Dot Matrix

Gosh Long Gone

Seeing it all laid out like that I guess I am not so understanding of Olds.

He seems to change the words people say and then gripe about them and it is not what is being said.

Thanks Long Gone

Olds -- Shame on you! Tssk Tssk! Are you just trying to cause trouble? Cause laid out like it is above sure does make you seem caustic.

Enough of all this, I am off this thread.

God Bless. Ex thanks for having the courage to start this thread, Hope thanks for your bringing up Marsha, Water Garden glad you could finally unload,

to all those that stand up for those of us that lived through the VP nightmare -- Thank you so much.

For those that do not get it -- I hope someday you do.

For those that just want to hurt people for telling the truth -- nothing we can say will help you.

Dot Matrix

[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on February 02, 2003 at 17:03.]

Catsup

I am crying my eyes out reading your story. I also had a cat named Ernie who was hit by a car and died.

Your story was so full of love it made me ache.

I am so sorry for your Ernie but he had your love and you gave him a chance at saftey and happiness. God Bless you.

Again, I am so sorry for your loss.

Dot Matrix

Happy b-day!

Dot Matrix

You'all

I personally, shared what happened to me because Water Garden asked why nobody confronted VP and I knew I did. I knew some people would not believe me. It is okay.

I am sure Ex and Hope and now Water Garden know not everyone will/is going to believe them. It is okay. Olds can not handle all of this right now. I accept that.

To those of you who needed to hear what we had to say GREAT! I am glad we said it.

I do not think the other girls are hurt by a few folks that still have a hard time with all of this. Now if Olds said we enticed VP then I'd go a few 'rounds. He is just struggling with VPW. Heck, VPW and his class probably did marvelous things for OLDS. It did for me.

I saw the idiot naked and it still was hard for me to seperate "this is the guy who taught PFAL" from "this is the naked weirdo in the coach."

Olds, ask God to show you and he will unfold things to you as you can receive them. I am not offended by your questions.

I do know at least one woman that did like VPW. She was an early corps person an Anna Nicole type whose vagina saw more action then the Gulf war. She told me she thought VPW was attractive and she was with him often until he passed her along to Howard. But as QQ (I think) said even if there was one that wanted it, it does not excuse the 100 or so that did not.

So Olds. good luck figuring it all out. I will not try to convince you of any thing. But if I post around your unbelief please do not take offense, I just think your questions have already been answered.

Love to all those that have been through this, believe us who have - when you have not, and those that are just now realizing something in TWI was wrong for a very long time.

Peace

Dot Matrix

[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on February 02, 2003 at 15:14.]

oops something weird happened on my edit

Olds:

I wrote:Olds-

Really, Are you okay?

It is begining to look like Hmmmmm. (as GT said.)

Were you a Rev? Did you fall into the weird doctrine? Have you been in a personal battle over some of your conduct perhaps?

Look, if VP taught you the doctrine of devils and you were caught up in it then you are also a victum.

Are you alright?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then you answered:

Dot Matrix,

Yes I'm fine. But I thought it was interesting you said if I was "caught up in it then I am also a victim". Thank you for trying to comfort me in that you say I was also a victim. But consider this too: if I was caught up in the doctrine of devils, then can't you apply that same logic to VPW? He ALSO was caught up in this doctrine of devils, no? He (VPW) was a victim of the devil too then, wasn't he?

Now this is my response:

Olds

I did apply the logic that VPW was caught up in the doctrine of devils. I went to him personally to show him he was deceived, and I sent him a letter in the letter I told him I believed he was being led/attacked by deceiving spirits, etc.

The difference is HE WAS CONFRONTED and did not stop. He always said it was a Biblical Research and teaching ministry and if you showed him from the word he would change his opinion. He did not.

Other ministers Rev.'s DId stop/change when they saw it from the word and left the illogic of VPW's teachings. A Kansas Rev who got into TWI was then broken into the "free sex" stuff. When he SAW it was wrong he sent an apology letter out to all the women he had hurt! The Bible still meant something to him!

VPW did not elevate the Bible, IMO, above his own narcissistic view of his sexual desires.

So, yes at first I thought he needed reproof. When I did it and Ralph and others and he WOULD NOT listen, then I no longer saw him as a victim of devilish doctrines but one who aliened himself with those doctrines despite the Biblical evidence that they were incorrect.

I no longer saw it as a trick but a decision made as he taught Adam knowingly and willfully disobeyed God and followed Eve.

He KNEW and he choose his evil ways over goodness.

