Waxit

I do not want the opinion of anyone else because I frequently get misunderstood I prefer to dialogue one on one

BTW how can I PM you?

Can I PM you? There are a couple of things I would like to point out with your line of thinking in regards to the sabbath that probably will make you sit up and think Besides that a couple of questions: Have you read "Romes Challenge to the Protestants"> These are historical facts well worth reading You did take the pfal class didnt you? Do you disagree that there were 4 crucified with Christ?

Hi Twinky I will pm you and we can continue our conversation there Cheers Waxit

No you are right- Fred Coulter is the author of God's plan for mankind. To be honest I don't agree wholesale with eveything that Fred says Fred believes that there were only 2 cruciified with Jesus- I told him about the overwhelming evidence about there being actually 4 crucified with Christ- but he doesnt agree so I left it at that so go figure for a guy to write a book and not be able to see there are 4. Anywway that's not important but he is right on the money in regards to sabbath keeping and I have learnt a lot from him I think it's a bit unfair for you T-Bone to say I am selective I dont understand why you are saying I am being selective because I present both old and new testament verses Incidentally what Fred means when he says the gospels include both old and new testament I think wha he meant was- that in the new testament there are references to the old testament- For instance- ye hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy.........? Also during the time of Jesus- they only had the old testament as reference points- scrolls etc Since you are saying i am being selective in picking only verses that show sabbath keeping , Can you then show me a scripture verse that shows 7th day sabbath is not important and should be ignored?

Dear Twinky Sure- I would be happy to answer your question as per your request I wanted to give some thought so I can present it to you as succinctly as possible so please understand I am not ignoring you as i need some time Can I PM you as Waysider suggested? Regards Waxit

Hi Twinky I will definitely answer your question. Correct me if I am wrong?- you are saying I am "majoring in the minor things and minoring in the major things" in the mould of the pharisees? Nothing is further from the truth I am perfectly aware of the weightier things of the law- like mercy, justice,faithfullness and love which is really important. You will notice that in Matt 23:23- In context it is not referring in any part in the whole of Matt 23 in regards to the sabbath The Lord covered many things about the pride and the "holier than thou attitude and hypocrisy of the pharisees but there is no reference to the keeping of the sabbath. Never once has the Lord rebuked the pharisees for keeping the sabbath. He was righteously angry with the pharisees because they wanted to accuse Jesus for healing on the sabbath and so he confronted them on "their letter of the law" attitude and lack of love and mercy for the man with the withered man. I have said time and again God wants us to keep the 7th day sabbath with the right heart and attitude so healing, love, mercy and all these things we must have 24/7 The keeping of the sabbath was never any issue with the Lord or the pharisees- only how it was kept where the pharisees showed their true colours of hatred for Jesus Christ, lack of love, selfishness, pride and this is what Jesus Christ was confronting them on I fully agree with you that love, mercy, justice, faithfullness is the very heart of God and that's something we must major in But the verse that you quoted in Matt 23:23 has got nothing to do with the keeping of the sabbath as explained above and it would be unfair to apply it to me Ok! why is 7th day sabbath keeping so important in the plan of God for mankind's salvation?? It's a lengthy explanation and deserves a lot of thought and I dont think I can explain it in a few lines here on GSC Also please dont have the mindset that keeping of sabbath is going to be burdensome -Refer to 1 John 5:3 What God says is always the truth. Would you agree with that? Sabbath keeping is enjoyable a time dedicated to spending focussed time with God and rest free of distractions and outside influences Would you like to read "God's plan for mankind? It offers a more detailed explanation in answer to your question and thoroughly researched from the word of God written by a christian minister who is now 80 yrs of age. Dont read it all at one go- it will be too much- a little bit at a time- think about it and then continue and please pray that God will give you spiritual insight as it will all click spiritually if you truly seek to find out why it's important to God Only God can bring light in the way he can and give you the understanding that he would like for you to have. That's what happened to me. John 8:32 Love, Mercy, Faithfullness falls within the framework of the 7th day Sabbath and God's Holy Days God's plan for the salvation of mankind Much love in Christ Waxit

