Dot Matrix

Absolutely

If you cannot "do" it then get divorced rather than sneak around in adultery.

There are many reasons for divorce and "getting older" should not be one of them. For better or worse.

However, when the safe alternatives, therapy, talking, praying, trying do not work for that couple then I think divorce is better than adultery.

Divorce says "It did not work out." Adultery is a sneaky, lying, trust-breaking, soul crunching horror show to all concerned.

VP used to tell people how his wife's vagina was not funtioning or something... stupid. He should have divorced her and given her a chance to find love rather than destroy the world around him with his small penis and his big lies.

"I am so sick of people excusing their immoral behavior, rather than having the character and fortitude to do the hard job of helping that person that you have promised to love handle the load that you yourself have placed on their shoulders."

What if the good person trying so hard is the one who finally wants out? I think they should be able to get out of a horrible situation and still be able to love God and talk about the Bible.

The adulterer - should not be able to do so. It is a different "crime" so-to-speak.

Divorce openly says I failed. Adultery is insidious and takes down more lives than divorce - IMO

Courtship may be longer. Many many things need to be considered before marriage. And if you still get married and are so miserable, not just tired of your wife because her breasts are no longer breasts and her hind end became part of her legs in age, then divorce.

I know a Baptist preacher who had a gun in his mouth over a BAD marriage. Is suicide better than divorce? What made divorce the inexcusable sin?

This preacher was married for 22 years and his wife died of cancer. He still had three kids at home and THIS woman whose husband died 2 years prior got it in her head "preacher man" was for her. She did everything to "get him". And He knew her and the deceased husband for years. Anyway, she was kind & enjoyed what he enjoyed... On a one to one social level she mimicked his "wife" who had died.

Grief stricken, desperate for his family, he thought God restored that which the locust had eaten. After marriage, she, like the sociopath discussed in the other thread, revealed her true self. And this man's whole life was ministry. He did not want to loose his ministry. He would rather die. And became so desperate, that even with kids; he thought his own death was better than life with this demon.

God intervened and he took the gun out of his mouth and divorced.

Does God like divorce - no.

But I don't think he likes lottery tickets, cursing, over-eating and many other things either. Divorce should be a well thought through decision but I do not think it should be removed as an option just because a man teaches the Bible.

That leads to lonely broken people and the devil with an open door to their human desires... Adultery.

Now, if someone is just a pig that wants to cheat and blame his wife - I get that.

I think we as a church need to look "at divorce" and we may, as a church, see less "adultery".

It should not be an answer "first" looked at in a "sick" marriage but certainly not removed as an option. But adultery? That to me is much much worse.

God is warning us about the people who "look like us"

He calls us sheep. Jesus was the lamb.

Then, he says beware of wolves in sheep's clothing. People hiding among us who look and act like us but ARE NOT.

The tare looks just like the wheat but has "no heart" they are empty and zap the life of the wheat as they grow side by side.

The FALSE prophet is still getting "revelation" (albeit from the "other" source) and performs miracles and casts out devils. But line it up next to the REAL prophets -

Looks very much LIKE the real.... Yet Jesus sends them away saying he did not know them. And it seems right up the end they try and deceive --- they try to bluff their way into heaven by declaring they have done all these things in his name....

The other stuff (regular ol' unbelievers) is easy to spot, this group not at all. I think God is warning us about what we call the sociopath. He (the sociopath) does pretend to be what others are - to fit in and cause harm.

Yes, many local churches and many people woven among us to kill us off and take our power. Thanks Bride

Johnj

The pastors are whipped into

staying "married" by those who take scripture and make it into something I do not think it was meant to be - mean with lack of understanding.

If you find yourself married to a person who is nothing like what she presented herself to be, after therapy, after prayer, after much trying to "fix" things, then divorce. Take a break, repair your hearts, then come back.

Adultery was mentioned in the big 10 and divorce was not, gotta mean something...

To me divorce is more "honest" than adultery. Divorce says "This is not working we made a mistake" most people can forgive a mistake.

Adultery says, I do not care if I am a liar to my wife, church members, and use someone else to meet my need for love... It screams of secrets, lies, and deception... A divorce, no matter how bad it tastes, is more honest and upfront.

