brideofjc

hmmmmm maybe just a couple a' heels ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

"Aaahhhhh! Nothing like getting home from a long day at the workplace and get to

bask in the wit and wisdom of the GScafe." Thanks for the laughs, I needed that.

Why dont you go find ONE dead person and see what they say about it.

Go ahead, I'll wait...

Rachel

It's not about finding a dead person to see what they have to say about it. There isn't any question that the

body is dead and therefore the brains cells have decayed and so logically speaking the person doesn't have the capability to

retain or remember anything physically such as how to tie your shoes, etc.

1 Thess 5:23 Paul clearly demarcated that there were three components to the human person, namely: spirit, soul and body. It is when

we do not observe such distinctions that we find ourselves wading through questions. Does the body die? yes. Does the spirit live eternally?

yes. I believe that whether you believe in Jesus or not, your spirit is eternal and you are merely deciding on which place you will live

in for all eternity. Now about that tricky thing we call soul. The Scriptures for me are clear and that it says that when God breathed into

Adam, he BECAME a living SOUL. So it is when we die, we become a dead soul. So where does the soul go to? I believe it is our soul

that will be judged. Our spirits were made alive when we chose Christ to be our Savior. The flesh will one day be resurrected.

A good way to think about it is this: I am saved (spirit); I am being saved (soul) and I will be saved (body).

The Bible is very clear on dead folks - It says they are dead.

They don't know anything, because they return to the ground they came from. Dust thou art and to dust thou shall return...

Ecclesiastes 9:5

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Their memory is forgotten because they are dead, they don't have memory anymore. Here's another one...

Psalm 6:5

For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

When I read Eccl 9:5, I used to espouse what TWI said, but no more....it doesn't say that THEIR memory is forgotten, but the

memory OF THEM is forgotten. I occasionally still remember my Grandfather, but he's been dead now for 33 years and I know that once I die

my daughter will not think about him other than a name in a family Bible. Why? Because he died before my daughter was born.

and then look at Ps 6:5....in death there is no remembrance of thee (: colon) in the grave who shall give THEE thanks?

The remembrance is of God and the next clause verifies that the writer is thinking of the Lord for he then says "give thee thanks?"

I personally would like to think that when I die, I will be awake and in the presence of the Lord. When the Bible speaks of people who have

died as being asleep....it might be only talking about "resting in the Lord" and not a literal sleep or unconscienceness.

Why don't you just OUT with it and tell us what YOU REALLY THINK?

Some comments from you in conjunction to the thread title might be extremely helpful.

Thank you very much for the reference anotherDan.

Thanks for the response Brideofjc,

It's interesting to me that you seem to have figured out a way to be cautious and reasonable about the extra-canonical writings while others totally reject anything but the King James bible and it's sometimes imperfect translation.

Try telling a fundamentalist that the King James stole about half of what William Tyndale translated and the other half they managed to make worse. I shared that opinion of mine and got quite a reaction too.

(edited for spelling)

Many laughs, Jeff....I seem to remember...but don't quote me....that while we think that the KJV seems to have Shakespearean

type language is because it was the common folk who spoke that way. The well educated did not, at least I think I remember hearing one of my

professors give this anecdote. Today, we read it and imagine that the kings and queens spoke this way and they did not.

Some of the apocryphal books are strange, but they are written in apocalyptical fashion even as the genre of Revelation, so one has to be careful

to not take it literally. Probably one of my favorites, is probably the Book of Enoch. This gives some rather neat insights into the creation of the

world and the Watchers that were put here by God. It was probably these Watchers (angels) who were probably the ones written about in Jude

who left their first estate and cohabited with the daughters of men and thus the Nephalim came into being. When the world became so wicked

that God sent the flood, the Nephalim were spiritual B astards and so when they drowned they could neither go to heaven, their fathers' dwelling place, nor could they go to hell or Hades, the abode of the dead because of their physical parentage, i.e. their mothers. Therefore, it is thought that these

then became what today we call demons. They are stuck in a quasi-state probably until the final judgment when God will make the final call.

Blessings.

If Paul wrote Hebrews, he was in an entirely different mind. Not once does Paul's distinctive phraseology come through in the lines of Hebrews. (i.e. "in Christ")

Yes, Apollos was mighty in the (OT) Scriptures, and eloquently convinced others from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ, which pretty much describes the anonymous author of Hebrews, but that's not enough to be definitive about it. Other guesses (Timothy, Priscilla ... hey, why not Aquila?) likewise, are just that: speculation.

