CoolWaters

BTW...do we have an Official Head Count yet?

Well, Y, disagree. So what?

Last night I spent several hours with a good friend who can keep up with me when it comes to colorful conversation. But we were in one of Kansas City's swankiest dining rooms...and her pre-teen daughter was present. Not a single vulgarity, act of rudeness, or any other form of 'off-color' activity crept into the merriment.

To me, it's important to know with whom you are conversing.

Via this thread I found out that someone who normally does not say a thing about anybody's 'off-color' conversation is really bothered by such conversation. I wish the person had said something before...they would have been spared being made uncomfortable around me...at least on my part.

We certainly did have a TERRIFIC time, toppie!

Exquisite food, exquisite company, exquisite memories.

Who could ask for anything better?

I was looking forward to GGGW...but with some brooding nervousness about it all. Now I am completely at ease that GGGW is going to be a rip-roaring good time that we're going to be talking about and cherishing until next year's GGGW.

Well, Keith, the question implies the definition of "'readjusted' teachings" to be teachings taken from twi and revamped. If a group takes twi's teaching and builds from there, imo it is simply a different form of twi.

The heart behind me asking the question was to get people thinking about whether or not the monstrous influence of twi got bigger or got smaller due to people leaving.

{{{{David}}}} {{{{LV}}}}

Praying fervently.

Been watching worldwide weather trends lately...and prayer is needed. Water levels are dropping, crops are not thriving, people are getting sick, wild animals and bugs and such are not mating normally, and a whole lot of stuff is not going very well.

TY.

Ron....HS is gonna be doggin' ya now ya know.

Very nice, Wacky, very nice. TY for sharing. :D

We left twi before POP. Well, I should say we were only peripherally involved. I never heard or received the spittle flinging, ear shattering, face melting, butt reaming, potty-mouthed fits of apoplectic rage often described here on GSC. So I wasn't even considering that aspect of how some would feel about vulgarity, rudeness, etc.

My apologies.

That being said, I do prefer that people just say what they're thinking straightforwardly...even if that means it comes out a la an lcm fit. I listen to folks who are just up front and honest with me.

Talk to me in 'sweet', 'understanding', 'polite' terms while you're dissing me...well !@^& ya.

And, OH! Try coming off as one of the 'good guys/gals' when in truth you're just a sneaky, underhanded, manipulative, bigoted, arrogant, prejudiced, ignorant, controlling somethingorother...well, I'll just ignore ya.

Life is too short to give such people more than the 30 seconds or so it takes to see through them.

(See, David...my vocabulary really isn't all that 'limited'...I just LOVE to cuss. I'm teasing ya, dude.)

What has been described here (the potty t-shirts, the persistent potty-mouth in front of children, such things) is not acceptable to me, either. Children are to be cared for, not exposed to things they don't need to be exposed to...especially if it is not acceptable to their parents. Other people have the right to general respect, too. My potty mouth usually does not show up until I am pretty sure that nobody is going to feel disrespected. I can usually tell...but if I'm being dense, I prefer somebody just ask me not to use such language around them...unless, of course, they are asking simply because they want to exert control in a situation...which is another subject...imo.

Scout...you are a she...?

I'm so sorry I didn't get that! Well ignore my advice about getting with men...it's not gonna help much...except for enteratinment value.

I feel so stupid now!

TYVM, toppie! :wub:

But how come a penny/shilling is bad in the first place? Usually these sayings come from a very real situation. Were shillings poisonous at one time or something?

And NO WAY is coolchef a bad penny!

I'll be turning 48 in October. Due to health reasons, I had a total hysterectomy less than a month after I turned 40...which abruptly threw me into menopause...which screwed with me big time...until I adjusted to it all.

Anyway, being a woman has its own natural indicators of life changes. Men, I dunno how you all know what's what when. OK...maybe you don't. Just teasin'.

I'm with Jard in that I seek out women who have been down a path before me...who can and will be a light unto my feet while I am upon a path.

For me, the women of GSC have been the brightest, most loving, most caring, funniest, most knowledgeable, and just plain old the BEST women to bring the light to my feet. I think it's because the women of GSC get it when it comes to being a lamp instead of being a chain. All of the experiences of being in twi...and the resulting experiences...I think these things have made women of GSC far more sagacious than other women I have known. Or maybe I just prefer their company in general.

What I'm saying is that finding some men who have 'been there, done that' could be a hoot and quite helpful. Pick their brains (no, no, no, no...leave their noses alone), listen to their stories, allow them to see you 'as you are'.

As far as knowing what to do next or how to make life changes...

This is the time in life to listen to your heart, imo.

It has been my experience that the first 47 odd years of my life was a time when I lived up to expectations, let others tell me what was right for me, allowed myself to be sublimated for the sake of children, jobs, material things, marriages, whathaveyou.

