Kit Sober

With many thanks to the many precious friends who fulfill the category of "minister" in the world today, officially and unofficially:

Somewhere between the call of God and the hallways of the local hospital there exists a specialist in everything, variously called a "minister, preacher, pastor or clergyman."

He's a hero to his wife, a stranger to his children, a good son to his mother, an 'easy touch' to down-and-outers, a name on the mailing list of hundreds of agencies and organizations, an example to his flock. ...

To some people he's a fun guy; To others he's a stuffed shirt. To some he's a character who's never lived it up. To some he's 'Reverend,' To some he's a guy who has nothing else to do but get ready for a twenty minute sermon once a week. To some he's the person in whose presence you shouldn't curse, drink, or smoke.

To others he's a dear friend, a 'johnny-on-the spot' when death's angel hovers near. He's the one whose ministry continues when a loved one dies. He's the man who can mend marriages but who can't find time to fix his wife's toaster. He's the nice man at church who pats the babies' heads even though he's not running for a political office.

He's the one who marries young lovers, prays with the sick, and buries the dead. He's a financial expert, a public orator, janitor, errand boy, typist, file clerk, writer, public relations expert, professional tea-sipper and punch-drinker, journalist, reformer, evangelist, pastor, business executive, counselor, prophet, bookworm, diplomat, human being, planner, teetotaler, and usually a terrible golfer!

Ministers are found everywhere: preaching in church, listening in meetings, teaching a class, looking at a clock, not looking at a clock, giving invocations, giving benedictions, waiting in maternity wards, sympathizing beside caskets, standing behind pulpits, pleading causes, serving on committees, studying the Bible, playing football with the kids on the vacant lot near the church, staying with someone as they take their final breath, sitting behind a desk, lying underneath a car, standing on the roof of buildings under construction, meditating, dreaming, at home at dinner time, not at home at dinner time, standing before women's groups, delivering addresses, meeting in conventions, diagnosing the world's sickness and prescribing the cure -- Jesus.

There are so many many kindhearted people here, to whom I owe the deepest thanks for your kindness. Thanks so very much.

PFAL expanded foundational syllabus. If someone would make a copy of the syllabus or tell me where I could obtain one, I would sincerely appreciate it. Mine have long since been discarded, and now I am finding I would like to go through and actually verify what I have often as "accepted without question" as "truth" in my brain. Please email me or post if there is a public option to acquire a syllabus. Thanks. Of course I would pay for copying and postage, etc.

I now believe that there is nothing that a person cannot be healed of by the precious name of Jesus and by the power of His precious blood. Especially since God would have everyone saved (made whole). I think that "born of the seed" stuff that vp was so intense upon is rubbish. I think anyone can be saved who comes to the foot of the cross. I think any wound, whether seared over (and hidden from view) our bleeding profusely can be healed by the Lord Jesus.

(I also am so very thankful for the medical doctors and medical staff who perform healing by the work of their hands.)

Excathedra wrote...

question for bible people

last night i was beyond desperate for help and i spoke in tongues . . .

I am most always "beyond desperate for help" and find that any kind of prayer will bring me closer into the presence of the Lord :)/>

Recently I watched Sid Roth's "It's Supernatural" with Tommy Welchel, and since then, have been reading about the Azusa Street Revival (1906-1910). Sid Roth's "It's supernatural" program includes portrayals of what his guest experienced, and during the course of Tommy Welchel's interview there were portrayals of William J Seymour, the preacher who led the Azusa Street Revival. Before he would preach/teach/minister, he set on a bench in the warehouse there with a wooden box on his head . . . I have been doing that . . . I don't have a wooden box, but I got a cardboard box that was big enough for my head. And just sitting in my bedroom praying with that box on my head helps keep away the various distractions and helps me get into the praise and worship quicker and deeper than without the box. I think praying is a "whatever works" deal. Speaking in tongues is good, but William Seymour knew he was called to lead the revival and was ministering and doing what the Lord told him to do before he received the fullness of the Holy Spirit. There have been many wonderful Christians who have walked with the Lord who did not speak in tongues. I never read or heard that Billy Graham speaks in tongues, but he certainly has done wonderful things to bring the kingdom of heaven to earth.

