Charity

I noticed yesterday for the first time that when I googled a question, AI was the first response.

This is a recent event that has to do with why I started this thread. Shortly after the Christian woman I wrote about previously said she would continue praying for my grandson’s health, he had a drastic improvement. He was consistently much happier and was having only the occasional minor seizure. I immediately had to deal with the idea that God (who I no longer believed existed) was answering her prayers. Although there was also a small change made to his medication, previous changes (and there were many of them) had resulted in only a temporary improvement or none at all. So, there was no way of knowing for sure if this change was causing what was happening. The relief from seeing him this new way felt wonderful and we were all truly thankful. As a Christian, I would have had no doubt that this was coming from a loving and caring God. As an atheist though, I obviously had my doubts, but I couldn’t outright dismiss the possibility. The consideration to “give God the glory” was tempting mostly because of how thankful I was and previously, I had always given that thanksgiving to God. However, I eventually realized that my reaction was indeed a nostalgic feeling based on those from the past which I now know were never based on factual evidence and that the things I had learned over the past few months about the many problems with God’s morality and the authenticity of the bible still remained real and rational. Since then, my grandson continues to have some bad seizures but they are much fewer and farther in between than what they had been for so long and for this present reality, I’m most thankful.

That be the one. Thanks!

Finally, a use for that emoji! You're quite witty to think of it!

Did you remove any recent posts lately? There's one I'm looking for which had a video and now I'm thinking I'm having a senior's moment that I even saw it.

The twi's double standard used to condemn the lowly followers and elevate the high-ranking leaders shows the "cookie jar" concept is of men. Notably, the inequalities seen in the bible such as men being higher than women and slave owners than slaves show these concepts and laws were man made as well. The fact that some people, including Christians, want to return to such inequality now also proves this point. BTW - you have a gift of lightening up your posts

Unfortunate, but true. I listened to a podcast from The Line Edge a couple of days ago where the caller used some incorrect science to claim this and then tied it to the earth being destroyed by fire in the bible (possibly a reference to 2 Peter 3:10) and to Rev 11:18 about God destroying them that destroy the earth. The responses from the 2 hosts are very interesting. Caller STRUGGLES to Grapple with the Disparity between Logic and His Feelings (@ 13:00 in the video)

Once you realize that the books of the bible are not the "inspired word of God" but those of men, then it becomes acceptable to come to different more logical or reasonable conclusions than they did.

I remember earlier this year, I had finally let the women’s group at the Vineyard Church know that I did not believe in the trinity. I discussed it with them a few times during meetings and with a couple of them on Messenger. They stood firm in their belief that Jesus was God the son. I was torn between their love and fellowship and my need to speak freely about who I believed Jesus was. One Sunday morning, I messaged that I would go to church with a completely open, unbiased mind and ask God to show me his truth. During the worship service, I was not focused on my question but only on God and Jesus. I was feeling very blessed by the songs we were singing when out of nowhere the words “look to Adam” came to my mind. I was absolutely sure right then that God had answered my prayer and given me his answer. You see, I had already been looking into who Adam was before the fall happened since Paul had written that Jesus was the second Adam. So I saw this revelation as God personally telling me that like Adam, Jesus was a man. I was so excited and overjoyed. Looking back now, I think it was from my own mind that this thought popped up, and I just gave God the credit because I was psychologically primed to expect an answer from him. I also now think that carrying on a conversation with God and Jesus back then was all within my head, and the reason it felt so real and comforting is that it's how a child feels when talking to an imaginary friend.

This makes me think of how all the answers not given by God to believers in this life are expected to be given to them in heaven and yet, there is no evidence that such a place called the "heavenlies" (where Jesus supposedly is) exists or that any one is presently in a place called heaven. The promise of a future eternal afterlife (i.e, the hope) must be totally taken on faith from words written in a book. Like your point above, I think this is very convenient, especially if the writers want to get people to conform to their ways. IMO, the afterlife is the greatest coverup story for a fictional god that there is.

I too love thunderstorms like the ones you describe. Speaking of weather, I wonder if twi ever did or does now believe in climate change/global warming.

This must be the kind of fire that is promised to end the world one day (2 Peter 3:7) so nothing to see fear here.

Such hubris on his part. I'm glad you didn't .