I guess I am a little off my own topic - but I think we need to look at this-

My question, going in over a year ago, is what is a counterfeit and help me avoid them (paraphrased)

I have been talking to a bunch of people who have been ripped to shreds in "relationships" I thought I could help them with their broken hearts...

I think God had me talk to all those people, yes to help them, but to help me.

It was the same story with different people repeated to me.

Why?

Because there are tares among the wheat. The teaching our "pastor" gave on this was the first I ever heard a tare looks just like a wheat. I thought it was an obvious weed - but a tare looks just like wheat until you open the pod and the pod is empty.

Is an atheist a tare? (Not meant to offend them here but as a Bible believer it is IN the book so it makes its way into what I am writing. This is not to turn into a defense of the atheist position) Is a regular old unbeliever a tare?

I do not believe so because they do NOT look exactly like wheat. They usually tell us they do not believe in God and have no qualms about it. It is pretty obvious that a man holding a knife a screaming does not mean you well. Or a man/woman who says, "I am not interested" that they just are not interested...

But the smiling face of someone who tells you they love Jesus. And as you knock yourself out doing all you can for our lord, they tell you it is not enough, or mark and avoid you etc. They leave you crumpled on the floor wondering about yourself... Or about this loving God who does not FEEL so loving after encountering THAT believer...

They look like us but something is just not right. Not visible at first meeting, perhaps.

So, I had to survey the landscape of my own failures. And I am very easily impressed by the charismatic, gregarious, "says all the right things" kind of person. I become addicted to how they make me feel –

Much more to type but you get the picture and this is a corporate question not a personal one.

The sociopath. Science calls them sociopaths. It is my contention that God calls these people, the charming “Christian” sociopath, a tare, false prophet and wolf in sheep’s’ clothing.

I know not to fellowship with darkness. I know to give an alter call and wipe the dust off my feet when someone continues to drag out their reasons for not believing, I know not to get linked to a pagan, but I get tricked with the rest.

I believe the rest are sociopaths PRETENDING to be what we want to "get us", so who they are is not readily seen, then change into their real identity once they "have you" to destroy you. (In a minor application the woman who pretends to like sports, tons of sex, and does not mind loud burps at the table - then once married actually hates it all and complains. Now, amplify that behavior to crushing a person who just wanted to love God.)

In my quest I found this to be informative. It is not the beginning and end all. It is not an authority and it does not have all the answers. I found it helpful. And slightly altered it can also show men the evil WOMEN who are sociopaths

http://www.takebackyourheart.com/

So, this is a time I am learning and layers of understanding are being applied as layers of blindness depart for me.

But the CORPORATE discussion on this thread is I believe there is a vast difference from the tare, false prophet and wolf in sheep's clothing compared to the unbeliever, the atheist, the pagan and the people who just do not believe the way a Christian does. I think there is a distinction. Different groups we are advised to look at for-

And to me this has been the big one- the people who pretend to be us. Maybe start an international ministry from a farm, using another person's legitimate research as bait to hide the hook. So, the bait IS real and tastes great because it is real food. Just TWI never was the "cook" of that food.

Bait and switch in TWI

In marriages

In friend relationships

The sociopath or people using sociopathic behavior, I think we are warned of them with the verbiage of wolf in sheep's clothing, tare, and false prophet. I think the warning is different from not to marry a pagan and the like. Pagans, atheist, etc, tell you where they stand, this is different. I just always read past the difference like, "yeah, yeah, avoid people who do not believe..." That is NOT what it is saying at all.

I hope I worded this correctly.

What do you think?

Sorry posted twice mod pls take this one out. Thanks

Now going to the clinical and away from the spiritual for a moment

http://www.takebackyourheart.com/

Kiki Anniston Reveals: “The "Secret Reason" Why Women Are Attracted To Jerks, Players and Just Plain Dangerously Wrong Guys.”

Hello I go by Dot Matrix and I am a co-dependant….

Well, the family corps Doctor graciously helped me through oodles of stuff. I also have a Christian counselor I have been seeing for over a year now. I see her every other week.

I like it because we pray and go to the Bible for answers.

So, I am speaking with her and she tells me I am a co-dependant.