The canon is composed of writings that by their nature are clearly superior to imitations. Yes, there was respect for apostolic authority (though Luke, who wrote two books, was "merely" a traveling companion of Paul) which is why forgers and imposters named books after earlier authorities.

Is the canon perfect? It is if God watched over "His Word." But then we could use that argument that the KJV is perfect; something I do not believe. I do believe that the canon is a treasure chest, and I agree with an earlier poster who said that there is much to be gleaned from extra-canonical writings. Is the canon closed? If a demonstrably authentic copy of Paul's letter to the Laodacians was to surface, should it be added to the canon? Uh huh! And stranger things have happened.

I recommend this book by Bruce M. Metzger:

The Canon of the New Testament: Its Origin, Development, and Significance

The people that sat over the process of establishing the canon, I believe did their best with what they had at the time. I believe that our God did watch over the choices that were made. But is God through? No, look at the other findings of papyrii that keep coming up over time. If the same

board or even another canonical board were to be established after all of the more modern finds, I wonder what today would be included in our Bible??

The KJV is not perfect, although if you told this to a fundamentalist, you'd better have a 50 foot running head start I once said that there were

better versions than KJV and there was just such a fundamentalist in the group....well, let me tell you...he got red faced, blew up and said that the KJV

was the veritable writ of God....you could almost see the pages in his Bible smoking from the finger of God having touched them. I tried to inform him

that the translators had done their best for 1611 and everything that they had at the time...but alas....no use. Needless to say, we didn't get off to a really

good start.

The extra-canonical writings are an excellent source of knowledge, but again, it should be approached with caution and realize that they were rejected

from being in the canon for a reason. It would be best to find info about them on the internet about the books you wish to read and to see why they were

rejected and then read them. You won't go to hell if you read them as some people believe.

Bruce Metzger is also the editor of the 4th rev. ed of the "The Greek New Testament" which I keep on hand at all times.

I, too, remember hearing that explanation of doulos.

(ie; the 7 years, earring, etc.)

Doing a very quick check here, I see that duolos does not seem to appear at all in the OT.

It is used predominantly in the Gospels.

I find myself wondering if, perhaps, that teaching about "free slaves" didn't originate in some of the Orientalisms material.

It might be interesting to see if that description is indeed accurate or has any application to the body of Christ in this day and time.

You won't find "doulos" in the OT because it is a Greek word. You will have to look in the LXX if you want to find

that particular Greek word. Blessings.

There was a class, called "Christian Family and Sex" and when I found out about what The Teacher had been doing with his Students I thought it was the height of hypocrisy for him to have taught it.

I agree with George. There was way to much assumption and innuendo regarding that verse about "the way of a man with a maid."

I do believe that that class, which I took, and it was sort of embarrassing to sit there, was really VPW's attempt to open up people to spirits of

lust so that he could continue to have his way with whoever. While marital sex is not embarrassing or shameful, I do not think any "ministry" should

have such a class in the first place. If a couple needs help in that area there are plenty of other resources that a couple can share privately.

Just my thoughts this morning.

In by midnight? Yeah, I remember. Went WOW in 1982 and had always wanted to see Jerry E. Lewis perform, but had to leave promptly in time to

fulfill that silly rule (no exceptions) and so missed most of his concert. Oh, and yes had to get permission to see my own Grandmother when she

was just a few miles away at the PTL club. OMG, sometimes I can't believe I actually did those things.

And now that I remember....having to hang the pictures....just so....cuz it might warp your mind to look at a picture that was off a mm or 2....LOL

And if you made a mistake???? We won't go there.

Oh, well, why not....I had believed big time to be sent to sunny California for my WOW year...but when I opened the envelope....North Carolina?????

Naaawwww! But then....received a letter from this woman. "Dear Daughter....How do like San Diego????....Love Mom!"

Apparently, that year there were two women with the same name and they switched cards....Now that was REAL SPIRITUAL! So they sent a

family WOW to a single family and what do you want to bet, the other woman was "SINGLE and got sent to a family WOW home. Then later they

must of realized that they mis-filed the cards and so sent the other woman's mail to me, where she was probably believing to be sent and couldn't

understand why the Lord sent her to sunny California. Probably hated California, too.

When I left I stopped tithing....AND OMG, I ACTUALLY COULD AFFORD RENT WHERE IIIIII WANTED TO LIVE. HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?