It seems that both that twi and ex-twi people are easily prejudiced against people who don't speak in tongues, as though speaking in tongues was the dividing line between godliness and ungodliness, between approaching the throne of God and being denied access to Him. However, since the Lord looks on the heart, truly. And the Lord is the true Judge of the heart. It seems most foolish to venture such a judgment.

I go with "whatever works." For me right now it's sitting with a box on my head. And I am trying also to build up a routine such as Daniel had of praying like this three times a day. I watched the PureFlix movie, "Daniel," and Holy Spirit brought into mind the children's fellowship song, "Daniel was a man of Prayer" [daily prayed he three times].

I definitely agree that developing a consistent prayer fellowship with the Lord is vital keeping us in the confidence and faith of Daniel who was so faithful that God was able to shut the lions' mouth. Daniel lived in a faith realm where "fears could not alarm him" and I think that had to do with the consistent prayer routine he and Ananiah, Hazariah, and Mishael (commonly known as Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego) had.

This may be the most articulate quote regarding a man's responsibility before God I know (This is a quote I am working on memorizing and implanting in my heart.)

When a man sees that his neighbour hates him, then he must love him more than he did before to fill up the gap.

Rabbi Rafael

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I don't know if I ever actually met Skip Mesquite, I might have, but the song, Don't Stop Speaking, by Takit, is, without a doubt in my humble opinion, among the top 10 Christian songs of all time.

I remember at least one Rock of Ages, and a few other various Way events, they'd end with that song playing. Come to think of it, what a fantastic song to promote Witnessing and sending out the WOW Ambassadors. I wish I had bought a Takit cassette back in the day because the last time I checked with the Way bookstore, they apparently don't sell anything from Takit anymore. Ditto with trying to locate a Takit website, no luck.

Fortunately, my memory hasn't left me yet and I can recall in my mind anytime that group played that tune. R.I.P. Skip Mesquite.

I think Takit music may be available . . Don't have current web info, though. (Being deaf, I can't hear any music now, other than what is in the memory jukebox of my heart) but I think it's out there for you.

The Watchman Nee devotional this morning,

For to me to live is Christ. Philippians 1.21.

God does not make you a Christian in the way a person teaches a monkey how to dress, eat, and move. To teach a monkey to live like a man would be such a burden to it that it would rather remain as it is than learn to be a man. Jesus Christ is our life to do everything in us. God never demands Christians to do this or to do that. For Paul says, "For me to live is Christ"—and having Christ living in him, Paul is able to endure beatings, persecutions, many perils, imprisonment in Jerusalem, and transference to Rome. It is not by his being like Christ nor imitating Christ, but by Christ living in him that he finds strength for all such things. As a monkey cannot be transformed into a man, so a Christian cannot imitate Christ.

Watchman Nee often addresses that the grace of Christianity is the working of God from within. As Steve Hill says it, "Grace is not a freedom to sin, but a freedom from sin."

The "cheap grace" which is (and was used most notably used by twi to provide license to sin).

Grace is most precious, in my opinion.:)/>

Terribly sorry,

I just heard about the relationship between a pumpkin's radius and its circumference,

...pumpkin pie...again,

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I am older than a lot of you guys. I was at the Fillmore watching Grace Slick, and Jerry Garcia and other friends. . . When I got into twi I threw out all my music except Brian Bliss-Bev Strick-etc.

(My audiologist is working to try to get me cochlear implants, so I may hear again. Then I will come back and listen to it.)

During the very early 1960s, my high school days beatnik daze of motorcycle trips and after hours club Jimbo's Bop City, etc. etc. I also went to Washington DC because we were going to pray the demons out of that place. A few years later, after UC Berserkeley days dayz, I took "The Class" and trusted that this TWI group was going to help clean up the place. Even though I haven't seen the Pentagon cleaned up yet, I still have hope because God is still the miracle working God Who gave His only begotten son that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life, and I do still love this USA place. :)

Moving on. . . . update:

Elizabeth Smart has written a book about her healing from the abduction she endured for 9 months when she was 14 years old. I think we similarly had our innocence stolen in twi and similarly we were abducted and raped by twi, spiritually, emotionally, financially, as well as the physical rape that some endured).

