laleo

Attractive couple, but, geez, Goey, would it have been that much trouble to shave and put on a fresh shirt? Oh, that's right, you're from Texas. Never mind. Thanks for posting the photos. You both look very happy.

Belle: This is the best I could come up with. Couldn't find out much about this "poet," but his style is strikingly similar to Wierwille's, wouldn't you say?

Thanks, ex10. You know, I was trying to come up with some coping tips to suggest to jewel to help her navigate through the contentiousness, and even appreciate it. Any suggestions?

templelady: Despite the fact that I was quoted out of context on your thread, I know you know that I have nothing but disgust for the filth who aided in the ruin of your family, and nothing but admiration for you for having endured what you did and for coming out of it with your humanity intact. If I ever have occasion to hear you on one of your public speaking tours, I'll be in the one in the front row, dead center, applauding the loudest.

Okay, gotcha. Just didn't know if the switch from first person singular ("I") to plural ("we") was deliberate, making it more of a teaching than just your experience. That's the part that made me pause. I'm probably just not used to your grammar. Regardless, I enjoyed reading it. Edited to fix my own grammar. :)-->

WhiteDove: I enjoyed reading your testimonial. Had I read it at another time, on another thread, I may have been a little put off by it, maybe because it doesn't fit well with my own (post-Way) theology, not that I have much of one. Your last paragraph, where you switched from "I" to "we" -- which reads a little like an altar call -- makes me wonder if you feel an obligation to convince others of the rightness of your beliefs. I think it's great that things worked out so well for you with working the hours that fit better with your schedule. I wonder if part of your success is due to the confidence you have that you will succeed, sort of that "letting go and letting God" thing where you just turn things over to the universe and trust that all will be well.

Bluzeman: Your help in keeping this thread on topic is appreciated. :)--> Long Gone: You strike me as the quintessential pragmatist. Because of that, you don't seem to carry some of the emotional baggage that others might. If anyone has a recipe for lemonade, I would expect it to be you. So what is the "little, if any"? jewel: "I do wish everyone could just get along but that is just wishful thinking." Do you mean here? On this thread? If so, don't be discouraged. We really are getting along, despite what it seems. Thanks for your post. satori: Yeah, I can't come up with much as far as the "biblical research" goes either, except maybe just the fact of becoming familiar with the Bible. I'd lean more towards giving The Way credit (if I'm going to give it credit at all) for building community. Not perfectly, not always, but occasionally getting it right. Brother Speed: Welcome to GreaseSpot, if you're new here. If not, welcome back. I felt guilty for awhile, too, after leaving. But then sometime in the 90s, an old friend who attended the ROA on a whim gave me an update, and that's when I knew there was nothing to go back to.

The word for that is "harassment."

rascal: I enjoyed some things about it, and miss some things about it. Whether overall I would say it was worthwhile, I don't know. The jury is still out, but I'm leaning toward, "yes, it was worthwhile." Then you've misunderstood this thread, and you also don't know me. If you're speaking specifically to me, I am not oblivious to the harm because I experienced some of the harm. This thread isn't intended as a whitewash, it is an honest evaluation (different for each individual) of what was gained, if anything. I have no argument with those who say they gained nothing. But I do have an argument with those who say they gained nothing, so therefore there was nothing of value for anyone else, either. Who implied that the bad wasn't so bad? Not me. And not anyone else on this thread that I can tell. In fact, just about everyone has acknowledged the bad. The central question of this thread is that despite the bad, did you find something good? In which case, no one has cause to be grateful for anything in this life, because there will always be pain and disappointment in this world. Understand something, rascal. Not only was my "fellow christian hurt grievously," so was I. And so were most of the others who have posted here. But the story doesn't have to end there. This is a sincere question, if you feel like answering it, because it's something I honestly don't understand. If you're entitled to your anger (which you are, and which I don't question), why isn't the next person just as entitled to feel grateful? In other words, if I examine my time in The Way and find something of worth, how does that diminish you, if you've examined your time there and have found nothing of value? My approval or disapproval isn't the point. Threads have topics, otherwise there wouldn't be any point in starting a new one.