Also, I let my place get sooooooo messssssyyyyyy...and if anyone said anything???? I told them it was THERAPEUTIC!

Reverse brain washing. My My, the looks on their faces.

Home is where the heart is...and our Home is to be in Heaven with the Lord Christ...

What you thought was home, was just a depot on the journey of life. Blessings.

1 Corinthians 3:9-15

For we are labourers together with God; ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he builds thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any many build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any mans work abide which he hath build thereon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

IMO, this is where VP went wrong. He may have started out with correct blueprints from the Lord Jesus Christ, but then he turned his back on the

Lord Jesus and relegated the King to mothballs and so lost the accurate blueprints and was left only with scribbles in the sand, but continued to

build upon the sand...

AND NOW YOU KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY!

Just so that no one accuses me of plagiarism....above quote from Paul Harvey.

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Thank you for your attention.

Mark...

I have never asked you...are you a priest? Or just a well informed adherent?

"Surrender", "open your mind", "let God take over", etc. Yeah, that terminology didn't set well in TWI.

Relinquishing control of ones freedom of will - giving up control and letting someone or something else have it.

There's some semantics involved - like VPW would refer to "guidance" - "this is the best guidance we have right now", etc. God is "leading" His people.

Those terms didn't imply a takeover or surrender, though.

I find it hard to know what people are talking about too, a lot of the times when they use those words. More or less it usually seems to mean a little hands-on action from God, if not actual control over every little thing where my thoughts and actions are controlled - "puppet" style.

Submitting is a decision, deliberate. There has to be a connection between two points for one to submit to the other. From that point on - what does it mean? Good question.

Frankly, I find it's pretty hard to actually literally surrender. In a way it's wishful thinking. I hear it at times but darned if I see it in application. Do people end up waiting for the call that never comes? Hard to say. If I don't have some standard to measure the response back, how do I know what's going on? Questions....

And yet, Socks, surrender is just that...relinquishing your control...to know that God is in charge and He will have His way. I have found

in my own life....that when I refused to go God's way....got pretty hot and heavy spiritually. However, I have usually always lost the battle...LOL....not

that there was ever really a question about who would be the winner. But I find it intriguing that though we have "free will", somehow God always

gets us to choose HIS WAY! But when you love HIM, you know deep down that His ways are higher and better as it were than ours, so there has to be

a factor of trust involved, in that if you do let the water just "take you wherever it wants to" you'll be all right. God is the creator of water, after all. I know

that I wouldn't do that literally....but the point being that if we put our trust in the Lord God Almighty....we'll come in as the winners of the race.

Hi T-Bone:

You only quoted John McArthur?? He's as anti-charismatic as you can get. Of course he'd say that....he'd frown on anything that he can't explain away

or threatens his particular theological stances.

John MacArthur states on page 361, "…the gift of tongues has evidently ceased because, since the apostolic age, it has reappeared only spasmodically and questionably throughout nineteen centuries of church history. The gift of tongues is nowhere alluded to or found in any writings of the church Fathers.

Another reason is perhaps SIT was so well established that they didn't need to discuss it anymore. While Montanus and his two female prophets did bring a revival of sorts and brought it to the forefront again, it doesn't preclude that no one else was still SIT.

3. Different Greek words for "set aside" and "cease". From The NET Bible I Corinthians 13: 8-11, "Love never ends. But if there are prophecies, they will be set aside; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be set aside. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part, but when what is perfect comes, the partial will be set aside. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. But when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways." In the Greek text set aside is katargeo and cease is pauomai.

According to The Analytical Greek Lexicon Revised 1978 Edition by Harold Moulton, The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament Abridged in One Volume by Geoffrey Bromiley, The Word Study Concordance by George Wigram and Ralph Winter and A Basic Grammar of the New Testament by George Aristotle Hadjiantoniou: Katargeo [translated set aside] is passive – meaning something or someone is setting it aside. In the New Testament, this word can mean: to condemn to inactivity, to destroy, to take out of the sphere of activity, to make inoperative. In other words in saying, "prophecies, they will be set aside [katargeo]" either an event or a person is rendering prophecies inoperative. A few other katargeo occurrences: Romans 3:3 "make the faith of God without effect", I Corinthians 1:28 "to bring to naught things that are", I Corinthians 6:13 "God shall destroy both it and them", II Corinthians 3:7 "which glory was to be done away", II Timothy 1:10 "Christ, who hath abolished death."