Now, I must tell you I do not like that buzz word, partly because I do not understand it. Not in application anyway.

So, I say how so?

Well when one of these “types” of people get involved in my life a pattern begins to take place and it is relived over and over again.

At first something seems so right. This is “it”. I found the answer! This person is my dream guy!!! This “church” (TWI) is the church and I have finally found it!!!

On and on it goes…

At first, is the honeymoon period. All is well. The person/church is too good to be true!!! They are all my dreams and all I ever wanted!!!!

Then, after I let my guard down and become a fan/member/sell-out the nature of the relationship changes. Signs of abuse begin to surface. I dismiss them because after all, we all make mistakes and I already saw all the wonderful stuff. Soon the abuse and weirdness is too much to deny. But I stick around trying to “fix” it or to “get back” all the neat “feelings” that baited me to begin with.

So – Okay I did that in my male-female relationships. So how does that make me dependant?

When I try to leave, they will dose me with a dose of “wonderful” to give me a glimmer that we can get “it” back. And I begin to go “up” with their good treatment of me and go “down” with their bad treatment of me. I am wonderful because they think I am wonderful and I am crap when they think I am crap. My idenity becomes what they FEEL about me.

They target people like me and like the bad kid who pulls off the wings of the fly to torture it, I become that insect and they become the bad kid. But the SWEET things were so intoxicating that I dismiss the bad and continue to delude myself with thinking the original banquet of delightful deliciousness will reappear and STAY that way. IT will make a few brief reappearances just when I feel like leaving… but the banquet was an illusion. The feast was an oasis that a thirsty person sees in the distance as the sand and heat rob them of their sanity. And they chase after the water only to find more heat and more sand…

So, I say how are they DEPENDANT on me? Ya know? CO –dependant?

They get their power by robbing you of your “life” of your power. Of watching your hands shake at their mistreatment of you, or watching you crumble into goo as they withdrawal the “good” words providing the “good feelings” and instead “reprove” you by picking you apart and cruelly watching you writhe in a pitiful hunger.

They make you “addicts” of them. Always seeking the “good” in them which was manufactured to make you an addict – so they could give and withdrawal the drug at THEIR will --- they get their power from making us into sock puppets…. Dependent on the hand that wears us as the sock.

Yes, I have been THAT person in my relationships. IT is a STRONGHOLD of the devil.

We need to get our “fix” from Jesus. We need to let him steer our ship and when the world wants to feed us to the lions – we are not to look in the mouth of the lion but at the one who shuts their mouths. We need to look up to our God for our source of who we are and not subject ourselves as addicts to the ups and downs people provide for us as they bait themselves as an addiction – trying to get us to take the first snort of their “feel good” answers so we spend a life time chasing them in the blistering heat to the desert. Hoping we will “feel” that way again.

I guess I am these things. I was a co-dependent. It led me to controlling men and to a controlling cult. I wanted to fix my marriage, the cult, the ministers' and my relationship. When in reality there was "nothing" to fix. The good stuff is what a person "pretends to be" to get us. Or the devil puts on the hook as a tastey lure to hook us. I wanted those magic moments, however brief, I chased them like they were the reality and I was going to get it. What I got was deceived. And lived in an illusion of chasing after rainbows. The only thing worth SEEKING after is God! Then, filter all else through him.

Same principal with a little twist with TWI

The thing with TWI that worked so well was it WAS other people's successful ministries TWI put on the hook as bait. No wonder it tasted so good. It was real. But the fake part was it was never REALLY part of TWI "the hook" to evil. (IMO)

Like if I bought a wonderful dinner and fed you - telling you I cooked it. So, you began to date "the cook". The food was great - but I was never really the cook.

Praise God! Thank you Jesus!

Additional God stuff

I went to the Father after my eyes were clear and I had to know the following things:

1. Did the minister ever care?

2. What did he think now?

3. Should I write him?

(I figured God would tell me what to write and maybe I could “reach” him with reproof and correction or whatever God wanted me to say.)

The next morning the last three dream images were

1. A man kissing a woman

2. A night time city cab ride with the driver in the front and two strangers in the back

3. And a picture of a bad check.

The symbolism was GREAT!!! God was amazing!!!

