nandon

then again, there were a heck of a lot of things that weren't legal in Texas..

If it makes any difference, no I don't smoke. Anything.

I just tend to agree with this. I think a "war" indiscriminately held against such a broad spectrum of substances not to be very logical.

A logical approach would address the worst problems first.

I think the main difference between marijuana and alcolohol.. alcohol has more than a few lobbyests..

Agreed. good points.

I am in favor of regulation. Regulation has worked for alcohol when compared to prohibition, why wouldn't it work for MJ or steroids? Regulate it, only allow it to be used in certain places, by certain age groups (21 or 25 whatever) , tax it.

I have never heard a good argument for why its not regulated.

Bonds* hit is 752nd* and 753rd* Homeruns tonight to put him within 2 homers of the Babe. Hope no one minds the astericks. If they could do it to a true power hitter like Maris, I figure they can do it to Mr. Roids.

you mean hank not the babe...

http://blog.teamgearedup.com/2007/07/micha...inal-photo.html

my friend michael. he was always willing to share his stories with anyone. when he said "how are you?" he really wanted to know. I enjoyed talking to him about how he trained, his philosophies, his metality, and what it takes to be your best.

it was too soon mike, i miss you my brother

If we allowed performance enhancers, wouldn't breeding be the next step? Or some type of genetic manipulation?

yes.

however, even with "performance enhancers" being disallowed, breeding and genetic manipulation will be the next step. or some type of advantageous surgery.

the same kind of thing happens when you point out hitlers strong points to people.

if you say, Hitler was an amazing public speaker and he knew how to lead people. some people take offense to that, as if you were saying he was a great man.

Hey --- thanks for the informational response in return! I learned something today.

I didn't know they had a valid medical benefit, such as you described.

Since I've not really read up much on the subject -- I see I missed some aspects of it entirely.

And yes -- I tend to shy away from insulting folks, at least intentionally that is.

:)

it was a scary thing for me. Getting that dang, then using it. I had read how to do it, but it was still illegal. So, it was an unpleasant time for me, but it worked, and i've never had to use them again. Now i can do all the things i could before my back problems.

waysider-- i've never heard of that before. Kinda crazy what people will do to get better. In a way i respect it. Getting better is all about altering ourselves, giving something up, in order to receive something I guess.

Hey there Nandon. :)

Nawww -- I wasn't accusing anyone of anything, nor was I assuming anything about your knowledge on the subject either. Sorry if it came across that way. :( I guess what I did mean was this:

I equated steroids with a lack of *integrity*, because to me it is a pill that anyone can buy.

It doesn't represent the *honesty* (if you will) of many hours of working out,

and perfecting your sport/ skill/ or whatever.

In other words -- I see it as a *short-cut* to greatness.

An apt comparision (to me), would be fiddle contests. I've been in many.

I've won a few. I've taken second, third, (or NOTHING), in more than I've won.

The folks I lost to were generally classically trained violinists.

I've never had a lesson in my life. But I don't begrudge them the victories.

Although they paid for and received lessons --

it was still up to them to practice and perfect their training through hours of hard work.

It wasn't some pill that could be popped gaining them instant acclaim.

So while I agree with you whole-heartedly that training methods change over the years,

I'm hesitant to include the use of performance enhancing drugs as a part of that.

(Btw -- thanks for the trivia tidbit about weight-lifting --- I didn't know that!!)

For the record, I know little about baseball, but when major news stories (such as this one),

make the front page of local newspapers, I tend to get interested, and look into it a bit more.

I'm seeing one guy who has a record (earned by blood, sweat, and tears) about to be broken by:

someone with talent, yet taking drugs to enhance that talent.

To me --- that's not a different training method. It's a short-cut --- but that's just my imo.

The only sport I follow *religiously* is the Tour de France. Lance kicked butt 7 years in a row.

A cancer patient in 1996 to winner of the Tour de France seven consecutive times,

(from 1999 to 2005), wasn't accomplished by steroids. It was work and dedication.

So while you make a valid point that training methods change over the years ---

nothing (imo) beats sweating it out in one's particular venue of competition.

P.S. -- No one can compete against EVERYONE who does the same thing. I know the name Babe Ruth, but if asked about him I could only reply that he was a baseball player who seems kinda famous for what he accomplished. I don't know if he is dead or alive (these days).

