Belle

I read a book called "High Bottom Drunk" about a guy's tries to get sober before joining AA and how he felt odd going to the meetings and hated them, but kept going until he found a group he did like and people he did relate with who didn't talk about God all the time and just fit his goals and ways of thinking.

I bought it off the website of the author pretty cheap and he even signed it. It's a great book.

Rachel, I hope things are going well for you. If you or nameless wants to contact me via pt, I'm more than willing to help in any way I can.

Wow, Refiner. Thanks for typing all this up.

Here's a few comments from my pea brain:

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The causes of these bizarre manifestations, including that of “false confession” are related By Robert Conquest, in his comprehensive book “The Great Terror”, to be common to men who have a desperate "will to believe" in the purpose of the movement they have given so much of their hopes to.

They cant bear the thought of admitting that they might have installed much faith and hard work into an organization that has actually turned into a monster.

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I think this is why so many people stay in cults after realizing that it’s not what it initially appeared to be. Pride gets in the way and it hurts to realize that we were duped, so much so that some people refuse to face the facts and simply ignore parts of their knowledge of the group so they can pretend it didn’t/doesn’t happen.

quote:

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Such rationalization as this, over time, can lead to the searing of a mans conscience to such a degree that he no longer recognizes evil for what it is and he can become convinced that any vile thing, so long as it serves the higher Ideal of the ultimate aim, is justifiable. Practisers of such thinking after a while, find practises that would have horrified them previously, suddenly acceptable.

For example, resorting to smear tactics to discredit an opponent.

Especially if the opponent is fostering “Disunity”.

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We’ve seen this all too well with people, especially the leadership in TWI. It’s pretty pathetic really how quick people were to jump on the bandwagon of “it’s grace” and people who are “spiritual enough” can “handle” the choices they would have them to make, such as not standing up against the sexual perversions and abuse they were aware was going on. They allowed these men and women to take advantage of na? and vulnerable CHILDREN in the name of God! In their minds they had so rationalized the behavior that they not only seared their conscience, they led others to the same fate.

“Disunity” in wayspeak is “not being like-minded”. Someone who was “not like minded” with the leaders in TWI was publicly branded as stubborn and we all know that stubbornness is like witchcraft. If someone was stubborn the leaders needed to let everyone know so that they would not be contaminated by this horrible individual. It was a good lesson for the faithful to learn and especially good for the wavering ones to see so that they would know what was going to happen to them if they decided to leave. -->

quote:

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He is a man of soothing words and late night phone calls aimed at generating harmony.

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Can’t says as I had any experience with this. Any late night phone calls I got involved screaming and yelling and condemnation because you reprove those you love. -->

Every time I couldn't get out of the mandatory witnessing we were always asked if that was our Bible. People would say, "Oh, yeah, you have your own Bible, right?"

I'd say something about looking us up on the Internet to learn more about what we teach. :D-->

Good to read you, Refiner.

I'm reading a really good book you might be interested in....The Self-Revealed Knoweldge that Liberates the Spirit: A nadbook of essential information for experiencing a conscious relathionship with the infinite and restoring soul awareness to wholeness by Roy Eugene Davis.

I only saw this confrontation in front of the household fellowship one time. The other times people just disappeared or were kicked out with no notice, no money and no help getting their things out if they happened to be living with other TWI-ts.

I remember going to branch or limb meetings to hear about how stupid and ungodly people were and how they had to be M&A. They were already gone by this time and no one to stand up for them.

What say ye, Mr. Linder and Mr. Platig? Are you apologizing to anyone for condoning and promoting this behavior? Have you personally apologized to anyone? What do you think while you read these things knowing that you are accountable to God for your position in this kind of degredation of God's people?

quote:

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WayGB shouldn't be so worried about who's posting what - they can't see who's reading what, which is more important!

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So true, Chas, so true! I was reading stuff on here for YEARS before ever posting. I got an awful lot of questions and teaching topics from here, though. They never suspected a thing.

So much for that spiritual perception they are supposed to have. -->

Well, Gawd bless his heart, he's just still blind and deceived like we once were. It's pointless to waste a single word on him....A fool convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

If he is Craig then he knows full well that Veepee was having sex in that motor coach. Maybe he just still believes it wasn't wrong and everyone was "spiritually mature" enough to handle it. -->

Yes. It is taught that adultery is wrong.

As promised here is part of the syllabus on this subject. There is more, but this is all I have time for today.

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Joshua….”as for me and my house….” That’s leadership. That’s what our hearts in this ministry should be. We are going to stand and our whole household is going to stand.

Colossians is written to born-again believers who choose to walk as disciplined followers of the Lord Jesus Christ and live faithfully in the household.

Col 3:12-14

Put on charity – this is the love of and for God in the renewed mind in manifestation is the cohesive element, that which ties relationships together in the household.

Col 3:15,16

Let the peace of God rule – umpire, what will make for Godly peace in a situation.