Wayfer Not!, Thanks for your posts. I've enjoyed hearing your perspective, and can relate to much of what you say. Linda: Ditto. coolchef: So what are you doing with those bananas? Oldiesman: The tacky decorations you hang in your posts are a distraction. They make your posts so difficult to read, it isn't worth the effort.

rascal: Do you have any idea how offensive you are? You are speaking for others. You are telling others what happened to them (whether it happened or not). You are telling others what to think about it (whether they think it or not). You are telling people what they were exposed to (whether they were exposed to it or not). And, worst of all, you do a disservice to those who stumbled, those who fell, by telling them they can't get back up. To listen to you, anyone who experienced any misery while in TWI is stuck in it and with it forever. The only remedy, the only hope of redemption, is to wallow in vindictiveness, to destroy what you imagine destroyed you. "The bitterness of drought." If that's where you are and want to stay, so be it. But don't drag me there with you, because I'm not going. Consider this: There are people who were/are in TWI who listened to the same teachings you did and did not become "rampant fornicators and adulterers." They did not abuse their own or anyone else's children. And when "forced" to have an abortion, turn in a schedule, give more and more money, take more and more classes, they said "NO." What made the difference, rascal? What was inside of that person that helped them rise above? What did they do to "get over it"? That's what this thread is about. It isn't yet another rehashing of all that is wrong, all that went wrong, all that was never right. It is a place for others to express the goodness they found there, IF they found it. You can post on this thread if you want to, but you are going to hear MY opinion, too. I hope you're ready for it.

I don't doubt that and I never said otherwise. Like I said, I wasn't speaking to your experience. Let me explain the purpose of this thread. It isn't to say that everyone got something good out of TWI, or that everyone has found something worthwhile in their experience. If you haven't, you haven't. I'm not saying you have or you should. (Plus, I'll concede that I was never involved in TWI during the Martindale years, so I can't speak to the level of social control and fear that others endured.) But others have found something good, and I'd like to hear what they kept. If you don't like the topic, fine. But that's the topic. Also, just out of curiosity, have you returned to the Baptist church? It sounds like you had a very good experience there.

That made me laugh, def. Yeah, I was wondering if GS could tolerate a thread like this. We'll see.

Are myths necessarily a bad thing? I mean, even if you don't believe in the facts of the myths -- like whether those things really happened -- have you ever used the message as a street map to find your way through life? I agree that the world is harsh, but don't you ever look for something to help navigate through it?

Belle: While this probably doesn't speak to your experience, I once knew someone in The Way with a Baptist background whose favorite verse was the one that says that God will never leave us or forsake us. She said that her Baptist upbringing led her to believe that whenever she sinned or even made a mistake, God would literally desert her, and the thought filled her with terror. For her, believing in a God who didn't demand perfection, who didn't punish every offense, was something worth preserving. Abigail: I think most people in The Way were normal. In fact, they were among the kindest people I've met before or since. Not that there weren't more than a few "control freaks and boundary jumpers" (like Bramble pointed out), but I experienced a lot of kindness, too. I wonder if they also weren't drawn by the kindness, except their purpose was to exploit it (whether they realize it or not).

def59: I'm sure this would make for an interesting debate in the Doctrinal section, should you choose to start a thread there. I have no doubt most of us can come up with lists of ideas and beliefs that have changed post-TWI. What I'm most interested in is hearing what, if anything, you have preserved from the experience (hopefully, after thoughtful evaluation).