You get offended too easily and I honestly didnt mean to be insulting. I share a lot of information and it takes up a lot of time to go through the maze of information i present I know people will not agree with me on everything and I share the truth knowing that people will have their own opinions. But i share them anyway regardless because God said hold forth the truth- God said i dont hold you responsible for how people will react but only that you reach out to people in love I speak the truth in love and sometimes I get misunderstood (Satan will ensure that happens so they walk away from the truth) I am hoping people will see the significance of the 7th day sabbath in the plan of salvation and God will give them even greater revelations of the word of God But if you want to stop the conversation and coming to grips with the 7th day sababth and why it is so important because you think that I am insulting, I apologise for that because that was never my intention. I brought about a point so you can see that you might be on the wrong track and it runs contrary to what God wants. I respect your wishes and if you have any questions that you think I might have a point dont let this misunderstanding stop you from asking questions or discussing further- Also note there is a chance that I might have misunderstood you no hard feelings

If you follow my bible verse quotes in it's entirety Mark- you will see I heavily quote from the new testament The mind set that sabbath is for the ole testament is what I believe is making you think I am just quoting from the old testament. The whole word of God must be taken into account. The new testament is hidden in the old testament and the old testament is revealed in the new testament

Ah, no, we aren't the "spiritual seed" if we obey as you state. What's your chapter and verse on your proposition? The below verse was staring at you and I dont know why you didnt pick it up Galatians 3:29 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Tell me as gentiles can we be Abraham's physical seed. No obviously so what kind of a seed is it talking about in Galatians 3:29??? Obviously spiritual seed. What I am discussing, you already know- I am just going through the steps so you can see the connection between obedience as a result of believing faith and being a spiritual seed of Abraham Are you in Christ? - If you are (you must check with the word of God if you really are) and if you are then you are the spiritual seed of Abraham? How are you in Christ? Is it a matter of being born into the christ lineage physically Of course not God the Father begat as sons and daughters spiritually through Jesus Christ resurresction when we confessed and obeyed Part 1- Confession and Acceptance Rom 10: 9 & 10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. What does it mean to confess and accept Jesus Christ as Lord? In this case you give unreserved and total obedience to the Lordship of Jesus Christ and obey His commandments and his teachings. Jesus Christ is also Lord of the Sabbath The pharisees were physical seed of Abraham but they are not the spiritual seed because Why?? Because they did not obey all the commandments of God -sinned and in reality were the servants of satan and preferred to strictly enforce their own" traditions of the elders" which is man made- Keeping sabbath on sunday (1st day of the week is also man made- started by the rc church which God never commanded. Do not confuse me and the people who obey the commandment of sabbath keeping with legalistic pharasaical jews who have a ridiculous amount of rubbish "traditions from the elders -they are whited sepulchres look good on the outside and rotten on the inside The modern day orthodox jews even go to the extent of staying close to their synagogues so its within walking distance and they dont need to use their cars on sabbath You said that by keeping the sabbath, you wont be able to go for a drive. Who said that? Tell me, would you consider pressing the gas pedal of your car to be hard laborious work? So why couldnt you go for a restful drive . How do you think the sabbath keepers today (spiritual seed of Abraham) go to their church building. We dont walk for 10 miles, we drive there Secondly what's the go with - if you havent work 6 full days then you cannot keep the sabbath properly I dont know how you worked that out. So if that's the case, you mean to say old widows and disabled people will not be able to keep the sabbath??? Your logic whatever it is, doesn't make sense does it? Exodus 20:8-10 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God Where does it say in the above sabbath verses, that you have to work 6 full days Before you can properly keep the 7th day as a sabbath What God is saying is if it is understood properly is: You have 6 whole days to do whatever work you want to do or need to do Reserve the 7th day for me as a sabbath for resting and collective worship,teaching and fellowship and as you correctly pointed out that sabbath is from sunset (evening) to the next sunset (next evening) Part 2 - Fullfilling God's greatest commandment by loving God with all your heart and being in Christ (spiritual seed of Abraham) requires obedience 1 John 5: 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep ( The greek word here for keep is Teromen translates to "actively performing meaning obeying to do) his commandments (including the sabbath): and his commandments(including the sabbath) are not grievous (example allowed to go for a leisurely drive) When we are in Christ, it is a spiritual thing- it's spirit based John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. and we activatate this relationship of being in Christ and so being the spiritual seed of Abraham by being obedient to Jesus Christ and God's commandments because we love God, and we delight in Christ. How are we going to be in Christ if we do not know him and how are we going to know him if we don't keep His commandments 1 John 2:4 1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep (obey) his commandments. Notice the difference below of just giving lip service and being truly in Christ as our Lord obedience is required Luke 6 46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say (by implication what he stands for) In essence Jesus is pointing out that it is pointless calling Him Lord if they are not willing to keep God's commandments. Jesus Christ said, He and the Father are one and whatever tells him He does. So don't you think by implication Jesus Christ as the Son of God would have commanded the 10 commandments He goes way beyond the 10 commandments by bringing in the beautitudes to live our lives by Twinky, it looks like you do selective reading. Maybe you are very tired and dont have the time or energy to see how it all fits together. Some of the thigs learnt in the p-falafel class (even if most of the material was plargiarised by some clown psing as Doctor of Theology) some of