Catcup

Amen.

"You can't solve a problem with the same level of thinking that created it." --A. Einstein So, no. They cannot salvage it. They are captured by the idea that it can be brought back to its former glory. That is assuming what they believed was glory was something truly glorious. What they are trying to bring back is a fantasy, and they are trying to do it based on erroneous foundations, by erroneous thinking.

Just clicking this up to the top again in light of discussion on open forum regarding CatManDooDoo et al... Interesting that this thread piqued his interest enough for him to leave two posts on this thread, but left no helpful information on the subject... Folks, ya can never be too careful.

As far as The Way College of Biblical Research, Indiana Campus, it was accredited only in the state of Indiana, by a loophole in Indiana law. WCBRIC was never a nationally accredited institution. For this reason, those credits do not always transfer to legitimate 4 year institutions. I know that some colleges that specialize in giving life credit to returning adults, do accept those credits, but most do not.

I don't remember VPW ever sending out a call for a donation of used textbooks. But that doesn't mean he didn't. But I can't fathom what anyone would have used them for. The only books required were the ones sold in The Way Bookstore. I do remember there was a locked room set aside in Wierwille Library that D@nna R@ndallwas in charge of, that contained rare books and encyclopaedias from the old TCE library. The books in the Anderson Library? I don't know. I never saw any. Our first year there (75-76), the Anderson Library was under renovation, and the basement was the Art Department. Our final year there (77-78), for the most part it was still an empty building, except for some kind of annex I never went into. There may have been books there. Anderson was in fact a Carnegie Library, but if TWI got anything other than simply the shell of a decrepit old building that badly needed repair, I was not aware of it. I think the majority of the books were taken out at the sale, or perhaps sold off by TWI? Funny. Two "libraries" on the "college" campus (Wierwille and Anderson) and nary a book in sight. Now there's an education for ya.

I know he was trying to do it in a way that would "keep" the accreditation. However, that was a ridiculous concept from the start. TCE GOT their accreditation by meeting rigorous standards set by the accreditation agency, which I believe was the Northwestern Association. This requires a college to include requiring core subjects such as college level science, math, and composition. TWCE would have had to meet those standards in order to "keep" any such status. They offered the 6th Corps a ....-poor english supplement that had NOTHING to do with composition, and mostly had to do with spelling. As far as college level comp, there was NOTHING offered to us that even compared. And TWCE didn't offer ANYTHING where mathmatics is concerned, not even basic arithmetic. And science? HA! Our first year in-residence (1975), Don W was I believe, either working on his PhD or recently gotten it . He (I think I remember him telling us), for his thesis was working on how the "block" system could be implemented in an educational institution and was a superior means of education. I remember people from his college coming to TWCE to check out how he had implemented the program there. When the Northwestern Association people came (also during my first year in-residence) they rejected accreditation for the following reasons, among more: Lack of qualified teachers with advanced degrees (Masters, PhD) in the subjects they were teaching Inadequate core curriculum including science, math, english.