Pauomai [translated cease] to stop, to come to an end. This word differs from katargeo in that it is in the middle voice – the subject exercises the activity indicated by the verb with special reference to itself. A few other occurrences of pauomai: Luke 11:1 "when he ceased, one of his disciples said", Acts 5:42 "they ceased not to teach and preach", I Peter 3:10 "let him refrain his tongue from evil." In other words, in saying "tongues they will cease [pauomai]" it implies a built-in stopping point.

From the above differences in the Greek words used for set aside and cease – it appears to me there's a difference in how tongues will stop and how prophesy and knowledge will stop. Perhaps it may mean God had a limited "lifespan" built into tongues and after serving their purpose [suggested in point 1] they stopped. Whereas, prophecy and knowledge will someday be rendered inoperative by some event or person – and until such time remain in effect.

Apparently, the Net Bible is only using the "lexical" forms of the Greek word. The correct and full Greek word for "set aside" is καταργηθήσονται which is a "Future passive indicative 3rd person" so prophecies have not as yet been set aside. They will someday, but not yet.

παύσονται is a future middle indicative 3rd plural, and it is of course with the action being done by the person themselves that affects their own selves. So if the tongues cease, it is also still yet in the future. The key to when all this will happen is in the following part of that verse. "When that which is perfect comes..." The debate has long raged as to what Paul meant when he spoke of the "perfect coming" In MHO, the only possibility is when the Lord Jesus Himself returns....then [at that time] we will "set aside" prophecies and our tongues "will cease" because after all, we will know Him even as we are known...therefore, we won't need to prophesy to see the Father's heart, we will be able to look upon Him for ourselves. We won't need to speak in

a special language, because we will all have the language of heaven [whatever that will be or is].

Thanks T-Bone for some neat insights that you provided.

You're not that fuzzy and far off. That's because it was drilled into us that to OPEN your mind or let down your free will

would expose you to every demon from the pip squeaks to the really big bad boys.

Submission is good!

The one thing that I came to understand finally about VP was that he was in full out and out rebellion to the Lord. He masked it well and

sugar coated it for us, but that is why he taught never to surrender your free will. How devilish indeed. He was always warning everyone

about demons, but he should have looked under his own doormat and got rid of the squatters there first.

I know this has been touched on here and there on the doctrinal forums, but I am still confused on what it means to Blaspheme the Holy Spirit. I mean I know the TWI take on the a person can chose to be born of either God's seed or the Devil's seed, and this decision to accept either seed is permanent and cannot be undone, but is this really the case. I have even went as far as to ask other people from other denominations, and I get even a wider array of answers such as blapheming the holy spirit is commiting sucide, or it is not accepting Christ as your savior. What also intrigues me is when CHrist spoke of this blaspheming, he said (to the acussing Pharasies) they are of their father the devil, is that because they didn't accept him as the son of God. Is it because they sought to murder him without any consideration that they might be actually murdering God's only son? There doesn't seem to be any clear cut scriptures about it. I have often wondered if we don't know what blasphemeing the holy spirit is, then how do we know we haven't done it, losing all hope of salvation and acceptance by God. TWI answer to this question was simply this: You can speak in tongues, so you are saved no matter what? ANd is that even possible, is being saved a one time deal, or is salvation something you can lose due to your carnal sins. BEcause I know I am not without sin, THis is the kind of stuff the keeps me up at night, but when I think of my everlasting life and existence with the heavealy Father, and that it might not happen, it chills me to the bone.

It is interesting to note that in John 8:37ff "If the Son makes you free....(free from being in bondage to sins) ye shall be free indeed" Because whoever commits sin is the servant of it. But then Jesus tell them that He knows that they are Abraham's direct lineage, however, because they were thinking murderous thoughts in their hearts, just as Cain thought of murder in his heart at first as well. Jesus speaks of the devil as being a murderer from the very beginning. I think this very beginning was with Adam and Eve and not Cain, which is why Cain inherited the iniquity of murder from his parents. It is also interesting to read in v38... "I speak that which I have seen with MY father..." You DO that which ye have sen with your Father" Why did they want to kill Him? Because He had told them the truth and they believed Him not. So therefore, they were of their father the devil because he

was a murdered from the beginning and a LIAR and couldn't hear the Words of God." This particular verse doesn't directly speak of blaspheming the Holy Spirit, which in Greek to blaspheme means: "to defame, revile, slander; to speak of God or divine things in terms of impious irreverence, to blaspheme."