P.P.S. -- speaking of *these days* -- that's a vebal *tic* of mine that I commonly insert in phrases spoken to folks physically present (regardless of the content of conversation), or in posts on various boards that I happen to frequent.

Being an older guy -- it's my (maybe NOT so subtle way) of saying things have changed,

since I was a youngster. ;)

(EFS)

David

When you take steroids they do not make you stronger unless you workout hard and eat enough calories to sustain the muscle and strength. Often times this means that a steroid user will end up spending more time in the gym. Which is why workout addicts like steroids. When they take steroids, their bodys can handle longer more intense workouts. These longer workouts and the recovery benefits of steroids combined with appropriate nutrition and ample sleep lead to a stronger athlete.

Steroids do not help your sports skills. They can actually hurt your skills because your body is getting stronger at an unusual pace. Athletes often times get muscle cramps or severe "pumps" in their muscles, because the muscle are developing at a faster rate and require more nutrition and more rest from the longer workouts.

Some Steroids are pills. But these are typically the weaker versions of steroids. Plus oral steroids are liver toxic so anyone who values thier health stays away from orals. Most steroids are taken by injection.

Steroids have many potential side effects. Side effects are genetic, meaning that some people have many sides, some people have none. Due to the side effect potential of steroids, anyone who values their health, gets their blood levels checked on a regular basis and changes the amounts of steroids that they are using based on their blood test results. Most people who have money, get blood levels checked every 2-3 months while on a cycle or at least at the begining, middle and end of the cycle, to ensure that they are using a "safe" or proper amount for them.

A savy steroid user not only knows the side effects, he also knows that other drugs can offset the negative sides of steroids. A smart user will purchase an anti-estrogen drug, and an HPTA stimulator for every cycle. These drugs are very common for steroid users, not all NEED them, but it is a good idea to have them so that the user can recover from the cycle. there are many other "anti-side" effect drugs out there. There are some for those who have a history of male pattern baldness, or high cholesterol. These are the two major negative side effects that users worry about. Anti-estrogen drugs are: nolvadex, or clomid, The HPTA drug is HCG, male patter baldness drugs are any of the anti-balding drugs currently on the market (they block dht in the scalp). The high cholesteral drugs are the same ones you see on TV or get from your doctor.

Steroid cylces are very complicated, injections are tedious and dangerous unless you know how to inject properly, and can be unsanitary if you don't know the correct cleansing processes.

What I am trying to say, is that someone who does steroids is not taking a shortcut. They are actually doing more work. They get more results, yes. But they are earning it. More work in the weight room, more discipline in thier diet, more work on their skills to keep coordination.

This is my opinion based on first hand experiance. I used steroids for 6 weeks to help me recover from a back injury. I had tried all other avenues, therapy, rest, rehab. Nothing worked. So i began researching. I don't know how I got the idea that steroids would help my back. After many months of research I decided it was my last resort. I used them for 6 weeks along with my usual rehab exercises, and my back is still feeling great (2 years later).

I am an avid basketball player. I played in HS and college. I didn't use the steroids in college, I injured my back in college (which ended my career) but I didn't take steroids till 5 years later. BUT---when i was on steroids, It did not help me on the basketball court. I was a bit stronger in the weight room, i put on a few lbs of muscle, but to my surprise they didn't help me on the court. I couldnt' shoot or dribble as well, I couldn't move as well, it was wierd.. I also got those back pumps, which hurt like hell. (back pumps are when the erector spinae muscle cramp up).

I think steroids have a place in society and sports. I do not consider them a shortcut. I do not think they should be over the counter drugs. I think doctors should be able to prescibe them to people for any reason, so that people can use them safely. I think they should be taxed and the money should be used for schools.

Having said all that, I understand your point. I hope my point is clear to you as well. I also want to say that there is a difference between use and abuse of steroids or any drug (alcohol, pot, etc...). Abuse leads to many health problems. But with proper knowledge of steroids, diet, and working out steroids are a very safe drug. (notice the use of the word "drug", im not saying they are "safe" in general, but in the context of drugs, they are safe if not abused.

I am not pro-steroids in sports though. If these guys didn't do steroids, i wouldn't care. I just know that these guys are trying to do anything to get better: diet, exercise, practice, meditation, prayer/superstition. I guess its only natural for the competative athlete to gravitate to drug usage to improve themself. I wonder how long before surgery is able to improve an athletes performance, or genetic modification. I wonder if I will be saying the same things about "performance enhancing surgery" or "perfromanc enhacing gentic alteration" that you are saying about steroids when those issues come up.

