CoolWaters

It seems as though the most often repeated sentiment in this thread is that we all deal with something.

Successful, long-term interpersonal relationships are difficult enough in 3D. Here on the internet they are next to impossible.

For example, I met White Dove more than 30 years ago. I've known him off and on throughout the years. More off than on. Who he was over 30 years ago is not who he is now even if it seems that way to me. And vice versa. If I were to say something like, "White Dove has always been the same and will never change," that is telling of my inability to comprehend reality. However if I say, "White Dove was always kind to me," when asked what I think of him, that is telling of my willingness to remember his kindness.

Neither statements are the whole truth about White Dove. I couldn't possibly know the whole truth about him unless I lived with him throughout all those 30+ years. Even then I wouldn't know his whole truth.

(Sorry Brother Dove for 'picking' on you...you're just the one person I've known the longest who also frequents GSC.)

My point is something Ginger Tea (Remember her? I miss her.) said to me a few years back: "Attach no expectations, CoolWaters."

It made no sense to me then...and I tried and tried to make it make sense...but now I know exactly what she was saying to me.

Attach no expectations.

It's becoming my mantra...hopefully. :)

Relationships with those diagnosed with mental illness are difficult at best...insane at worst.

It was said that someone wants to have relationships with healthy people...and it was said that someone didn't know when a person was in a healthy mode or in the throes of the disease.

That's the problem in a nutshell, imo.

So, imo, if I tell you that I have PTSD and depression, that's the 'warning' or the 'opportunity' or whatever one wants to call it for you to decide how much time, energy, longevity and tough rows to hoe you want to go through with me as a friend.

Abi, I totally get that being a cyber friend is all you can do right now. Sheesh, like you said, with your plate so full you have hardly enough time and energy and stuff for low-maintenance friends! I absolutely respect that you just came out and said so, too. :) It wasn't like a closer friendship would be possible given our long distance from each other, anyway. :)

Now here's the clincher, imo: when do I tell people?

I mean, seriously, do I introduce myself to you as, "Hi! I'm Vicky. I have PTSD and depression. Do you want to be my friend?" LOL I wouldn't do that, but some may think I should. But it's like having cancer or diabetes, imo. It's just something that comes up in the getting-to-know-you conversations. At least I think it should. Maybe that's not a good time, either. I dunno. I'm outted now for the whole world, so it doesn't really matter, huh? LOL

Oh! And the worst of it all is when two people in the throes of an episode are trying to make friends!!!!! Yikes!!!! I have come to realize that all but a handful of relationships I call friendships were made while one or both of us were having episodes. Explains a whole lot, imo.

And don't add in denial!!!!!!!!!!!! If someone is in denial of what's happening with them, LOOK OUT!!!!!!!!!!

Personally, THAT is what happened in twi. IMO.

::shiver::

Well, what I'm trying to say is that I am far more aware of myself now than I was a week ago. That's a good thing. It's also a difficult thing...because now I have to be more careful of who I call friend...for both my sake and theirs.

Sigh.

Wow. I was holding my breath waiting for the 'devil spirit' or 'you need God's peace' crowd to jump square on my head. Wow! TYVM {{{{all}}}.

Chas, the diagnoses pre-date the diabetes and the diabetes has been under control for a couple of weeks steadily now. The care team did say that next to doing what I am supposed to do for the mental problems, taking care of the diabetes is the most important part of my well-being. On the other hand, taking care of my mental health will cause me to take care of the diabetes. It's kinda a vicious circle once it's out of hand.

Abigail, what you say about involvement with those who are untreated...I wholeheartedly agree.

One of the things I know about me is that when I'm in full blown panic mode, I say awful things to people. Doesn't make for good friendships...and nobody should be expected to live with such verbal abuse as part of a friendship.

On the other hand, I have learned that friends will call my care team and not abandon me, condemn me, pull the 'devil spirt' card out on me, etc.

I was once described as a "high-maintenance" friend.

Yeah. Very.

Then again, my therapist has told me that the friends I need are those who will not try to fix me themselves or expect things out of me that I cannot give...or be hurt, insulted, or in any other way feel personally affronted when my illness acts up. In other words, I need to make friends who grasp what it is to be friends with someone like me.

How does the unsuspecting world cope with such a thing? Well, I always felt responsible for how others cope...now I know better.

