searcher

This thraed explains something that I have been trying to work out for a while. Thanks all who posted.

To a certain extent, people are defined by the rules they make for themselves, not the ones they are forced to obey. It is not always pleasent to 'hear' what someone has to say outwith the enforced rules constraint, but it does say a lot about the person.

No problem :D--> it is fascinating to learn.

Kit, I cannot say anything because I am not ex anything, and so have no first hand knowledge. As a 'never been' however, I can give an outsiders view of what I see, that is the reason for my post/thread.

Thanks Jeff, It is nice to be able to follow the steps taken by groups, gives a better insight as to why.

JW’s spend their entire time in the cult being micro managed, their every word and action is subjected to close scrutiny. After leaving the cult, most of them become over sensitive to what they may perceive as ‘close scrutiny’, and react negatively. On the other hand, they ALSO subject peoples actions and words to close scrutiny, leading to much “so you are saying then” and “obviously you mean” etc. Mostly, this is so ingrained that they don’t even know they do it, rather like a nervous habit. Understanding this can help greatly in interacting with them.

Mr Mineta seems to think that it is better to risk having a plane blown up than to risk hurting the feelings of a few people. Goes to show what sort of world this has become, hm?

I shall stick around for a couple days because I want to bring my 56 posts up to 3000. :D-->

A few times while reading I have encountered the saying 'studying the bible down to the word' if this means what I think it means, that would explain why some posts are hard to read. I take the meaning of the sentence or phrase.

Zixar, “Pony” Yes, it seems the subject has been discussed to death, (but not died). Conclusion (mine) State “I believe” and expect to be left in peace with that. Or State “I do not believe” and expect to be left in peace with that. That seems to about cover it I think. Now, about these Sea Monkeys……………………. :D-->

How does TWI view the relationship between husband and wife? For example, JW’s take this literally, 4 The Bible further establishes the responsibilities of headship in the example of Christ Jesus, who is spoken of as the husband and head of his congregation. It makes direct statements, such as: “Let wives be in subjection to their husbands as to the Lord, because a husband is head of his wife as the Christ also is head of the congregation, he being a savior of this body. In fact, as the congregation is in subjection to the Christ, so let wives also be to their husbands in everything.”—Eph. 5:22-24. Taken from a 1968 Watchtower magazine (WT mag is studied more by JW’s than the bible is, the bible is just to ‘back up’ the Watchtower with selected quotes)

Zixar, I agree, I will start a topic in doctrinal, we can talk there. Better idea, could a mod please move this thread to doctrinal to preserve continuity? The origional question seems to have been answered now.

Zixar, Not nitpicking at all, you are correct. True, however, I believe that all religion comes from mans awareness that he is part of nature, all the rest comes from speculation about that. A man and a woman ‘create’ a child, so they reasoned someone/thing must have created the first man, and away they went. And I just KNEW I had spelled interpretations wrong :D-->

Lindyhopper, I can offend people just by looking at them :D--> j/k I take it you like swing music then?

Thank You Zixar, Your post explains things so well I could almost be there, for, although I have never been in a cult, I have been a part of things that stated off good, then were taken over by, for want of a better phrase, power hungry a**holes. It is a pity that so many horrible things have been done in the name of god, but then, so many wonderful things have been done in his name also. Bad things done in the name of god are the main reason I dont believe. I will explain if I can. Religion is based on the bible, I have read the bible many times, both from front to back (several times) and in sections, I find it confusing, contradictory and inciteful. Please dont get me wrong, I am not 'bashing' this is just what I see, and I do have good reading comprehension. The only reason I am saying this is that, as I see it, what I said above about the bible is why there are so many different groups and beliefs, it seems there are almost as many different 'interpritations' as there are people. It seems that the problem is people.

Thank You OnionEater, Sounds frightful.

Thank you Raf, that adds to, and clarifies. I see where I was having difficulty, most leave the JW's now because they stop believeing in the doctrine, some because they are thrown out for 'lack of spirituality' or 'sin' (mostly smoking I hear) :D--> Your point about Russels death makes sense now, groups DID form then.

Thank you gladtobeout and Zixar for your reply's. Interesting stuff, I see I have a lot more research to do before I get a handle on this TWI business. It surprises me however that ex members of any cult would want to get straight back in to a similar thing, did they then have such a commitment to the 'doctrine'? My only experience in real terms, with ex culters has been with the ex- JW's, and they have a tendency to avoid anything similar to the JW cult like the plague.

Shame really, I would have liked to have a copy of that CD> Ah Well.

Uncle Hairy I am not trying to be contentious here, I am just trying to give an 'outsiders' view that is 'non partisan', I hope you take this as such. You Wrote Maybe it is because of things like this, You Wrote Bold Mine for clarity. Mary Cate Wrote Bold Mine for clarity. The two statements are not exactly the same are they? From this point on, if you are quoted, something entirely different to what Mary Cate said will be the norm, and vice versa.

In another thread waterbuffalo had a dialogue with me where he mentioned ex-way groups. Could I please ask for someone to define what he meant by the expression? Hopefully waterbuffalo will answer this as he may have a different meaning to others, any help would be welcome though. I am a little confused as to what he was actually refering to, as he talked about EX-Way groups shunning etc. Edited to clarify after suggestion from Tom. Thanks Tom. *note to mods* I am not sure whether this thread should be here or in About the Way. Please move it if necessary. Thank You.

Thank You wyteduv58. And........erm........am I to eat that bun with the tea that Raf got for me? :D-->

From what I hear the Elders are certainly left to carry the can. Have a read here http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/default.ashx This is not the board that is ‘in the news’ here, it is the biggest ex JW board around, reading a few posts there should give you the flavour. ex JW's mostly seem to stay away from the things they had to do in the org. Some become fundamentalist christians, some reject religion altogether, and all points in between.

My research indicates it is true. JW's practice shunning, but publically they say it is 'personal choice', it may be but no staunch JW would make the choice to not shun they would be 'marked' (noted as lacking sprituality, actually, they publically say a lot of things are personal choice but JW's know how to read between the lines and figure out what the org really wants. Also the Elders get letters circulated from the org that say different things to what is out for public consumption. Funny thing, the org manages to distance itself so that if there was a court case about something, the Elders would be held liable.

waterbuffalo Some years ago (about 4) I became interested in religion, not that I am a religious person, now or then, but in trying to understand how religion started, what similarities/differences there were in the different religions/beliefs, so I started to study them as a hobby. During this time, while I was reading up and going to various denominational meeting houses/churches, the JW's came to my door so I invited them in, I studied with them for about 1 year, not to join, to find out. I searched the internet and found a site for ex JW's called Jehovahs Witnesses Discussion so I joined it to get the story from 'both sides'. I met a lot of nice people there so I stuck around (they have an on board chatroom and I am a chataholic), it was during this time I bacame aware of Refiner, a poster there (that is how I know him). When Refiner talked bout this board and the cult of TWI on another board, Jehovahs Witnesses Online, another ex JW board, I became interested because I had, untill that point, never heard of TWI, so I wandered over here to find out what TWI is all about. For a non religious person I find religion fascinating, also, WHY people become religious, and what they get out of it.