1. He wanted “passion”

2. Now we are “strangers in the night”.

3. Do not write (bad checks) Do not write him!

God is hysterically funny sometimes and very individual with his conversations with us.

So, he wanted passion. Then, out of that came my being an experiment or easily malleable…. The rest … well you get it

I love you God!

More stuff but I will type later about God's goodness!

The next after the minister what God revealed to me about my "open door". What I need to do to rise up.

The God Factor

I wish I could go back and re-layer these cool things into the story where they belong.

I wanted to share how GOD tried to TELL me and I did not listen to attempts to “save “ me from this situation.

Back on March 30th of last year the minister and I had a long talk about healing. I told him how I read all I could find and searched out “healing”.

He then “imparted” to me his gift and asked for double. He told me this was the first time he had ever done this.

I must tell you that I felt something happen. It was odd. It was like cotton candy – you know, how it wraps around the cardboard stick and sits there lightly covering the stick? It was the SAME thing that happened, except I was the stick and something wrapped around me.

One day, I was in the bathtub thinking how God was restoring that which the locust had eaten with this guy. And I heard the still small voice, “You think the last one was bad? This one will be worse and he will do it in my name.”

I thought on this for sometime then dismissed it. I should have listened.

Later, I was a wreck after he just disappeared for no apparent reason. After a parade of unusual things I do not want to list, I got sick. I had a woman minister to me who told me that the “guy” in my life was using me as some kind of an experiment. Giving me things then pulling them away to see what would happen.

Then, I kind of broke. After the 20-year-storm, then the “rush” of this “dream guy” in my life, and his unexplained departure. In a dream/vision I had been in a car wreck. Jesus held my face in his hands and said, “Look at me you have been in a wreck, you are injured and you need to focus on me.”

I tried to look for who caused the accident and it was the minister I saw him as they pulled him out of the other car. He was unscathed in a suit. Not dead but not functioning either. Like a non-feeling human. I was concerned about him. Jesus said again and again as my eyes went left and right, “Look at me. Look AT ME!” I gazed forward looking at Jesus and could see in the rearview mirror. In the mirror I could see miles and miles of destruction. Burning cars all over the highway with ambulances strewn all the way back on this highway.

I knew then there were MANY others in his destructive pathway. I was not his one and only love nor his one and only victim. I was “fun” something to do out of curiosity.

But as is my nature, when he called, we made-up. I still had hopes the “guy” that presented as wonderful was “still in there” and we could fix things and “get” IT back.

I did not see that “IT” was manufactured as part of the experiment. The "game", if you will.

So, we temporarily went “back”. Then, came more of the Delilah behavior FROM him. He would call me regularly and I would respond in e-mail as he was busy and I was not free to call. So, he would SAY something and I would think about it and send a note.

Anyway, the whole time he told me he was "sensitive" to me. And I could FEEL him in this cotton candy constructed spiritual cone that hung on me. I could sense moods and subtle changes and it was just odd and had NOTHING to do with “healing”. I thought it was this shared annoiting he imparted to me.

I was used to this ministers voice and had been TRAINED to respond to it by him. Subtly it happened and I could no longer hear the still small voice of God – which I almost never had a problem hearing.

So, God reached me in dreams.

There were 5 feral cats. 4 over to the left and one to the right. The one to the right was more tender, trusting and needy than the others. She was black and white. The people in the hospital fed them and took care of them. Then, one day a brown skinned man appeared and he began to say, “here kitty kitty…” The trusting black and white cat went to him as the recent other people had been so kind she thought he was like them. And he would call her near then do mean things, like kick her, then call her again offering much needed food. Then, one day he threw something on her like acid that stuck to her coat and she could not get it off. The more she licked her coat the more ill she became. Then, finally the hospital people ran out, chasing away the brown skinned man, took the cat and washed her fur off for her and let her repair.

The interesting thing was the DAY after I broke from him in our finale a WONDERFUL, walking, talking for God genuine guy contacted me saying, “Suddenly, you were on my heart…” HE prayed for me and saw a network created from this man’s mouth to my ear. Like the old fashion tin cans on a string. He told me a non-walking or fake, or a prophet who got off sent “familiar spirits” when they could no longer get revelation from God. I knew then that was part of the cotton candy thingy I felt on me.