them are good biblical principles. Precept up precept , line upon line to see how it all fits together and see the whole picture So don't do a microscopic witch hunt to shoot me down but instead if you follow the sequence as shown in the bible, you will see how the keeping of the sabbath along with the rest of the commandments fits in with God's plan of salvation The problem with most christians is that they miss out on God's plan for salvation by ignoring a very important commandment of God (7th day sabbath) Your quote: And don't forget, Abraham was born and died waaaay before Moses was even a twinkle in his dad's eye, never mind the time when he was given the ten commandments. Abraham is "pre-law" or "patriarchal" (for those who are into "dispensations"). Therefore, you can't say that Abraham "obeyed the law" as it was later written down. Obeyed different (unwritten) laws, maybe. We can't know what, with precision In regards to pre law, pre mosaic, whatever you may want to call it- dispensations old vw stuff which he mesmerised us with- we must be careful to get good valid stuff out of that stinks -vw used fancy terminology like dispensation to build up to what he wants you and me to believe. Let's not go down that track Obedience doesnt have to be just a written command, if it can be proven. The word of God is also written in the stars Every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God whether it is spoken or written is a law or commandment (when it says do this or don't do this) Luke 4:4 4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God What's the word of God?- It is the will of God- What's the "will" of God? It's the laws and commandments of God So it doesnt matter that God formally gave the 10 commandments 400 odd years after Abraham to Moses- God's word is law -spoken or written, it is law.The whole of creation is sustained by God's laws and commandments Genesis 1:3-5 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. The law formally given to Moses- doesnt mean it is any less significant before the time of Moses. The law was already there from Genesis being witnessed by the angels . Deut 30:10 1 10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God,(spoken) to keep (obey) his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law and if thou turn unto the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul., and if thou turn unto the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. Deut 30:19 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: When God speaks the whole of nature listens and heaven and earth and the angels are witnesses of the laws and commandments of God If obedience legally is something that can only be adhered to only if it is in written form then Adam & Eve might have a good case against God for driving them out of the garden of Eden Adam would go something like this "God, I heard you loud and clear and it was very clear to me when you told me' The day you eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you will surel die" . Aha - but you didnt give that commandment to me in writing so please reverse that decision to drive us out of the grden of Eden" As for Abraham not obeying the law- Read Genesis thoroughly and you will see that it was because Abraham believed and obeyed God's voice directly (The word of God) it was accounted to him for righteousness It is the same with us who choose to believe God's word (The bible- The word of God) and obey that's why we are called the spiritual seed of Abraham because we are following the example of Abraham - once he understood what God's commandment was - He chose to believe and obey. He didnt question the validity when he was to leave his pagan family. He didnt question God when he was to offer his only son tht he loved as a sacrifice to God. He obeyed the great God of the universe knowing that God knows what he is doing and the outcome would be the best one and believed God that in the end somehow he would be blessed for obeying God that God had him covered. This is believing faith and he was greatly blessed by God The word of God is the will of God - It is witnessed by heaven and earth and the angels The whole bible is about Jesus Christ who is the word of God and the word of God musy be treated with the utomost respect (fear of God) for God's sovereignity Yes! I can say Abraham did obey the laws and commandments of God and it doesnt make an iota of difference whether it was given by direct revelation or in written form. Satan cannot argue because the word of God is also in written form. Jesus Christ when he was tempted in the wilderness said "it is written" Ok you say we dont know with certainity what Abraham obeyed in regards to God's commandments so what do you say to this: Genesis 26 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice (God's direct word), and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Abraham obeyed all of God's commandments including the sabbath. There's no doubt about that You must also understand that the people of God were already observing the sabbath right from day one even before it was given in written form to Moses etched in stone tablets Exodus 20: 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. This is the first mention of sabbath as instructed by God through Moses So why would God ask them to "remember to keep the sabbath" if it was a new thing and never heard of or practised before Go figure Because it was already being practised right down from Adam & Eve through Noah through Abraham God nailed it on stone tablets officially during the time of Moses. So it doesnt mean God has to give it to you in writing before it becomes a law or commandment. It becomes a law or commandment when God speaks it We are not not talking about the british parliament or the american senate. This is God's word we are are talking about and it is written in the stars Romans 4:5 5 But to him that worketh not, (we cannot be saved by our own works- salvation is a gift of God through Jesus Christ- that's true) but believeth on him that ( but our believing and obeying God's commandments as Abraham did- obedience is the natural consequence of believing faith) James 1:22 justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness (God is able to impute righteousness to us in Christ because of our believing faith in the whole word of God as he did for Abraham) Revelation 22: 14 Blessed are they that do (obey) his commandmentssss (plural includes 7th day sabbath keeping) that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (excludes fake christianity- people who want to do what they think is right and what is convenient for them. When Abraham was asked to get out of his comfort zone where his kindred was, it must have been inconvenient for him but he chose to obey God- Now he's called the father of faithful and the spiritual seed of Abraham by God's decree are those who follow his example of believing faith (i.e obedience)