I was working frequently in Wendover NV at that time Elizabeth Smart was abducted (you would be amazed at how many LDS people work in the gaming industry).

From an interview in "Breaking Christian News" today with Elizabeth Smart, which I thought had applicability to our moving forward from the hurt and dirt we experienced in twi:

The day after she was reunited with her parents, Elizabeth's mother told her, "This man has taken so much from you…he's taken 9 months of your life from you that you will never get back; the best punishment you could give him is to be happy—to move forward with your life and to do what you want to do. Because, by feeling sorry for yourself and by holding onto what's happened to you, you're allowing him to steal more of your life away, and he doesn't deserve another second."

Also, I keep coming here kinda like Lou Rawls sang, "...I left my heart in San Francisco. . ." I left my heart with so many many people during my twi years, and this is one place I feel comfortable where I can keep in touch with some of those precious loved ones. Also people who had shared twi experiences can relate to laughing a dumb jokes, having a WOW mobile (and not understanding that having a beat up junk heap of a car was not a great "witness of believing"). So many things are laughable now. And also so many things are heartbreaking now, and it's just nice to have a place to go where people kinda "understand where you are coming from" really. . Other people who loved the same folks (Michael Martin, Del Duncan, Howard and Jane Yeremian, Ralph and Joanne Anderson, etc. etc. So many wonderful folks who really did "show us The Way" (of Jesus Christ).

Thanks. Nice perspective I think.

Steven Hill is one of those people who not only helped implement "The Brownsville Revival" of the 1990s, but has remained true and faithful since being saved 30+years ago.

Avalanche is his latest book, and is a heart throbbing revelation of what Christianity should be personally. He compares the state of the Church in a snowballing parable of an Avalanche.

Below are quotes from where I am reading now, and I was thinking maybe someone else here at this Greasespot Cafe might be another prodigal, hoping to be shown the way to (or back to) the heart of the Lord Jesus.

. . . They hit some rocky terrain on the ski slopes of life. Unprepared, they take some tumbles, acquire some bruises, and then begin to question this whole thing called "Christianity." Next thing you know, they throw in the towel, saying that this Christian stuff is too tough. It costs too much. It requires too much effort. They just can't live the life. Nobody told them they had to change, to repent of sin, or that it would require effort on their part to grow in the things of God. So they disappear. Sadly their Bible ends up on the shelf, collecting dust. Let me remind you of something I talked about in chapter 3: although some churches are prepared to take care of new converts, the danger comes when these new believers are not given the whole story. The crucified life is a challenging life. .

The Bible warns us that Satan appears as an angel of light: “Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works” (2 Cor. 11:14–15).

We’ve all heard the heart-rending stories of the girl who married the man of her dreams, only to discover he’s a violent spouse abuser; the man who takes on a business partner, only to find out that the partner steals him blind; the elected officials who break all their campaign promises; the children lured away by a sex offender; the people in authority—perhaps a counselor, an educator, a coach, or a church leader—who sexually violate the very ones they pledge to protect and help. These are all examples of Satan disguising himself as an angel of light.

Meet Theresa. She was one of the most intelligent girls in our youth group. She was a few years older, in her late twenties, but we all enjoyed listening to her wisdom. She knew the Bible better than all of us. We had regular fellowship meetings in which she always had something to say. She was a spiritual dynamo. But then she disappeared. A few weeks went by, no Theresa. Then a couple months, still a no-show. Several of us who were leading the Bible study became increasingly concerned. We hunted her down and found that she had joined another Bible study. Everything she shared was not only biblical but also exciting. Her face radiated with Jesus. We were saddened that she was gone but happy that she was with another good, strong group of believers. Two years went by. On a Sunday morning she came walking in the back door. Several of us greeted her, but something was different. Her joy was gone.

Her smile was fabricated. It didn’t take long before we realized that Theresa had joined a cult. She had lost everything—her savings account, her car, many of her possessions, all gone. She began to pour out one of the most heart-wrenching stories that I had ever heard. I was a young Christian, growing in God and also learning the deceptive ways of Satan.