Sorry, can't remember how to do the quote thing, so I'll do it this way: 2. When did the thrust or focus begin to change, and when did the idea begin that the WC would be the entry program for a lifetime of ministerial service? It was my understanding from the very first I was involved in TWI in 1972, that The Way Corps was a lifetime of Christian service. I believe the section of the ROA 72 film featuring the Corps even states it that way. It was my understanding that TWC was a calling, and while anyone could apply, not everyone was called and would be accepted. It was supposed to be a program focusing on training those called to gift ministries. I was blessed when I applied, that I was accepted. But to my great surprise, once in residence in Emporia in 1975, VPW came out and changed the focus of TWC to that of "training twig coordinators." I remember it vividly, because he came out and made that statement in a Sunday Night teaching, no warning or previous announcement to The Corps. I still remember the title, because the announcement was so stunning to me: Stones of Witness. I for years thought I must surely have misunderstood "the man of God" when I understood the Corps' purpose as something different. But then he went about changing the logo, and I knew differently. It was sort of bait and switch. I signed on for one thing, and ended up being trained for something else. 3. Many colleges began quite small, and worked hard with growth and oversight to gain accreditation and other benchmarks of credibility. I am curious, did the whole college campus thing have that as a goal? Was it the goal of twi to grow their "institutions of higher learning" into programs that might be recognized outside of twi? VPW, when acquiring The College of Emporia in 1974-75 stated to the apprentice Corps that year (6th) that the The Way College would be an accredited institution and we would graduate with accredited degrees in theology. Shortly thereafter, he blamed attorney for TWI, Sc@tt J@rvis, for "not filing the appropriate paperwork" and missing a window of opportunity to assume the accreditation status of The College of Emporia. J@rvis was simply the "fall guy" for VPWs stupidity to assume TWI could take on another college's accreditation without having his college meet the rigorous academic standards that any other college must in order to be accredited. 4. Were any WC encouraged to do more than attend college, but to also pursue those subjects that might expand their knowledge of what other people thought about theology? I know this was highly discouraged among regular followers. By my interim year (1976-77) after being able to score nothing but fast-food jobs, I had decided that I needed to go to college in order to have any chance of making a decent living and supporting myself, but I was already in The Way Corps. I began listening very carefully to VPW's views on Corps going to college. VPW scoffed at people he referred to as "professional students" and noted in the Advanced Class, a particular devil spirit affecting such "egotistical" people, namely "the fallacious spirit." VPW repeatedly complained about investing all the time, effort and money he (HA!) spent training Corps to be ministry leaders, and then they would go out and involve themselves in college instead of doing what he trained them to do and what they were called to do. In other words, VPW equated a Corps grad going to college with ignoring their true calling, unless they were specifically assigned by him to go to school as their Corps assignment. When I finally approached my branch leader about going to college, I got a face full of fire and was totally discouraged from even asking VPW about it. When I approached my work coordinator about being trained to do something besides refinishing, sewing, or housekeeping, his response was, "It's not our job in The Way Corps to train you for an occupation!" My dreams of a higher education, or even some kind of training to better myself were deep-sixed for several decades. So in answer to your question, NO.

As a reply to the question in the title of this thread: Did VPW teach LCM on Legalism and Sexual Abuse? I would have to say yes, and in this way: Several times while in residence, VPW discussed legalism vs. license with us as two extremes. He discussed the "early" days of TWI when open sex and drug use was a problem in the Corps and ministry (I guess now it was the "openness" that was the problem and not the act itself!!!) and the excuses that people used. He also discussed various problems he had with leadership who had been legalistic, and what forms it took and the results of that behavior. Then he made a very interesting comment in light of the above discussion. VPW often said that despite the "problems" that licentious behavior presented, it would not be license that would bring the ministry down. He several times emphatically stated that it would be legalism that would bring it down. I'm sure there are many Corps here, especially you old-timers, who can verify that statement. It was a self-serving statement, for sure. But it was in fact true in the sense that it was LCM's legalism that drove the ministry into the ground, and momentum still merrily augers it in that direction. However, it was VPW's own licentious behavior that was the setup for it to occur. If behavior swings too far in one direction, without fail it will eventually go the other way in excess.

That's not a digression at all. Nope you're not ! We are discussing the backside of the millstone of the millennium. It just ain't so pretty when you really look at it, now, is it? Once again, with feeling: What compassion! Yeah. WHAT compassion? Such a vast difference between the God we originally believed, and the one to whom we were misled.

What compassion! What concern for the welfare of the individual! What servants of the Body of Christ! What well-equipped first-aid center would NOT have a glucometer?!?!?!?!?!?! Oh, yeah, I forgot-- it's THIRD aid.... should have given us a clue as to our priority in the eyes of TWI! No $h!t you could have died in that tent! No $h!t the ministry would have looked bad-- THEY WERE BAD! Just look at those ministers going forth as leaders and workers in areas of concern, interest, and need-- They were concerned purely about their OWN interests and needs, obviously not yours. Ya know, I take heart in the fact that ONE day, they will be forced to answer for their attitudes and actions.

Yeah, Georgio, that about sums it up except for one more thing: Add Connix Pannarxllo's comment to me: "Your ankle has not healed because your husband doesn't love you enough!"

Precisely.