Your kindness toward VPW maybe because you are a better person than I am. Truly, if the Apostle Paul killed a bunch of people in the church today, then repented, I do not have what it takes to forgive him. Maybe over time. Maybe. But VPW, to my knowledge, NEVER said he was wrong or sorry. If he said he was sorry and meant it, this thread maybe different.

If I were a kid, I would rather you be my parent then I. You would stay in their corner.

Not an altogether bad quality. I would be the parent who would turn their kid in, I would be Ted Kivinsky's brother....

Who is to say I am wrong or you are wrong?

I beleive VPW was willfully a monster. You do not. It is okay.

I just thought maybe you were a Rev. and had gotten into that "sex" stuff and were having a hard time with this thread.

[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on February 02, 2003 at 12:12.]

Geez!

Dot Matrix

Olds-

Really, Are you okay?

It is begining to look like Hmmmmm. (as GT said.)

Were you a Rev? Did you fall into the weird doctrine? Have you been in a personal battle over some of your conduct perhaps?

Look, if VP taught you the doctrine of devils and you were caught up in it then you are also a victim.

Are you alright?

Dot Matrix

[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on February 02, 2003 at 9:20.]

May I ask everyone to read Mandii's Thread (post) on the profile of sexual preditors. It is under OPEN

Here is one of the paragraphs:

Now before anyone yells, sexual predators have behaviors in common..the SEX of their preferred prey... chosing the AGE of their preferred prey and the fact that even if a victim never hears of another person besides themselves as falling prey to a sexual predator..the facts are usually that there are victims before them and more will follow. Sexual predators are not men just falling into sin...they just do not have a weakness for the ladies.. but it is a SERIAL mind set in which they constantly prey and seek victims to satisfy the power urge they get over being able to assert themselves upon those they deem as weaker. It is planned...it is habitual..it is their very makeup regardless of how well they present themselves in society; often, the sexual predator will adopt the 'camoflauge' of the pristine citizen in order to hide their very crimes, to escape detection and in which they can continue to operate their crimes upon the unsuspecting.

Dot Matrix

BTW, for those girls who did not drink but were over powered by his title or supposed ability to "heal you" -- It is NOT your fault either.

He used his position as a "MOG" to get, abuse and use "chicks" (that is how he saw us)

Like Ex said it was not about passion or closeness(something like that she said), it was about using someone like a non-entity for his sexual pleasure. In Marsha's story she sees VP after the day she was "with him" and he did not even recognize her.

This goes so beyond adultery. I know people whom have cheated on a spouse -- they were lonely, caught up in the moment -- lots of excuses (AND I am anti - adultery) but this guy used "you can bless a MOG." or "Let me bless you."

Once he asked me how I was keeping myself "tender" (He was referring to sexually satisfied in the corps.) He asked if I masterbated. I said "no" He said how are you staying "sweet." I told him I did not need sex to keep me sweet! Then, I stared at him.

I thought ya know, better men then you have tried with me and I said no, what makes this fat .... old man think I am going to drop my pants and do the deed with him?

Then, I realized he was so "gone" he really thought all women should allow him to touch them - because he thought he was that great!

Narcissistic at the least - the criminal mind at most (or worse).

WG -You dodged a bullet! In a motel room near midnight with a man only in PJ bottoms -- and now you know he was a sexual preditor...

You dodged a bullet!

Dot Matrix

[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on January 31, 2003 at 18:58.]

Happy B-day Maure!

Dot Matrix

Def59

Good Point! I know meetings where he let us go early. They "sold" it as revelation but he was shacking up.

All his croonies did the same thing.

When in PA a limb leader was ALWAYS having meetings. We would have to drive forever, get off work, spend money, etc. So, again the guy called a meeting and we all went! Then, he cancelled it and said some spiritual reason. Later I found he had been banging my corps sister.

It is a hard pill to swallow betrayal is. I still find it difficult to admit I was that hoodwinked. I always thought I was sharper than that. I must admit, I was out there bringing people in with great freqency. Now, not that I am sorry I brought people to God, but I am VERY sorry I brought them to TWI.

I was hoodwinked. It is a huge thing to realize. For me it was painful, stunning and sad but amist all of those feelings there was also deliverance in finally admiting it.

Dot Matrix

Hope:

you have a private topic

Dot Matrix

WG-

My dear lovely child of a loving God, I am so sorry the father of lies touched you in the form of VPW. I know how sick at heart and confused you were. I tried to dismiss all the sh it as well but it kept coming back in my face as fact.