And even after broken it continued to come back for a period until another walking talking genuine and I went through scripture “It is written” and attacked the places he taught me things that were “just not right.” It was then it left.

The next day was a Sunday and I planned to go to a new church recommended to me. But I had no “church” clothes to wear. I only had scrub pants and an ugly sweater.

I sat in my car and cried to God about all that had happened. I thanked him for the “real” men who loved him and I was truly sickened at the very thought of the other guy. I begged God to work with me again so I can re hear and relearn HIS voice. I started my car and began to drive to the new place in my ugly clothes, with my tear-swollen eyes, and my broken soul.

Then, I saw another (different) church on the way to the one I was heading to attend. And I was DRAWN to it. I knew I was really running late to make the other NEW church so I went in to the one I was DRAWN to instead, a little late and a lot worn out.

The teacher then began to teach and he said, “I have not shared this teaching in about 20 years but feel compelled to share this story. When I was a younger minister I had a church in the hills and I taught a Wednesday night church service. The church was small and we all knew each other in the church. So, when the door opened and this stranger came in we were surprised. And he was late and in blue jeans with an old shirt, not worn to church back then. He sat down and joined the service and after wards I introduced myself and he told me how he came to be in our service.”

He said, “Well, I train hawks. And I had my hawk out flying and I would call and she would come back to me each time. Then, on one flight she flew away and did not return. I drove around calling and calling and calling. I did not stop calling her name. Finally, she returned. I always go to church on Wednesdays but I knew I was too late to make my service and I saw the lights on in your church and was drawn to your church. I was embarrassed by what I had on but I went in anyway.”

I thought, “I am just like the man in the story.”

I went to the preacher afterward and told him I was just like the man in the story and I was pleased to be there in my ugly clothes and cry-swollen eyes.

I thought on the teaching the preacher shared all day. How the master never stopped calling the hawk and for a little while she did not hear or respond to his voice. But he never stopped. God was like that man and I could also be the hawk in that story.

The next day, I went to work and the other hospital my Doctors owned, the manager Cory called to tell me someone left a box of kittens or something (as was always happening) but when she opened the box it was a HAWK. THIS had never happened. The hospital then took the bird in to help it with its injured wing.

I KNEW then what God was confirming for me. Through all that had happened he has NEVER stopped calling me. Not ever not once.

I knew to NEVER turn off discernment, to never replace HIS voice with any other and that I was injured but in the repair shop. Where I was suppose to be.

And I do pray for his deliverance cause he may have gotten off track, but when he returns humbly to the Lord, he can be a GREAT, loving, caring genuine God-guy (IF and when he straightens out).

Oh Kit I will join you in prayer for Jill.

Not really sure how it turned into a food fight -

But Rummie thank you for posting this. What a gorgeous story about a wonderful woman. That is a lovely sharing post Rummie posted and I am richer for hearing it. The other version- Thanks for posting another version because I liked seeing the "period" looking kids - it took me back in time.

Thanks so much for this story.. I am speechless... Now SHE was a true hero.

Have you ever joined a site that charged money?

Thanks for sharing

Just prayed with a friend...

Ah, I just prayed for the pastor she is just a lonely old broad like myself. God help her find love. God help Raj find true love. Mend his heart and remind him of the loving Jesus who died on a cross with him in mind. Thank God for deliverance for all concerned. Bless his sons and "daughters". May they find a wonderful life in "Montana".

Ahh, who knows why we go goofey. But I know Jesus delivers "goofey".

Thank you Jesus, deliver us from "goofey".

David, a minister I had been getting to know, just went into the hospital with renal failure. He is a Baptist preacher with wonder insights, he writes poetry, has great teachings and loves God with all his heart soul mind and strength.

Please pray for his healing

Thomas must have had some of the braun laced with hippie LSD because things were far from over.

The next day we met in the BRC at HQS and their were tapshoes all lined up for all of us to wear. LCm had a great idea. Just like when learning a language one must speak it, he thought we should all answer him in "dance" and it may help his performance. Craig said "you will be a greasespot by morning" and one of the girls began high kicking in defiance. Thomas seeing "colors" walked into the high kick and was knocked unconscience. For the rest of the thread he laid on the side with Howard praying for him - to no avail... He might have to be buried by the fountain next to Daffy Duck and....