Dwellin you richly – how will it get there if you don’t read the word and think the word?

Teaching and admonishing one another – requires teaching and reminding others of what the word says. When it dwells in us richly we have the word to share with others.

Col 3:17-19

Whatsover ye do in word or deed – all believers are to do this.

Husbands love your wives – don’t allow yourself to keep negative thoughts and emotions in your heart and head. Those are fiery darts from the adversary and very destructive. A husband should be most kind and gentle and tender and forgiving towards his wife – forgive and forget.

People will stay upset as long as they allow themselves to be upset.

Col 3:18,19 (from Amplified)

Col 3:20,21

Do you youngsters want to please the lord? How many things should you obey in? In ALL things. Listen, remember and obey.

Col 3:21 (amplified)

Col 3:22-25

Fearing – reverence

Ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance – you want rewards don’t you? You have to live the standard of the word if you want any rewards.

I and 2 Timothy and Titus are pastoral epistles. Everone can learn from these.

1 Tim 4:12

behavior and a set of check points for young people as they grow in this ministry

1 Tim 5:1-8

v 8 the faith – the household of faith

Titus 2:1-8

The older women are to teach the younger women.

The wife should lve her husband as a priority then her children.

TAKING CONTROL OF EVERY ASPECT OF OUR LIFE

2 Cor 4:6,7

earthen vessels – our bodies

1 Thess 4:1-7

We acquire and take control of every aspect of our life to line it up with the word including sexual aspects of life and continuing this patter through our whole life.

1 Thess 4:3 (Literal accdg to use)

For this is the thing willed by God, namely, lead a life as one set apart to God, holding onesefl off from and above all sexual immorality.

1 Thess 4:3,4 (Amp Vers)

Control your passions, don’t let them control you.

1 Thess 4:6,7

Go beyond – pass over the line which divides right from wrong. Exceeding proper limits

Defraud – wrong or take advantage of – selfishly use (sexually or any other way)

The lord is the avenger of all such – We won’t be rewarded for those actions. This is God’s justice.

THE PROPER USE OF SEX

God designed sex as an aspect of compaionship for a man and his wife. The contesxt for sex is the marriage relationship.

Eph 4:14

The adversary tries to lead people astray according to the course of the world.

The only way to beat the adversary’s system is to have a better system, and WE HAVE THE BEST SYSTEM, THE WORD OF GOD LIVING IN THE HOUSEHOLD OF GOD

Our decisions relating to sexual behavior will impact our lives, our physical and mental health, our walk on the Word, our service in the household, AND OUR REWARDS

We know that the OT is for our learning…..lets see what it is not.

Not sex with animals

Lev 20:15-16

Psalms 8:4,5 – God put us in an elevated positon. Devil spirits try to trick people into degrading perversions.

We aren’t living in the law and we don’t impose civil penalties, but we should know God’s opinion of sexual behavior. We should never allow ourselves to become involved in this perversion, not in our thoughts, words or deeds.

Not Homosexuality

Lev 20:13

Romans 1:18

Hold the truth – suppress the truth

Romans 1:22, 23

An image – idols. Sexual deviations and perversions are closely linked to idolatry.

Not Rape or Forced Sex

2 Sam 13:1-7

Not Plygamy/Adultery

Gen 4:19, 23, 24

This is the first record in the Bible of a man having 2 wives. Lamech of Cain’s line. Somehow the adversary was able to introduce the idea of 2 wives, and it was an attack on God’s instruction of the two becoming one flesh.

Polygamy was not God’s will. Culture does not define the truth.

Jacob fathered 12 sons by four different women. Just because he followed the culture of the time does not mean it was God’s will.

Deut 17:14-19

Kings were nto exempt from the original plan of one man and one woman becoming one flesh.

Ex 20:1-3, 12-14

Honor thy father and monther

Thou shalt not murder

Thou shalt not commit adultery

Kin david would have known this word and it applied to him and he was responsible to do the word. David broth both of these commandments.

1 Kings 11:1-12

Solomon didn’t remain true and faithful to one waife, and he didn’t stay true and faithful to one God. Solomon would have been a better man of God if he had stayed on the Word in this category of life.

It is available to walk and not get caught up in adultery or other illicit sexual relations.

Always avoid an unfavorable situation. Don’t be compromised. It is wise not only to avoid the compromising situation but also situations where it could look evil to others. We don’t give the adversary place.

In living God’s word as a family, we should remember God designed man and his wife. The way to get our need and desire met is very clear:

Therefore shal a man leave his father…..one flesh…

Point well taken ex. I didn't think of that.

In fact, now that you mention it, I had been mentally keeping a list of things I wasn't supposed to do that I couldn't wait to do after getting outed and divorced from TWI. Cursing wasn't one of them, but I was in TWI II and it was expected. ;)-->

And I should mention that there are subjects on the JW board that are like the doctrinal topics....way over my pea sized brain's capability.