After ALL these years, I came to GS still getting headaches over having to reconcile how VPW could teach a class that DELIVERED me and yet be so messed up himself. I mean, if he taught it he had to believe it and if he believed why was he still doing all this horrible sh it?

When I was in CA. I got to be friends with J_M D__p. He was such a live wire that we hit it off! He was not in real great shape financially or emotionally but Gawd, what an easy guy to like! I fixed him up with J_dy who was his girlfriend for a few years!

Anyway, he told me VPW was diabolically sexually active for years. And J_m had a weird ministry in California. VPW went and met J_m on the pretense to research more word. HE REALLY WENT because J-m's ministry was a "free love" group and VPW was looking for a Biblical ways to document the sexual behavior he was already heavily involved in!

It was here (GS) I learned that VPW wanted to build a ministry. He did not have what it took as far as material to teach but he was dramatic and good at marketing. He studied under BG Leonard and others. BG had a class that was very similar to PFAL but BG was not great at marketing. VPW took the class and remarkably a short time later, in an effort to sell the researched material as his own, emerged to let everyone know he saw the SNOW. HE had Large D's and L's floating over the word receive (delcomai and lombano I forget how to spell the words)

Then, he marketed the stuff as if he researched it. WOW! And we all wonder why we stuck around? The Word was what we needed and I think any of us who knew VPW just could not figure out how the class and his sexual conduct came out of the same man! I know I could not figure it out, that lead me to hang around longer than I should have, because I kept thinking it (TWI) was fixable. And I kept thinking someday the word he taught HAD to deliver him!!! HE TAUGHT IT!

BUt he never had to BELIEVE it. The class drew all of us because the word was so powerful. VPW's enterprise grew as he wanted a financial and powerful base. I do not know if he ever counted on us getting delivered. I got delivered from the word in the class despite the man who taught it. This knowledge helped to deliver me from the final nagging piece of the puzzle:

Why was I delivered via a class that was taught by a man who was so personally tormented?

In the movie (not Biblical) "The Emperors Club"

They had a profound theme that ran through the movie "The end depends upon the begining"

Think about it in light of the Way -- (after seperated God from TWI) I think that little moral is profound....

I hope this helps you.

EX: VPW sent for my company many a time and I was always able to decline his real motives. He always offered me something to drink and I do not drink, so I never drank with him. I think that is what saved me, as others that came forward said there was something in the drinks.

It is NOT YOUR FAULT.

Hope I will e-mail you!

Dot Matrix

[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on January 30, 2003 at 15:50.]

Zix

Thanks. It was a difficult situation to be in. I think the reasons are obvious.

I always felt so bad for Dorthea, how awful for her to know what went on.

Abg- Thank you.

Dot Matrix

The Evan

Thanks I just went back and changed it! I did mean LCM not Chris!

Thanks OCAT

Dot Matrix

Thanks Raf

It is true, and I used to worry if anyone believed me. Some how GS has gotten me to the point that if I tell the truth and people do not believe me -- I do not care anymore.

It is a great blessing to be believed and I am glad you do - but to the doubters I don't care. It happened if you do not believe me -- it still happened and if you do believe me well, cool because it happened.

So, all I can say is

It did happen.

Thanks Raf- Love to you!

Dot Matrix

One year while out WOW our "leader" made us go witnessing. So, My partner and I HATED that forced witnessing stuff, So, we went to the movies! Killed two hours!

Dot Matrix

Okay,

I can validate Hope's story.

I knew about Marsha in PA. I was on staff and she was corps there. I recall her being sweet and bright. Then, the next time I saw her she looked shell shocked. Then, there was a big hush-hush thing where the Limb leader met with her. Then, we were told at limb that SHE HAD DEVIL SPIRITS.

At this time Bon_ie had gone to HQS and returned to tell us Uncle Harry had Frenched her. I was furious and told the Limb leaders that this was WRONG! They tried to placate me by explaining Harry was just trying to make Bon_ie feel like a woman! I did not like that explanation and began to wonder ?could I be in something wrong here? Naw, PFAL was too wonderful and I da mn near witnessed to the whole town I lived in -- I was so excited about the word.

Next, I moved into a Way home. I was sexually attacked by a visiting region leader. I went to 4 Rev. Leader?s about it. They had a meeting. I thought they were going to help me and toss him out of TWI.

But they called an area meeting and told everyone I was possessed with deceiving spirits. I was devastated! I thought, If only I can talk to VPW he?ll straighten this crap out! Thinking this small cluster of people were corrupt - not ever thinking it was wide spread.

