Bolshevik

Thinking of up,

TWI didn't like the crucifix.

A cross, and horizontal beam and vertical beam.  We are and upright being.  We walk on two legs.  That is unique.  Horizontal beams could represent the earth, vertical is getting our inner being aligned.  The beams cross near our heart.  There's a lot in this symbol.  An "UP" would be in the vertical beam.

In Genesis, Heavens has to do with water, and the people could only describe with what they saw with their eyes.  And they didn't have light pollution and iphones distracting them.

However, what is written is poetry, and that structure of this poetic writing might lead one to conclude different ideas if taken literally.

48 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Ageism, really?

A man must do the work with that faculty he has now. But that faculty is the accumulation of past days.... No rival can rival backwards. What you have learned and done, is safe and fruitful. Work and learn in evil days, in insulted days, in days of depression and debt and calamity. Fight best in the shade of the cloud of arrows. -- Emerson, Journals and Misc. Notebooks of Ralph Waldo Emerson. Cited in Three Roads Back: How Emerson, Thoreau and William James Responded to the Greatest Losses of Their Lives, by Robert D Richardson.

Maybe it's the wrong term.  But the "thread" was describing how older generations take advantage of younger ones, young minds.  Cult leaders can be older, but that's certainly not the rule.  

The transition from dependent to independent may be what's in focus.  An example can be found in universities, targeting impressionable young minds.

So naturally, why so moldable as betray everything gleaned in the decades before?

6 minutes ago, OldSkool said:

Heliocentric models have been dominant for the past four centries or so, dominant meaning accepted by the majority. Before that geocentric models of one variation or another ruled the day, with the common belief that the sun orbited the earth, etc.

There may be psychological or emotion associations with the cosmology . . . the Bible is not a science book . . . This would be a projection of the collective psyche of a specific people, trying to understand their inner universe, as opposed to the physical one.

7 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

Cypress Hill?

It was a pile of olives.  

He died on a skull.  That's kinda neat.

2 minutes ago, Raf said:

Up to heaven. Down from heaven. In the heavenlies. I think a full exploration of first century cosmology (which is to say, what people believed about the planet and the sky in first century Palestine) would be a fascinating thread. I think I'll do some research and post some thoughts in the Questioning Faith subforum. It's definitely off topic here (speaking as a poster, not a mod).

He also stood on a Hill, got high before getting high.

Right, 

So Jesus left. Into clouds.

The Holy Spirt is here.  Capital H.  Capital S.  To guide The Body? to the all truth?

Jesus is the truth.  

Jesus is not here but the Holy Spirit is so there is a presence on earth.  They and the Father are One.

So he's present.

It's the clouds that are most important here.   That's where are focus is, that's where are heads need to be.  

6 minutes ago, waysider said:

Then again, in theatre, "going up" means forgetting your lines. And, as Shakespeare famously stated in As You Like It, "All the world's a stage and all the men and women merely players" (Act 2 scene 7)

So, my theory is that it's really a mystic, cryptic message that questions reality. (Most old theatre goers likely missed this point their first time around or have simply forgotten it.)  I have a folder on it that I've been adding bits and pieces to since high school drama class. I have discussed it in intricate detail with seasoned thespians. I'm going to write a novel using the contents if I ever get the time. (Retirement is so time consuming.) I'll probably call it something like The DaWaynchi Code. Kind of a mystery, thriller, enigma type piece. Maybe I'll use a nom de plume to avoid personal controversy. Something like Butch Paisley. I'm not sure yet. I get a lot of private emails of encouragement.

So maybe by going UP, it was a way for Jesus to mike drop?

Einstein used Brownian motion to prove the existence of the atom and predict behavior.

No fancy technology.

Confoundingly simple.

So simple you wonder why others didn't think of it first.  

2 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

That's a bold theory. Radical, even.

Mike is an expert on gravitational waves. He has a folder full of notes and essays on Einstein. It's archived.

I wonder who taught Einstein to beyond?  Warped thinking sometimes works out.  Unless it doesn't.

But taking notes is curious . . . for rote memory?  Certainly not to find new patterns . . . 

1 minute ago, Nathan_Jr said:

Maybe. My fellowship commander used to point toward the ceiling (or sky) when talking about his Gawd or Jesus. I think he meant it literally as a spatial reference.

Mike said his Gawd requires binoculars to see his children. His Gawd is far away up there. Again, it's spatial. I think he means it literally, also.

 

I have a theory . . . 

I think maybe The Bible is much older than The Way International.  Maybe even older than George Washington.

Time is another dimension.  

(I'm sure Mike is familiar with Einstein's Telescope . . . he'll figure it out)

I don't think "Literal" is descriptive enough to describe The Wayfer.

There's more than that . . . or less . . . really.

I need a better word.

Just now, Nathan_Jr said:

Yeah. "Up there." Always thought that was strange. But it fits with a flat earth model. If there is UP, there must be DOWN -- turtles all the way....

So, so, so many questions, indeed.

Right so UP must be psychologically.

One of those dimensions mentioned in another thread.

I was listening to someone, a Catholic, briefly discuss how there are words used to describe items discussed in the bible, like the trinity.

He was saying in this in context of how Protestants will point out how, for example, the word "trinity" is not in the Bible - When they talk to Catholics

By Protestants he may have meant fundamentalists, since I think Protestants use the word Trinity, but that was an example.

So Jesus is UP there?

