle and Teacher of the Lord Jesus Christ. I Corinthians 4:9 describes an apostle as being a spectacle to the world and John epitomizes that scripture in my heart. Even his failures have taught me many good lessons. I've heard a lot of people say a lot of bad things about John but the worst things I have heard straight from John's mouth. The way he bares his heart is what speaking the truth in Love is all about. ( even if he can be very stubborn and opinionated!!) I can't imagine the grief John must have felt as he wrote this letter regarding the actions of his dearest and most trusted friends. I have been on and off board the CES ship at various times, yet I have always been impressed with their integrity and godly love. They have always been intent on doing what is right in the eyes of God, and I respect that intention whole heartedly. A few years ago my marriage was in a very distressing state. I think the only thing my wife and I could agree on was that we trusted John Schoenheit's perspective. John very generously gave us great attention and invested his soul into saving our family. Yes, there was a dose of what you might call psycho-babble, but it was all being sifted though the Word of God and our combined godly perspectives. It was a gut wrenching process. A lot of those " he said I had my head up my butt and it hurt my feelings" sort of things. Praise God that we are now more happily married than ever . I give the Almighty God the glory for this. I recognize how He was working through Christ in each one of us to to bring about a healthy resolution. I am very grateful to John S. especially for the way he ministered to us. Likewise a number of other saints of S&TF served beautifully just the way you would want the family of God to work by 'speaking the truth in Love.' I dare say God has wrought much more good in people's lives though The Sprirt and Truth Fellowship than any harm that may have come through it. But again I will defer that determination to the Righteous Judge. I am praying passionately that the present situation will be addressed soundly and will serve to succour and strengthen this great association of believers in The Sprit and Truth Fellowship. I believe the Lord Jesus has worked to bring them to a point of being able to make a huge impact in this troubled world. I believe the enemy is out to destroy it all. I believe the Captain of Salvation is at work to right the ship, 'throughly furnishing them unto every good work.' If all goes well with them, then it will all go well with us for we are all truely united together in Christ and His Redeeming Love. ...And I am praying for you, dear reader... I can feel the pain of old wounds as I read some of your posts and pray the Good Shepherd of your soul will come alongside you and minister to your heart as only he can do. ( which is usually through broken saints) I was wondering why you are here at the Grease Spot at all. I believe that it is because you've had times experiencing the touch of the Master's hand upon your heart as you listened to the Word of Truth being expressed by a gifted teacher in Christ, I believe your heart yearns for more of those encounters with Christ, in the fellowship of the Saints in Light, and Christ Jesus surely yearns for more of them with you too. Maybe that minister was Dr Victor Paul Weirwille, or Craig Martindale, or John Lynn, or Mark Graeser; or all of them and many others of the same kind at various times. and then maybe one of them let you down and caused you pain. betrayed your trust it's the sincere ones that can really get you, you know. They're all covered with flesh , just like you and me. Welcome to the Family of God !! Through it all you are and will always be the Apple of The Father's Eye, and He is already at work to tend to your every need and has your road to Glory all mapped out. Believe It I once told John Lynn ( in the middle of a very agitated disagreement !) that I would fight for him just like I do for Dr. Weirwille. and that is what I have endeavored to do just now. with a heart that is open like a sunflower to the sun I conclude by saying God Bless You I Love You You Are the Best (because God made you that way in Christ)