If a new friend is showing signs of problems, then it is the responsibility not of the new friend, but of one's self to make the decisions about how deep one's involvement with the new friend will become.

Does that make sense?

The following are the definitions I am using for this post (all definitions taken from http://www.dictionary.com ):

1)stig-ma

–noun

1. a mark of disgrace or infamy; a stain or reproach, as on one's reputation.

2)shaming

–verb (used with object)

5. to cause to feel shame; make ashamed: His cowardice shamed him.

6. to drive, force, etc., through shame: He shamed her into going.

7. to cover with ignominy or reproach; disgrace.

3)hating

–verb (used without object)

3. to feel intense dislike, or extreme aversion or hostility.

4)manipulating

tr.v.

3. To influence or manage shrewdly or deviously

4.To tamper with or falsify for personal gain

5)controlling

–noun

6. the act or power of controlling; regulation; domination or command

7. the situation of being under the regulation, domination, or command of another

6)PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)

n

an anxiety disorder associated with serious traumatic events and characterized by such symptoms as

survivor guilt, reliving the trauma in dreams, numbness and lack of involvement with reality, or recurrent

thoughts and images

7)Clinical Depression

n

4. Psychology. A psychiatric disorder characterized by an inability to concentrate, insomnia, loss of

appetite, anhedonia, feelings of extreme sadness, guilt, helplessness and hopelessness, and thoughts of

death. Also called clinical depression.

Yesterday afternoon I came home from 5 days on the psych ward due to thoughts of suicide, terror, sadness, confusion, emotional and mental exhaustion and hoplessness. Basically I was walking on the wrong side of the precipice of a breakdown.

Several events over the last several months came together to trigger this in my life. It is not important to this topic for me to go into details...nor is it healthy for me.

What I want to discuss is how people see those of us with mental illnesses.

In 1974 I was diagnosed with severe depression. In 1989 I was also (finally) diagnosed with PTSD.

I was hospitalized twice in 1974 following many suicide attempts (over 20). This week was the only other time I've been hospitalized.

The first question (after intake) I was asked is how did I avoid being hospitalized for more than 30 years. The only answer I could give them was what twi taught about "giving in" to 'devil spirits'.

Of course it took hours and hours to explain how that twit brained mentality was taught and fostered in twi. I even had to show my care team many GSC posts and documents before they began to grasp the hold twi had/has over people's thinking processes.

Once they understood, they said that it was not much different in other religious groups or even in society as a whole. People who are diagnosed with mental illnesses simply are often today's lepers...which usually drives the disease deeper and most often prevents those with the disease from getting treatment.

Tell me about it. Sigh.

In the end, it was determined that I have been suffering full blown, unrelenting PTSD and Depression since 2001. As many of you know, that is the year my husband had kidney cancer and was nearly killed in a head-on collision...and is also the year an extwi 'minister' told me, "Anybody can see your life is $h*t". I laid down to die and nearly succeeded. I should have been hospitalized then.

Anyway, here I am today. I now have a combination of medicine that is helping somewhat. But just like with diabetes, I will be dealing with and treating these mental diseases for the rest of my life.

At least I understand that now...and I am no longer am too ashamed to seek help when I need it.

So how do you feel about those of us diagnosed with mental illnesses?

(If this thread becomes too much for me to handle, I will not post on it or look at it for my own well-being.)

TYVM

MURDERER OF INDEPENDENCE FAMILY | Ohio Supreme Court sets date

Cult leader to be executed

Jeffrey Lundgren killed five people in 1989 in a Cleveland suburb.

By BRIAN BURNES

The Kansas City Star

A religious cult leader convicted of killing a family of five from Independence in 1989 will be executed Oct. 10, the Ohio Supreme Court ruled Thursday.

Jeffrey Lundgren, 56, was convicted of shooting to death a man, his wife and three daughters. The family had moved from Missouri in 1987 to follow Lundgren’s teachings. He referred to the killings as “pruning the vineyard.”

The case riveted the Kansas City area for months, and memories remain strong with many people today.

Lundgren formed a religious cult after he was dismissed in 1987 as a lay minister of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, today known as the Community of Christ.

Several people moved with him to a rented farmhouse about 30 miles east of Cleveland, Ohio, where they called him “Dad” and contributed money for group expenses.

The victims were Dennis Avery, 49; his wife, Cheryl, 46; and daughters Trina, 15; Rebecca, 13, and Karen, 7.