I went into the corps and VPW sent for me. I thought now is my chance! Well, I get into the motor coach and he is naked and asked me to do something lewd. I tell him "no" as I properly avert my eyes. I left the coach in shock and disbelief. If all these people covered for the Region leader and VPW is doing the same thing ----mmmmmm then VPW is the reason all the rest are doing it! I could die.

VPW did hit on me personally! I was flabbergasted! I did go to J____n L_____n about the conduct and M_____l F______t and Chri__toph S_____p and I was told to shut up. Then, I was taken from the cool jobs in the corps and placed on jobs where they could ?watch me?.

I kept thinking I could make a difference, turn things around, save the ministry! I went to see Mrs. VPW as I realized she had to KNOW and felt badly for her. I went into see her and told her ?I want you to know I never did anything with him.? (something to that effect.) She grabbed my hand and cried into a kleen-x for about 45 minutes ? no other words were spoken.

I pulled aside a corps buddy and told her about VPW and she said she knew he had gone after her. I said, ?What have we gotten into?? The confusion was PFAL did work for me but VPW was the antithesis of the class he taught. I did not know how to reconcile any of this stuff. I was young and confused. Up until then, I was on fire moving the word over the world. Now, I was so confused. I guess anguish would be an accurate word to describe my feelings.

Found out later from one of the big leader?s wives who has now divorced him, that all those I went to get help from had a meeting in the corps about me and they decided I could not be trusted.

I was dating two guys that "had promise" in the corps and both were led away from me. Both men were set up with women who were more willing to do the things that were going on in secret.

I went and confronted VPW myself and he told me ?what-so-ever things are pure.... Think on these things.?

I went back to my corps friend. She was working on a paper about the sex stuff being wrong. Someone ratted her out and made her stop working on it. We had a long talk trying to figure out how we could stop this "sex monster" from eating up our ministry! It was too big for us to turn things around.

So, I got out on the field and decided I was not going to stick around. That is when the mantle was passed to LCM. I wrote VPW ? one last time and told him that HE was the one tricked by deceiving spirits and the ministry would not survive if he did not straighten things out before he died. I never heard back from him.

Then, came the liberation of Ralph D. He never had gotten into the sex stuff! Even though VF and everyone (almost) else did. A woman went to him about VPW and he said come back with 2 or 3 witnesses and she returned with (I believe it was) 11. Ralph was blown away and asked VF if he knew. He said they all knew but did not tell Ralph because they knew he would not go for it.

I collected money and flew Ralph into California and we had meetings letting people know the truth about ?the secrets?. VPW was like everyone?s weird Uncle. People knew and did not know what to do.

Then, I stood up at a meeting and told what happened to me and a corps guy stood and called me a liar.

I thought, I had enough of this sh it and I stopped trying to fix things in TWI. I decided to fix me!

Only recently have I re-emerged when I heard of GS.

Dot Matrix

[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on January 29, 2003 at 17:26.]

I love this:

quote:

---

"Pay no attention to the Zix behind the curtain!"

---

Dot Matrix

Rottie posted this on the In Search of A Pet thread

quote:

---

You are so lucky you have a husband who loves dogs like that! You should see me and Nico. I have a single bed and we share. Me and my 100 lbs rottweiler. And she snores and farts. Who needs a husband?

---

Now, anyone that IS a huband or HAS a husband has to laugh at that one!

Dot Matrix

Zix-

Now this is freaky. I posted above about how bright you are! I go back to the "open" area for threads and you are talking about intelligence and I saw your IQ.

WOW, you must have never tried pot in your youth!

Dot Matrix

Thanks!

I think you are possibly the most intelligent person I know. You know stars and crashing comets and the components in drugs....

Geez, you could probably write a diet book based on body chemistry.

What is your degree in? Or degrees? You are very bright. So, many times you will post and I feel kinda like I am talking to the President about politics. Out of my element by comparison to some of the things you know.

Dot Matrix

ZIX- Thanks. I do not know if mine is an ace or not It is Bisoprolol generic for Ziac

***I just called the pharmacy and mine has a diuretic in it

Kryslis- You go girl - wear that little bathing suit if you want! At 60 you get to do what you want!

Dot Matrix

[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on January 28, 2003 at 13:11.]

Herbalist

Okay, I am also on Blood pressure meds. I just read they will affect the diet.

What should I do? Other than garlic or celery how do I get the BP under control? Funny loosing weight will help - but the medicine for BP inhibits weight loss ---

So glad I chased my tail for two weeks!

Dot Matrix