Belle

My church starts this week. I'm pretty excited about it as I've already read the book and I'm fairly new to the church.

They're very excited and have been wearing their "Got Purpose?" t-shirts once a month to the contemporary service for a while. My t-shirt should be in this week.

The church wants people to participate so bad that the books and study aids are free. When did TWI ever do THAT???

AHAT the kick off sounds like a blast.

Wayfer Not! I love the idea of getting together with other churches. We are doing ours simultaneously with other churches in the area, but not combining groups. That is really cool.

I pretty much agree with everyone's points here and I'll add that I think VP was a very good ACTOR - not a very good teacher.

Just because people learn to recite memorized lessons does not mean that they've been taught.

Just because people have retained the teachings doesn't mean he was a good teacher, that could be attributed to many other variables, such as what Goey mentioned regarding the status of expert that was thrust in our face enough that we eventually believed it.

Ya know what's odd about this is that I remember being taught that now that during PFAL now that CW brings it up, but in TWI2, we were taught that if we were spiritually mature enough we could SIT all the time, even while we were talking, listening, making decisions, sitting in meetings at work, witnessing, etc.

We should, according to them, endeavor to be speaking in tongues all day and if we did it right, we would be able to carry out our normal activities at the same time because SIT functions in a separate part of the brain.

I was talking about this with a friend just the other day.

CW, I agree with you and just to add to what you posted:

We talk about kids seeing God as an old man with the long, white beard and say they have matured to recognize God as spirit, but we never grow past that.

Isn't it "God in Christ in You"? Then holy spirit and Holy Spirit are one in the same. We have God in us and that's the source of our inner voice (barring any emotional or psychological imbalances).

Think of God as the ocean and we're droplets of water that make up that ocean. That's why Jesus Christ said, "My Father and I are one" and "I am in Him and He is in me". When you look at the Bible with this perspective things make more sense than they did to me when I was trying to make VP's interpretation fit into that glove.

Regardless of how good the program is (which is debatable), they will eventually have 1 WC person for each fellowship. If the need isn't there for additional leaderships, why continue the obviously failing program?

FLIRTINIS

I'm single what do you expect?

2 Parts Champagne

2 Parts Vodka

1 Part Pineapple Juice

Although I have found this one on the web and haven't tried it yet, but it does sound good!

pieces of fresh Pineapple

1/2 oz Cointreau

1/2 oz Vodka

1 oz Pineapple Juice

3 oz Champagne or sparkling

Maraschino cherries wine

Directions

Pour the Cointraeu, vodka, and pineapple juice into a martini shaker and shake.

Strain into a chilled martini glass and top with champagne.

Garnish with a pineapple pieces and cherries on a cocktail pick, and serve.

I found this doing some research on Transcendental Meditation on the web. This guy had a bad experience much like ours with a TM group. If you substitue VPW for MMY you get a very good description of the beginning of TWI recovery for some people, including myself. Realizing that the whole foundation of the organization and the teachings were corrupt was the key to the eyes of my understaning being enlightened. How 'bout you?

quote:

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Finally someone was able to successfully help me to question the basic unproven assumption underlying my delusions. This assumption, this belief that had been programmed into me since I first walked into an introductory lecture, was the premise that "MMY is a great spiritual teacher with the highest teaching on the planet." After I finally realized that I had absolutely no basis for believing this, and after I further realized that this was even quite unlikely based on what I had gone through, I was finally able to start recovering. Once I realized that MMY was at best an incompetent spiritual teacher the whole set of delusions based on the indoctrination I'd received, and based on his private "spiritual counseling," began to fall like a house of cards.

Go ahead and remotely psychoanalyze my own weaknesses that may also have contributed to this very real personal tragedy if you want, but don't lose sight of MMY's role in this. He's at best an incompetent teacher, and at worst he's also malicious or crazy. He is completely unworthy of any trust.

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Source of the quote

I like the last part of his quote so much I have edited it to fit with TWI.

If they only had 5 WC students in the last class we can only imagine that the next class is about the same size or smaller. They don't allow people to go there for vacations anymore, not even for a fee. So it sounds like a beautiful money pit and waste of ABS they worked so hard to steal from people.

Why continue with the WC program when there aren't enough indians for these chiefs to rule anyway?

How many people and how much money is needed to run Gunnison?

Just how long can they live on the interest given that they have practically no staff at Gunnison and no interest in the remaining grads to join the elite group?

Membership continues to dwindle as teens get old enough to make their own decisions and so do the coffers, I'm sure. If they have to start dipping into the secret bounty, how long will it sustain them?

