CoolWaters

Mark, we are agreeing in general...just disagreeing in semantics. IMO.

You said in your first post here what I'm saying: "Many of us were dissatisfied with what we saw going on in traditional, orthodox Christianity and believed that TWI was genuinely trying to get back to the 1st Century Church."

Being dissatisfied, in and of itself, is not good and is not bad.

My point is what twi was able to do with our thinking because we came to twi dissatisfied.

TWI honed in on that dissatisfaction, nurtured it, gave us other reasons to be dissatisfied, nurtured those, and then, after all the subtle love-bombing type of 'hints', finally out-and-out railed at us that there was something terribly wrong with us if we didn't want anything better for ourselves besides living, loving, giving and helping...and that 'better' being defined by twi.

But I think in many cases the manipulation was not so much to fill up a lack in their personal self-worth (i.e., didn't measure up) but to "help" people aspire to an ideal, perhaps,

• to develop a better knowledge of scripture
  
• to build a closer relationship with God
  
• to worship more in line with the first century church
  
• whatever other reason are out there
  

If one wants 'better' or 'closer' or 'more', one is wanting something different than what one has.

If one is satisfied with what one has, one does not go looking for something different.

The heart of the message of Jesus is to be satisfied with one's self in one's relationship with God. Not to be always questioning, always seeking something 'better', always measuring up to higher and higher standards.

John 17 is a great testament to what Jesus perceived as the standard.

TWI nurtured dissatisfaction.

TWI did this to keep people from sitting still long enough to see through twi's BS.

It's a technique.

Interesting discussion along the lines I'm thinking here: http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=8214

You quoted my statement, "The simple answer is that dissatisfied people are easily controlled...easily led around by a carrot on a stick."

I did not mean that as a judgment of any person, but as a statement about why twi pounded certain things into our heads.

The question I posed before I made that statement was, "...why was this pounded into our heads so deeply that we still carry it with us years and years later?"

My purpose was to point out that twi carefully manipulated us...by first pounding it into our heads that any dissatisfaction we felt in life was warranted because we didn't measure up...

And, believing within ourselves that there was something more to life than what we had, we were easily led.

It's the basis of any good sales schtick.

Why does this have to be a negative viewpoint?

I don't get that.

Only dissatisfied people look for 'answers'...as has been pointed out.

And if people are so dissatisfied as to follow other people's answers, that's not a judgment against anybody. Not on my part, at least. By bringing up the subject, my hope was to point out twi indoctrination. If anyone is taking it as a judgment on my part, I'm not the one attaching any judgment...

Good point.

How often is that message mixed with service to God, service to God's people, service to an organization that promises to make one the BEST possible God person?

It was not just an advertisement to buy products in twi...it was a way of life EXPECTED as a standard from all as proof of one's righteousness.

There's a huge difference between that and other urgings to go for a better life.

IMO.

OK, in ExC's 'way corps scum' thread something was said about being the best and being with the best.

That hit me right in the old twit brain.

Especially after talking with my daughter last evening.

She turned 29 in May...and is now in the throes of growing up...finally. Her chief complaint is, "Ma, I want to do something with my life! There's got to be something better in life than going to work, coming home, watching some TV, having a couple of beers, going to bed and starting it all over the next day. Yeah, that may be the good life, but I want the best life possible!"

To which I said, "I totally get that, Katy. Your apple hasn't fallen too far from my tree. I wish I hadn't raised you to be like that...but I did...and now you're going to have to sort out what, if anything, that means to you. I don't know where I got that mentality, but there it is."

Well, I got that mentality from twi...and until I read that statement in the 'scum' thread, I had forgotten that part of twi indoctrination.

Isn't it odd to always be unsatisfied with life? To always think there's something better...and something even better...and then something even better than that...until there's only the BEST?

This is a common theme I see among exwafers. Always searching for...something. Always looking beyond the next horizon for...something. Always wondering just what one's calling is in life, or...something.

This isn't even scriptural! Although it was pounded into us that it is...with verses like the one about pressing toward the mark of the high calling...about being perfect, throughly perfected. The whole mentality of being the BEST is simply not scriptural.

Quite the opposite, in fact.

Yet here it is, even this many years out of twi, sticking in our hearts and minds as THE goal.

