Microbe

Many times, when my husband and I would argue about something, he would say,"I'm going to call (our LC) and talk to him about it." It was a threat to me to shut up about any disagreement and sent shivers down my spine. It was just like when I WAS a child - and my siblings "tattled" on me to my folks. GAWD! How insane! As if we were not able to resolve any conflicts ourselves. He "tattled" on me once and I was yelled at for weeks, put on a program for recovery, had to check in daily, etc. It was hell! I too, cried, when I had to attend even a fellowship, but especially any weekend meeting. Now that we have been out for awhile, if we have a disagreement on something, I can almost read his frustration in his face. He can't tattle on me to anyone any more and we have to work it out ourselves.

All I can say is WOW! About 10 days later, 36 pages, over 700 posts and nearly 17500 views on this thread alone. What if only 10% of those views were single readers, like me, what's the word? Trolls? Moles? Microbes? No, that's not it. But, whatever ... checking in from time to time to catch up, rarely (if ever) posting. That's over 1700 folks who still care to know about "the rest of the story" about TWI. Guess you hit a nerve HCW.

Dang - I wanted to be HCW's soulmate - :)--> My son loved that show - does that count? How about Monty Python "Flying Circus"? Honestly, thanks for this thread everyone. It has been ... ah mazing and eye-opening.

Went LEAD late in the 90's - when it went back to the Gunnison area. It had been a winter with lots of snowfall but a particularly warm April. The worst part was hiking back OUT of our main base camp. The snow was so unstable we had to use snow shoes which were supposed to be used with poles. We also had packs, some upwards of 100 pounds because we were breaking down the camp. We also had to carry things like five gallon buckets full of gear instead of the poles. The snow was like frozen paper on top and powder underneath. Each step resulted in us sinking up to our thighs. Try stepping out of snow up to your thigh, in snow shoes, with 100 pounds on your back and a five gallon bucket in each hand! We had to hike downhill like this for what seemed like hours - more like just a mile or two I suppose. But it took forever! Of course, some would fall and "turtle" because besides all this there was ice to deal with. Were we encouraged? Given support? Hell no! We were screamed at, threatened, chastized, called every foul name in the book if we fell. Wonderful experience ... made me want to be Corps! Yeah ... right. If God treated me like that, I wouldn't want to worship that god.

Oh my - this topic can go on and on. This one event in TWI history was probably at least as damaging as any other, be it the sexual abuse, M & A policies, etc. We were in residence during this time and were told over and over to clean out our lives. WHAT DID WE HAVE IN STORAGE somewhere? This was a hugh issue. I asked my spouse if we were wrong to have a tool box in storage - jokingly of course. I did not buy it, because I knew TWI would never take care of our latter years. Of course I did not voice this to anyone, not even to my spouse. We were encouraged to void ourselves of all assets, especially if we had kids who wanted to go to college. The mentality was that they would be more likely to get full (free) rides if we had no assets whatsoever. That's what the campus coordinator did - and see, it works! This was clearly and specifically stated from the lunchroom head table. Nevermind that some of us had planned and saved so that eventually we could take the financial responsibility for our kids' education ourselves. That money was a distraction even though a few years back, the same spiritual leaders had told us that we should save and plan for this. Nothing was free, we were told, and to not take care of your own made you worse than an infidel. One year we are worse than infidels for not saving and planning, the next we are the scourge, the reason the ministry is having financial problems - the fly in the ointment for doing so. I simply scratch my head when I think of all this stuff. I generally don't think about it too much anymore because we have successfully survived and overcome it. But, yes, there should have been some court action.