If I was counting on TWI to supply my retirement, would you recommend I start scrambling? I mean, IF THEY WERE TO KEEP THEIR WORD that they would take care of me....would I need to worry that they would not be able to?

Oh yeah! Remember lcm teaching about the lesbian thing with Eve and then pausing and saying, "Do you see it? (laugh) "Well, I do!" Like that should be enough for us to believe it. The gall of that man! Sad thing is, that is all that it took for most of us to believe it.

Excellent topic, CW!

The "honor" of teaching was only bestowed upon those deemed "worthy". Nevermind the teaching in the Bible about "the least of these....".

Those teachers were also usually the WC leadership and, although they taught that the greatest leader is the greatest servant, I never saw a WC at the back of the food line or anything else for that matter. Every TWI function I went to made sure that the "people" (aka peons) waited to be called upon to serve themselves after watching all the WC/LC/BC/RC go through the line or have their food served to them.

(sorry, is this a derail? Should I start a new topic?)

I thought this deserved its own thread.

Houseisarockin posted:

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Well the numbers can be low or high determining which side of the podium you are on. Since we know if leader side well it is God keeping the trash from even logging onto their web site. And from the ones below it was our lack of believing big enough not to have made the numbers grow...vision, mind you...we needed bigger vision.

Some at hq would want the folks to come seek their new T-Shirt. 'The Word For All S*asons' with 4 trees. They would probably not want us to seek their huge graduating class of WC for 2004...it was 5. (in new mag, I don't do their site much)

Posts: 256 | Registered: May 09, 2004

JustThinking

I'm fine, really

posted September 19, 2004 00:31

Five?! It was five whole people? (Whole as in total not necessarily as a person) That speaks volumes! Did they use a camera for the picture or did someone just use their cell phone camera? ;-)

Posts: 974 | Location: United States | Registered: November 30, 2003

houseisarockin

Knows the menu too well

posted September 19, 2004 07:00

quote:

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Originally posted by JustThinking:

Five?! It was five whole people? (Whole as in total not necessarily as a person) That speaks volumes! Did they use a camera for the picture or did someone just use their cell phone camera? ;-)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well if it weren't for the 5 leaders standing in front of them a cell phone camera would do the 5 new grads just fine.

The fox said "they are a very promising group". And guitar man Harvey taught them "servant-style leadership".

Run Forest run...run Forest run...

Um...please return to numbers, thank you for the interruption.

Posts: 256 | Registered: May 09, 2004

JustThinking

I'm fine, really

posted September 19, 2004 08:58

That is hysterical! A class of five?!!! Do you think they felt stupid? Do you even call it a "class?" Isn't it more of a study group?

Oh, wait, were there married couples or kids? Five people could just be on family with three kids. Any details?

Sorry for the segue.

Posts: 974 | Location: United States | Registered: November 30, 2003

houseisarockin

Knows the menu too well

posted September 19, 2004 16:00

JustThinking, it has to be an indication of something to only have five new wc ministers. All adults including two males and three females that I'm guessing are under the age of thirty.

I haven't read any articles yet. The titles alone are just so....

The Like-mi*ded Life-Style

All Things Work To*ether for Good

God's Love-The Energizer of Our B*lieving

And Ye Shall be Wi*nesses: A Brief History

The Fo*ndation of Parenting: God's Word

A Poem on The Wis*om of the Oak (one nice thing)

Teaching Hi*hlights for June and July

A*vanced Class 2004 article (nearly 250 students)

A new release besides the T-shirts of an audiocassette of s*ngs, poems and scripture

H*art letters

WC advertisement

Okay Pat I'm leaving now, sorry for the derail.

Posts: 256 | Registered: May 09, 2004

Steve!

Official GSC Rabble Rouser

posted September 19, 2004 17:57

House, I do understand why you put an asterisk in place of a letter in the titles - so that there was no copyright violation.

I am very grateful that you didn't completely (and unnecessarily) obliterate the titles like so:

T** l********* l*********

like so many posters will do, except with names.

Like what you did, it's only necessary to change ONE letter so that the name or title will not show up in a search engine.

Posts: 2947 | Location: Chicago, IL | Registered: June 11, 2002

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Sartori, the key word in my post is most. ;)--> I think the vast majority of people here have learned from their experiences and are a lot sharper and less na? that they were pre-TWI. Some people I don’t hold out much hope for.

CW, interesting comments. Not quite what I was expecting to hear from you. :)--> Very astute observations that I did not even think about.

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Believing=Receiving dressed up in a psychedelic lab coat.