For Theresa, everything at the beginning was so beautiful. There was enough truth, like snow, to cover the ground. What was underneath were demonic ideas that would destroy that young life. She had almost sold out completely when deep in her spirit she felt that the end would be devastating. Jesus was speaking to her. She wept and wept years of tears. She came home that day and was a warning to all of us that just because something looks right doesn’t mean it is right. Oh, did I tell you that Theresa was a graduate of a major Bible school and had a degree in theology? Even the most spiritual, intelligent Christians can be led astray.

Hill, Steve (2013-03-12). Spiritual Avalanche: The Threat of False Teachings that Could Destroy Millions (pp. 72-73). Charisma House. Kindle Edition. .

another word of Forgiveness from Brother Andrew's Open Doors

FORGIVE YOUR ENEMIES

Hatred of her enemies is something Takoosh Hovsepian, the wife of an Iranian pastor murdered in 1994, no longer has. She says, "I've learned a lesson at God's University about how to love your enemies."

As a teenager, Takoosh prayed that she might be allowed to marry a pastor, so that she could spend her life in the service of God. Her wish was fulfilled, but the way would not be easy.

Her husband, Pastor Haik Hovsepian, was forty-eight years old when one day he did not come home. After twelve days, it became apparent that he had been killed at the behest of the Iranian government. About that time, four other Iranian pastors were also murdered in a cowardly way. They refused to sign an official declaration that they would not evangelize among Muslims.

In Iran, ninety-eight percent of the population is Muslim. After the Islamic Revolution of 1979 in particular, the problems for Christians became increasingly great.

Takoosh says, "During the revolution, hundreds of people threatened to set fire to the churches, which fortunately did not happen. The Islamic government does not want Muslims to go to church and evangelism among them is forbidden."

Pastor Hovsepian held important positions in the Iranian church. On various occasions, he stated that he was willing to go to the utmost for his faith and for the church. His wife reflects, "Haik repeatedly said, 'We don't have to be afraid. We must trust in God.' But in my heart, I was afraid. Haik was full of love for people, even for his Muslim neighbors. They were welcome at the church; they knew that he would help them even in times of difficulty."

The day that Haik left to collect a friend from the airport and never came back is deeply engraved in the memory of the widow and her children. At the police station, the eldest son, Joseph, was only shown a photo of his father. According to the police, the body of Pastor Hovsepian had been found in an alleyway in Teheran.

Takoosh says, "I only had hatred in my heart, hatred for my enemies who had murdered Haik. I was not able to forgive them. I prayed with my lips, 'God, give me the strength to forgive,' but before I prayed, in my imagination I saw myself throwing mud at them. But one day a miracle happened. God taught me how I could forgive my enemies. I was asking for something which on the deepest level I did not want to ask for. But gradually, in a process of ups and downs which took months, God gave me the strength to pray more and more with my heart for those who had murdered my husband. God answered this prayer."

"Then I was no longer praying only with my lips, but from the depths of my heart. I had learned not only to trust in God and to lean on Him, but also how I can forgive my enemies."

It took me many years to get over the thoughts that there was no life outside of twi. Now I can easily agree with you that there is much life of the Lord Jesus outside of twi, but that was not the case when I was overcome with that cult mentality of "there is nothing worth anything outside of twi and faithfulness and loyalty to twi is the most important thing in regard to loyalty to Jesus Christ."

I am so very thankful to be out of twi, and able to find, as you most easily find, that people outside of twi love the Lord Jesus Christ and His Bible and other people (from whom I was cut off for for the 20+ years in twi).

I got this utube link in a prayer list email, and I thought you would like to see that The Way is still found outside of twi, and that twi has not got their thumb over everything that is endeavoring to glorify The Way, the Lord Jesus. Sorry I couldn't figure out how to get the utube to appear here like some more wonderful posters.

what are we fighting about ? i can't remember. maybe that's why i still come here lol that was a funny

i miss people, don't you?

Sometimes my brother and I would squabble because we didn't have anything else to do. (I would give anything to have another squabble with him.) From what I have read, there is no squabbling in heaven.

Being able to disagree with people was such a precious thing here at the Greasespot Cafe (and Waydale and Trashnet). So sorry the political forums closed. I thought they were so very heaing.