Now I'm looking back to the person I was before twi, before marriage, before children, before 'career goals', before I became somebody else's somethingorother.

And I tell ya what...

That person is the person I'm shaping myself into these days. She was self-reliant, capable, aware, talented, joyous, exuberant, and all the things that I have lost of her throughout the years. But I haven't really lost those things...they're inside me still...and bringing them out so I can play is just downright ALIVE!

I've decided to spend the rest of my life playing. Everything I do is going to be for my enjoyment. The things that come along in life that I have no control over and that I don't enjoy, well, I'm going to disperse with those things immediately and get on with playing. I've been too close to death for too long to do anything else now that I'm in recovery.

So, above all else, enjoy yourself!

It's sooooooooo nice to have another COOL person around...

You're not a bad anything!

And what is a 'bad penny' anyway? What does that mean?

When I was 19yo my boyfriend (now husband) moved me from Kansas to California...to be a fisherman's wife! The culture shock was bad enough...but living onboard a boat and having only fishermen and their families for company...well, it was eye-opening to say the least.

But dang if I didn't learn to LOVE cussin' like a sailor! And telling tawdry jokes...and just fitting in quite nicely.

So nothing much bugs me about words people use in their conversations, jokes they tell, subjects they talk about.

Hubs and I were talking this morning about something that happened in AK in twi...when he told some off-color jokes...and the branch leader (who later became a convicted pedophile) reamed my hubs for nearly an hour about how my hubs was introducing debbil spurts.

We wondered how people felt about such things after being out of twi. So...

What bugs you?

What are your definitions of vulgarity, rudeness, and other things that bug you?

Are you ever so bothered by such things that you put people on ignore...or...GASP...even report the post?

I have some familiarity with this kinda stuff :B)

Really?

So here's a question I've been wondering about...and you don't have to respond at all...I'm just curious...

How do the sentiments expressed in this thread and a couple of others come across to an HR person?

I'm thinking a prayer to cover this thread against being used to the detriment of people would be in order...

Oak...you oughta run the HR depts of the world, man! :D

I can hear Jesus now...

"Father, there are these certain types of people that I don't really like at all. You've got places in Your Holy Book that says these people are worthy of being french fried.

Father, I know You sent me to die for ALL, but, Father, just this once, since the person asking is such a great BELIEVER, could Ya, would Ya PLEASE french fry Raul and that guy that 'swayed' past another terrific BELIEVER? I'd be forever in Your debt, Father. Thank you very much! I claim this in the name of Myself. Amen"

Yeppers...good ol' Gawd LOVES a great gossip session...

Yowzah! I understood every word!!!

:blink:

Back in his teen days my husband was in a very similar accident...and he was the one on the bike.

Disturbing clip...but on target, imo.

Ginger is on my heart every single day. We lost contact in my moves and personal crises There are so many things that Ginger has taught me and walked me through.

I've been having dreams and visions about her for weeks and weeks now. Nothing earth shattering revelatory or anything. Mostly being together with her in spirit. Via these dreams and visions, I had a good idea what was going on, but it's not the same as reading the bald words here. This thread took my breath away.

There are sooooooooo many things that Ginger has imparted to me that have helped me tremendously. "Attach no expectations, CoolWaters!" she would tell me over and over and over again. It took me like forever to get it, but I'm getting it. "Even if you don't get the book--and I highly recommend you do--remember to 'Chop Wood, Carry Water'." Well, I still have not got the book, but I remember what she has shared with me from the book...and I hold the concepts in my heart. In fact, my whole life, my whole thinking processes, my whole concept of what it is to be alive is changing because of what Ginger has taught me.

She sent me a book some time ago...one that I keep by my bedside and use constantly. I've even been able to share with others what is in that book. How she knew what that book would mean in my life, I dunno...except that she's Ginger...that's what she does!

Ginger...she's quite a gift to this old world!

Please tell her how much she is loved. Please tell her every ounce of my being is utilizing every little detail she taught to me as I keep her in my heart and prayers and meditations. Please tell her I and many others are with her in spirit. Please.

I LOVE House!!!!!!!!!!! I also love Gordon Ramsey (Hell's Kitchen) and Simon Cowell (American Idol). Maybe I just have some sort of personality disorder...

Anyway, hubs turned me on to House when it first came out. A co-worker of his told him about the show. We're addicts! LOL

4400...I got bored with it right off the bat.

24...intense...but more intense than necessary, imo.

Joey...I got bored quickly.

Out of Practice...haven't seen.

Dang! The things one can find out about another on GSC!

So Jonny's gay and Mark's got two wives? And what's this about Vickles?

Well, I'm telling no secrets here...at least not right now...hehehe.

Anyway, married/divorced twice to the same man, then married my current hubs just over 26 years ago.

OK, OM, how much tweaking would it take to make it not twi material any longer?