Hi Twinky The 10 commandments also applies to -born again christians (true christians) as Spiritual Israelites We who believe by faith as the spiritual seed of Abraham are the israel of God if we obey all the commandments of God True christians represent Spiritual Israel Galatians 3:29 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed,(Spiritual Israel) and heirs according to the promise. True Christians are Jews inwardly in heart and spirit Romans 2:29 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (when we keep the traditions of men (sunday) we are accepted of men but when we keep the commandments of God, we get God's approval (one of them is 7th day sabbath kept with the right heart and attitude) The issue of keeping the sabbath and he holy days of God is the framework upon which God's plan for the salvation of mankind is based upon. We have a carnal nature- selfish, sinful that tries to out rationalise God's commandments into not doing them The intellectuals and the learned people during the time of the crucifixion thought it foolishness for Christ to die on the cross for us and so in the same way we think it doesnt make sense for God to insist on the 7th day sabbath. Why can it not be any day- a day which is convenient after all it's the heart that matters, isn't it? Well God wants both heart and obedience to His commandments. Those who obey will be blessed So God's says in: Isaiah 55 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts If you like, I can try and make arrangements for you to read and check out a book called God's plan for mankind based on an in depth study of the bible which opened my spiritual eyes. I understood why it was so important to God. This book is free of charge - it doesn't cost $100 like the pfalafel class True Christians in the dark ages were peresecuted by satan through the rc church for keeping the 7th day sabbath Do you love Jesus Christ? I am sure you do but what is the proof that you truly love Jesus Christ This is what Jesus Christ said in John 14:15 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments (plural all the commandments of God- the whole word of God including the 7th day sabbath with the right heart and attitude)

