Charity

Love vs lovebombing (which is the action or practice of lavishing someone with attention or affection, especially in order to influence or manipulate them) I can still remember how I felt at my first "twig" fellowship." I had never been so "fully accepted and the center of attention (which I usually detested, but this felt different). The two wow sisters were so excited I was there to hear God's Word. I actually started to feel good about myself. This continued right up to the Rock of Ages that year and then I went wow and things changed quickly. The love of God was around and at times I became the lovebomber instead of the lovebombee. But so much of the self-doubt returned along with a loss of knowing God's love. The reason I was so happy to get my "wow" pin was not because of the great year I had, but that I survived it. If ministries (cults) like twi need to use lovebombing to lure people in, what does that say about their ability to simply love people?

Love it! Watched it 3 times.

This is to say thanks for the John Carrey's What is Love!

hmmm... how so

Cool

In general, I think "keeping" means holding something in your heart; interesting because a few verses say, "for out of the heart flows the issue of life"; "out of the abundance of the heart, a man speaks"; and with the heart, one believes - that kind of thing. Personally, having someone in my heart means I love them, they feel close by, and I think of them. As a kid when asked to keep a secret, we'd cross our fingers and say cross my heart and hope to die. Whereas "obey" means to do what someone in authority tells you do. Applying this to children, you have those who are bossy like my 4-year-old granddaughter; she is described this way at her day care but then again apparently her and a few friends like bossing each other around - I'm told it's quite cute to watch .

I've placed in on hold at the library - just needs to be sent to my branch that I use. I could listen to a radio version online like the good old old days.

I quickly dug up some info from this website and it agrees with what you are saying above. Another King James Bible Believer - to keep vs to obey (webs.com) __________ Consult all the Greek Lexicons you wish.,,They all list the meanings of this Greek word teereo as "to keep, to preserve, to observe, to give heed to, to guard, to hold, to not lose, to protect, to hold firmly" but not one of them lists "to obey" or "to do" as being one of the definitions of this Greek word. Why? Because it simply does NOT mean "to obey" or "to do". There are other words that mean "obey" and others that mean "to do", but not this one. If you are playing basketball with some buddies in the park and you take out your wallet and keys and ask a friend to KEEP them for you, obviously you want him to hang on to them and not lose them. You are not telling him "To obey" them. Many modern versions have completely changed the intended meaning of these two Hebrew and Greek words. It started with the liberal RSV and continued with the equally liberal NRSV, and has continued to some extent among the more recent NIVs, ESVs, Holman and NET versions. The NIV 1984 edition translates the O.T. word Shamar as "to obey" 29 times and as "to do" 5 times. It also translates the N.T. word tereeo as "to obey" 21 times and "to do" 3 times. I believe this is due, not only to Satan's hand at work to promote a works-oriented religion, but also to much careless preaching. Legalism is natural to the human heart. Martin Luther said legalism is like an oil in our bones. __________ Being that I am tired, I do not have enough of a sound mind to add any of my words tonight except to say, it appears a biblical study is needed to see if the Greek words are being translated correctly. (Oh no, the dreaded biblical studies, I thought we put an end to those .) j/k - it's a personal choice.

The highlighting above is mine. A definition of "saturate" is "holding as much water or moisture as can be absorbed; thoroughly soaked." To me, I find this to be a loaded word when used in the context of a cult such as twi where leaders demanded that many followers totally agree with and live according to everything they taught - absolutely no room for questions, critical thinking, or freedom of choice. You can see this so clearly in the examples given in the BITE Model of Authoritarian Control, shown before on GSC (website below), especially under the "Behavior Control" heading. One of the techniques under "Thought Control" is: "Use of loaded language and cliché which constrict knowledge, stop critical thoughts and reduce complexities into platitudinous buzz words." The word "saturate" is only used 3 times and appears only in the NET version - twice they refer to tears and once to watering the fields. The verses in Deut 6:6-9 that Mike was referring to are about God's word being in their hearts. Using the word "saturate" as Mike does is private interpretation of the scriptures and leaves the door open for cult leaders to define what "saturate your life" means for the purpose of lording over believers. https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model/

Thanks - it's not always easy to tell so it's helpful when someone does use /s.

Hi, what does /s mean?

You did not carefully read the definitions of smart and intelligent. "I want you to brush your teeth." Is that smart enough for you? Did I choose my words properly to communicate my will?

Mike, since you have doubled down above on what you said earlier, I will reply again: Merriam-Webster gives the following definition for the words you have used: Smart: having or showing a high degree of mental ability. Intelligent: having or indicating a high or satisfactory degree of intelligence and mental capacity You do not need either of these to accurately make known your will. I believe you do have to have a sound mind meaning having full, unimpaired thought, memory and cognitive understanding - an ability to think and understand for oneself. (The Free Dictionary by Farlex) Your last sentence in your post sounds like a defensive projection. I, as well as others, disagree with "God's word is God's will" and have given specific reasons why.

Thank you for your post OldSkool. This is where I stand as well, and you said it without injecting any of vp's deceitful words which Mike always does.