TWI was FULL of GRAY AREAS. That's what kept us all bamboozled for so long. There were some good things that happened to me in TWI. Lets see...uh... I met my husband there.... I learned how to use the proper fork... I met some really nice folks who are still good friends to me today... (well, they are outa there...) Evan kept us laughing at the Texas Farm, mooning the exploitative farmer... we had some really sweet and tender times with lots of folks in small gatherings. There are many more. But the bad for me and my family eventually outweighed and overpowered whatever good happened to me at their hands. Your experience does not negate mine, nor does mine yours. Just because some good things happened there, doesn't mean that terrible and tragic things did not happen as well, to me or to others. And just because I had a mix of experiences, doesn't mean that there aren't folks out there who had NOTHING but awful experiences. And there are some who claim that nothing but good ever happened to them at TWI. Usually those folks are still in. If they are out, there was SOMETHING that made their involvement with the organization no longer worth the hassle. But I'm through with going through life with blinders on. I did enough of that in TWI. Yes, overall, it was a terrible experience for me. But I refuse to ignore that GOD is EVERYWHERE PRESENT, and can reach you in the worst hellhole and bless and speak to your soul. That doesn't mean it is His will for you to STAY in a hellhole, it's just that He can and did bless me and others, and for that I am thankful. And remembering the good things that happened keeps me sane and from drowning in depression. In order to remain objective, you have to look at all aspects, not pick and choose what to observe and what to ignore. Not accepting that, is not accepting the truth

Black and White, hell. TWI was FULL of GRAY AREAS. That's what kept us all bamboozled for so long. There were some good things that happened to me in TWI. Lets see...uh... I met my husband there.... I learned how to use the proper fork... I met some really nice folks who are still good friends to me today... (well, they are outa there...) I'm sure there are more. But the bad for me and my family outweighed and overpowered whatever good happened to me at their hands. Your experience does not negate mine, nor does mine yours. Just because some good things happened there, doesn't mean that terrible and tragic things did not happen as well, to me or to others. And just because I had a mix of experiences, doesn't mean that there aren't folks out there who had NOTHING but awful experiences. And there are some who claim that nothing but good ever happened to them at TWI. Usually those folks are still in. If they are out, there was SOMETHING that made their involvement with the organization no longer worth the hassle. Not accepting that, is not accepting the truth.

It is alarming to me how easily we trust people on the internet to be exactly who they say they are without first truly testing the waters, and how quickly we can jump into very personal relationships with people we barely know. This is seen in any forum on the net, for example myspace.com, and has been seen on WayDale and GreaseSpotCafe as well. When in TWI, we had the understanding that we could meet any TWI believer anywhere and immediately have a certain level of comfort, understanding, and safety, because we felt we shared the same values and beliefs. When that worked, we made some of the best friendships of our lives. But that was a two-edged sword. We now know all too well, that when it didn't work, the results were often bad, even tragic, and sometimes fatal, putting our lives and the lives of our family and children in jeopardy. While this problem is not unique to exWayfers on the net, I believe because of previous conditioning, some of us may be particularly vulnerable and not realize it. I know there are several linkups of folks from WD and GSC that have ended in blessed, harmonious unions. But I also know of several where people jumped in too quickly, were too trusting, and got stung. In the interest of public service, I'd like to hear some advice from both sides of the issue. And I ask posters to be respectful to those who choose to bare their souls to you in order to prevent you from making the same mistakes they did. So from you veterans of internet dating and/or friend relationships: What should a person look out for? What questions should you ask before getting too personally involved? What precautions did you take that worked for you? What do you wish you would have done differently? Personally, I believe you can NEVER assume that simply because a person is involved in the same organization, church, website, etc. that you have the same beliefs, values, morals, and ethics. I believe that is a major mistake anywhere at any time. And before jumping in to any relationship, I would need a lot of time to truly get to know someone. That is, off-line, face to face, over a long period of time. And even then I might hire a P.I. But, hey, that's me. So, some of you who are experienced, pipe up!