Guys, let's stick to the sabbath day ordained by God- the subject in question is being obedient to God's 4th commandment in the 10 commandments. There was a specific day that God had appointed for collective teaching, fellowship, worship and rest - the 7th day so let's not theorise- it maybe this day or that day One thing is for sure- the early christians were taught directly the apostles who were directly taught by Jesus Christ I believe the apostles of Jesus Christ would never deviate from what the Lord taught them to do. Do you agree with that? Acts 2:42 42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. These were not only jews but jews and gentiles. Someone pointed out that when the gentiles became christians they automatically adopted the "sabbath" of the jews. How is it then the "gentiles" didn't automatically adopt the "circumcision"? I am sure you will agree that Paul had such a tough time with his ministry to the gentile christians especially the corinthians in continuing in the "apostles doctrines" . These gentile converts were still of the old mindset prior to their conversion and if sunday or any other day were an option for collective teaching and worship (weekly gathering) don't you think they would have taken it? (For instance: Acts 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Why was there no contention regarding the day of sabbath observance as in circumcision - because the "apostles doctrine" specified the seventh day sabbath and the gentiles coudnt argue against that. Jesus Christ observed the sabbath (He was Lord of the Sabaath) and the apostles also observed the sabbath The pharisees who were always busy with their intelligencia trying to find fault with what Jesus Christ and His disciples so they could accuse Him. So if Jesus Christ or His followers were observing any other day except the 7th day Sabbath- dont you think they would have been all over Him. It was always what His disciples did on the sabbath not whether they kept the sabbath If that was not enough proof of the 7th day Sabbath mandated by God in Exodus 20 Consider this fact for over 400 years from the time of the early christian church, there was no historical evidence of christians, of any jew or gentile anywhere ever observing any other day except the 7th day sabbath which corresponds to our present day saturday. Why is that? Please read Romes Challenge to the Protestants to see how sunday came into being and why satan through the rc church persecuted christians for observing the 7th day sabbath The same weekly 7th day sabbath observed by Jesus Christ and His followers was continued without a break. The Sabbath of Exodus 20. If there was one thing the jews did right in spite of all their "traditions of edlers", it is to ensure they got the sabbath right This same practice was continued by the apostles week in and week out. God knew about the changes that will take place with the introduction of the gregoran calendar which is inaccurate and that's why God gave the jews the calculated hebrew calendar The sabbath has been calculated as our present day saturday Romes Challenge to the Protestants.pdf