Does it matter, OM, if the material gets tweaked here and there?

Good to see you again, btw.

johniam,

You bring up some valid points.

The point about 1st grade is a good one because it separates the material from the teacher(s). I am hearing that no matter who teaches you 1st grade, you gotta learn it somehow.

Exploring that line a bit more...

It is common knowledge that not all children learn what they need to learn in 1st grade. Some school districts opt for certain material while others opt out of that same material. I don't know if there are national standards for what to teach in 1st grade (or any other grade for that matter).

I'm more knowledgeable about college courses...what can be transferred, what can't...what expires after so many years, what doesn't. Any group can have a 'college' (like twi), but not every college is accredited. The material is very important. As is the teacher. Anybody can teach something, but not everybody is qualified to teach, oh, let's say English 101.

I think it is the same with twi material and the 'teachers'. Is it good enough material to measure up to certain standards? Are the 'teachers' qualified and able to measure up to certain standards?

Because twi material (or any church's material) deals with religion, most people don't even consider measuring the material against any standard...except their own emotional standards...like, "I had never before understood things so clearly", or, "I had never before met anybody so sure of themselves."

And lawdy don't get me started on the 'teachers'!!!!! <_<

VPW had enough actual education to be qualify as at least a substitute teacher outside of twi. LCM has enough education to qualify as a teacher outside of twi. From what I've read, RR is--or was--a teacher outside of twi.

And we all learned...quite well, to boot.

Then there were the other 'teachers'...those totally unqualified people put in leadership positions who took what they were taught and mostly (imo) bullied it onto the rest of us. And, more often than not, skewed what they were taught to the point that I don't think there is any group of more than 10 people on GSC who were taught the same material. Maybe we took the same classes, but how those classes were interpreted in individual fellowships...well...you've seen the arguments here. :B)

In the end, twi is an abusive, narrow-minded cult...both because of the material and because of the 'teachers'.

Which is probably the point that is at the root of my question.

And now to this statement of yours: "There's a lot of "revisionist history" going on here. People who in TWI were genuinely delivered from bad stuff yet now they claim TWI screwed up their whole lives."

For many, many years my thoughts went in this direction. In fact, this thinking has been at the back of mind all along. Until just last night...when I read something in the book, Thief of Souls by Darian North. On pages 132 and 133. The conversation is between a man (Dan), whose wife disappeared into a cult, and a deprogrammer.

"How do cults instill their victims with such fear of being saved?" Dan asked quietly.

"By 'saved' I assume you mean saved from the cult--and you're talking about the distress and fear that victims show when someone tries to get them out and return them to their normal lives."

"Yes."

"Some people think it's related to the Stockholm syndrome, where victims begin to identify with their kidnappers, but I see it as a lot less exotic than that. I see it as a twisting around of some basic human needs and insecurities. If you think about it, at any given time most people have something they'd like to be saved from--unhappiness, depression, loneliness, stress, emptiness, joblessness, addiction, self-hatred, uncertainty, bad grades in school, divorce, thinning hair...you name it. Cults catch people during vulnerable periods and offer a sort of blanket salvation, saving people by taking control of their lives and eliminating free will. Do you follow me?"

"I'm not sure."

"It's like a return to childhood, where you're taken care of and you're not responsible for making your own decisions anymore."

"But that wouldn't necessarily cure depression or stress or thinning hair," Dan said.

"The surrender of self feels so good that it seems like the cult has taken away every burden. People feel like they've been saved because they no longer have choice or the power to change things, and so the weight of changing or curing whatever was wrong is lifted from them. And in some cases they actually have been saved. Addicts are cleaned up because they no longer have access to substances. Joblessness is cured by joining a commune-style cult because work is then assigned by the cult. Lots of psychological problems are cured because the cult keeps people so busy and exhausted and overwhelmed with rhetoric that they never have an opportunity to think or to realize that their lives still aren't perfect. Do you follow what I'm saying now?"

"Yes."

"So--it's not that people resist being returned to their normal lives because they're afraid of being saved. They believe the cult saved them from their other lives. The cult is the savior. And outsiders are seen as trying to rip them out of paradise. Which means that what I have to do is convince them that their cult's leader is a false savior. That the cult is based on lies and manipulations. Then I show them that true salvation is in returning to the real world and the people who love them."

So I no longer see that anybody was 'delivered' in twi. I now see that people were kept too busy, too rattled, too something to be concerned with or continue in their problems.

A perfect example of this is how people literally denied and ignored health problems in twi. Once they got out of twi, suddenly they were sick. They even thought that the prediction of bad things happening because they left twi was truth. Until they realized that they were sick in twi but just denied and ignored it all.

And I see that those of us who simply jump on the next bandwagon that beats a similar drum as twi's don't change out of the cult mentality. I can say "us" because I went there and did that...so I'm not judging anybody.