However, in Matt 12 and Luke 12, it does speak directly about blaspheming the HS. The text is clear that if anyone speaks against Jesus, it will be forgiven

if the person asks for it later. However, to speak against the HS and I would guess that it would be about His workings, His leadings etc. Look at the following verse....varry interesting....the Holy Spirit shall teach you in the same hour what you ought to say. It does make you wonder if you are taught by the HS to speak a certain thing and you refuse or you directly contradict it, if that isn't what it really is. Because if you directly contradict...are you not in essence calling the HS a liar? Even more interesting is the record in Matt 12 that Jesus was telling them that he was casting out demons by the SPIRIT OF GOD, i.e. HS. Could it also have an element of calling the workings of the HS the works of the devil? Or perhaps trying to cast demons out with some other spirit, fooling the onlookers etc.

Thanks so much you all for your responses.

As you know I've been to Greasespot for about 5 years. I've been such a believer of God and thought that I have felt his presence. I'm truly wondering if that was my rose colored glasses playing a trick on my mind or if he is just not showing Himself to me lately. Or maybe if there is one he has decided for me to do this alone for a while as some parents have to with their children.

My whole life and family have been having major downs lately. Life changing downs and I look around and don't see Him.

Jonny and others truly brought tears to my eyes with the words used. But is it just words?

George, I'm wondering if what you say is true if I could handle it with no hope? I've always said I need to have something to look forward to in the long run. So, if I stay on the route of 'I don't believe' I wonder if something good for that hope leaves me? This is what I'm afraid of.

I can't find the Scripture right now, but either Psalms or Proverbs, "If you seek Him with your whole heart, He will be found" It is the lack of

hope that will dry your bones. For in due time, you will look around and wonder why you are still hanging around here. Keep the faith.

Demons of addiction

Hey, that's just how I got my moniker... they said, "It's our way or the highway!" and I said, "Nope, I'll take The High Way, thanks" and went my merry way.

Sales Clerk: Can I help you (sign up for our super duper class)?

Customer: I just want to understand the Bible when I read it.

Sales Clerk: Well, we can do that for you and SO MUCH MORE!!!

Customer: But I don't really want anything more than that. Just to understand the Bible.

Sales Clerk: But if you get the PFAL-Pack, you get that PLUS abundance, PLUS a great marriage, PLUS a complete understanding of life, the universe, and everything!!

Customer: Oookay, so if I get your PFAL-Pack I will be able to makes some sense of the Bible?

Sales Clerk: Oh yes! (every time you read a passage from now on, you will hear Doc Vic's voice in your head telling you what to think it means)

Customer: Well, it's still a lot more than I want right now.

Sales Clerk: But it's not more than you need. You need it ALL. (sign here, please)

Customer: Well, if it will help me understand the Bible... okay, I'll sign. (signs away the rest of his life...)

Sales Clerk: Oh yes! (every time you read a passage from now on, you will hear Doc Vic's voice in your head telling you what to think it means)

YUP!

It took a long time to get that recording to finally break.

"It's the Word and nothing but the Word! When it comes to the Word, I don't have any friends!"

If only I would have listened to the Holy Spirit sooner than I did. No time like the present.

I share them in the spirit in which I received them - Pure unfeigned joy and delight. I post not to see how many will agree or not. I am posting because I love the Word. Hope you all enjoy as much as I. And I would like to hear your opinions on these jewels.

Thanks for your response, BJC.

Rachel

I know...I could tell! There's nothing quite like finding those jewels in the Word, is there?

My apologies if I sounded too " seminary" it's hard to break away from all that training that my profs

gave on how to break down and categorize the scriptures, using all of the right steps.

Scar tissue is not the same as fresh, living tissue. Even as the wounds close up with the

scar tissue, the reminders are always there.

I stayed until 1987 when upon hearing LCM degrade Jews to such a point that I realized, finally, TWI was anti-semitic...

after all....where did they place the Lord Jesus Christ? Wish I hadn't wasted all those years. But here's to ya!

Here is another one that I think follows the same train of thought:

Hhmmmm, maybe this mind control cult stuff is a lot more widespread than we think, ... yes? ;)

<br><br>

P.S., that last bit about Universism came with the video, and as far as I'm concerned, is irrelevent to the main message of the video. But since I don't have the video editing software, there it is. In any event, what I said about the rest of the video being relevent still stands.