Can you please elaborate your understanding of: Romans 10:4 - For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. Also dont get me wrong I am not saying that there is a specific day set aside for you to rest and worship and the rest of the day you are supposed to forget God. No! we must be in constant communication with God But God also ordained a specific day so that families and working people can rest from their labours Other people may be forced to work to provide for their families- Most people are engaged with some type of work to feed themselves- So God made it a universal command for an appointment all christians to specifically set aside the 7th day (Saturday) corresponding to our modern calendar for collective rest and worship and teaching The early christians had direct knowledge of the word of God being taught by the apostles who were directly taugh by Jesus Christ (The Lord of The Sabbath) Shouldnt we follow the example set by the early christians in accordance with the word of God Lord of the Sabbath doesnt mean Jesus Christ did what he liked but Lord of Sabbath here means- He stood for the Sabbath. It is like Jesus Christ was King of the Sabbath Jesus Christ would never break the 4th Commandment of God (Exodus 20) Did you know that the 7th day sabbath was never in question by jews or gentiles? That's why the sabbath never surfaced as an issue. Circumcision was but it was settled because as you rightly said Paul preached that circumcision was the circumcision of the heart. In regards to the debate on whether the newly converted gentiles should conform to what the jewish christians were doing (circumcision)in Acts 21:25 25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing (circumcision), save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. There is absolutely nothing state above in regards to the keeping of the sabbath Why??? Because Sabbath was never an issue They were unified and of one heart in keeping the sabbath Rom 10: 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. By not keeping the sabbath, Gentile christians of today contradict Rom 10:12 essentially saying we have a new understanding from the jews No! There is nothing mentioned about sabbath in Acts 21:25 - it was purely relating to the circumcision. This is a classic case of where one can run into the trap of getting something out of context and applying it to something else which is unrelated The 7th day Sabbath was universally accepted by all and observed by both Jews,Gentiles and the apostles/leadership Acts 13: 42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. 43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. 44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

When I was in TW in NZ, I lived in the "way" homes and that's the biggest mistake that one can make. As someone pointed out in GSC- it's a group think brain washing and the sewage comes from the top- it's all about what the leadership from the top and the foot kissers at the twig level tell you- your ability to think and medidate is based on the rubbish they give you. Honestly, what chance do you have, if you told them hey LCM is wrong on this matter- What do you think would happen.? So, No! I didnt make the word my own while I was in the way After I got out of the way- and it was a lot of heart ache and disillusionent I cried out to God pleading "God please show me the truth and I sought him earnestly I still remember I was in my room praying and suddenly the awesome presence of the Holy Spirit came upon me and I had tears of joy for days. The Lord systematicall led me out for error and to know the truth. When i read this book called "God's plan for mankind", it was like- i kid you not it was like "the scales of my eyes fell out" So! Yes! After I got out of the way, I made the word my own by researching and studying and doing my best to live by what I know as truth from the word of God

After I came out of the way- heart broken and distraught and I sought God with tears pleading for Him to show me the truth. I will be honest I was so brain washed by TWI the biggest mistake of my life was not ot check TWI out and when I was in the way, I didnt even make the word my own- You know when you live in the stinking "way" homes it's a group think brain wash coming - the sewage coming from the top from TWI HQ- You are busy being guided by their activities and feeding of their "rightly divided word The Lord systematically brought me out of false doctrine. I remember when the presence of God came

Great point Socks- You are absolutely right when you say our relationship with God must be 24/7 and we have that priveledge of communicating with God as christians who are living in the post resurrection of Christ era. I must point out though the bible versions wwe have got a lot of errors in translation including the KJV which is notorious Just because wthe KJV tells you what has been added by way of italics doesnt mean you can trust it This is the reason for 2 Timothy 2:15 We normally decide what is true by what we think is the correct interpetation of scriptures based on the material supplied by a particular version not realising that maybe there are translation errors (in ths case I think you are using KJV. Am i correct? In addition I would like to ask you a couple of questions: (1) Are you saying then that the Law has been abolished? (2) Are you saying the Jews can have one way of doing things and the Gentiles need not follow- the Gentiles can do their own thing

That's right and that's why we need to be like the bereans Acts 17:11. God called them noble In regards to TWI, i feel we didnt check the twi personally out thoroughly and felt that the way vw was flawless and gave him too much credit

Look not everything that you learnt from vw is false - he did teach some good principles you cant honestly tell me that keys to rightly dividing the word of God is rubbish (plagiarized maybe but not rubbish) Satan doesnt give you everything bad otherwise you will run away vw was a stupid clown who didnt live the word of God with the type of lifestyle that he led in fact he admitted that he didnt believe the word. I dont at what point satan entered into him to devise the whole cult set up so he can travel around in his luxury purpose van- i suppose the bed was the most important thing to him and he wanted to have free sex while calling himself "father in the word" I can only pity him when he comes face to face with God So dont go on a witch hunt on me and tie me in with vw just because i spoke about the rightly divided word which is biblical I know what I spoke about regarding the sabbath doesnt have contradictions and it fits harmoniously because I have studied and checked them out God loves you bud and wants all of us to come to a knowledge of the truth Love in Christ Gabe