Mr. Hammeroni: No one taught me the Greek alphabet. I missed out. I don't have those nightmares, either. Thank God we've been spared, huh? Pirate: Really? Nothing? Nothing at all? mj412: "I really learned I can not fix other people and their problems and to take care of my own first and foremost." That was a big one for me, too. Good lesson. Oakspear: I learned that I can live with just about anyone, after what I had to put up with in Way Homes, WOW families, and such, which has definitely helped me over the past couple of decades. So, thanks. More later.

bliss: I learned organizational skills, too. I just don't use them. Somehow, after I left, genetics and temperament took over, and I've abandoned all hope of keeping to any sort of schedule. But it's good to know (and be impressed by) how others manage to stay so organized. That "positive thinking" stuff has helped me from time to time, too. I'm (usually) able to pull myself out of a funk. Maybe not immediately, like we were expected to do in Twig, but eventually. Juan Cruz: I'm not comfortable with public speaking, but I do well in small groups. If I attend any small group for any period of time, eventually I manage to be in charge, if only because I fall back on those Twig leading skills, and find a way for each person to participate. Speaking of which, do you have any book recommendations along the lines of Traveling Mercies? Last fall I ended up joining a group that was reading A New Kind of Christian (don't bother with it, if you haven't read it, or at least I wasn't impressed). We did Lamott next, then Blue Like Jazz (if you haven't read it, it tends a little more toward conservative Christianity -- "Lamott on testosterone" the book jacket says -- but was a good read). We're now close to being ready for something else. What's next? Something contemporary, if you have any thoughts.

Did you get your attention to detail (close reading skills) from The Way? Or were you already predisposed to it? By the way, thanks for regaling my daughter with your Harry Potter facts. She thinks you're brilliant.

So good to see you, ex10. It's been awhile. Yeah, every now and then I shock my kids with a confession. But mostly they try to protect me, as if I haven't seen and done it all already. Did your kids make the transition with you? My oldest was too young (she only has two memories of The Way, both from the ROA; one, the rides on the "mystery train," and the other is the smell). My youngest two weren't born yet.

satori: If you're improved now, comparatively speaking, maybe I should be glad I didn't know you then. I shudder to think . . . Actually, living in the here and now is a gift, and I like it a lot better than living for the hereafter (not that I ever really did). A couple of things got me to thinking about this. The first was a minor thing. Last week or so, I was driving to work obsessing over some minor crisis, and a Bible verse came to mind. It was just enough to help me look at things from another angle, and shift perspective. I knew right then that all was well, and everything would turn out okay, and it did. The second is too complicated to explain, but it involves the role of cults in postponing forgiveness (I was thinking of Cindy Sheehan), and how cults might even soften the blow of a loss, and help the person who is grieving keep his life organized until he's ready to face life -- which isn't necessarily an entirely bad thing, although it likely adds another layer of betrayal. Anyway, even with that in mind, people often find transcendence in the whole experience and become maybe more compassionate, or more tolerant, or more aware for having experienced it all.

Is that because it takes one to know one? ;)--> Anything else that helped you out?

Belle: Thanks for your post. How is your life better for having been in The Way? In other words, what has improved in your life as a result of something you experienced and/or learned during your involvement? And I don't necessarily mean that you still agree with the teachings or anything like that, but how are you better off because of it?

According to the introduction page, one major purpose of GreaseSpot is to "tell the other side of the story" -- what was really happening in the backrooms while you were sitting in the front row studying the flipcharts and and practicing cliches. And it's been a real eye-opener, hasn't it? But is that the entire story? Some say it isn't. They have another "other" side of the story, and that is the story of how they've learned from and used their Way experience to make a better life for themselves. That's right. A better life. Are you a better person for having lived the life you've lived? I hope so. And I'd like to hear about it. What are your success stories? (If you don't have one, this is not the thread for you. Move along, please.) Was it all suffering, loss, and bitter defeat? If not, what did you gain? How did you find what was good? This isn't a thread for dogma or doctrine. Nor is it a whitewash. But if beneath the anger and disappointment, the disillusion and despair, you've found that polished gem among the debris, I'd like to hear about it. If you've made lemonade out of the lemons, this is the thread for you. Any takers?

Really? How come I'm stuck with my same handle? They can change their handle whenever they want? I want a refund, too. And a new tee-shirt.