Sky - WOW! I have never read anything like this that really spelled out the details of these years. You ought to write a thesis on it, its effects and consequences, not only to the ministry but to you, your family and the families that you know. Not sure what you should do with such a paper, but it would be valuable for someone. Maybe call it, "Christians should speak against false "revelation" from anyone, even if he believes he is the Man of God for Our Time." I, too, was amazed at this "revelation," and the devestation it caused. No true revelation from the true God would hurt HIS people so deeply. Wasn't LCM big on "common sense"? Wonderful, committed, prosperous Way Corps were trashed if they didn't sell their businesses, quit their professions, yank their beloved children out of developing talents, interests, hobbies. Being in residence at the time, we were constantly yelled at for weaknesses that were attributed to some "hidden" doubts about full-time. Who was still holding onto something from their past professions?? Did you have tools in storage?? We were made to feel like we had stolen the "accursed thing" and were evil-minded if we questioned our futures. I remember one Corps meeting where LCM, somewhat quietly, explained how things were not working out as well financially as they needed. It wasn't that the ministry was not operating within its means. Oh no! "It's the taxes!" he moaned. The payroll taxes. Now wait a cotton picken minute. I am a business owner and have payroll. I know about payroll taxes. They have always been there and will always be there. These are not surprises. They are the one category of expense I can be absolutely sure of. I know their exact amounts each time I issue one lousy pay check. They may not be due in the bank that day, but I know exactly when they are due and the consequences of late or non-payment. I guess he had some bad financial advise or just chose to ignore it. If you cannot make payroll taxes, you are not operating within your means. Period. Later, when the revelation was that we were not Corps material, we were told to live close to our LC. I observed a family living so sub-abundantly it was pathetic. We were often asked to help out at their home, specifically cleanning chores. I remember going over there and finding NO cleaning supplies - two or three wet and dirty rags, no paper towels, and bottles of cleaning products that we had to add water to in order to squeeze out some bubbles. YET when I brought over some of my own stuff, I was flatly told leave it in my car. Not acceptable. Corps could not accept the smallest gift. Common sense? Yeah, my common sense tells me this was insane. No loving God would force this level of hardship on His presumed best leaders. But then I didn't hear that voice that LCM heard - while driving a county road somewhere close to HQ, as I believe he related. It was so clear, he stopped his car, got out - if I remember correctly. I wonder if he heard that voice as clearly when he got the revelation to put the Corps back to work, after causing havoc in their lives for three years. An apology would have been appropriate. Instead we heard his explanation about witnessing to people who the adversary thought were safe from God's Way Corps.

Does anyone remember Children's Activities and "directed play"? I had the putrid experience of once being put in charge of this activity. It involved having the littlest ones (and I mean some around 2 years old) sit around a table that they could hardly reach. Each place had a pile of some sort of "play" object - tiddlie winks, blocks, beads, stackable objects, etc. I think my day had plastic objects of various sizes and colors. I sat at the head of the table with my pile, and of course, my spoon. There was NO speaking allowed. I moved one object, and they were all to move the exact same object in the exact way. Any deviation of even the slightest extent was met with a sharp wack! Just picture this and the obvious difficulties with regard to mirroring - across a table! Do they move the object to the right or the left? Up or down? I couldn't even talk to them to explain the movement. It broke my heart that I had to do this under the watchful eye of the overseer. I had the sweetest little girl sobbing so hard (and silently) that it made me sob inside. Ditto to Watered Garden and the "unpunched noses" that I left.

Yes, Wordwolf - I agree. I remember DM stating in some meeting that she never went to bed at night until EVERYTHING was in order in her home. Maybe she missed a little detail somewhere along the way? ... It kinda reminds me of what we were taught about Job - obsessing over what he could not control completely.

Guess I would have to say I still like things in their places, but I do find myself battling stupid habits from time to time. I was taught to place the stick of butter on the butter plate in such a way that you NEVER touch it with any part of any finger. You are to manipulate the wrapper just so, using the point of your index finger, on the paper of course, to delicately remove the wrapper. All this was so that no hint of a finger print should appear on the stick. While trying to do this just the other day, I got so frustrated that I just grabbed the darn stick of butter with my whole hand (gasp!) and plopped it down. We all survived the meal and no one indicated that they even noticed my palm print all over the butter.

Bluesunday - check your private topics.

I once heard that 95% of statistics are made up right on the spot!

A note about BG Leonard from my memory. It was Montana, circa 1985, and VPW had recently died. The Limb was contacted by somone at HQ (not LCM) and told that BG Leonard would be in the state doing some "classes." Maybe we would want to check it out, she said. The Way believers were all encouraged by the LC (Steve Sann) to take part in his teachings, to the extreme that some people quit jobs to attend his intense, full-time 2 week class. That summer, he came to HQ during the Rock and attended the VPW memorial, but was not "officially" invited by HQ leadership. In fact, LCM got very peeved at that Rock and yelled quite a bit later on via Corps tapes that Leonard was even there. LCM was proud that he "never shook his hand," and yelled about how VPW was not even cold in the grave and we were already seeking after signs, etc. Translation - LCM did not like BGL very much ... which maybe explains why he was wandering around not knowing where to get food. The Montana Way believers were later chastised for being so excited about his teachings which, by the way, were nearly line-by-line verbatim teachings later done by VPW. Guess LCM knew about the plagerism and wanted to stem the tide or something. Personally, I didn't care. If it was truth, it was truth and nobody should have the copywrite on it. BGL had a great deal of enthusiasm that was already lacking in the Way by that time, as far as I can remember.

I have only read a little here and I don't want to start any argument, but I have often wondered about VPW's emphatic stand that "Christians" were called that because they were always talking about "Christ in them." Isn't that obviously an error considering how languages work? I mean, we don't call Italians that because they are always talking about Italy being in them...

I was there circa 1985. Maybe know something. Of whom do we speak?