Isn't that just odd?

And the real question is, why was this pounded into our heads so deeply that we still carry it with us years and years later?

The simple answer is that dissatisfied people are easily controlled...easily led around by a carrot on a stick.

I saw something similar when I went to Chicago's Museum of Science and Industry...back in the 6th grade.

I was fascinated back then...and am fascinated now.

This doesn't seem to be much different than using bodies for college courses in Anatomy...except that it's out there for the general public to see...as if it is 'art'...and not many people are sure if they like such things as 'art'. However, I don't think children see it as 'art', but as a very interesting, quite educating experience.

I dunno...I think things like this are good for folks...especially as far removed from reality as today's society is about such things. Kinda like taking city kids to a farm to see where hamburger, sausage and hot dogs come from..."MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM! THEY'RE KILLING BAAAAAAAAAAAAAABY COWS FOR FOOD!"

Thank you for sharing that here.

My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.

My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

John 17:15, 20, 21 NIV

Keeping you and all involved, both here and there, and all families, both 'theirs' and 'ours', in my heart's prayers.

My first (and second...since they were the same man) husband was gay. I dunno know if that was the cause of our divorces, though. TWI messed heavily in our marriages...HEAVILY. I often thought throughout the years that I could have coped with him being gay. I dunno, though. I was pretty put off about no sex in the marriage. Maybe if I'd been more prone to cheating or something...

So I dunno.

Oh yeah...he passed away several years later...and I remarried several years before...so I really dunno.

TYVM {{{{toppie}}}}! :D

Watersedge, you've got to be in chat when toppie's in there! She's a riot. Well, so is everybody else. OK...just keep coming back so you get the treat of meeting all of us.

THELMA DARLENE LOUISE!!!!! You ARE NOT ALLOWED to live such a full life that we don't know where you're at and what you're doing at all times!

OK...JUST JOKING.

Soooooooooo good to see your handle pop up!!! I was freakin' out!

I miss ya sis!

{{{{Belle}}}}

Oh that's just a rumor T-Bone.

{{{{watersedge}}}}

I didn't say much (which is VERY odd for me, btw lol), but I loved that you were listening to Stairway to Heaven and could appreciate my Procul Harum remark to your remark about being the only guy in chat was like being in with the harem (or whatever it was you said lol). LMAO. Heck, you didn't even correct my spelling! (If you get a chance to meet Sushi in chat, this spelling remark will be all the funnier. LOL)

Chat is like sitting around a big, never ending, totally unscheduled, huge extended family holiday dinner table, imo. The conversation is often fast and furious (especially with us gals), sometimes very serious, often just plain uproarious, and sometimes if you don't jump in there with both feet you'll just have to listen. LOL Most importantly, everybody is welcome at the table.

Every single person at GSC has walked (crawled, rolled, ran, or sat upon, even) a path marred with pain, loss, sorrow, shame, fear and everything in between. We've seen victories over these things...be the victories small or be they huge...and the vast majority of us are so very thankful that others were there to light our feet upon what had otherwise been a very dark, very lonely, very isolated and very scary path. We just want to be a lamp unto the feet of others...extend a hand to hold, a shoulder to cry upon, a back to rest upon, an ear to listen, a belly laugh to get ya through. :)

Chat's just the place to really get in and get to know one another.

I'm so glad you had such a good experience! I'm looking forward to yakking it up with you lots more! We don't have a 12 step program for chat addiction, yet...but I hear tell Paw and some of his techies are working on the patch. Hehehehe. (Oh yeah...the best rumors are born in chat or when talking about what happened in chat. LMAO)

WACKO I get! TYVM.

I had a friend there at the time it happened. He couldn't get a call off to anybody except his wife...and that was done with great difficulty and several hours after the dust settled.

It was no hoax.

I understand loss, too...loss in horrible, senseless, insane acts of terrorism.

That's no hoax, either.

I'm sorry for all losses we have all suffered...via terrorism...like this...or like that in twi...it's all the same in the end: insanity.

I think that people who tell other people they are sick and need medication are sick and need medication.

Unless, of course, the person doing the telling is the diagnosing physician of the person being told.

Barring that scenario, it's just the same thing as what corpse did to people.

IMO.