And third aid and bless patrol. What a buncha crap. Third Aid could never do everything they knew they could and should do, because they were limited by TWI rules and regulations. Would love to hear from some of you docs and nurses who gave of your time there... One year some kind of really bad stomach virus was going around. I think this was probably 1992 or 1993. I got it and ended up at Third Aid feeling like I was gonna puke, but couldn't. They gave me a can of 7-up to sip on, and I came to the brink of up-chucking several times but never did. They told me that I would begin to feel better when I could throw up, but it was getting late and I had already been there several hours, so they told me I should just go back to my tent and rest, that I would eventually be ok, just stay hydrated. Good advice. So I left. Just befrore I got to the road behind all those meal tents, something about the heat, the humidity, and the smell of that food hitting my face brought me to finally vomit. Then I felt better. The relief was almost instantaneous. I was exhausted, though and suddenly very weak. I estimated that I had just enough energy to make it back to my tent and lay down. Unfortunately a BP lackey had seen me throw up and rushed to take me to Third Aid. When I told him I had just left there with specific instructions to lay down after having been there for several hours, he didn't believe me. He INSISTED I go with him to Third Aid so HE could be satisfied that I had actually been there, and that I was following their instructions. After exhausting my energies walking back to Third Aid, and standing around until he could verify I was telling the truth, he told me I could go back to my tent. Unfortunately I didn't have the energy to walk anymore. Give me a ride back to my tent on the cushman? Hell, no, he couldn't do that. He satisfied his own curiosity, then left me to struggle back to my tent while exhausted and barely able to walk. Another stow-ry for your edification: 1995, the last Millstone of the Millennium. I was walking down the road near the shower tents to go fill up a tea jar at the outdoor sinks. A people mover was making its way down my side of the road, so to make sure I wasn't in the way, I got off the pavement into the grass near a bunch of electrical boxes, and stepped into an unmarked, uncovered trench and snapped my ankle. Very quickly Bob Ed Wierwille was there with his radio. I told him I found a hole for him and immediately several buckets of sand were brought to fill the trench while I was still sitting there on the side of the road. I got a ride to the Third Aid trailer where they iced my ankle. I knew that nothing could be determined without an x-ray. So did the two consecutive nurses who examined me. Because it was my left ankle, I knew if I could just get a ride to my car, I could drive myself to the hosptial in St. Marys. But TWI had several layers of policies. They had to have their doctor look at my ankle to determine if it was necessary for me to go to the hospital (Why the hell can't I determine that myself?), and they had to page him from wherever he was to come look at it. I had to wait at least an hour and a half for him to show up. Then when it was determined that I needed an x-ray, they had to find someone from my branch to drive me there. I was supposed to be able to tell them where anyone from my branch of about 50 people were at any given moment on their grounds so they could go find them. Luckily for me, I could see the water spray from where I was sitting in the trailer, and recognized one of the Moms from my branch who just happened to be there with her kids. They collared her and she found someone who could drive me. This whole process took another couple hours-- to locate someone who could drive me, get their boss to clear them to take off work, get out to Third Aid, and then drive us to my car on a cushman. This delayed my treatment many more hours than was necessary. Had I been able to go when I was first injured, there would have been an orthopaedic specialist there to look at the x-rays and he would have seen my ankle was broken in three places. Instead, by the time I actually got to the hospital, that doc was gone and they only had a radiologist who could not read the x-rays properly and said it was a really bad sprain. I was sent out on crutches in an ace bandage, with an ankle broken in three places. I couldn't walk on the crutches and we ended up having to rent a wheelchair and push it around in the mud at ROA. What a fiasco. And it took about 5 or 6 more months to get the ankle properly diagnosed. What happened in the mean time is posted elsewhere. Won't bore you with the details, but leadership intervened again and made the problem physically infinitely worse.

