Charity

Yes, but what is faith? Where does faith come in when it comes to her question - "My daughter’s 36 now and she’s schizophrenic and if God is going to bless me with a miracle baby then why did he give her schizophrenia – what kind of god would do that?"

Thank you for your reply oldiesman. What would you tell her faith is?

I think it's unfortunate that you chose to focus on those two words instead of the issues around "believing" that the video was about. Marie was in the Way for 15 years. She eventually came to realize, like the dozens of posters on GSC, that it was a cult. You know then, oldiesman, that she was taught the false and harmful "law of believing" dogma. Could you not have related to her confusion about why God would "bless" her with children because of her believing and then later on "give" her daughter schizophrenia. Having the required faith to get answers to prayers is definitely a "hit or miss" practice where God gets the credit for the supposed hits and believers get the blame for the obvious misses. Did your heart ache when she said, "For so long in my life, I sought God and I tried to be a godly wife and a woman of God and then after I left the cult, I left Christianity as a whole and now it’s like, I sought to have the truth and to know the truth when I was in the groups and I find that I’m back at that thing – I want to know the truth again, and I want to say I’m living my life honestly and not living in an illusion, I guess." If she was talking to you, oldiesman, what would you have said to her?

Do you really think that fear of going to hell is a good reason to worship the god who is threatening to send you there if you don't love him?

Thank you for your post. I understand the fear and pain associated with alcoholism. My father was an alcoholic for decades. Often, he would become abusive, even violent towards my mother. Her priest told her this was her burden to bear and that she'd receive her reward in heaven (f$ck that sh$t). One year, in his late sixties, he had a heart attack and became a grandfather for the first time. (He would love sitting in his rocking chair with my infant son asleep on his big belly.) He just stopped his drinking that year. My father never talked about his alcoholism after that, and I regret not asking him about it so I could understand what it was like for him. His strong Catholic faith was never enough to help him even though I know he sincerely felt remorse and wanted to stop. It was more likely his thankfulness for getting a second chance at life and the comfort from loving his newborn grandson that helped him. I still get emotional thinking about it.

Dumbo Ending "The magic feather was just a gag..."

I agree with what both of you are saying – if it’s working, it doesn’t need fixing. However, if God, as the chosen higher power, isn’t working and the “why” questions are going unanswered or unsatisfactory/irrational/condemning answers are being given then suggesting letting go of that “feather” for a more healthier one can be helpful. One that promotes personal autonomy, agency, and authenticity such as what Raf refers to at the end of his post.

It warmed my heart just to see you write "my son has had a lot of questions."

What's also interesting about the video is you can see that Marie is in the process of deconstructing but may also be heading towards deconverting. She says, "For so long in my life, I sought God and I tried to be a godly wife and a woman of God and then after I left the cult [meaning The Way], I left Christianity as a whole and now it’s like; I sought to have the truth and to know the truth when I was in the groups, and I find that I’m back at that thing – I want to know the truth again, and I want to say I’m living my life honestly and not living in an illusion, I guess." It reminds me of the 3 questions the host of The Atheist Experience often ask of their callers - What do you believe? Why do you believe it? Do you care if it's true or not?

It's almost impossible for those who believe in a god to say they don't know why something incredibly unlikely happened. They are taught to automatically call it a miracle. This can be true whether they believe in a Christian god or a Hindu one. As a Roman Catholic, my mother used to always believe the virgin mother Mary or a specific saint answered her prayers. I look back at the time my car hydroplaned and swerved in front of an 18 wheeler (which I had just passed) and then immediately went back again into my own lane. It happened so fast, I'm not even sure if that was what really happened or just what really seemed to have happened. but I immediately believed it was a miracle of God. If I had not been a "believer," I would have said I don't know how it happened, only that I'm thankful that it did. Later on, I learned that if you turn your wheel away from the skid while you're riding the water, when the tire hits the road again, your car will go in that direction. Could it not be enlightening to ask Christians for evidence when they claim something that happened was from God? I'm usually not an AI Overview fan, but I do appreciate this one based on the question I googled. Giving god the glory without evidence it was from god

The woman says right away that she was in The Way for 15 years before leaving. She is calling in because her son is now an atheist, and she has some questions. Two important events in her life have to do with her belief in God: one is how she became pregnant after being told she physically could not for medical reasons and the other is her adult daughter being diagnosed with schizophrenia. I'm going to listen to it again but my initial thoughts are that the host gave some rational responses to her questions and doubts. "I Can't Explain My Past Without God!?" The video is 17 minutes long and she does give a name at one point.