I'm thinking now this is where I had read about the barrels/trash cans of money, not in the book "Undertow." Thanks for looking it up Nathan. Skyrider did not write whether this collection of cash was each night of the ROA or one specific night as WordWolf remembers it. Rounding up this much money every night would have been astounding. P.S. I miss Skyrider very much.

I believe it was in penwork's Undertow book where she mentioned the large piles of money that came in during the ROA from passing the baskets. I'll look it up because I was amazed how barrels full of cash were carted off somewhere to be counted. Studying how twi's book "Christians Should be Prosperous" was wrong according to scripture and then being insulted and dismissed by the top leadership when I went to discuss it with him was the day I walked away from twi without ever looking back.

Do you remember how much twi charged back then? Now, It's $175.00 for adults and children 12-18 and $60.00 for children 6-11.

I've been trying to remember whether we did or not going back to 1974 and it just doesn't ring a bell. I don't doubt you though.

You have to pay now to attend? What's up with that?

Very sorry to hear about your friend Rocky.

I was taught that grace meant God's undeserved favour. When it comes to God's salvation, the bible says we were undeserving because we were sinners (Rom 5:8-11 But God commends his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.) Christians love God. They are thankful to him and rejoice in him for his divine grace shown in those verses. However, God only saves us from what he himself set us up to be in the first place because of Adam and Eve – humans born in slavery to sin and worthy of his wrath, death and eternal punishment. To me, this seriously sounds similar to being a sufferer of Stockholm syndrome where a bond is created between the abuser and the person being abused. Stockholm Syndrome It's interesting that one of the symptoms of SS is having negative feelings toward police or other authority figures who may want to free the victim from the abuser and even hold the abuser accountable. Christians will often have negative feelings towards people who try to show them that God is an abuser of his creation.

The problems arise when one only reads the bible (or what Christians teach about it) and decides to put gnawing questions about biblical doctrine on the back burner because of one's apathy or cognitive dissonance. One way to find answers is to consider what others outside of this echo chamber has to say. I find the video below is a good place to start. Bill Zuersher - Seeing Through Christianity - A Critique of Beliefs and Evidence

TLC, what failure are you afraid of committing? Are they spiritual failures such as sinning or not living up to Jesus’ standard of commitment to him as in Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. 27And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple…33So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsakes not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple? Concerning eternal death – there's nothing to be afraid of since no one will have consciousness of anything after death (Eccl 9:5) just like it was before you were born. If it is a fear of missing out on eternal life with rewards and seeing your fellow Christian loved ones, God and Christ, you can see from researching Zoroastrianism where and how such beliefs began. (The 2 websites below give some info.) Zoroastrianism Zoroastrianism

To me, god is an imagined being created in the minds of men. To you, he is real and governs your beliefs. So I’ll ask the question this way in response to your statement that “the glory of God here relates to something that is eternal. Which puts it on a level that is so far above and beyond anything even remotely related to “self-esteem” or “self-worth,” it makes “the antithesis” of one’s treasured self-value as laughably worthless as anything else on the opposite (highest) end of the scale.” (Bold font is done by me) As a Christian, when you look at a newborn baby, do you actually laugh at how worthless he/she is in comparison to your god? As a humanist, I believe every person in this world has intrinsic worth.

The biased baggage I speak of relates to how it burdens the world, not always specifically me. As you said, salvation is conditional which fits with the definition of bias - God is in favor of one thing, person, or group compared with another. Some other biases that cause division, oppression and persecution are the Jews being the chosen people (Deut 7:6), women being subject to men in the church (1 Cor 14:34, 1 Tim 2:11), homosexuals being vile, and worthy of death and/or deserving of recompense/retribution (Lev 20:13, Rom 1:26-27) and unbelievers being unequal to Christians (2 Cor 6:14).

To believe this TLC, you must believe that everything God did in the OT was an act of love. On top of that, Christians believe that because the bible says God is righteous and just, everything he did in the OT was right and moral. Twi didn’t spend much time in the OT since it was not written ‘to’ us – I had barely read it until recently, so maybe this is true for you as well. It’s a real eye opener to actually read event after event of the atrocious deeds God committed on his own people, not to mention on those who were not called his people. It’s easy to write in a book “God is love,” but the proof is in his actions. Please don't quote Isaiah 55:8-9 as they clearly prevent critical thinking resulting in brainwashing and indoctrination. What do you think about God in the OT?