On April 17, 1989, the Avery family was invited to dinner and then led to a barn. They were bound and placed into a pit, where Lundgren shot each one. Police in Kirtland, a Cleveland suburb, found Dennis Avery’s body Jan. 3, 1990, leading to Lundgren’s arrest days later in California.

A jury convicted him of five counts of aggravated murder and five counts of kidnapping. Lundgren said a combination of messages from the Bible had told him to kill the Averys.

Cult members testified that although the Averys were members of the sect, Lundgren considered them less enthusiastic.

(Bolding added by me.)

~~~~snip~~~~

Full article.

Chatty,

Yeah, me too! :D Can you believe I was scared to meet Sudo?!?!?!?!?! Sometimes I am dumber than a sack of rocks. Sigh.

As for Patsy, I didn't follow it all, but from what I hear tell from folks like you, I, too, am glad she died with some hope.

Not only does Rascal play the guitar but she sings quite sweetly...and knows most of the words!

I had been wanting to meet Rascal face-to-face for a long, long time. Never in a million years did I think that would happen in her home. What a gracious hostess! And her children are just beyond imagination when it comes to kindness, graciousness, humor, understanding and just being fun kids.

Sitting there hanging out with this remarkable family soothed some deep fears I've always had about being in the South. In fact, until I sat in Rascal's home and soaked up that family's particular magic, I was in a deep panic about being in the South. Rascal and her children changed all that for me. :)

Many, many thanks to Bowtwi for taking me along to the Roast and to Rascal's. I'll never be able to repay such a gift.

Now the news is saying this whole "confession" may be a hoax. Things about it just don't add up...like, for starters, the guy said he intended to drug and rape, but there were no drugs found in her system.

Sheesh.

Shame.

In my life it has been the very most damaging weapon I have ever experienced. And when it sticks its ugly head up even now, I become either a whimpering fool or a raving lunatic. I am still very controlled by shame.

Whatever you need to do to NOT be controlled by shame, I say go for it.

People who use shame are murderers of the soul, imo.

Boobies? Where are her boobies? I wanna see boobies! Mama!

I dunno, Belle...

I think that there are many different aspects of this...some had this habit before twi, some learned it in twi, some never picked it up....some found it helpful for understanding some things, some found it helpful for hurting others and defending themselves, some found it all hogwash.

I do know that I just went through two situations where straining gnats turned something very good into something evil...and the 'possessed' word was even lobbed at someone. It was all done so as to avoid facing something.

It can be informative, clarifying and fun when one pays attention to semantics. Usually most people don't know the meanings of words well enough to prevent a whole lot of pain, though.

Regardless, many relationships boil down to semantics...

Know what I mean jelly bean?

WOW!

Gawd I hope this is the real thing.

I will say THIS WAS ONE THE VERY BEST WEEKS OF MY LIFE!!!!!

Bowtwi is a friend extraordinaire! Her daughter is wunnerful!

MY GAWD the people I've met this week!!!!!!!!!!

The highlight of the weekend was Rascal and her brood. Wowsa!!!!!!!!!

This must have been the Kissing Roast. I do declare the goings on!!!!!!!!!

It was GREAT to see Mr and Mrs Sudo together!!!! Their son is a hoot! His father's son and his mother's joy.

Littlehawk and his son were just plain old WUNNERFUL!

Well, I didn't have a camera with me so I have no pics to post. Sorry. I will say that Sudo and Bowtwi have blackmail pictures enough to keep me in line for eternity...

Sigh.

The floating cabins are pontoon boats?

No. The floating cabins are cabins on floats. They are on the opposite end of the campground we all were on. Don't know if anybody got any pics of them, though.

I circled the floating cabins in Sudo's pic:

VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY GOOD WORK, MO!!!!!!!!!!!!

TYVM for posting this!!!!!!!!!!

Um, how does he get away with not registering in AK, disappearing, and popping back up without going back to prison?

Do you know? If not, how would I find out?

emailed ya

The Way International as an organization is still alive and doing not too badly according to latest financial reports available. IMO.

TWI doesn't need numbers to exist. Dollars do just fine. Most dollars reproduce themselves once a certain level is reached...if invested and/or used well. Once the dollars start reproducing, who needs people?

So, imo, the question of 'salvaging' twi as an organization is not a viable question because twi the organization has not been shipwrecked or in peril or in any other way knocked out of operation.

So what is left to salvage? The fellowship? The teaching? The abundant life? The research?

As has been pointed out, these things were imaginary as it concerns twi. WE, us all, THE PEOPLE, made the good things happen with one another. TWI the organization had nothing to do with anything good happening. The organization was set up to be a financial tool. Nothing more, nothing less. And it has served its purpose and served it quite well.