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LOL! You have quite a way with words. I can see how the movie might trigger those teachings, but it didn’t for me. (I have LOTS of trigger words, situations and such.) I think it may be because I have been reading and studying this type of thing since getting out of TWI.

Candace Pert is the woman with the dark hair in the movie. She wrote “The Molecules of Emotion” which is a fascinating book about how the mind, body and emotions interact with each other. Candace Pert discovered the opium receptor in the cells of the human body and has received world-wide acclaim for her truly scientific work .

What she started seeing as she was working on the cells in the body, neuropeptides and how the body takes care of itself at the cellular level is what has lead her to realizing the importance of our emotional well-being to our physical well-being. She has helped document or inspire other scientific experiments that have documented the effectiveness of some alternative therapies that were previously discounted as hocus pocus by the mainstream. It would be too much for me to type out now, and I probably wouldn’t do a very good job anyway. Anyway, having this limited background knowledge and the perspective that maybe, just maybe there’s more to metaphysics that I thought.

Being fresh out of TWI, I’m still working hard on un-learning and redirecting my life. Therapy has been a great resource for me and my therapist couldn’t be better match for my needs. What I have realized since all this started is that I had truly become a different person while I was in TWI and married. I compromised on so many things that I didn’t really know who I was and I wasn’t very happy with myself, but didn’t realize it because I was “living the more abundant life.” I kept telling myself that and, on some level, I believed it. So if believing = receiving then I should have really been living the more abundant life, but I wasn’t.

I’ve learned through Candace Pert’s book and others as well as therapy and friends that I really have to love myself and I really have to have a better attitude and perspective on things. Only when it’s real do we see the real effects.

Example: Before I got involved with TWI and met my future husband I had a great figure, good hair days, a great job and life was good. I mean really good. I hardly got sick and never had headaches (unless it was a hangover). Any bumps in the road could be handled and weren’t too much of a distraction because, well, life is good and we all have to deal with crap sometimes.

Exit TWI and a controlling marriage many years later. I’ve gained almost 80 lbs. I hate my hair and have been through the mill on job situations. I seemed to be constantly battling some sort of physical ailment. (I actually started worrying that I was possessed with the spirit of hypochondria!) I developed a negative attitude about people and how stupid they are. I lost patience with everything. The smallest thing can set me off and I developed a sick, degrading mental dialog with myself. (Much like Marlee Matlin in the movie)

I realized that I have to change my dialog with myself and I have to learn to love myself, warts and all. Think about family members or best friends that you absolutely adore and love with all your heart. They have faults, right? They do things that are annoying, don’t they? They screw up? You love them anyway, don’t you? Then why can’t we do that with ourselves? Isn’t that one of the major keys to peace? Loving ourselves first and then we’re free-er to love our neighbors. After all that verse does say, “love your neighbor as yourself”. We’re special. And we’re important to God and the universe. We just have to remind ourselves of that.

I did get annoyed with some of the aspects of the movie and I totally think that Ramtha chick is wacko, but for the most part, I was seeing things in a way I hadn’t seen or thought of them. I may not subscribe to any of them, or maybe I will. Regardless, I appreciated the stimulation of the grey matter and, especially, getting to hear Candace Pert.

I totally didn’t think about the medicine scene like that, CW. But, I was focused on other aspects of what was going on around the scene. I do hope people don’t go throwing away their medicines because of the movie.

Interesting information, Satori. I saw the movie recently and I didn't get any type of marketing message from the movie. I've even looked around on the website and didn't see anything about that school until I looked up Ramtha.

Rotten Tomatoes has about 1/2 good and 1/2 bad reviews. All pretty extreme in their like or dislike of it.

Me? Personally, I had already been learning some of the things covered in the movie and it was enjoyable and informative to me. I particularly admire Candace Pert and have already read her books, so I was thrilled to see her in the movie. The guy who developed the Unified Field Theory was in the movie and the others I had never heard of. I was interested in what they had to say, but I can't say I considered them experts, but rather, people who have a great deal of experience with the theories presented.

I suppose it's one of those movies that people either really like or really hate and, based on what you say, could lead some people into giving up money and power to this JZ and her school. Thankfully, most of us here are keen enough to avoid those kinds of groups anymore.

What a beautiful town, Shaz! I love all the architecture and historical details on the walking tour. I'm sure Stanley had a great time!

Thanks, Abigail! I think I'll join in too, albeit a bit late. So we fast on Saturday, the 25th?

I have a few Jewish friends who always recognize the Christian holidays by sending me cards, etc. I have never done so for them (too much Waybrain). I think I will start.

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He told me of change orders made on a whim that wasted tons of money and time, and later had to be un-changed because they weren't thought through enough. Seemed a common occurance.