I guess I could say I was too in that I sincerely believed the class would minister to them once they sat through all 12 sessions without being allowed to ask questions until the last session. But then, asking questions at the end only meant you weren't paying enough attention the first time (as Mike often reminds us) and therefore you need to take it again. Therefore, go out and sign people up (you're a grad now after all) so there's the required number to start a new class. I was usually excited about running fellowships (both adult and children's), teaching the Word often from the collaterals and lovingly undershepherding people, but the goal was always to have them sign up for the class and then after taking it, the "commitment to the word" stage would begin. This is pretty much how I remember it.

As of today, I have never been a big Twilight Zone fan (meaning there's always hope for the future), but I love the quote.

Nathan_Jr wrote, "God's word is God's will" is a loaded, pithy phrase, insidiously designed to seduce." vp and lcm, as supposed MOG, obviously were not trustworthy. Being smart (or intelligent) has nothing to do with being trustworthy. It's interesting why you would say it does - it might have something to do with the fact that you often refer to the intelligence of people in twi and almost always, it's in a way to imply yours is greater than theirs. Now a sound mind does come into play since once must be of a sound mind at the time their last will and testament is written. "I use this line" reminds me of what a guy/girl does when trying to pick someone up in a bar or something. I don't think Jesus had a line or slogan when he ministered to people. Then again, in twi, witnessing wasn't about ministering so much as it was about selling the class; hence a pickup line comes in handy. The "God's word is God's will" slogan is everything Nathan_Jr says it is, especially when it's repeated over and over again.

I read something this morning about Matt 22:39 that was like an epiphany for me and I'm rather taken aback by it. There is a different meaning given to "Thou shall love your neighbour as yourself." My understanding has always been that you have to love yourself first before you can love others and that's what many secular books say as well. However, since this verse is not merely a commandment, but the second great commandment after loving God, a question now comes to mind: Why would God command us to love ourselves? If God needs to command that we love ourselves then it must mean we are not always doing so (which would apply to everyone - and especially those who struggle with self-love, self-esteem, self-worth, etc.). I've always taken this verse to mean then that I have to work on loving myself which I have been trying to do most of my life. It's what keeps me analyzing my past. However, I can honestly say this hasn't moved me very far forward spiritually, emotionally, mentally or physically. What if this verse doesn't mean I need to love myself before I can love others? What if loving ourselves has nothing to do with our works? What if it is something that has already been established for us by God through Christ. As God's kid, we are beloved of God as much as Jesus is beloved of God. If this is true, then being loved by God is enough - we don't need to add to it by loving ourselves. If there's any work to be done, it is understanding how perfectly we are loved by Him. That's when the focus of verse 39 then becomes on the neighbor and loving them. I'm sure there are others here who have figured this out before now. I'm wondering if anyone knew and practiced this while in twi.

I assuming Rocky when you say that "love ourselves" was indelibly imprinted in your mind that you meant while you were in twi. How did they teach what it meant? Was it simply a command to love ourselves and then to love others in the same way? Because that's how I always understood it to mean, and I didn't know much of anything about the Bible until going into twi.

Good point! Metaphorically, the cat with the chicks (especially the nursing of them) made me think of how twi was the opposite (their exclusivity and condemnation towards Christians outside of it). Then the pulling the chicks back reminded me of their use of fear to keep people from leaving and finally the ducks following the cat was like when you could no longer think for yourself. BUT, that's not anything like the video is really about - it's adorable and all about the love! (in case anyone hasn't watched it)

Er, yes there's that. You did get my hopes up though because I thought it was this one that my friend and I used to love to dance to. What Is Love (7" Mix) - Bing video You might like this version better what with the dancing and all Haddaway - What Is Love (Echo) - Bing video And then there's this one by Foreigner that used to pull at my heart strings. Foreigner - 'I Want To Know What Love Is' [Official Music Video] - Bing video I say "used to" because I haven't listened to either one in a long time, but I still feel this way about them. .

vp was cunning in how he used his version of God’s Word, God’s will and God’s love to cultivate an obedience to him. lcm learned to do the same but was more blatant about it. Is obedience love? As children of God, when we love God, we keep his commandments. But there’s more to it: Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another (1 John 4:10-11). And we love him because he first loved us. (1 John 4:19). I think God wants us to get the order right which means to first focus on His personal love for us and then love Him and others in response to it. Does love fear reprisal? It would when someone understands or defines love in unhealthy ways - like an abused person who “loves” their abuser yet lives in fear of failing to meet his/her narcissist expectations and demands of what being “loved” means. Not, however, in a healthy loving relationship and definitely not when we love God. Does love expect reward? Expecting a reward when you show love to someone makes that person feel like they have to earn your love. So that’s not right. Yet God promises to give rewards at the Bema for obedience to His word here on earth. So, there’s that to understand about Him and His love.

I did not want the thread to only be about Godly love so anyone could be part of the discussion. I also brought in the issue of what we learned about love as kids and now I'm thinking how much of what we learned about love that was unhealthy was repeated in our experience in twi. Did it have a factor in why we were attracted to it and/or why we stayed as long as we did.

This is something I've never heard of before. It's interesting though what it does or does not show about twi - definitely open to interpretation.

Just amending the above to have it say, "Feel free to correct or disagree with me any time."