When i say "rightly divided word of God, I am referring to the truth in God's word that does not have contradictions and it fits harmoniously with the rest of the scrptures

Point taken- I probably have to re word things so it comes across as a discussion rather than doctrine that should be accepted Sorry to all if I gave you the wrong impression Something to consider Twinky The names of days may have been arbitrary and it maybe named after pagan gods but right from the beginning the sabbath has been observed and has been passed through the generations. Otherwise why would God say"remember to keep the sabbath" even before it's introduced The Jews have got a lot of their own man made traditions as in the pharisees - hundreds of complicated rules which God never told them to do and they observed the sabbath with the wrong heart- they were strict in their observance and the one thing they could never be fauted on is observing the weekly 7th day sabbath- which God commanded them to do using the calculated hebrew calendar- it's very accurate. God gave them the calendar and God should know because he created time, days and seasons the day we call saturday has been calculated as the 7th day- I know there were the introduction of the gregorian (modern day calendar) but the jews re adjusted it to ensure that it was always the 7th day that they observe the sabbath In Exodus 20- even before the ten commandments was officially given in written tablets God is saying remember to keep the sabbath- so it was not something new to them, the knowledge of when to keep it has been passed right down from Adam & Eve where the word of God was written in the stars Exodus 20 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

I am not judging- what makes you think I am judging? I only discern what is right and wrong by comparing it with the rightly divided word of God If i am proven wrong going by the word of God-rightly divided (of course! vw took everyone for a ride) then I am humble enough to learn from it and accept it. There maybe things that no one knows for sure until they are in the kingdom of God meeting Jesus Christ face to face

Yeah! that's true- like i said if you read my previous post- there will always be people who will disagree that I hold true and you maybe one of them- so what! The whole world accept for a small minority agreed with Jesus Christ who was THe Way, The Truth and The Life so am i that people should agree with me when I show them the word of God. My duty as a christian is to hold forth the word- what people do with it is their own business Everyone is accountable to the Lord on the day of judgement

Ok! To summarise, the weekly sabbath is always on the seventh day of the week and is a commandment from God. If there is one thing that the pharisees got it right is the observance of the sabbath on the 7th day of the week (i.e saturday not sunday (1st day of the weeK Please read my attachment of "Romes challenge to the protestants" on how sunday came into being despite the fact that for over 400 years since the time of the early christians- there was no such thing as a sunday sabbath If you didnt see the attatachment when i started the topic "One man esteemth one day above another......", let me know and i will re send it to you You have got the right understanding behind God ordaining the day of rest and why God established it as a commandment right from the beginning. However the details of when it is to be observed is also important. (7th day of the weeK) Hebrews 13:8 8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. If Jesus Christ didnt keep the sabbath then he would have broken the 4th commandment of the 10 commandments and your salvation and mine would have been kaput. We have a perfect saviour who never sinned. You say that Jesus Christ always kept the law but not necessarily the sabbath You are contradicting yourself here accrding to God's word The law is "keep the 7th day sabbath". So if Jesus did not keep the 7th day sabbath at any time, he would have broken the law. 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Twinky show me in the bible where Jesus did not keep the sabbath Are you saying that because Jesus healed the man with a withered man, he is not keeping the sabbath This is what the pharisees said but look at what Jesus Christ replied: Luke 6 6 And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered. 7 And the scribes and Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on the sabbath day; that they might find an accusation against him. 8 But he knew their thoughts, and said to the man which had the withered hand, Rise up, and stand forth in the midst. And he arose and stood forth. 9 Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it? So healing and sabbath service is part of the sabbath. Jesus frequently healed on the sabbath so he never broke the 4 th commandment. The levites might have taken another day off but within the context of "keeping the sabbath for rest, worship,teaching & fellowship, they never broke the commandment. Sabbath starts at even (evening(sunset) of the 6th day- friday and finishes on the evening(sunset) of saturday There is plenty of time for the priests to sleep and to have a nap The orthodox Jews had a very strict interpretation of "no works" on the sabbath and therfore did not observe sabbath with the right heart and attitude of having no crinkles on their colours but Jesus Christ (the Lord of the Sabbath) said: "Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it? Healing is part of the sabbath. Today we dont have Jesus with us physically so what happens when someone is ill - he has a common cold- He has to go to the door for medicine/antibiotics right so in this way he gets healed and rested God has covered us within the context of the sabbath if we ever needed healing and rest I hope I am making sense- Jesus Christ always kept the Sabbath (7th day-saturday as commanded by God) not sunday- man made tradition (roman catholics started it) Read "Rome's Challenge to the Protestant" (google it if you dont have a copy or i can send you a pdf version)