<br><br>

I trust nobody here was too offended. ;)

<br><br>

P.P.S., when the video ends, listen to the one indicated by one of the thumbnails at the bottom called "A Word to Islamofacists". Quite straight and direct.

"Behold the power of faith?"

The question is not faith, but faith in WHOM?"

I wouldn't murder someone because they chose to not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. Would my faith understand their rejection that they

are choosing hell? Yes. But that would still be their choice.

The bit about Universism....No it was really quite relevant IMO, The Lord God said that

I John 2:15-9

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abides for ever.

Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time,

They went out from us, but were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us; but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Even according to the Muslims....They claim Abraham was their Father as well....and they went out from us...because they were not of us...

I just looked outside and it's 9 degrees, so I figured I'd better hurry up and post this recipe for Buffalo Hump chili. It's a necessity on a night like tonight and will usually prevent hypothermia....or at least make you glad you have it. It's 2:30 AM and I'm posting this at this unseemly hour as an emergency measure so no one will have to call 911 or anything.

First, you get a buffalo and cut off it's hump. Then skin it and chop it up into little pieces like stew meat. If you prefer ground meat, and you have a meat grinder like I do, then use the round thing with the biggest holes you can find. If not, then go to your butcher and get them to grind your buffalo hump into "chili grind". Any reputable butcher will know what chili grind is and many not so reputable butchers will probably know, too.

Whatever you do, don't use hamburger. That just makes a disgusting mess... like mush.

Okay, here goes...

2 lbs. ground or chunked buffalo hump. You may also use venison, elk, beef, moose, or goat (cabrito) if you like. I don't really care.

4 tablespoons of Williams Chili seasoning, or if you're cool like me, 4 tablespoons of ground up poblano pepper, which I grow myself unless the goat eats it, then I have to use the Williams, in which case the goat ends up in the chili, too...then it's not actually buffalo hump chili.

1 tablespoon ground cumin if you use the Williams, two if you use your own poblano pepper.

1 medium onion all chopped up.

1 can of Rotel tomatoes.

1 tablespoon minced garlic.

1 stalk of celery all chopped up like you did the onion.

1/2 square of Bakers unsweetened chocolate.

1 cayenne (red) pepper...two or three or maybe even more if it's REAL cold outside.

1/4 cup masa harina (corn flour)...regular wheat flour will work, too, but I prefer the masa.

Salt to your particular specifications.

Put the meat and chopped up onion in a pot and sear it, getting it all a uniform shade of grey. Pour off most of the grease, but leave a little and then put in the Rotel tomatoes and then put all the the spices in except the garlic and then put the chocolate in it then let it kinda simmer until the chocolate melts. Stir it all up and then add all the other stuff and three or four cans of water and then cover it up and let it sit there and simmer on low heat for two or three hours. Now would be a good time to taste it to check the salt. Be sure and check the water level now and then.

After it's set there and simmered for two or three hours, take your masa and mix it with some cold water until it's about as thick as real heavy cream. Make sure there aren't any lumps, or as few as possible. Mix it into the pot of chili while stirring and then taste for salt again and add the garlic.

Let it simmer for about another half hour to an hour, stirring it so it doesn't stick to the bottom, until it's about the consistency of what you think chili ought to be.

Now I know some folks put beans in their chili, but as far as I'm concerned, you're on your own with that...it's okay, I guess, you're eating it, I'm not. All I can say is if you MUST desecrate your chili with beans, use pinto beans instead of those red kidney beans.

All this is based on cooking on a indoor cookstove. Your times might vary some if you're doing it over a campfire or Coleman Camp stove or on the exhaust manifold of your truck. It works equally well with most pots and pans and even snooty pots (like SOME people I've heard about), but I prefer a cast iron dutch oven.

You can serve it however you want to, but I prefer it with some grated cheese and raw onion sprinkled on top and tostadas or maybe saltine crackers on the side.

Sounds like you could start your own religion, Ron....The Organized Church of Buffalo Hump Chili Eaters, but please don't desecrate our

new church with those magic beans.

And Ron...??? What are snooty pots? Are those pots with soot on 'em that got uppity?

Isn't that illegal???

How could it be? It was already stolen material anyway.

Haven't you ever heard of an honest thief? This way, it's only borrowing...

they'll put it right back.

But don't weep my sheep, if the Fed-?? loses it over some anonymous ocean or other.