:)-->

I'm very interested in the lawsuits. So many of us weren't told anything about them and they don't mention any lawsuits any more. Nada. Never happened as far as TWI is concerned. "If you ignore them they will go away and people will forget about them" is the mentality.

It's a shame people have to come to the Internet and outside sources to get information on their own group. Keep wondering, wondering one.

Oh ((((((Digger))))))

They took my best friend and life partner, too. Our loved ones are so deceived and they honestly think they are doing what God would have them to do, the only problem is that they have confused God with TWI(t) leadership. No matter what I said or do I couldn't convince my husband that I hadn't rejected God, but the false prophets and evil men and seducers of TWI. By the end of our marriage he was calling me an unbeliever.

Not a day doesn't go by that I don't think about him and how much I love him and how sorry I feel for him. I know it's his choice to believe their lies and ignore what I tried to show him. He decided to cut off all communication with me and refuse to listen to what I had to say and show him, but it doesn't make him the horrible person in my eyes, it just shows how much power we can give people over our lives. He has given up so much in the name of TWI thinking it represented God. My heart aches for him, for you and for all of us with pieces of our lives destroyed by this group of wolves.

I do believe that God will replace what the locusts have destroyed. I have to. Thanks for sharing your heart with us.

Belle

That's sad, Goey. He's in a position to really help people, but if he can't be trusted then all he's doing is pushing people toward cults because if one thing is known to be a lie then everything else is chalked up as being lies as well.

I have registered and posted a few times on the JW site, but, as Oak said, just out of mere curiosity and it was more along the lines of Tom's posts and only about TWI teachings.

I do plan to register at Raf's site, but have only had time to lurk a little so far. Like Oak, the conversation on the JW site did seem a bit juvenile and superficial for my taste. I use curse words occasionally, but only occasionally and when I'm really fired up about something. Perhaps the subjects are deeper and more substantial than they appear to me because of the amount of foul language used.

I was looking forward to starting to post here and getting to know everyone, but people seem to be getting overly emotional and offended at things that really don't seem to matter in the whole scheme of things. I hope that I'm not considered anyone's enemy because of where I go and what I say. I visit quite a few other boards, but this is the only one I ever spent a lot of time on (I was lurking, but I was here).

I've called the help desk soo many times for things that have turned out to be user error that now I automatically assume I'm the one missing something.

However, when it comes to personal matters and matters of the heart, it is hard to shake that Waybrained paranoia we were taught so well.

Thanks for the clarification, Paw!

WG, they teach that anyone can be saved, but only the faithful are in the Household and going to receive rewards at the bema and are currently allowed the protection and blessings of God.

They even teach that the Epistles are written to them and them alone because they are written to "The Faithful in Christ." And remember that "no one can truly say that Jesus is Lord but by spirit (e.g. speaking in tongues). So, just because someone claims Romans 10:9-10, if they don't speak in tongues they can't really claim to be born again.

Those who don't give minimum 15% of their income to TWI (not just give to whomever they choose), won't get God's spit.

They may as well teach that they are the only ones who can be saved as far as I'm concerned. In fact, it seems like that's what they do teach when you really look at it.

They teach in the new class that sex outside the marriage is wrong. This includes pre-marital sex. They also go over bestiality being wrong. -->

I'm having computer problems, but I will try to type up part of the syllabus this week.

The wife is still in subjection to the husband and he has the final say on matters, but if they disagree on a big matter then they are to "hold it in abeyance" until both can agree.

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The only reason GS Cafe would appear to be heading anywhere is because of these stupid polls, beetchin and whining.

Maybe we need a whine & cheese booth right next to the Soap Opera booth, Paw.

The good old double standard and hypocrisy is alive an well at TWI.

Tom, do they have the The Myth of the Six Million and Babylon Mystery Religion?

Are they selling the books that say those books were lies?

I hardly think 15 votes qualifies as a complete look at the board. I wouldn't be surprised if most people don't vote just because so many are sick of this "GS is going downhill" crap.

What that Strange guy says. ;)--> That's how and why I voted too.

Hiya WayGB,

It's so nice to have the option of coming here or not. Reading and posting or not. Something you don't really have the option to choose between, do you?

Your people are assigned to to read and report back on these posts and others are forbidden to come here (but the TWI website is okay?) under penalty of becoming possessed. No choice either way, is there?

When talking to your computer and justifying the abhorrent secrets of TWI gets old, we'll gladly welcome you. ;)-->

Now let that dog try to get me!

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Now all I need is a matching purse and I'll make a fortune on Ebay.

I'm rather impressed with his observations and impressions of PFAL. I'm also somewhat flattered that he used his money and took the time to order the stupid book so he could see what we were taught.

If you (anyone) haven't been to the doctrinal section yet, I highly recommend it. I'm not brave enough to jump into anything down there, but I definitely enjoy reading.

Maybe most people consider this too petty of a thread to waste time on. ;)-->