But to someone in China's perspective, they'd have to look down?  (Through the earth)

Does he move with earth's orbit to maintain UP relative to certain individuals?  But not others?

Soooo many questions . . . 

Challenge accepted!

The I's are clever.  Especially taking into account the sociopath stare.

Points 1 and 2.

Targeting the youth.  That's why they swung the spoon.  These steps needed to be sped up.  Kids don't have the psychology available to make certain decisions.  Their reactions are unfiltered and don't conform to expectations.

Ageism.  Similar in universities.  Older generation indoctrinate younger ones.

Is every generation raised without any guidance from their family of origin?  It's like followers just vaporize out of thin air. . . . and then stuff happens.  Yeah the rest of the points are fascinating. 

2 minutes ago, chockfull said:

All right Neo.  

Point taken.  To the blissfully unaware in a splinter it is utopia.

I am sure there are an infinite number of “there can be only one” avenues to pursue.  

One can start a business and be fully responsible for one’s own future.  As “the One”.   Nowadays you just need a YouTube channel and a Patreon account to be “the one”.

But there are only a certain amount of people in a certain age group that ever are “the one” in cults which usually amounts to timing and compliance.  Compliance over time is the governing principle.

Utopia is the story of the Tower of Babel and its cult following.  Out of a famous book.  It splintered.

In A Clockwork Orange's dystopia, Alex steps forward, volunteers, signs paperwork . . . this is symbolism by the author/director.  Squid Game is a story on Netflix.  Volunteers only.  

These stories are warnings, aren't they?

I was listening to a lady on youtube last night.  I was listening to her equalize good with evil and motivate her followers.  Monsters there too, yes.

11 minutes ago, skyrider said:

In my opinion..... those splinter groups that CONTINUE to teach the wierwille doctrine of Fundamentalism and Cult Control are worse than twi's institutional dogma BECAUSE these splinter guys portray themselves as groundbreaking revivalists and restorers of the faith that is in Christ Jesus.  When, in reality, they simply got frustrated with Rosalie (or LCM) and took their shingle across the street, changed their business name, and set up shop.  Then proceeded to inculcate the same material with slightly tweaked loaded language.

It's so damn obvious what they're doing.... tired of playing second fiddle, these splinter guys bolted when they saw "a future without being subservient to twi's board of directors more advantageous that rowing the mothership-cult along."  Add, gaining the podium spotlight and access to the abs-money as incentives too good to pass up. . . .

The purpose of the Imperial Harems of the Ottoman Empire were to produce an heir.  Of course, many were produced.  It was understood the siblings would commit fratricide via political means.  One would remain in the end and claim the right to rule, having proven to have developed the needed and ruthless to skills.  This helped an Empire last hundreds of years without the civil wars their European counterparts faced.

In an organization where there the daily motivation is centered around becoming the One, there can only be One.  If that spot is taken by someone else, how do you now motivate yourself each day?

And since murder isn't happening in TWI . . . splinters . . . because perfection, build utopia, as agreed to on the Green Card.

15 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

. . .

he turned the straight and narrow path of Christianity into something self-referential “as long as you love God & neighbor you can do as you full well please” . - as wierwille would often brag “anything done in the love of God is okay”. what a handy rule of thumb - if YOU THINK you’re doing something out of the love of God it’s okay. . .

I'm going to fail at articulating this back to you here.

If you love anything or anyone you don't do whatever you want.  You do what's best for them.  And I think self respect is involved.

But I imagine VPW emphasized love in such a way if you didn't nod and agree you felt you were being unloving and hurtful. . . And if you agree once, agreeing twice is easier, and then doing the things now in your head is easier.

There's two parties making decisions here.

He could do whatever he wanted.  You had to conform.  Why agree to that dynamic? . . . Because he's been allowed to become a primary if not only source of social validation.  

In his BS phrase he's suggesting you'll receive love if you agree with him.  But you won't get that, you'll get the pleasure of the thought of love . . . An addictive dopamine hit.

(Dopamine, when what you need is serotonin)

3 hours ago, oldiesman said:

Heaven must be a whole lot bigger than we can possibly comprehend especially if the universe continues to expand indefinitely as some believe.

If a day is a thousand years and a thousand years is a day,

Wouldn't 3D space be similar?  

Think of how cell biology utilizing surface area or Euclidean geometry makes the same volume seeming infinitely bigger?

I think the little gods stuff is from gnostism, meaning this stuff has been around thousands of years.  Suggesting it's simply a natural trap for any person, of any background.

It appears to make choices obvious.  Certain results are expected.  No weighing of options and making sacrifices.  Decisions are hard.  But this is lazy black and white thinking.

1 hour ago, T-Bone said:

Interesting choice of brain parts if you don’t mind my saying so. The amygdala is responsible for many important functions that involve emotional responses, decision-making, and processing memory.

 

Not sure how I feel about that. I go back and forth on whether I should get rid of mine…but come to think of it - I may have done that already - just can’t remember where or when. 

 

Right, paradoxes in other threads got me thinking about decision-making and sometimes we humans like choices to be black and white.  That takes maturity and sounds like effort.  So anyway, some humor:

8 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

 

The stayed mind can get you in trouble.

That’s why when it comes to religion and politics, I prefer my mind stay out of it.

Otherwise, I tend to give others a piece of my mind.

Nice. 

I'm hoping to get a new amygdala. Was looking for a donor.

10 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

 

 Bad example?