Who knows. Take care and thanks for your opinions and for making it clear that you weren't insulting me.

uniforms are idiotic.

a combination of looking your best and functionality are the most important things.

good luck in your struggle (i know its not life or death, but i get where you are coming from).

Nandon -- yes it does matter.

It's a little thing called INTEGRITY.

That's a word you'd have a hard time looking up the definition of,

in today's Funk and Wagnalls, given the actions of folks (these days).

I disagree. It doesn't matter. I think steroids, have a place in sports and society. That is only my opinion. Our opinions differ, which is a good thing.

Are you suggesting that I have no integrity or that I don't know what integrity means?

and by 'these days' do you mean to say that in 'other days' people had more integrity? In my view various people from all time periods have had a lack of integrity while others have been full of integrity.

Training methods change over time. They evolve to better the athletes performance.

Did you know that in the 1950's that it was illegal for a MLB player to lift weights? If he was caught, he would be fined? They thought that lifting weights was bad for the players health (it would make the player stiff and muscle bound). Science and practice have found the opposite to be true.

Who has more integrity, a racist society, or one that uses steroids? (just a comparison to the 'other days')

Did you know that Babe Ruth did not play against all the best players of his day? He only played against white players. No blacks, no minorities. Now days players from all across the world are in the MLB. Interesting to think about this. Would you rather go back to a racist society and a segregated MLB or would you rather have to deal with the steroid scandal of today?

not that im going to convince you of anything. you are a smart man who will make a rational decision, but I just thought I'd share a couple reasons why I made that statement, which I should have done in the first place.

Here ya go Captain Spiritual...this one's for you

Barry Bonds, who was a good hitter (hitting about 35 homers a year) suddenly showed up one year looking like the incredible hulk and smashed 75 homers in one season...Babe Ruth's best year was 60...

So what do you all think?...steroids or "Mr. Natural"???

does it matter?

John,

Thanks for your website. It helped me. I think i got out of TWI in 2002, and your website helped me make a rational choice.

My life is better now, and you played a part in that.

Many people here are thankfull for your site.

Dr. Dre 2001 instramental only

that whole album is nice, gives a whole new perspective on what rap is all about.

might work for some people.

nothing wrong with it.

was that a moonwalk?

AWESOME song!

Did you know that Red Rider's vocalist was Tom Cochrane - the same who sang the hit "Life Is A Highway"

One of my favorite albums - one that every cut is GOOD - is "Brand New Day" by Sting. Excellent stuff.

I bet you're probably into The Cure and Kate Bush, if you like Gabriel and Sting. How about Siouxsie and the Banshees?

cool fact.

i love the fact that this song rings so true for our current political situation.

Lunatic Fringe

by Red Rider

(for 2-4 the road) "Am I wrong" and "Henery" by Keb mo

Laughed their @$$es off...

My question to you was a serious one - would a donation to charity make a difference in this case??

Not really. I think they should suspend his license and parked the car if he has to do jail time. But still make him pay for it.

I'm not the expert i was just giving my opinion.

Thinking twice about it, they should have treated it like the would have treated the piece of crap civic.

Lady Don't Tek No

by Latyrx

What *if* the police auctioned the car and gave the money to a homeless shelter? Would that be better for you?

What if the car wasn't a viper. what if it was a trashy looking suped up honda civic with a turbo charger that was ugly. what would the police done in that case?

nothing.

No. He deserves to have his license suspended. This is theft, and this is ungodly. These laws were put into effect originally to take away property that people bought with illegal gains. This is a total abuse of the law.

We are ALL in danger. If you don't think this can happen to you, think again. It can.

I agree. The government has gone too far.

This criminal should have had his car parked, and he should have still been held responsible for the payments. He should do jail time and get his license suspended (or whatever the legal penalty is).

If he couldn't make payments, the bank should have taken legal action, like they would with anyone who can't make the payment . IMO just taking the car away and paying it off for him, then using it as a "police DARE show car" is letting this guy off easy.

IT was his car, he should have to pay for it, or declare bankrupcy or whatever.

Speeding is wrong, and so is stealing. And so is using tax money to pay-off that car.

Lean Like a Choloby Down

good luck with the class, maybe you'l learn something and have fun.

worst law idea ever. i am 100% against it.