Rock of Ages 1974, Shelby County Fairgrounds. I had returned from my first year as a WOW ambassador and suffered 4 nights in a tiny pup tent with two other girls, and the rain had washed us out. I was totally exhausted, was coming down with major head cold, and to top it all off, the ROA ended at night, with everyone having to leave the fairgrounds immediately after the evening teaching-- No overnight stay. I had dutifully packed our gear that afternoon, and my car had only enough room in it for myself and my sister who had met me there to help me drive back home from Ohio. When we tried to leave after the evening teaching, the parking lot was a muddy mess, with gobs of people stuck in the mud up to their bumpers. I was one of them. I had been directed to park in a low soft spot, and my car had slowly sunk into the mud over the rainly period, and when I tried to get out, I just got further in. We had to wait several hours for the one tow truck to finally get to my car. By that time I guess it was at least after midnight, and we faced an 8 hour drive home. We were both exhausted from spending 4 days in the weather, and me from a grueling year on the WOW field, but soldiered on. We stopped for coffee several times, meeting other believers along the way who were also trying to stoke up on the caffeine to stay awake. I drove as long as I could, but finally we needed to just stop and sleep. We pulled into a highway rest stop and a sign in front of us said "2 hour parking only." Not wanting to collect a ticket, I dutifully set my travel alarm clock for two hours and we went to sleep. It seemed like just a minute later, our time was up and we had to get back out on the road. It was around 4:30 am. I was getting sicker by the minute and my sister volunteered to take the wheel to let me rest a little more. So I let her drive and went back to sleep. I soon awoke to a huge crashing jolt as I was thrown to the floor. We had struck a guard rail. My exhausted sister had fallen asleep at the wheel and the car was careening across the road, spinning and ricocheting off guard rails across an overpass. I grabbed the wheel and guided the car to the roadside, as my sister was in shock. The car was totalled. We were very lucky to be alive. The State Trooper said we were lucky to have been on the overpass, otherwise we would have crossed the median. --And we were lucky to have the car as loaded down as it was, or we might have gone over the side of the overpass. Fortunately we only had some major bumps and bruises, but we had to wait four hours on a blanket in the hot sun at a gas station for my parents to drive up to pick us up. We were young and innocent, and did as we were told, obeying people whom we were taught had our best interests at heart. We were given no other option but to leave when we did, and in the condition we were. We were told we could not spend the night at the fairgrounds and leave the next day, we had to leave immediately after the EVENING teaching. So we left in the rain, ill and exhausted, after being stuck in the mud. The Way International put many thousands of people at risk by subjecting them to the extremes of weather, bringing them to the brink of exhaustion, and then forcing them out on the road simply because they didn't want to pay rent on the fairgrounds for an extra night. The value of your life to them always came down to money in one form or another.

Happy Anniversary! Very thankful for your contributions here and on WayDale!

I don't particularly miss the Millstone of the Millenium, and the internal clock left long ago. But, my daughter has mostly good memories of camping there when she was little, visiting the sprinklers, and going to the petting zoo with friends. We still find something very relaxing about listening to a gentle rain on the canvas roof of our gazebo. I do find it funny remembering a particular ordination during a raging thunderstorm, I think around 1985. As I walked to the tent in the storm I couldn't believe they didnt just reschedule it. And right during the ordination ceremony itself, a huge section of the tent roof gave way, drenching a bunch of the candidates. Anybody remember that one? A baptism with your ordination, anyone?

Unless we know the credentials of the folks who are "teaching," then with TWI's track record, the content is questionable at best and up for discussion. What makes that person an "expert" on the subject?

A very apt description of the co-opting of Leonard et al's teachings: Carjacking. Very apt.

Methinks Donna cuntingly distanced herself from her husband via Rosielie. --Gasp!--- Did I say that out loud? I been sooooooo baaaaaaaaad............. :o

Ofercryinoutloud! A$$3s so tight you couldn't pound a nail into 'em with a sledgehammer! God, thank you so much for delivering me from such insanity.

I don't know where he is, but I have to relate this funny incident about him. In 1973 he made an urgent trip to Greenville, SC to search for his fiance (my family coord) who had suddenly disappeared from the WOW field. I was driving him all over the city for several days. His bold, loud NY accent and demeanor stood out like a sore thumb in the slow, easy south. One Sunday morning, we decided to go to breakfast at a local restaurant, but I had a bad feeling about going into that place. While in line, Eddie was very LOUDLY talking and witnessing to everyone in line. The place was packed with folks fresh out of their Sunday morning church services. He really attracted attention-- all eyes in the place were upon us. The waitress showed us to a table-- a little tiny table for two, the kind you normally see propped up against a wall somewhere, but this one was in the middle of the crowded room. We sat down and Eddie continued his loud discourse and with a sweeping gesture, he accidently knocked his water glass in the floor. After the waitress cleaned up the mess, he dropped all his silverware into the floor when he unrolled his napkin. Flabbergasted, he said, "I can't believe this!" and as he was bending down to pick it all up he was leaning on the little table, which promptly tipped over onto the floor, sending dishes, glasses, silverware, and food everywhere. I couldn't stand the embarassment anymore. We both quickly got up to leave, and as I went to pull out my wallet from my purse at the cash register, a roll of pennies flew out and scattered all over the floor! I just handed a wad of bills to the cashier and told her to keep the change and ran out of the restaurant. Eddie and I laughed so much over the incident we both nearly peed ourselves! What a wild and crazy guy.

True, Igo. Can't count the number of times that things suddenly changed direction and no explanation was offerred. We had no right to know anything except what THEY felt we had a right to know. It was our job simply to "hop to," not question.