People may agree or disagree with me-that's a fact of life- I am not saying that I have all the answers and that everyone should follow me That's not my intent- not at all I meant to ask which part of my statement, someone is having difficulty understanding At the end of the day- there are some people who genuinely have a difficulty understanding for some reason and these are people that I can discuss further But there will also be people who will refuse to understand by holding to something that is clearly a contradiction of the word of God and I can still love them and pray for them but i wont waste my time discussing further with them God words is such that when you rightly divide the word- everything fits and there is one unified understanding as vw the con man rightly stated there are no 10,000 ways to cut a coat

Rocky, first of all Mark is not my enemy and secondly I definitely do not have the final word on what pleases God. Only the Lord Jesus Christ will judge rigteously in the end Only God knows who will and who will not enter the kingdom of God. I dont know whether you give a hoot about the sabbath which is a really important topic but instead you are picking to comment on something that you should think about before you tap on the keyboard To be honest, I did not want to comment to Mark's reply because I thought he might be in the twilight zone but i thought wait a minute, he needs to be shown so he can think along the correct lines outlined in the word of God So this is actually loving the person enough to show him and not ignore someone. It was not delivered with hatred but love It's great that you are sticking up for Mark but it's unwarranted and it's not thought through and hence the knee jerk reaction Someone who is quick to jump the gun in defence saying Haannm! Who do you think are? My reply to Mark is one of those cases akin to someone observing the tell tale signs of what a person is saying and making an accurate assesment of what's going to happen to him which is in line with the manual (the word of God). If you want to make an accurate assesment on how a car will function, you will read the car manual If you dont like the sound your refrigerator is making, you will read the refigerator manual So the same thing with spiritual things, you go to the bible This is why God gave us His word so we can learn from examples in the word like Moses and see what pleases God and to make sure we are on the right track spiritually (rightly dividing the word) It's a bit ridiculous for you to comment on my reply to Mark and say- "I may or may not have the final word on what pleases God" because you are assuming I am being a judge and I am not the judge- just pointing out what pleases God coming from the divinely inspired word of God aka the bible Why do you think God;s word written so it will remain a complete mystery!!!!!!!and becausee God wants us confused all our lives!!!!!!!!! as to what pleases Him No! definitely not Thanks for quoting Mark 5:44-45 but it's unwarranted and out of context because Mark is not my enemy, just someone who needs to be shown from the bible the error behind his own opinionated thinking so if he decides to change his thinking, he can be on the right track spiritually not according to what I think but according to what God is looking for so God can shower His blessings on Mark Biblical Definition of Meeness:: Meekness is an attribute of human nature and behavior. It has been defined several ways: righteous, humble, teachable, and patient under suffering, long suffering willing to follow gospel teachings; an attribute of a true disciple Psalm 25: 9 The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way. 10 All the paths of the Lord are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.