Of course, we all know that I was diagnosed by a few GSCers years ago with MPD and various sundry illnesses and needs for medication.

I'm sure that right after I post this, I'll wish I'd listen to my GSC professional care team and checked myself in...or out...depending on the mood of the team...

So, wtf...don't listen to me...I'm just a disgruntled patient of the GSC professional care team...

My diagnosis?

EVERYBODY MUST GET STONED.

Ummm...er...what I meant really was EVERYBODY TAKE YOUR MEDS.

So there you have it...

Didn't we have a RIOT of a good time!!!!

Click here for some background music!

Kansas City

I'm going to Kansas City,

Kansas City here I come

I'm going to Kansas City,

Kansas City here I come

They got a crazy way of loving there

And I'm gonna get me some.

I'll be standing on the corner

On the corner of Twelfth Street and Vine

I'm gonna be standing on the corner

On the corner of Twelfth Street and Vine

With my Kansas City baby

And a bottle of Kansas City wine.

Well I might take a train, I might take a plane,

but if I have to walk

I'm gonna get there just the same

I'm going to Kansas City,

Kansas City here I come

They got a crazy way of loving there

And I'm gonna get me some.

I'm gonna pack my clothes

Leave at the break of dawn

I'm gonna pack my clothes

Everybody will be sleeping

Nobody will know where I've gone

Cause if I stay in town I know I'm gonna die.

Gotta find a friendly city

And that's the reason why,

I'm going to Kansas City

Kansas City here I come

They got a crazy way of loving there

And I'm gonna get me some.

Toppie...please tell me that woman's bad wig was not a....oh my...dare I say it...uh oh...I feel giggle fits coming on...OMG...it wasn't a MERKIN was it?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Oh! Stop! You're killing me!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

That'd be too much...the MERKIN Q....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

In the grocery store...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

While you're giggling about the Q...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

I was really hoping that someone with some experience with the airlines would show me a way to work the system so I didn't have to pay so much extra to change my flight. That is all hind-site now.

So there ya go! You've made your decision and it is OK with you. Have fun and be sure to let us know how it went and if you found what you were looking for, please. :)

I think, watersedge, you can see we're pretty used to folks coming 'outta the closet' around here...and pay far more attention to beer and pizza delivery.

So welcome to GSC!

WN, have you met this grandmother before? Is there a bond between you and she? Are you going just for hubby's sake?

I dropped everything to meet my biological family. Drug my whole family from CA to KS, too. Did it just before the end of the school year, too, so I interrupted my daughter's schooling.

It was not worth it, in the end. Sure, I got all of my questions answered. Sure, I met 4 people before they died. Sure I learned a whole lot about my 'roots'.

But in the end, the cost to my family, to me, to my daughter's schooling, to my emotional and mental well-being...these costs were too high...in the end.

I could have done 90% of this 'meeting' and 'getting the whole story' via telephone and letters. Now, the internet would allow me to have done 90% of it all via email, IM and web cam.

My point here is that you have other options for connecting with this grandmother.

Do you have other options on your job? Is this a 'last chance' for a promotion? Is your employer so staunch because there is a hiring time frame/interview process required by some ordinance or code or law? Or is your employer being so staunch because this is your employer's way of weeding out those not seriously pursuing advancement? Or is there something that makes you not as qualified or desirable (experience, longevity at the job, etc.) for the position, so your employer does not feel that changing the time for the interview is validated?

Most of the time we feel the tug of God primarily because that's what we want to do...and our hearts pull so hard on us that it feels like God.

Is there going to be a financial burden if you don't get the promotion?

Think about after this exciting thing of meeting the grandmother and getting the whole story. If you lose an opportunity, will it have been worth this thing?

Only you can decide.

Good luck!

WN...yeah...the pizza girl...I spewed coffee all over my screen when I read that...LMAO.

Roy, you have a pizza girl? And how do you know not to give her beer? I'm telling ya dude, this explains a WHOLE LOT about you!

Just don't you DARE say the 'q' word around me ever again!!!!!!!!!!!!

For some reason I am worn out tonight. Feel kinda like something caught up with me finally. My belly muscles are sore, my face cheeks are sore, my shoulders are sore. Feels kinda like I've been giggling and guffawing and LOLing for several hours...

Use what?

OK. So long as somebody has one.