Good to recognize and be aware of. (Knowing the truth of a situation truly is free-ing.)

I was a victim of bullying at my last job. Reading this helped me.

Thanks for this. :)

Thanks. Many thanks. Comforting words. Thanks so much :)

Thanks so very much. I am still in Nevada. I was so worried. (I was afraid my fine would be more than my social security. Thanks so very much.

Thanks so very much. I am still in Nevada. I was so worried. (I was afraid my fine would be more than my social security. Thanks so very much.

I had looked previously on the web to see if Rosh Hashana was on September 11, 3 bc, and could not find that information.

During my Rosh Hashana research this year I found a jewish website where I could ask questions, and posed that question, but haven't received an answer.

An interesting bit of information is that the Rosh Hashana Jewish tradition includes that Rosh Hashana is the anniversary of the creation of Adam and Eve, which makes the birthday of Jesus Christ on this day more intriguing.

This is the website where I was looking: chabad.org

I have been watching Sid Roth, "It's Supernatural," for a few years. (Lightsource gives many of his shows with captions, and utubes has his shows with the automatic captions).

I agree with what Cahn is saying. BUT But I hope and pray that the USA comes back to the Lord, as so many many people have been praying.

Today is Rosh Hashana, the Head of the Year biblically, and the beginning of the Lord's High Holy Days, and many people are praying and fasting in this regard. Capitol Hill Prayer Partners, United Prayer Network, Mahesh Chavda's group. The Pope and Billy Graham have called for prayer and fasting. Reinhardt Bonnke, an evangelist from Africa, has a planned evangelical crusade for USA, and Peter Gammons, a British evangelist, has completed a crusade here. And prophecies abound for the "Third great awakening" in USA. Kenneth Copeland has come out with his belief that America was built by God Almighty to provide not only a safe haven and refuge for His people, but also a home base for sending out His kindness into the world to relieve suffering (orphanages, water, food, schools, job training, housing as well as the gospel). Charisma Magazine's cover story this month was the salvation of America. I believe the USA is a battleground, but that the Holy God, the Holy Lord Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are fighting for the USA with Their heavenly resources.

One of Sid Roth's recent interviews was with Dr Francis Myles, an evangelist from Africa, who had a revelation from the Holy Spirit that Obama would be saved and speaking in tongues, even though it meant the loss of most of his supporters. And a few days ago I read that Oprah got radically saved at a TD Jakes event.

The Blood of Jesus has flowed thick in USA, and I have great hope and faith for God's glory to be magnified here. The adversary has been able to kill off many wonderful Christian people, but there are also many left who are defending God's Word in this place. If you have seen any of Steve Hill's recent stuff, you know he is even more intense and speaking from an even greater depth of the presence of the Holy Spirit than he was during the Brownsville Revival, which was intense.

I had an email from Hobby Hobby that they were opening 25 new stores (I emailed them because I read that the owner was closing alll the stores).

I think the pressure is on and getting more severe, but I also believe that God's people, when tested, will squeeze out His kind kind of kindness, which is the victory God is looking for.

I hope and prayers for USA to be clothed in glory.

Brother Andrew is still alive and cooking. You can contact him through Open Doors.

Forgiveness is at the heart of all Christianity I think. Our relationship with the Lord -- We have been forgiven. And I would hate to be found as that servant in the story of the servant who was forgiven of so much,and then would not forgive someone who owed him a much smaller amount.

I was thinking about Cain and Abel, and maybe that was the difference in why Cain's offering was not accepted: Abel's offering included the life/sacrifice of his sheep, which carries repentence, while Cain's offering was just a few more tomatoes. (I will try this out over in the Doctrinal forum)

I recently lost a very precious Christian friend who smoked and thought he was immune to cancer cause he prayed and was tight with the Holy Spirit -- he had been healed of severe hip bone deformity and led a home fellowship (not twi related), and another dear friend and neighbor has just been put into hospice due to her cancer coming back with final vengeance. She's was still smoking until she went into hospice. It's a terrible way to die. And the people who love you are the ones who suffer so by the loss of their precious loved one, not to mention the bills left behind. Smoking is such a terrible waste of life. Just makes me cry.