Beyond that, the stuff that made us all love being twi was what WE brought to the table.

So, unless WE left that stuff in the organization when WE left the organization, I'd say that there isn't anything to salvage.

I think most of us are doing quite well NOW with what we thought we were getting in twi: friendship, fellowship, camaraderie, intellectual and spiritual stimulation, a place to hang out, people to listen to and to listen to us, laughter, tears, prayers, victories, losses, all the stuff of life.

I mean, who needs some stupid organization designed to suck money from people? Those who do need such an organization will not bring anything to the table except what was on the table to begin with: usery at an cost.

IMO.

One of my "things to do in life" was to go to Sturgis for Bike Week...until about 2 years ago when I went to Sturgis to move a friend back to Kansas.

Although the town thrives on the money made from Bike Week, it's sad to see such historic land be used in such a way.

I was there for less than 24 hours, but I still heard the voices of the ancestors calling in the winds and falling with the snow.

Very, very sacred land up there...

You can't see it at all? That link pops us a web page. Does it pop up a web page for you?

Have you tried right clicking on the link and selecting "open in new window"?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whew! That was a riot!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OMG...I gotta stop...can't stop...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whew. Good one. TY.

Will this work? Sorority Girls From Hell

How'd this thread get lost down on page 2? Dang!

Well if that don't beat all! I'll bet the majority of kids today would get this far better than anything else that could be said on the subject. LMAO!!!!

Got shivers looking at this thread. Mmmmm, these men! Mmmmm!

PS Make sure any fliers or other form of advertisements have coupons attached. People LOVE coupons...especially if they are for discounted services.

Domain name is key, imo. For example, if your domain name is getsteamed.com, well who is gonna know what you're talking about? Type that into a search engine and it's like 2 million hits. :blink: Or if it's hillsbrocleaning.com, well that's kinda obvious...people are going to find the coffee makers. Or if it's carpetcleaning.com, that's a bit better, but you will be doing your competition more good than yourself.

Maybe something like rochestercarpetsandfloors.com. Something to make it automatically the first thing your target market customers think of...and make it simple for them...don't ever make customers think...'cause the first thing they think of is what they've heard on TV or the radio or seen in the paper or on billboards.

Next most important, imo, is to get your site listed with your local websites that advertise for local businesses. Like on the Chamber of Commerce's site. Or your city's site. Or a local web directory site.

Next would be to pay the money to have your web address listed with your telephone directory listing...both white pages and yellow pages.

Next, blanket your city with fliers pointing people to your web site. This is a cheap, cheap, cheap way to advertise...and has repeatedly been proven to be the most effective form of advertisement for small businesses. Nothing fancy, mind you. People get turned off by brochure type of advertising. Also, put some money into refrigerator magnets. People use these more than any other piece of advertising. It literally puts your business in their minds 24/7...and makes your business the easiest to find when they need what you have to offer.

Now you're gonna have to be ready for the onslaught when it hits.

The very most successful web sites that customers come to every time are the sites that have the ability to communicate quickly with the business, see all prices, print off coupons, make/change/cancel appointments on site, and pay on site.

Your web site should not just be an advertisement. It should be a satellite office of your business...where the customer service and available actions are just as good if not better than dealing with you face-to-face.

Reaching the electronic customer must include this aspect in your web site. It's not difficult to do at all, and is so convenient for both you and your customer that many people who go this route often end up not needing to do much of anything else because the word of mouth moves so swiftly. So long as your site is always customer oriented and services are always available.

Post hours of availability just as if this were an actual storefront. Make sure your cell phones are set to retrieve your emails. Set your email forms so that customers must leave a contact phone number. Whatever you need to do to make sure your customers are always in touch with you during business hours, this will make your web site stand out like no other.

Also, if you can hook up with a local charity and offer services for an auction fund-raiser or something, that makes your business THE business to turn to.

And lots of other little marketing gimmicks that really cost next to nothing compared to typical advertising avenues. These little gimmicks also make you stand out from the big guys.