blarney

2027, I love this thread! Perhaps because this topic has been on my mind for so long. Our concerns about TWI or its offshoots are just part of what's happening throughout Churchianity in this day and time. I think that God is exposing this horrible wrong to all who seek to hear, and people are leaving institutions in record number -- and many are seeking ways to explore following Christ without the bells and whistles. I thought I would paste this link, in case anyone's interested. It's an article from a website that I occasionally visit. Their teachings are very good and have an anti-institutional-Christianity slant. Their articles sometimes are rather lengthly, but mostly worth the read. http://www.awildernessvoice.com/Merchandise.html I once had an e-mail correspondance with a higher up in CES about this very issue. He just couldn't see it. :( Go figure. My best, Blarney

Rascal, I'm still on a quest for God, and I consider my ten-yr experience with the group part of my learning, for good or bad. In retrospect, it was all there. We knew the scripture, the warnings about following men and not God. We knew that God himself wanted us to have a personal relationship with him. Yet, many of us chose to submit to various degrees. How could we not??? This was how it had been done for nearly 2000 years. I think of the frog in the pot of water. I was blindsided by the ever-increasing demands placed on my life by TWI because of my simple love for God. And I tolerated the abuse. And my heart breaks for those who were subjected to worse treatment than I received -- and for those in all religious groups who are undergoing similar abuses. It wasn't until last summer that I was able to put this all in perspective, even though I hadn't been part of TWI for nearly 20 years and had been briefly involved with one of the offshoots mentioned on the Greasespot page. When I read this article, it was like lightening struck me. I prayerfully submit this here for consideration, that it will heal someone's heart, or at least put things together a little better: http://www.lifestream.org/LSBL.May04.html I still really believe, but what I believe is ever harder to quantify, if that makes sense. All the best, Blarney

It's so sad. The misery and shame caused by statements like that are incalculable. So, does Ms. Shroyer have any answers besides labeling a person? Blarney

I'm new to this forum, and I've noticed such variety in opinion about whether TWI taught the truth. I'll just add my $.02, here and say that there was some truth taught, but a lot of garbage too. Some of us thought it was all truth (or mostly) because so many miraculous, or at least wonderful things happened in our lives at the time. I think that this just speaks to the fact that God can show himself strong despite our misunderstandings of him. I don't think that he looks at them like we do. But I feel that he's able to be show himself to us to the degree that we allow him to. We might attribute it to believing in a certain formula, but I don't think that he operates that way. Cheers, Blarney (formerly Blarneystone of waydale, BTW)

Roy, I totally agree. What amazes me is that these people are of the same mindset while others have moved on. I subscribe to non-way(or offshoot)-affiliated podcasts, and they do not ask for money. In fact, they think it's abhorant to ask for money. If you click around their sites, you'll eventually find places to donate, but they bury these pages because they understand God's heart. I think of the mount of transfiguation when Peter & Co. saw Jesus in his glory. What did they do? They told Jesus that they needed to build tabernacles. They sought to start a ministry. It is so human to find something powerfully spiritual and want to capitalize, or "can" it. Just my thoughts, Blarney

Socks, As a person formerly associated with a group that was nominally associated with CES, I agree. The pressure to spend more money of the latest fad was a reminder of our stint in the way, but maybe worse. So many were/are satisfied with being told what to think. From where I sat, it looked rather ridiculous. Now, I just follow Christ, wherever he leads me. After all, he promised to teach me himself, and he has not abandoned me yet. Cheers, Blarney

TWI's method of handling this particular section of scripture has bothered me for a long time, and really never could put my finger on it until lately... What's intriguing to me is that Paul wrote to the Corinthians as spiritual babies, and in that context their handling of these spiritual enablements was a big concern for Paul. And it seems to me, if they were that important, Paul would have made a big deal out of them in his other letters. But he didn't. And a further matter, for me, is that "more excellent way" that he details in chapter 13, a chapter that most people give short shrift to, IMO. Also, I was involved with a group that sat and listened to a bootlegged copy of the class, checking with the interlinears and concordances as we listened. VPW pretty much butchered a good bit of it, particularly this section. I also thought I would add my thoughts about the human propensity to codify spiritual stuff. I Cor. is a letter of correction, and yet many groups use Paul's correction as doctrine. But, God being God, operates inside and outside our human boxes, which BTW cannot contain him. Thank you for the welcome, Ca_dreaming! I've not figured out how to navigate around this particular forum to reply personally, yet! Blarney

Bolshevik, TWI is not the only group that believes in "manifestations on demand." I belong to other forums, and lots of people are detoxing over that type of doctrine. Yes, I do have some thoughts about the manifestations. Do I believe they are from God?? Yes and no. (probably more 'no' than '"yes.") I'll be back later with more thoughts, Bolshevik. This might involve a little review of my personal journey and also my biblical views to date. Blarney