Rosalie said, "LCM I want to talk to you about this homo purge. I think you have gone too far suggesting that Don and Howard have a thing going...What is wrong with you? You will not allow the male corps handle cucumbers or nuts, in the kitchen, and the girls are not allowed to bake with cherries. You are out of your...."

:)

Thanks to my friends who have called and written - I love you.

Listen, this idiot just caught me at my bottom. He KNEW I was at a low and moved in for the kill. Now, that I have my "legs" back, I would have not given him the TIME of day. Washing my hair would have been a better use of my time and I would have never been upset that a selfish weirdo and I did not work out. It was a gift from God we parted!! If he called now, I would not even pick up the phone. If he came to see me, I would not open the door.

And if he tried NOW what he tried then - a few days after my husband and I split? I would not have been interested. He is NOT my type. At the low point, I was thankful for a friend -- that was the open door.... Not interested in his type. I like guys with a great sense of humor, who are intelligent, caring, love God and "genuinely" care about me. He was NOT a keeper, he was a toss back... He pretended to be what I wanted. I would have caught on in about 5 days if the timing had been different.

So, either he knew EXACTLY what he was doing - and picked a person at a low point to destroy OR he went after a broken person because he does not have what it takes to "win" the heart of a "healthy" woman. Either way, I was temporarily pathetic - he continues to be. How do I know? If a person KNEW they did what they did to "hurt" someone - a person really knowing and teaching Jesus would have called to apologize. So, I bet it continues...

"He" has an associate pastor who is a woman who told him she "loved him with ALL her heart" when she found a picture of me in his desk. I said, "Throw the picture out if it is going to cause trouble." He responded, "She can't hurt me, do you know HOW MUCH STUFF I HAVE ON HER?" What kind of genuine, Jesus loving man thinks like that? He should have sat down with her and suggested she go to another church or straighten her out... not begin to develop a way "to hurt" her if she caused trouble. Geeezzzz.

Just like TWI never confessed they hurt a lot of people with sexual misconduct and nor did they denounce that kind of teaching. Yet, they claim to be kinder and really living the WWJD life style. Actions speak louder than words. Where is the apology? Naw, the cover-up is probably just better. IMO

Thanks again, my friends. I love you.

Twinky - they do not do refunds and how do you screen for an alcoholic? You can only do criminal and bankruptcy - I think

I know George I was waiting for your post on marital bliss, just kidding. I know. ((you))

Mstar - WOW like a mail order bride?

Yes, it is one thing to talk about marriage in under 6 months - it is not real prudent to do it.

Anyone out there with a success story - or horror story?

My boss has a son who met his wife on a Jewish network. They are HAPPY.

Poor Lori - miserable and paid for the site, and paid for it in misery and she paid for the divorce.

In pursuit of love

I have a friend named Lori. She is a wonderful Christian woman who survived a 14-year marriage to an alcoholic. A typical drunk who was selfish, mean, disruptive, unavailable and mean. They divorced and after a couple years she wanted to meet a “Christian” man with whom she could be safe in his companionship.

She joined a dating service at the tune of $1500 for a membership. (Were told) They screen the best they can and allow you to gaze at the other members’ profiles. She was contacted by a man who was a member for a couple years and his membership was about to expire in a week. This man “Rick” told her he believed she was “the one” and they called, hung-out and dated in a whirlwind romance – then married. He told her he was a non-drinking, non-smoking church-going, God-loving man. They dated via going to church. He appeared to be "the one".

The week after they married she then saw all he was able to hide. He was a worse alcoholic than the other. He broke down doors to try and beat her as she escaped into the night from windows. She had to come to work to sleep in the animal hospital and wore slippers to work as he forced her out into the night. He was a liar with severe problems. He finally confessed he only wanted a “mother” for his “f’ing son”. After 4 years of a worse nightmare she is divorced from him. She is a broken hearted, disillusioned mess.

Beware of the people with smiling faces – they may have evil in the closet.

After seeing the movie "He is just not that into you" I think technology can be even worse as it brings you MORE people who lie (as well as who do not - I guess)