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WOAH! To hear them talk about how they make decisions you'd think they were perfect decision makers because they did think things through thoroughly, almost to the point of "analysis paralysis", and, of course, God was telling them the right decision.

I always heard they accounted for every penny and spent our abundant sharing oh so carefully and wisely.

Yet another myth debunked by first hand testimony. Geez, we were so stupid on the field. I know I believed everything they told us. --> Just pass the kool-aid this way, would ya?

Let me preface my comments by saying that I neither care nor read whatever mj posts.

What I believe happened is that a) many of us were conditioned to believe that leadership knew what was better for our lives that we ourselves did and, as a s result, followed very unwise and ungodly counsel that we thought was Godly counsel or were bullied into following.

b) people followed rules and recommendations based on what they thought would promote them in the eyes of leadership.

People in category A (of which there were many) are blameless. They made wrong decisions and maybe didn't go with their gut feelings, but they were manipulated into doing so. People in Category B knew exactly what they were doing and did it anyway. Example: the LC/RC who counseled many women who were spiritually abused and raped by LCM.

I did some things I'm not proud of and have apologized to the people I know I have affected by my inaction. Anywone else I learn of as having been hurt by my inability to stand up for what I knew was obviously wrong, I would apologize to immediately. I only wish many others (some who post on this board) would do.

I have a friend who signed on to be there for one year and when it was up she wanted to leave. They told her that her agreement was for TWO YEARS and that she had to stay. Naturally, she stayed, miserable as she already was after one year, she got even worse during the second year. It was a shame to see her go downhill even further thinking she was doing what God would have her to do.

This is so much fun watching. Can y'all post pictures of Stanley that you're sending? I always wait with anticipation to see what Stanley's up to and where he's headed next.

It might be her! A lot of her teachings sound like someone who came from TWI, but not as harsh as I'm used to hearing.

Would she look like this today? Joyce Meyer Picture

Joyce's Home Page

I just read this article and I don't see anything wrong with it, in fact, I actually learned some things.

I was especially glad to see the bit about angels not being merely "guardians" of those who were to become born again in the future. I never could see that and thought LCM was wrong, but was too blind to be able to see the error (scary). Now, reading this article, I had a "Duh" moment....Angels did help many, many people in the Bible who were obviously born again...including Jesus, Peter and Paul. "Duh" How could I have been so stupid?!? Of course there are angels and of course they work for God taking care of us. If the devil has his minions, and they have carte blanche on who they choose to mess with, why wouldn't God have his angels working to protect us from those minions and ourselves?

I know it wasn't your purpose, but thanks for posting it. I guess it's still an effective piece, even if it is decades old.

The Unified Field Theory is mostly physics based, but many people believe that it is a good start on proof that we are all unified and "one soul" as Abigail so wonderfully put it. I think this is what the Bible means when it talks about us being of one mind and one body. It's a shame most religions don't see it that way.

I ran across a thread on the Open forum from a while back on this and thought y'all might enjoy seeing it so I brought it up to the top.

I've been on a bit of a new spiritual awakening, if you will, since leaving TWI. I have found out that there's a lot, a ton, a bunch even of good information out there that I've been missing out. Seems an awakening was going on and because TWI-ts have their heads in the ground we've missed it all.

I'm not eloquent enough to explain what I've been learning, but it has given me a completely different pserspective on the Bible and the truths there. My cousin says you can understand the Bible to the depth of your spiritual knowledge.

Abigail, I think you are right on with us all being part of one body and one mind. I think all of us make up the consciousness of the universe and we all contribute to it whether we believe that or not and wether our contributions are positive or not. Everything we do, say, think impacts us and others we may not even be aware of.

I think Jesus and the woman with the issue of blood and him feeling virtue go from him is an example of the hands on healing many people are doing these days in a way.

Jesus said we would do greater works than him and TWI-ts limit that to speaking in tongues while justifying reasons they aren't able to do even do half the things Jesus DID actually do.

The move "What the Bleep" also touches on this. (Awesome movie, btw) I have more to say, but not much time. Great thread, Abigail!

Good? Shaz, all I remember about help "outside the household" was that therapy or anything along those lines was nothing better than a "rent a buddy" system. Paying people to care for you and listen to you. LCM likened it to fraternities and sororities and paying people to like you.

"All needs should be met in the fellowship/twig/household" if they weren't, well, then you were screwing it up somewhere, but it wasn't TWI's fault.

Pretty sick. I'm ashamed I ever believed it and actually judged people based on that "fact" because I believed everything LCM taught. Gawd, the amounts of kool-aid I drank.... -->