I'll PM my reply.

I see what you mean as the definition of only is "no one or nothing more besides; solely or exclusively." My apologies for causing you a moment of discomfort - I hope you recovered quickly

I love the quote Rocky. So to manipulate how life should be lived going forward, one only needs to inaccurately rewrite history. But who would dare to do such a thing?

You’re right. I have sent revvel a post explaining my previous comment regarding his intentions regarding this thread. It’s an “in-my-opinion” post, and I will leave it at that. Your sentence highlighted above is a good one. The way vp talked about wanting to teach the word like it hadn’t been taught since the first century led me to believe everything was perfectly accurate and agreed upon back then. It was a real eye-opener to realize it was anything but and that the contents of the bible took centuries to be decided upon because of all the disagreements. And even then, it was anything close to being perfectly accurate and continues to be so disagreed upon today.

I realize now that I misread what you wrote about Christ knowing the mystery before the crucifixion. You specifically stated he did not (as shown above in blue font). How "God had hidden a mystery—in Scriptures given prior to the Crucifixion" (also highlighted in blue above) is what you are endeavouring to show through this thread. I conflated your two ideas into one.

revvel, concerning the last post I wrote before GSC went down (see above), I want to personally address my issues with this thread. I do not feel like you want a discussion as your replies to posts in general have often been minimal in content with a “wait and see what great thing I will share next – you’ll be amazed” tone of voice. I find that to be a bit presumptuous on your part - it sounds like something a salesman would say to get you to want to buy their product. And then sure enough, a post with scriptures and your commentaries would follow. Your specific approach to answering my questions have sounded condescending and/or patronizing as well. For example, “You continue to demonstrate the depth of your intellect. Yet another excellent question. Patience, Charity, Patience... we'll get there.” I was a teacher before I retired and learned it was best to let the students guide the lesson with their questions instead of giving them a pat on the head for asking them and then continue to follow an inflexible series of lesson I had planned. While I do like discussing scripture and am learning to be use the Socratic method when doing so, I found this thread personally frustrating. I will, however, answer the question you did ask me next.

I've got to say the offer sounds pretty interesting especially if you're "young in the word" and in the 18-25 age bracket. The problem is that it's most likely going to be twi's opportunity to push the benefits of signing up for more "service" such as the ambassador and corps program. Their goal is always a "life-time commitment" to them.

I don't know when or where he revealed his identity on GSC (a link would be helpful), so it was still a secret to me. I think it does matter because is he here for a discussion or simply to teach his doctrine found in his books and on his website? I began to feel in was the latter after reading more of his posts and replies, so I decided to look him up here which lead to his post with his website which led directly to William Ayles. I don't know what the GSC rules say about this matter, but for me personally, I feel like he is misrepresenting himself.

Thanks Raf - I wasn't thinking of the confidentiality that is behind the names we give ourselves on GSC). I will reword my question to Revvel.

On your thread The Torah to Revelation, you write, "The entire book can be read online on my website: www.thetimeline.org" Are you William Ayles who wrote "The Mystery of God?"

When YHWH appropriated Baal’s praise (6-minute video by Dan McClellan) Interesting research when one doesn't rely only on the biblical ancient history.

What evidence is there that Jesus knew about the mystery before his crucifixion?

"...draw your own conclusions." Well, I hope it will explain why both Jesus and Paul believed the end time would come within their lifetime and when it didn't, Peter had to give an explanation to keep the hope going - "But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." Where is there any evidence of this being true in scripture other than Peter declaring it? My conclusion thus far is that the hope of Christ's return and all the great stuff that is promised to come afterwards is a pipe dream.

Thanks for the thread Raf. Concerning the above, what would you say about 1 Cor 11:23 where Paul makes a possible reference to Judas. He writes, "For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread?" Why would Paul claim Jesus revealed a "last supper" with bread and wine to him but not any of the other things you mention above? Paul might have influenced by the Greek myth of Dionysus - it's not a one-one connection but the idea of drinking wine and eating raw meat was associated with him.